Damage on Searing Flames just went down 10%.
In limited efforts, I wasn't succeeding much in hard mode with a standard 3 x SF/MM primary/heroes group build of the sort that rocks in normal mode. Too squishy, and not killing the enemies fast enough.
Now I don't think I'll even try to make it work. Time to find something else altogether.
Searing Flames nerf
Francis Crawford
Mouse at Large
Sadly yes 
This could be Anet's way of trying to force eles to run the now generaly useless PvE skills.
On second thoughts, and given their track record on the buff/nerf swings, I'm maybe giving them credit for strategic planning they don't deserve.....
This could be Anet's way of trying to force eles to run the now generaly useless PvE skills.
On second thoughts, and given their track record on the buff/nerf swings, I'm maybe giving them credit for strategic planning they don't deserve.....
frojack
I'm so happy this has happened. SF is incredibly dull to play. At least now it will force people to be more creative and allow more creative people into brain-dead pugs... If your into that...
LifeInfusion
10% isn't much. If anything they fail to balance it since they shouldv'e made the duration of the burnign longer so you don't need 2-3 SFers just to keep the burn on (unless you carry Mark of rodgort).
Pale-Dim
The last 3 nerfs have pretty much made sf builds useless. now we lost 10% damage. so not even elemental lord will bring us close (only adds 6dmg per lvl) and the nerf to intensity to 10 seconds only covers 3 sf casts. even at 15 seconds i found it pretty much useless as another skill was more useful.
I think its dear time A-net gets off there rears and seperates the pvp/pve skills so that we can pound monsters better since monsters are geared with having a lot more life then players do.
everyone says pvp and pve are completely different so why do they have to share the same stat skills. more monsters with more life and faster casting and running in hard mode make it hard for us to kill with weakened skills.
what is the alternative mass damage pve to sf? it sure aint air spike and im not sure earth based has enough gun to do it
I think its dear time A-net gets off there rears and seperates the pvp/pve skills so that we can pound monsters better since monsters are geared with having a lot more life then players do.
everyone says pvp and pve are completely different so why do they have to share the same stat skills. more monsters with more life and faster casting and running in hard mode make it hard for us to kill with weakened skills.
what is the alternative mass damage pve to sf? it sure aint air spike and im not sure earth based has enough gun to do it
wolfren
frojack ur completly right i have just h8ed sf since it's realease hence why i deleted my ele to save me from cookie-cutter rubbish.
Francis Crawford
Except just long enough to figure out how it works, I've never renewal nuked and probably never will. The lack of time between targeting and effect makes it totally mindless. If I want to be totally mindless, I'll just farm.
This repeated nerfing of SF is quite disappointing. Elementalists had at least ONE kick-butt skillbar, and now we don't any more.
This repeated nerfing of SF is quite disappointing. Elementalists had at least ONE kick-butt skillbar, and now we don't any more.
Evilsod
I love how much hate Searing Flames gets... People whining its too cookie cutter, saying they 'deleted there ele to avoid it'. Whatever. People say its the end of the SF ele. People thinking it means pugs will take something else...
Seriously, get real. This SF nerf means it takes *slightly* longer to kill everything. If you don't want to run it so be it. Nothing has changed since yesterday.
Seriously, get real. This SF nerf means it takes *slightly* longer to kill everything. If you don't want to run it so be it. Nothing has changed since yesterday.
LifeInfusion
Evilsod is right. The 10% less damage just means it takes a few more casts to kill things.
Francis Crawford
Given that I haven't figured out at all how to run SF successfully in hard mode, 10% damage reduction is a bunch.
Yeah, I know it's not the only life loss caused by the build, but it's probably over 5% of the life loss caused by three of the not a lot more than three pure damage dealers of the team.
Nerfed Intensity PLUS a hypothetical 9th skillbar slot to run it approximately balances this. This plus real-world Intensity is a net loss. And that's only for my primary. For my heroes, it's a total net loss.
Yeah, I know it's not the only life loss caused by the build, but it's probably over 5% of the life loss caused by three of the not a lot more than three pure damage dealers of the team.
Nerfed Intensity PLUS a hypothetical 9th skillbar slot to run it approximately balances this. This plus real-world Intensity is a net loss. And that's only for my primary. For my heroes, it's a total net loss.
