Why balance everything? Please help me understand. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Karia Mirniman

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

20 Jun 2007 at 08:43 - 1

Having played for a while and seen numerous skill balances take place, I find I have lost the plot on why the game producer has to keep changing things.

e.g. I’m a ranger and use Mark of Rodgort. It’s been ok all this time. Why change it!

I’m not being funny here. I really don’t understand why every few days skills that have been perfectly ok for ages have to be changed.

Is it a case that someone is fiddling with the game because they can and not because they need to.

Again in guild I hear people angered by this anarchistic approach to a game. You don’t change the size of tennis balls every few weeks because someone hits it harder than the next player.

Any clue as to why this takes place would help me keep my guild members from defecting to wow.

Karia

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

20 Jun 2007 at 08:55 - 2

There's this thing called PvP that 80% of the GW populus hasn't heard of. Shame eh?

TiNkLeR

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Portugal

20 Jun 2007 at 08:58 - 3

Player Versus Player...

Get it?

It's needed.

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

20 Jun 2007 at 09:01 - 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

There's this thing called PvP that 80% of the GW populus hasn't heard of. Shame eh?

shame that they nerf pve based on the habits of the minority in a metagame? definitely

GodofAcid

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Massachusetts, USA

E/

20 Jun 2007 at 09:22 - 5

It's called poor planning. PvE and PvP are 2 different animals, yet they use the same skills. When you change skills for the sake of one side, it messes them up on the other. I just hope they learn from this for GW2. This certainly doesn't work.

Karia Mirniman

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

20 Jun 2007 at 09:36 - 6

Sorry. My question didn’t explain things properly. I know the changes are to keep the PvP group happy. What I meant was why is this going on all the time. These are not new skills.

I don’t think there are any other competitive games where this sort of thing happens. Footballs are round and x big and the pitch is so big and it stays that way. Skill is what makes the team win – not making football boots bigger or smaller.

Is it like some sort of happy liberal state where everyone has to be as able to win and if you excel your going to get cut down?

Ecklipze

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

R/

20 Jun 2007 at 09:37 - 7

WTB Thread without PvP and PvE bashing flames.

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

20 Jun 2007 at 09:42 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karia Mirniman

Sorry. My question didn’t explain things properly. I know the changes are to keep the PvP group happy. What I meant was why is this going on all the time. These are not new skills.

I don’t think there are any other competitive games where this sort of thing happens. Footballs are round and x big and the pitch is so big and it stays that way. Skill is what makes the team win – not making football boots bigger or smaller.

Is it like some sort of happy liberal state where everyone has to be as able to win and if you excel your going to get cut down?

because when they nerf one popular skill, pvp people find another skill to abuse, so they feel that skill needs nerfed too.

and Ecklipze, no one has bashed or flamed anything in this thread so far. Just simply stating that PvP and PvE need to be separated, without any inflamatory dialog.

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

20 Jun 2007 at 10:03 - 9

1 PvP imbalance requires it
2 farm nerfs to annoy botting persons
3 It needs being a challenge in PvE

PvE being the least important, but even there i think its good the balances are introduced, no challenge means u are gonna loose interest, or u don't learn anything to improve. It would mean that any stupid build could end the game. Maybe it can?

I would suggest PvE and PvP should come closer together, with PvE mobs being present in balanced groups (there was a nice ironic thread about it, but I can't find it anymore.)

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

20 Jun 2007 at 10:06 - 10

Because if they don't balance it, youll run rampant.
Change your build if the nerf was that bad and move on. The game will feel fresher in new shoes.

-Loki-

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

20 Jun 2007 at 10:09 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karia Mirniman

Sorry. My question didn’t explain things properly. I know the changes are to keep the PvP group happy. What I meant was why is this going on all the time. These are not new skills.

I don’t think there are any other competitive games where this sort of thing happens. Footballs are round and x big and the pitch is so big and it stays that way. Skill is what makes the team win – not making football boots bigger or smaller.

Is it like some sort of happy liberal state where everyone has to be as able to win and if you excel your going to get cut down?

Changing a skill can have adverse affects on other skills. However, in football, if a rule is changed, the football doesn't magically grow spikes and gain 3kg of weight.

Surena

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

N/Me

20 Jun 2007 at 10:12 - 12

PvE needs balance too to maintain a certain challenge level. Give people an instawipe skill and they'll kiss your ass. Once they notice the lack of challenge though they'll post on guru and cry rivers that there wouldn't be anything to do anymore and everything would be so easy. People are hard to please.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

20 Jun 2007 at 10:28 - 13

Because constantly balancing everything for an e-sport is serious business!

