Is anyone else tired of all the ANET bashing?
spellsword
We are customers. If we aren't happy with the product, we have a right to complain.
Patrick Smit
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
It's a sweet irony. The pessimism which I've been flamed relentlessly for is now commonplace among these forums.
Regardless, this topic doesn't make a good distinction between ArenaNet bashing and ArenaNet critisizing. Bashing is baseless. Valid criticisms, such as those critising Andrew Patrick's post in that Community Relations, are helpful. |
Critics are always accompanied by arguments. Flames and Bashings are just players opinions, and never argument anything. So flames may be accompanied by critics, but some people are not able to do one without the other. If they would just learn that, then their posts would be perfect.
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Originally Posted by spellsword
We are customers. If we aren't happy with the product, we have a right to complain.
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MrFuzzles
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Originally Posted by spellsword
We are customers. If we aren't happy with the product, we have a right to complain.
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or?..
I've always been a supporter of feedback, if I get "into" a game, I almost always seek out a forum to voice my opinion on it, good or bad. But criticism != complaining. "I liked team arena better when it was 6v6 because it was easier to manage" is constructive criticism. "omg gg anet for breaking HA, I don't understand why you spend so much time adding useless features instead of fixing all the bugs and overpowered classes" is complaining.
Mad King Corn
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| The last few months they have been horrendous. I will let them know that by not buying GW:EN or GW2 |
Etta
Ben Affleck's character in Mallrats said it best about all customers, and I agree with him.
Milennin
Meh, I dislike the bashing, especially the constructive criticism-less bashing. I wish the world could be more like...
spellsword
While it is true that constructive critic is preferable, the other kind is important too. It lets the developers know that the users aren't happy with certain aspects of the game. What I am trying to say is that complains and bashing are worse than good, thorough posts, but better than not voicing ones opinion at all.
mr_groovy
Well Anet has outdone them selves the last updates to nerf everything to hell.
At first it was fun farming in Hard Mode. We got lots of golds, but now. I've been killing dozens on dozens in HM. And what do I have to show for it? Not a single gold this morning. I think this is new way for anet have a solution against spam.
Let's see Less gold drops -> Less things to sell -> Less sell spam -> Less buy spam too because they aren't getting any money.
Lately I have the feeling that anet wants us in pve just to play the missions with chars, get titles hope for the occasional rare green, gold drop and that's it. And this is a VERY sad development.
So yes I understand, and agree fully that there is bashing because people are getting frustated. Hell I am getting frustated. And don't tell me that I should play the storyline now. I recently got a new necro through cantha, and my ele through Elona. (Which gave me on both adventures absolutely nothing worthwhile, and about 10K or less in drops ). Also got my Legendary Carto on my warrior, so I've been on the title road too.
I want to farm now to get some nice stuff either to sell, or to keep. But lately it's just not worth the effort anymore.
And it's not because I don't know how, or where to farm. The drop rate just S*cks in Hard Mode and even worse in Normal.
/end rant & bash| telling the truth
At first it was fun farming in Hard Mode. We got lots of golds, but now. I've been killing dozens on dozens in HM. And what do I have to show for it? Not a single gold this morning. I think this is new way for anet have a solution against spam.
Let's see Less gold drops -> Less things to sell -> Less sell spam -> Less buy spam too because they aren't getting any money.
Lately I have the feeling that anet wants us in pve just to play the missions with chars, get titles hope for the occasional rare green, gold drop and that's it. And this is a VERY sad development.
So yes I understand, and agree fully that there is bashing because people are getting frustated. Hell I am getting frustated. And don't tell me that I should play the storyline now. I recently got a new necro through cantha, and my ele through Elona. (Which gave me on both adventures absolutely nothing worthwhile, and about 10K or less in drops ). Also got my Legendary Carto on my warrior, so I've been on the title road too.
I want to farm now to get some nice stuff either to sell, or to keep. But lately it's just not worth the effort anymore.