Pale-Dim
your right evilsod. even with the last 3 nerfs against this build it is STILL the best pve elementalist build out there. it sad that they cant buff the other skills to make them more useable instead of killing our best source of damage. even in its current form its still one of the best mob killers around and until we see better skills for other elements it will continue to be the most useful build.
Thom Bangalter
a neccessary nerf, the skill was waaaaaaaaay too good in pvp at just spamming on a target.
The problem is that they randomly butchered the pretty decent pve skills, instead of buffed, which they needed to do (what's the point in making pve skills worse than pvp skills??)
The problem is that they randomly butchered the pretty decent pve skills, instead of buffed, which they needed to do (what's the point in making pve skills worse than pvp skills??)
xDusT II
I do hope that everyone is aware that Searing Flames builds are still viable and infact they are still the most damaging builds in the fire elementalist repetoire.
The nerf was called for. I think it was nerfed appropriately.
The nerf was called for. I think it was nerfed appropriately.
GeniusLoci
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Crawford
This repeated nerfing of SF is quite disappointing. Elementalists had at least ONE kick-butt skillbar, and now we don't any more.
Have you ever used:
Searing Heat
Rodgort's Invocation
Incendiary Bonds
Immolate
Meteor Shower
Maelstrom
on one skill bar? Oh, I know they suck balls, compared to SF. But they needed some skill and timing to play (for star just look at the costs
). Quote:
|
Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
10% isn't much. If anything they fail to balance it since they shouldv'e made the duration of the burnign longer so you don't need 2-3 SFers just to keep the burn on (unless you carry Mark of rodgort).
 Just confess you are tired of clicking more than one skill and so you want SF to do everything. IMO the nerf is well called and it should lore burning as well. GeniusLoci
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Crawford
This repeated nerfing of SF is quite disappointing. Elementalists had at least ONE kick-butt skillbar, and now we don't any more. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
10% isn't much. If anything they fail to balance it since they shouldv'e made the duration of the burnign longer so you don't need 2-3 SFers just to keep the burn on (unless you carry Mark of rodgort).
Just confess you are tired of clicking more than one skill and so you want SF to do everything. IMO the nerf is good and it should lower the burning part as well.
Thom Bangalter
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeniusLoci
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by GeniusLoci
IMO the nerf is good and it should lower the burning part as well.
um...I can't even begin to fathom why. You're bad? o ok.
GeniusLoci
I wrote why - because it outdamages even the skills which cannot be used as tech, thus making them useless.
As for the point about other classes skills - afaik frenzy was never so good and in PvE is not even skill to choose unless you hate your monks or you think you can see any damage before it comes. Sure there are skills which just stand out, bot most of them are used With other skills. While SF is spammable so it doesn't need much more. What if you had to make your target burn to recieve the spike damage part with other Spell? Would it be hard to make it or it is just that DPS will go 20-30% down due to downtime? Ele will still see do more daage than anyone. pingu666
well with the current burn time, without wand/offhand bonus'es, only actully hit 1 damage spike
so its 1 cast of sf to burn glowing glaze sf cast to spike liquid flame sf to burn sf to spike kazjun
I think he means frenzy in pvp, where it's hands down about the best IAS buff around. In pve, you'd probably only use frenzy on a bow or with a spear. Where it's actually real good, as long as you're not sitting in touch range of your warriors.
As for SF, I reckon it's a poor nerf. Let's face it, it's no threat alone, it's only when used in numbers that it's scary. With 3 SFer's (which you get from any guild team or heroway), the nerf makes pretty much no difference at all. It's only the single ele looking to pug that get's hurt. Pity that.
Yanman.be
Oh noes! A skill doesn't work so good anymore as it used to be! What s hall we do now?!? We're totally desperate!!
Here's a tip for you: Use one of the other hundreds of skills?
Div
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Crawford
In limited efforts, I wasn't succeeding much in hard mode with a standard 3 x SF/MM primary/heroes group build of the sort that rocks in normal mode. Too squishy, and not killing the enemies fast enough.
This isn't necessarily a result of the nerf. You can take trash and still rock normal mode, whereas you'll get your ass handed to you if you run the same thing in HM. A 10% difference is barely noticeable (oh no it takes you 5 seconds to kill it instead of 4.5 now), and not killing the enemies fast enough is a result of them being a billion levels higher than they usually are.