It's also apparently ridiculously difficult, which is why there are so many, most of which happen within a day or two of new skill/attribute/class releases. This is also why anything new can cause ripple effects among older mechanics, such as Soul Reaping and the Rit Spirits. Because we, the players, are pretty much the beta testers now, look for lots of frequent balancing like we've seen recently. It seems that all balances are simply sketched out on paper, coded into the game, possibly seeing "light" testing, and then slapped into the live build for all of us to figure out what's broken.

I'd love to see a medical doctor, auto mechanic, or computer tech operate like this...

"So we set your leg fracture, and slapped on a cast. Never really done that before, but it looked good on paper, so just let us know how it goes, will ya? Maybe try jumping around a little - really see if you can break it."

"There was some knocking sounds coming from your radiator, figured we'd try and tighten the cap, and added some more water. Go ahead and drive into the middle of a hot desert and see if it blows."

"Yeah there were some viruses, real nasty ones, too. I deleted something that didn't look right in the Windows folder. Should be okay to do your online banking on it, now, I guess. Let us know if anyone steals your identity or anything."

Like I said - serious business.

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

20 Jun 2007 at 10:30 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

1 PvP imbalance requires it
2 farm nerfs to annoy botting persons
3 It needs being a challenge in PvE

1. yes... for pvp ( though a lot of the supposed imbalances are just cases of people refusing to bring counters O.O )
2. eh until they topple the king, 55, I see most so called farming nerfs as just spiteful things that really have no place... they need to fix the issue of farming itself (increase drops for everyone and institute full loot scale system so you get the same drops whether yer solo or in group of 8 henchmen) instead of just nerfing skills based around botting.
3. challenge can be self imposed in pve... take a pug into gate of pain with no heroes but dunkoro, and that's a challenge fer sher without nerfing anything. the more you nerf, the more it just becomes all hero play without challenge...

xDusT II

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Melbourne

20 Jun 2007 at 10:30 - 15

PvP takes priority over PvE because in PvP, you have tournaments and cash on the line, meaning the need for balance is crucial to keep people playing proffesionally.
PvE has a more "casual" atmosphere. I can agree that constant changes to skills can be annoying however it's not too difficult to adjust to changes.

Hopefully in GW2, PvP and PvE will be seperated so that some skills will function differently in each gameset. For the meantime we have the pvE skills which are designed to fix this problem, however these skills have recently been subject to "balancing" as well.

the_jos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Hard Mode Legion [HML]

N/

20 Jun 2007 at 10:37 - 16

Quote:

e.g. I’m a ranger and use Mark of Rodgort. It’s been ok all this time. Why change it!
I’m not being funny here. I really don’t understand why every few days skills that have been perfectly ok for ages have to be changed.

I do understand your feeling, but a skill seeming ok for you might not be ok for others.
Also, changes to one skill affect others.
Since this is a (AoE) hex spell, I think it was changed because of hex-teams in PvP. Same reason they buffed the Hex Removers in this update.
Other recent changes have similar reasons.

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

20 Jun 2007 at 10:42 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by xDusT II

PvP takes priority over PvE because in PvP, you have tournaments and cash on the line, meaning the need for balance is crucial to keep people playing proffesionally.
PvE has a more "casual" atmosphere. I can agree that constant changes to skills can be annoying however it's not too difficult to adjust to changes.

Hopefully in GW2, PvP and PvE will be seperated so that some skills will function differently in each gameset. For the meantime we have the pvE skills which are designed to fix this problem, however these skills have recently been subject to "balancing" as well.

ya I wish they'd just stop with the tournaments and stuff. this was supposed to be a fun online RPG, not a professional sport. the occasional tournament under monitored conditions was fine. but this ATS and resulting balance madness is just plain stupid, in this gamer's opinion.

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

20 Jun 2007 at 10:45 - 18

Everything still works in PvE, so why cry?

glountz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/Mo

20 Jun 2007 at 10:49 - 19

I really don't think the recent SF/MoR was aimed at PvP only.
Balance is needed in PVE only.
Not between players and monsters, but between player class.
When some builds become so prominent and powerful that PVE challenge is reduced to nothing, when some classes outclass completely others, then it's time to do something.
For example, the pre-nerf MM. Remembering it, when Verata was so powerful and no minion limit, it was insane. Other players were only doing figuration compared to the MM and its army.

Dev121

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

20 Jun 2007 at 10:52 - 20

Anet are going the right way of ruining everything , alot of builds get ruined every week now and they dont care about the pve side. I laid of them awhile back after they seemed to change some things back and re-considered some of the their updates but this is stupid.