And it's not because I don't know how, or where to farm. The drop rate just S*cks in Hard Mode and even worse in Normal./end rant & bash| telling the truth
Orphan Anthem
Yeah im pretty sick of all the ANET bashing, they have a gameplan and they fallow that. if any of us acually make a valad point they take it into consideration and see if it can be done.
Some of the bashing is justified but in general people are just whinning to get the changes they want done.
Like the whole kurz/lux title track is just such a grind so they doubled the reward for it. i feel sorry but all the people that donated before the change but how cna you complain now
Some of the bashing is justified but in general people are just whinning to get the changes they want done.
Like the whole kurz/lux title track is just such a grind so they doubled the reward for it. i feel sorry but all the people that donated before the change but how cna you complain now
Fril Estelin
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Originally Posted by OI-812
We have money, which they want. It is up to them to EARN that money.
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What a joke! Saying that about a serious MMO that has no monthly fee and which interacts with its community! With daily updates, monthly modifications, countless features implemented based on community's suggestions. With PvE and PvP, with 2 expansions that modify the original game, regular original events.
Ths "customer" is NOT always right, you're the definitive proof of that. You deserve the bashing.
[/bashing mode]
GW is definitive VALUE FOR MONEY, I got my 3 games for a total of £50/75€/100$ with hundreds of hours of gameplay in my past and into my future! For this money, what would I have ... with WoW for example? 8 months of furious gaming (thanks, no thanks!)... 4 or 6 good offline games?
I guess that not everyone can appreciate a great thing when they have it in front of them. The more you give, the more some people want! Free GW anyone? Anet to develop your own very specific version of GW for you and your friends? With daily new content and missions, the best graphics with the most efficient rendering and networking? ...
around
I 'bash' ANet because I don't like the way they look in magazine interviews.
You have to remember that the people who complain are the people who actually like the game and don't want to see it turn into a flaming pile of shit. Those who grow too disillusioned just leave the game without saying anything.
You have to remember that the people who complain are the people who actually like the game and don't want to see it turn into a flaming pile of shit. Those who grow too disillusioned just leave the game without saying anything.
Fril Estelin
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Originally Posted by spawnofebil
a flaming pile of shit.
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We all like the game (if not, go try another one I guess), but I'm not sure we do so the same way. Anet deserves their success after years of hard and continued work. We paid a small price for a great game, we all have our views on how to make it better for us, but do we understand the GW community so well?
Cacheelma
I'm more sick and tired of some of my fellow Anet's fanboi fanatics than anything.
shirosae
Dear Poster,
I'm going to assume that by 'bashing' you do not mean legitimate complaints directed at Anet. I'll get to people who do refer to legitimate complaints directed at Anet in a moment.
My opinion is this:
Someone bashing something (such as Anet, or a recent update, or whatever) has two possible reasons for doing so.
1) They're upset with something (in the game), and are angry about it. Either they can't articulate that, or won't explain it properly out of anger or resentment or such. Or they can articulate that, and do, but appear somewhat angry.
2) They're trolling.
Either they have a genuine objection or concern, or they don't.
In response to that, i have two options. I can look at what they say, and see if i can make any sense out of it. If i can discern an argument, i can actively try to make it right - in my mind's eye. If i can do that, this person has a point - regardless of that person's intent (whether i think they're trolling or not). A valid point is a valid point, even if it's presented in the middle of a huge idiotic flame and they've just gotten lucky with a paragraph.
As such, my usual response to everything is to try to see anything worthwhile in it.
Because of this, person (1) has their concerns heard, and if i'm in a position where i can do something about it, i can do my part. Also, person (2) gets really frustrated and gives up or tries harder to troll until he breaks the rules and gets banned/sacked/arrested/sent to a penal colony on Mars.
If, instead, i decide that i'm going to throw a mood-swing, complain and rage-quit the thread while screaming OMG U R A TROLL QQ MORE WHINER, person (1) just loses faith in my ability to understand and process english, while person (2) gets a big smug grin because i've just given them the rise they were looking for.