GeniusLoci
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazjun
As for SF, I reckon it's a poor nerf. Let's face it, it's no threat alone, it's only when used in numbers that it's scary. With 3 SFer's (which you get from any guild team or heroway), the nerf makes pretty much no difference at all. It's only the single ele looking to pug that get's hurt. Pity that. |
As for Frenzy - yup, in PvP it's another story. Given how many useful elites my Paragon has Soldier's Fury is better choice for him. But warriors don't have such choice. Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pingu666
well with the current burn time, without wand/offhand bonus'es, only actully hit 1 damage spike
so its 1 cast of sf to burn glowing glaze sf cast to spike liquid flame sf to burn sf to spike Mark of Rodgort? Immolate 1sec/SF spyke/Immolate/SF spyke... Kind of slow, huh? If you use MoR then Steam is another good adition, no need of 14 in water to get it to 6 seconds. And I agree current burn time is OK, I was wrong. Leonidas2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanman.be
Oh noes! A skill doesn't work so good anymore as it used to be! What s hall we do now?!? We're totally desperate!!
Here's a tip for you: Use one of the other hundreds of skills? Haha, totally agreed with you there. At any rate, the nerf to SF was called for and I'm glad it happened, although it was probably done for more PvP implications than PvE. Either way, I never found much use to run the SF in hard mode. Hard mode enemies are too strong to have a large number of your team be damage with no defense. Sure the "They're on Fire!" trick works, but I vanquished 80% of my zones with hero/hench, the other 20% being with my ranger friend and heros. Earth and Air held my staple builds that carried me through. (I am legendary vanquisher...I'm not just spitting in the wind here) That's not to say, of course, fire doesn't have its place. One fire ele can suffice. Zhed frequently ran savannah heat if I needed another slot to fill, which amounted for decent enough DPS. The point is exactely how Yanman put it, find other skills. We don't have over 100 skills to only run 8 of them in every single zone of every single continent. Anet was merely trying to encourage elementalists to get an imagination to use a variety of builds.
mikez himself
um, i ran the typical SF build on my heros, wasnt that great, running a duel SH build with lots of AOE worked alot better tbh
Dutch Masterr
So 119 damage was "nerfed" to 106 damage.....TIME TO GO KILL MYSELF!
Does the 13 damage really hinder your gaming so much? rista blodorn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Masterr
So 119 damage was "nerfed" to 106 damage.....TIME TO GO KILL MYSELF!
Does the 13 damage really hinder your gaming so much? Such a minor nerf that you kind of wonder why they bothered with it at all. Regardless the way I use SF it really has no impact on me at all. 2 SF ele's with some paragon support is still highly effective in PvE normal mode. And as other posters have commented SF can be used in hard mode to good effect (again as long as there are at least 2 ele's using it) there are other builds that are better for most hard mode missions. Never really used in PvP so no real comment there other then to say there are still plenty of good ele PvP builds so if you were using SF you have no shortage of other options. Turbobusa
I went vanquishing today, and tbh, the 2 SF guildies were killing things so fast I could not tell where was the difference between pre-update SF and the new one.
Darkpower Alchemist
The SF nerf is considerable, but not debilitating. From 119 to 100 is alot over time, but not much in the initial cast. 5 casts of SF currently is 95 pts of damage less than previously. That says it all.
Yet, they also made intensity useless. I'd rather bring[skill=card]Glyph of Elemental Power[/skill] instead. Yet, 2 SF eles will lay waste to alot of real estate if no one gets close enough to stop them. Also, take into account that if the 2 eles cast not simultaneously, but slightly behind each other, the burning occurs in abundance and regularly. 
Pebbles
Well it's certainly noticeable to me now. I had to make a new fire build useless in most applications to me now and alot of other elementalists I know in game agree with me.
In reality thats all there is to say about that matter. Thankfully begin an ele for a long time I know what it's like to be utterly Obliterated and your neck broken by unthinking nerf happy Anet devs and then left for years in the grave marked "Broken classes". In contrast to some of the actions in the past this is pretty mild. Still a punch to the head and a broken nose but not debilitating death. One thing I don't understand why did they nerf frozen burst aswell? It's a defense spell that was rendered useless by it's aftercast (1.5secs you still get hit 4 times by a sin who will knock you down then and kill you). and they then REDUCE it's effective duration? Ugh ¬_¬ I'm all for increasing diversity but thats impossible when any alternatives to fire magic keep getting shot out.
frojack
Well Frozen was very good in pvp. It could slow virtually everyone to a crawl. Almost permanently. Yes it's a hex and it can be removed. What's the point if it just gets re-applied 5 seconds later? The double after-cast is the balancing factor though, as you can't exactly get away fast. Even still it wasn't much of a nerf. Functionality and effectiveness are still more or less the same.