Question:
Fire Eles are meant to deal HIGH DAMAGE AOE DAMAGE YES? So why nerf every skill , why should a SS necro do more damage than whats supposued to be the main damage dealer in the game? The new sunspear skills for eles are crap aswell , +1 is useless and not even worth carrying . All I see if anet just sucking up to the pvpers once more , its like if a pvp guild said oh we dont like eles remove them , anet would probably consider it , its getting too much now.

Searing Flames did not need to be reduced in damage , its a good skill for eles but I can see it getting further nerfed in the future , why because its overpowered in PvP? Not true , I dont pvp at all , I think its boring and not worth the effort but thats just me , my game shouldnt be reducded in enjoyment because somerone who plays a game thats nearly completley different wants it their way. Pack it in A-Net , in a few days theyll probably release another press release saying how they cant please everyone , well why is it always the pvpers they please. Then they will say well weve added 10 new skills , which arent anything unique or special , just a lame rip off to show that they are doing some , which it probably took 1 guy to make .

`Thanks Alot .

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

20 Jun 2007 at 10:54 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

I really don't think the recent SF/MoR was aimed at PvP only.
Balance is needed in PVE only.
Not between players and monsters, but between player class.
When some builds become so prominent and powerful that PVE challenge is reduced to nothing, when some classes outclass completely others, then it's time to do something.
For example, the pre-nerf MM. Remembering it, when Verata was so powerful and no minion limit, it was insane. Other players were only doing figuration compared to the MM and its army.

Ahh, but remember, the MM nerf came shortly after the Factions PvP event, where we got our first tastes of AB - and the MMs annhiliating everyone. Many consider AB not-so-PvP now, but it was very much a PvP thing then. Likewise, SF has seen (and AFAIK still sees) quite a bit of play in HA and RA.

I can't think of a single skill/attribute/class that has been balanced purely or even mainly because of PvE. Even half, or partly. It's always said after the nerf "oh yeah, it was overpowered in PvE, too!" as pure hindsight bias. Skill balances are 99-100% entirely because of PvP.

Servant of Kali

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

Me/

20 Jun 2007 at 10:56 - 22

Seriously, SO MANY SKILLS WORK IN PvE, why do people have a need to argue over skill balances??

PvE is as easy as can be, 13yr old people can finish it without a problem. Are you seriously complained about Mark of Rodgort being nerfed?

I was able to finish Nightfall more or less with STARTER armor. You can't possibly tell me that nerfing Mark of Rodgort is a reason for concern, when you have your PvE only skills and i don't care how much they are overpowered.

I play both PvE and PvP, and NEVER complained about nerfs. Why? Because i understand what "balance" means. I understand that using the same overpowered skills isn't fun. Not for me. I used to fight against Mursaat in Southern Shiverpeaks (Inquisitor etc) with non-infused group of like 6 people. We still beat it. Did i complain when Shelter/Union/Displacement got nerfed? No. Why not? Because it was too strong. Etc etc.

PvE still has an insane number of overpowered skills; SS would be overpowered even with 25 energy, Empathy is overpowered in PvE too, MM is overpowered, etc. It really isn't that hard to use overpowered skills in PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karia Mirniman

You don’t change the size of tennis balls every few weeks because someone hits it harder than the next player.

Your analogy is invalid.

A valid analogy would be: If someone uses a tennis racket, and someone else a baseball bat, for tennis you would need to nerf tennis racket or buff baseball bat, or do both a bit. Why? Because you can be very experienced tennis player, yet still you wont be able to play well with a freakin baseball bat.

TabascoSauce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Virginia, US

TFgt

W/Me

20 Jun 2007 at 11:00 - 23

There was an interesting discussion about this before, and the consensus was that this rollercoaster of skill nerfs is ANet's creation and they do not know how to stop it.

The community will always find the next FotM, and when ANet "discovers" it they nerf it to prevent abuse, right? What they seem to miss is that the community is therefore put in the position that they need not find counter-builds, because in a month or less those "abused" skills will be nerfed.

They are destroying their own meta-game by that process. Instead of players asking themselves "how do I beat skillset x,y, and z?" they are saying "lets use x, y and z too before ANet nerfs them!"

By stopping the "mass extinction" nerfs, the metagame would be forced to evolve counter-builds and find a balance point of rock-paper-scissors. As it is now, ANet is disincentivizing evolution by regular and predictable skill "extinction".