I can't see any rational behaviour other than reading posts properly, attempting to see any genuine reason within them, and ignoring everything else.
Because of that, i don't find the 'Anet bashing' nearly as tiring as the Legendary Defender of Arenanet fanboy posts which attempt to reduce all posts not gushing in adoration of Anet to 'QQ more what do u want an invincibility button u need 2 work for ur obsidien also progrming is rely hard u shuld go back 2 schol'*.
I do think that Arenanet's heart is in the right place. I reckon that they do try to balance PvP over PvE (which is fair enough, in my opinion, PvE has much greater flexibility for balance, even if Anet don't seem to be willing to take advantage of that to compensate for PvP nerfs). I also think that they don't particularly understand PvP, and attempt to apply PvE-style nerfs to skills, not understanding that the two aren't the same thing.
I also think they have a huge tendency to over-think things, turning what should be simple additions (See: PvE only skills), into ridiculously overblown things which don't work properly because they've been tied into everything else.
Now, neither of the above are whining or bashing. They're just opinions, possibly (probably) wrong. But if Anet isn't perfect (and they themselves seem to admit that they are not), then they need feedback from the players. If they're clever, they'll attempt to draw feedback from any source they can, even the ridiculous flamefests. Angry people are still angry for a reason. It is in their interests to know and understand those reasons.
The people who would insist that the above are whining and bashing, contribute precious nothing to the argument. Unless they do - but then they're not just misinterpeting the above, because they have an argument to put forward.
That is to say, people who say nothing but 'omg QQ more you should stop bashing Anet' are on a level with actual trolls. Except that trolls usually aren't so self-righteously annoying.
*I am aware that this is almost a strawman argument, since most fanboys don't actually type like this. I find it difficult to resist, though, and the point isn't dependant on the misspelling.
Culturally appropriate postscript,
Spiderman
I'm going to assume that by 'bashing' you do not mean legitimate complaints directed at Anet. I'll get to people who do refer to legitimate complaints directed at Anet in a moment.
My opinion is this:
Someone bashing something (such as Anet, or a recent update, or whatever) has two possible reasons for doing so.
1) They're upset with something (in the game), and are angry about it. Either they can't articulate that, or won't explain it properly out of anger or resentment or such. Or they can articulate that, and do, but appear somewhat angry.
2) They're trolling.
Either they have a genuine objection or concern, or they don't.
In response to that, i have two options. I can look at what they say, and see if i can make any sense out of it. If i can discern an argument, i can actively try to make it right - in my mind's eye. If i can do that, this person has a point - regardless of that person's intent (whether i think they're trolling or not). A valid point is a valid point, even if it's presented in the middle of a huge idiotic flame and they've just gotten lucky with a paragraph.
As such, my usual response to everything is to try to see anything worthwhile in it.
Because of this, person (1) has their concerns heard, and if i'm in a position where i can do something about it, i can do my part. Also, person (2) gets really frustrated and gives up or tries harder to troll until he breaks the rules and gets banned/sacked/arrested/sent to a penal colony on Mars.
If, instead, i decide that i'm going to throw a mood-swing, complain and rage-quit the thread while screaming OMG U R A TROLL QQ MORE WHINER, person (1) just loses faith in my ability to understand and process english, while person (2) gets a big smug grin because i've just given them the rise they were looking for.
I can't see any rational behaviour other than reading posts properly, attempting to see any genuine reason within them, and ignoring everything else.
Because of that, i don't find the 'Anet bashing' nearly as tiring as the Legendary Defender of Arenanet fanboy posts which attempt to reduce all posts not gushing in adoration of Anet to 'QQ more what do u want an invincibility button u need 2 work for ur obsidien also progrming is rely hard u shuld go back 2 schol'*.
I do think that Arenanet's heart is in the right place. I reckon that they do try to balance PvP over PvE (which is fair enough, in my opinion, PvE has much greater flexibility for balance, even if Anet don't seem to be willing to take advantage of that to compensate for PvP nerfs). I also think that they don't particularly understand PvP, and attempt to apply PvE-style nerfs to skills, not understanding that the two aren't the same thing.