The Blurred Vision nerf was a little harsh. However looking at the necro hex equivalents you can kinda understand why they did it. As long as Izzy buffs Swirling Aura considerably (50% block on 'everything', 30 second recharge) I don't mind this change much. SF needs to be hit harder...
Div
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pebbles
Thankfully begin an ele for a long time I know what it's like to be utterly Obliterated and your neck broken by unthinking nerf happy Anet devs and then left for years in the grave marked "Broken classes".
Thankfully you haven't been a mesmer, sin, or paragon for a long time or else you'll actually know what it means to truly be unwanted in PvE. This is why I have no sympathy with cries about nerfs to eles.
Grammar
Losing 13 damage is is hardly worth crying about.
The real nerf to the single PvE SF Ele was the increase of MoR's recharge (from 5 seconds to 15), not the loss of 13 damage. Ouch! Why triple it? How about going for the double with 10 seconds? Yikes. BDZeres
IMO SF needs to be hit harder. It is an AoE spell that always hit the target and with a fast casting time on top of that. Increase cast time to 2 seconds IMO.
Trylo
im so glad. they need to nerf it more. make the duration of burning up to maybe even 9 seconds at 16 with ~80 damage (maybe less). That FAR more useful in highlvl pve anyways and will also solve the "packs" in pvp. please just do that?
why does no one use SH in PvE? i can take out margonites, titans, shadow armies with just SH + SearHeat + TeinHeat. also you can control exactly where they go with the aoes.
Vagrant
Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
Thankfully you haven't been a mesmer, sin, or paragon for a long time or else you'll actually know what it means to truly be unwanted in PvE. This is why I have no sympathy with cries about nerfs to eles.
If you know what you're doing as a sin in pve, you can easily outperform any warrior, both in damage and defense (see my shiro build in the assassin forum). However, you are required to cater your build a little more delicately than a warrior.
That being said though, I have no experience as a mesmer or paragon in pve. I can see why paragons are considered undesirable, but mesmers have always seemed useful on my teams.
Chicken Ftw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant
If you know what you're doing as a sin in pve, you can easily outperform any warrior, both in damage and defense (see my shiro build in the assassin forum). However, you are required to cater your build a little more delicately than a warrior.
Bah, I'd argue about performance, but that's for another thread. Regardless, performance doesn't equal popularity. Paras can be extremely effective in PvE too, yet hardly anyone uses them. Same case with sins/mesmers. That was his point, not that they're not effective.
Basically, people in general are ignorant and only use that which they know to work, instead of experimenting with the unknown.
Vagrant
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw
Bah, I'd argue about performance, but that's for another thread. Regardless, performance doesn't equal popularity. Paras can be extremely effective in PvE too, yet hardly anyone uses them. Same case with sins/mesmers. That was his point, not that they're not effective.
Basically, people in general are ignorant and only use that which they know to work, instead of experimenting with the unknown. Good point, good point. I love to tinker with things, so I personally enjoy unusual or self-designed builds. GeniusLoci
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant
If you know what you're doing as a sin in pve, you can easily outperform any warrior, both in damage and defense (see my shiro build in the assassin forum). However, you are required to cater your build a little more delicately than a warrior.
That being said though, I have no experience as a mesmer or paragon in pve. I can see why paragons are considered undesirable, but mesmers have always seemed useful on my teams. Just a $0.02 Two days ago I went in FoW with an Ele. It was his first time in group with Paragon. Now I am in top of his "for FoW" list as he was shocked to find how much easier is with constant like -50% damage, some regen, high criticals and Constant Burning on mobs (which helped greatly to my Ele Hero and his SF - only his first SF cast is not a spyke and only if he casts it before the warrior gets to his target). holymasamune is right, compared to how easy was to get group with my Ele, my Paragon is... well, the first time I got to ToA I just stood there for 20 minutes, said something like "Oh, well, may be other time" and went to do something else. Illustrates every other occasion you can imagine as well.
Pwny Ride
Savannah Heat was always better than SF, especially when combo'd with mark of rodgort.
GeniusLoci
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pwny Ride
Savannah Heat was always better than SF, especially when combo'd with mark of rodgort.
I just pointed build where SF is way better and not restricting in both time and area damage. So "always" = false.
|