Food for thought.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Free Wind

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

Moscow

W/

20 Jun 2007 at 11:05 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karia Mirniman

I’m a ranger and use Mark of Rodgort. It’s been ok all this time. Why change it!

You say that now, when this skill got nerfed, I wish you'd seen it before when it got buffed a while ago.. no one used to use it before it got buffed with Nightfall release
Now it's on every second SF ele bar

As for the skill itself, it was a bit overpowered in PvP being an excellent cover hex that could be reapplied right after you remove it

ZenRgy

Zookeeper

Join Date: Jul 2005

Australian Discussion Posse HQ - Glorious leader

҉ ̵̡̢̢̛̛̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟&#

N/E

20 Jun 2007 at 11:37 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeVaNeY121

its like if a pvp guild said oh we dont like eles remove them , anet would probably consider it , its getting too much now.

Because absolutely nobody has been complaining about necro hexes.

Mouse at Large

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Scotland

Fuzzy Physics Institute

E/

20 Jun 2007 at 11:41 - 26

Here's an idea for future "balancing" and encouraging greater build diversity

Rather than taking good skills that players want on their bars and making them worse........

Why not try taking bad skills that nobody wants on their bars and make them better????

Radical huh????

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

20 Jun 2007 at 11:44 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

Just simply stating that PvP and PvE need to be separated, without any inflamatory dialog.

I see this get thrown around a lot. By all means, tell us exactly how you would implement this.

GodofAcid

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Massachusetts, USA

E/

20 Jun 2007 at 11:45 - 28

What novel thinking! In fact, I was just talking to my guild about that same idea a couple weeks ago, while going over the majority of skills in this game that nobody ever uses. Instead of introducing new skills, they could improve or eliminate some of the ones nobody uses first.

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

20 Jun 2007 at 11:51 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

I see this get thrown around a lot. By all means, tell us exactly how you would implement this.

same way other games do. have skills have one description in all pve outposts and another in the battle isles. its a little bit of work but worth it to keep everyone happy.

or how about this if you want less work: when a skill is deemed overpowered in PvP, just lock it in PvP instead of nerfing it. no one will be using it after its nerfed into uselessness anyway, so just put a PvE-only tag on it instead.

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

20 Jun 2007 at 11:53 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

same way other games do. have skills have one description in all pve outposts and another in the battle isles. its a little bit of work but worth it to keep everyone happy.

This would keep the PvE-only people and the PvP-only people happy, yes.

But what about the people who play both? Do you know how much of a nightmare it would be to have two separate skill descriptions for every single skill?

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

20 Jun 2007 at 11:56 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

There was an interesting discussion about this before, and the consensus was that this rollercoaster of skill nerfs is ANet's creation and they do not know how to stop it.

The community will always find the next FotM, and when ANet "discovers" it they nerf it to prevent abuse, right? What they seem to miss is that the community is therefore put in the position that they need not find counter-builds, because in a month or less those "abused" skills will be nerfed.

They are destroying their own meta-game by that process. Instead of players asking themselves "how do I beat skillset x,y, and z?" they are saying "lets use x, y and z too before ANet nerfs them!"

By stopping the "mass extinction" nerfs, the metagame would be forced to evolve counter-builds and find a balance point of rock-paper-scissors. As it is now, ANet is disincentivizing evolution by regular and predictable skill "extinction".

Food for thought.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Um....but what about all the PvPers who constantly demand that skills be changed because of stale meta?

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

20 Jun 2007 at 11:57 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse at Large

Here's an idea for future "balancing" and encouraging greater build diversity

Rather than taking good skills that players want on their bars and making them worse........

Why not try taking bad skills that nobody wants on their bars and make them better????

Radical huh????

I hear you, and that gets suggested a lot...but the reason you can't just buff all the bad skills is because when it comes to PvE, say, Monsters will benefit from those buffs also, including bosses. Bosses in Factions and Nightfall deal double damage...so if you buffes all the "bad" skills, without allowing players to increase their base Armor Level bosses in Factions and Nightfall could be devastating and become harder and harder to beat.

There will be other reasons, I'm sure, but "buffing all the bad skills" isn't the best plan in the end.

Retribution X

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Check behind you again.

N/

20 Jun 2007 at 11:58 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

This would keep the PvE-only people and the PvP-only people happy, yes.

But what about the people who play both? Do you know how much of a nightmare it would be to have two separate skill descriptions for every single skill?

I'd scream, cry, and quit one playing PvE or PvP.

It would be damn annoying.

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

20 Jun 2007 at 12:00 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

This would keep the PvE-only people and the PvP-only people happy, yes.