I also think they have a huge tendency to over-think things, turning what should be simple additions (See: PvE only skills), into ridiculously overblown things which don't work properly because they've been tied into everything else.
Now, neither of the above are whining or bashing. They're just opinions, possibly (probably) wrong. But if Anet isn't perfect (and they themselves seem to admit that they are not), then they need feedback from the players. If they're clever, they'll attempt to draw feedback from any source they can, even the ridiculous flamefests. Angry people are still angry for a reason. It is in their interests to know and understand those reasons.
The people who would insist that the above are whining and bashing, contribute precious nothing to the argument. Unless they do - but then they're not just misinterpeting the above, because they have an argument to put forward.
That is to say, people who say nothing but 'omg QQ more you should stop bashing Anet' are on a level with actual trolls. Except that trolls usually aren't so self-righteously annoying.
*I am aware that this is almost a strawman argument, since most fanboys don't actually type like this. I find it difficult to resist, though, and the point isn't dependant on the misspelling.
Culturally appropriate postscript,
Spiderman
around
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Originally Posted by spawnofebil
I 'bash' ANet because I don't like the way they look in magazine interviews.
You have to remember that the people who complain are the people who actually like the game and don't want to see it turn into a flaming pile of shit. Those who grow too disillusioned just leave the game without saying anything. |
Next.
Rocky Raccoon
I would like to give a few definitions of terms used on this forum.
1. Fanboy is a term used to describe an individual (usually male, though the feminine version fangirl may be used for females) who is utterly devoted to a single fannish subject.
2. Constructive criticism (often shortened to 'CC' or 'concrit') is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one.
3. Whine to snivel or complain in a peevish, self-pitying way.
4. Flame to insult or criticize angrily in an electronic message.
First I would like to say I am a GW fanboy and am proud of it, and so is everyone else who posts on this forum according to the definition. I find nothing wrong with constructive criticism as it is a valid way to construe ones point of view of a situation. If the forum was to stick to constructive criticism I would have no problem. The problem I have is that I see way to much whining and flaming on this forum (see above definitions). Now I will prepare myself to be bashed by the whiners and flamers.
5. Bash To criticize (another) harshly, accusatorially, and threateningly
1. Fanboy is a term used to describe an individual (usually male, though the feminine version fangirl may be used for females) who is utterly devoted to a single fannish subject.
2. Constructive criticism (often shortened to 'CC' or 'concrit') is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one.
3. Whine to snivel or complain in a peevish, self-pitying way.
4. Flame to insult or criticize angrily in an electronic message.
First I would like to say I am a GW fanboy and am proud of it, and so is everyone else who posts on this forum according to the definition. I find nothing wrong with constructive criticism as it is a valid way to construe ones point of view of a situation. If the forum was to stick to constructive criticism I would have no problem. The problem I have is that I see way to much whining and flaming on this forum (see above definitions). Now I will prepare myself to be bashed by the whiners and flamers.
5. Bash To criticize (another) harshly, accusatorially, and threateningly
Gawa
I try to keep my posts short (yet the reality is, to support oneself in a manner that may be clear to some people it often requires more than a few words. Ive also found that being faced with people who somehow think that complaining is the same as flaming...(see Spellsword's post) makes this neigh on impossible.) since those who would benefit from the good advice that i and others are giving, either do not bother to read posts longer than a couple of paragraphs or they choose to disregard them to the detriment of the rest of us.
What Risky Ranger and others have said here as I and many others have said before, is irrefutable (no one can reasonably claim otherwise):
'Bashing' and 'flaming' is wrong.
All the time.
Yet in this forum it continues and it gets worse.
Why? Because it is allowed to.
As shirosae commented, people do this because "either they can't articulate [that], or won't explain it properly out of anger or resentment or such..[snip]..or they're trolling.
We cant help someones inarticulation; yet being inarticulate or lacking in manners is no excuse to tolerate bashing or flaming.
If someone is being resentful and bashing and flaming on purpose...yet again, no reason to tolerate that.
Yet it is tolerated. Once it is tolerated, it is accepted as the 'norm' and thus over time becomes less 'bad'.
Forget about the fact that the forum rules clearly lay out that flaming, bashing, non contributive posts are not welcome and will not be tolerated.
A lot of people here could also do well to take a lesson in forum etiquette.
In closing, if we the community can not get through to some people that flaming and bashing is DESTRUCTIVE to the GW community rather than constructive... then:
it falls squarely to the Mods and Admins of the forum to take action and once again show that it is not acceptable to bash or flame.
(this will not be easy for guru, no one likes to appear to be the 'spoilsport'. However, this forum should not have and does not have to have this aggressive undertone running through it. It can be repaired over time.)
It is sad that some people see this as a fight between ANet fanbois and those that are upset at ANet..... that is completely wrong and a little childish.
Rather it is simply that some of us know it is wiser to not breed an environment of hate, and that we have the strength of belief to stand up against what is wrong.
Lack of condemnation is tantamount to condoning flaming and bashing.
Didnt read my avatar as suggested in my last post? Don't read my signature now then.
What Risky Ranger and others have said here as I and many others have said before, is irrefutable (no one can reasonably claim otherwise):
'Bashing' and 'flaming' is wrong.
All the time.
Yet in this forum it continues and it gets worse.
Why? Because it is allowed to.
As shirosae commented, people do this because "either they can't articulate [that], or won't explain it properly out of anger or resentment or such..[snip]..or they're trolling.
We cant help someones inarticulation; yet being inarticulate or lacking in manners is no excuse to tolerate bashing or flaming.
If someone is being resentful and bashing and flaming on purpose...yet again, no reason to tolerate that.
Yet it is tolerated. Once it is tolerated, it is accepted as the 'norm' and thus over time becomes less 'bad'.
Forget about the fact that the forum rules clearly lay out that flaming, bashing, non contributive posts are not welcome and will not be tolerated.
A lot of people here could also do well to take a lesson in forum etiquette.
In closing, if we the community can not get through to some people that flaming and bashing is DESTRUCTIVE to the GW community rather than constructive... then:
it falls squarely to the Mods and Admins of the forum to take action and once again show that it is not acceptable to bash or flame.
(this will not be easy for guru, no one likes to appear to be the 'spoilsport'. However, this forum should not have and does not have to have this aggressive undertone running through it. It can be repaired over time.)
It is sad that some people see this as a fight between ANet fanbois and those that are upset at ANet..... that is completely wrong and a little childish.
Rather it is simply that some of us know it is wiser to not breed an environment of hate, and that we have the strength of belief to stand up against what is wrong.
Lack of condemnation is tantamount to condoning flaming and bashing.
Didnt read my avatar as suggested in my last post? Don't read my signature now then.
GodofAcid
Expressing your opinion is fine, however it should be reasonable. That's a word alot of people on these forums need to look up: reasonable. If Anet is sitting around clearly avoiding doing their job which is improving this game, then people have all the right to complain. This is a product that we all paid for, and we have the right to expect it to be maintained. However, alot of people take it overboard. When Anet is doing an adequate job of trying to maintain the game and people feel the need to pick at them for every minor detail, those people need to cut it out.
An example of this is when Anet addresses a major issue and people complain about prioritizing. Hey, if they're working to fix things, leave them alone. If your issue is a serious concern to the community as you feel it is, then they will get to it. Express your concerns so they're aware of those issues, and then sit back and let them do their job at that point. If a lengthy amount of time goes by (and I don't mean one week, again, refer to the word reasonable) and nothing has been done, THEN you have every right to speak up and be critical about that particular issue. Picking at them when they're clearly trying to do the right thing is not reasonable. There are times when that criticism is valid because at times, maintaining the product has been neglected. Pick your battles. This message goes out to all those who have put up posts about their issues not being prioritized. This is a community, not just you, and it does not revolve around you. Learn to look at the greater community, not just yourselves.