But what about the people who play both? Do you know how much of a nightmare it would be to have two separate skill descriptions for every single skill?

it would mostly just be the same skills with smaller numbers, I'd imagine...

Chris Blackstar

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

United States

20 Jun 2007 at 12:00 - 35

If you want Balance in PvP, you do not need to Balance skills, what you need to to add new elements and objectives. In HA on some maps have HM mobs that hit for 200+ damage attacking everyone, while playing a version of capture the flag. In GvG have if a team is able to steal the guild flag then, mobs of NPC's attack their base to get it back, all enhanced with HM attrubutes asnd full skill bars.

Retribution X

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Check behind you again.

N/

20 Jun 2007 at 12:05 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Blackstar

If you want Balance in PvP, you do not need to Balance skills, what you need to to add new elements and objectives. In HA on some maps have HM mobs that hit for 200+ damage attacking everyone, while playing a version of capture the flag. In GvG have if a team is able to steal the guild flag then, mobs of NPC's attack their base to get it back, all enhanced with HM attrubutes asnd full skill bars.

Ok. no. I'm playing PvP. why the hell would I want HM mobs to attack me? I would go play HM if I wanted that.

Don't make PvP like PvE. there's already an arena for that. Alliance Battles.

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

20 Jun 2007 at 12:06 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

it would mostly just be the same skills with smaller numbers, I'd imagine...

At first, perhaps (even that would be rather annoying, though). What if as time goes on, however, the devs reason "well they're already separated, maybe we can change their actual functionality too?"

As a terrible example, say Glowing Gaze gives energy back while burning in PvE, but in PvP they change it to add extra burning time to an already burning foe, or something like that.

Yes, slippery slope and all that, but honestly you don't seem to be a very big PvP player--I don't think you quite understand the implications of what you're suggesting.

Mouse at Large

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Scotland

Fuzzy Physics Institute

E/

20 Jun 2007 at 12:11 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

I hear you, and that gets suggested a lot...but the reason you can't just buff all the bad skills is because when it comes to PvE, say, Monsters will benefit from those buffs also, including bosses. Bosses in Factions and Nightfall deal double damage...so if you buffes all the "bad" skills, without allowing players to increase their base Armor Level bosses in Factions and Nightfall could be devastating and become harder and harder to beat.

There will be other reasons, I'm sure, but "buffing all the bad skills" isn't the best plan in the end.

Hmmmm.....

In my experience, most PvE players tend to have a "core" skillbar (or maybe 2 or 3) that they use for 90% of the areas. This will consist of 5 or 6 skills and 2 or 3 which will be swapped out and in depending on specific mobs/areas. I'm not particulary worried about mobs getting the occasional better spell, as long as I have good (un-nerfed) basic skills and a reasonable choice of primary and secondary skills I can utilise for specific tasks.

At the moment, I think there is too much of a "cookie-cutter" syndrome. Why? Because a few skills and combos are head and shoulders above the rest

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

20 Jun 2007 at 12:13 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

At first, perhaps (even that would be rather annoying, though). What if as time goes on, however, the devs reason "well they're already separated, maybe we can change their actual functionality too?"

As a terrible example, say Glowing Gaze gives energy back while burning in PvE, but in PvP they change it to add extra burning time to an already burning foe, or something like that.

Yes, slippery slope and all that, but honestly you don't seem to be a very big PvP player--I don't think you quite understand the implications of what you're suggesting.

I actually do both. I prefer PvE, but mostly because of how other people behave in PvP... And I don't see that big of a deal in learning two functions for each skill... hey, its just like effectively doubling the amount of skills available in the game, except you only have to unlock half of em to have em all. half PvE only, half PvP only. might take a bit to get used to, but its for the better, and can put an end to needlessly nerfing one thing to fix something else entirely (like making many paragon skills stop affecting allies because pvp people were using them on spirits... that was just a horrible reason for a game-wide nerf)

but then, there is always the other suggestion I made. if a skill is too powerful for PvP, don't nerf it, just make it PvE only. No one would use it in PvP after nerf anyway since "balance" is actually a pendulum...

anshin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

R/

20 Jun 2007 at 12:17 - 40

the only thing radical about the skill balances that could ever happen is... not to happen at all...

every other aspect is already covered by our imagination... everyone has an idea of doing some skill balances in the future so that in the farthest future there won't be this many skill balances... although... if skill balances simply stopped, everyone would ask for a freakin balance, with that, anet would balance and some other people would still be unhappy...

so... to answer to first post... there are alot of skill balances because people are morons and don't allow themselves to be satisfied with something that works even if minimaly...