This is a topic that I don't feel can be used as an umbrella, because it's all relative to the specific situation at hand. I went off on a bit of a rant there, but hopefully the message will not be wasted.
An example of this is when Anet addresses a major issue and people complain about prioritizing. Hey, if they're working to fix things, leave them alone. If your issue is a serious concern to the community as you feel it is, then they will get to it. Express your concerns so they're aware of those issues, and then sit back and let them do their job at that point. If a lengthy amount of time goes by (and I don't mean one week, again, refer to the word reasonable) and nothing has been done, THEN you have every right to speak up and be critical about that particular issue. Picking at them when they're clearly trying to do the right thing is not reasonable. There are times when that criticism is valid because at times, maintaining the product has been neglected. Pick your battles. This message goes out to all those who have put up posts about their issues not being prioritized. This is a community, not just you, and it does not revolve around you. Learn to look at the greater community, not just yourselves.
This is a topic that I don't feel can be used as an umbrella, because it's all relative to the specific situation at hand. I went off on a bit of a rant there, but hopefully the message will not be wasted.
Inde
Well I'll pop in and comment on one issue in this thread. The problem with everyone's interpretation of this problem is that what one person considers a flame another person does not. I've seen a lot of you call someone out for flamebait on another forum user because YOU feel attacked when I can run a persons post by several people and others will see nothing wrong with it.
A discussion can be negative and not have flaming in it. Some of you don't believe that though. If it's negative and YOU disagree with it then you consider it flaming/bashing. It's only someone's interpretation of flaming that can be debated. Please do not accuse the mods of "not doing anything about this" because your own personal opinion differs from theirs.
The community is restless. This happens EVERY time between chapters.
It's called a "trend" and the moderators on this forum are more then aware how these all play out. Deleting out whatever anyone else considers a 'negative' opinion is not good moderating. The community wants to have a voice on issues and we allow you to have that voice. I can delete out someone's post saying "anet sucks" and be called a "fanboy site" while there's plenty of other 'negative opinions' in a thread. I can delete out a one-liner saying 'good job anet' that doesn't contribute to a thread and be called an 'anti-anet site'. Again, all perspective people.
I can guarantee that I see more posts then nearly anyone else reading this thread. I read more fansites, more guild sites, more blogs, news articles and more on Guild Wars then nearly all of you. I know the overall opinion of a community. Let me stress again that a 'negative' opinion does not equal flamebait. We delete out hundreds of posts every day on this forum. We edit and close hundreds.
The bashing that you all see going on... there are right now more positive threads on the front page then negative. I do believe some of you are choosing to close yourself off and that you purposely like to open up any thread that is controversial just to prove your own point and say "see all the bashing going on?!". There are a lot of issues with Guild Wars right now, people have strong opinions and express those opinions because they hope and are involved in this game. They care! Otherwise they would just bypass posts entirely.
I also believe that some of you are choosing to ignore some of the problems Guild Wars has in favor of blindly following a game and it's developers. Wow, yes I know I'm being very blunt here. It all boils down to this (yeah this will probably be the closest to flaming you'll ever see coming from me) I don't mind Anet bashing or negative opinions. I believe that you are trying to send a message and I carefully weigh whether your posts cross a line i.e. insults, unconstructive one-liners, etc. I don't want to silence that. Quite frankly what I'm tired of is the whining. !!!!!! I said it. The whining about the complainers, the whining over whether a build has been nerfed, the whining because you feel Anet is being bashed. So.... there you go. And guess what, I allow that too. Because I feel your voice needs to be heard just as much as what you consider a basher or flame.
A discussion can be negative and not have flaming in it. Some of you don't believe that though. If it's negative and YOU disagree with it then you consider it flaming/bashing. It's only someone's interpretation of flaming that can be debated. Please do not accuse the mods of "not doing anything about this" because your own personal opinion differs from theirs.
The community is restless. This happens EVERY time between chapters.
It's called a "trend" and the moderators on this forum are more then aware how these all play out. Deleting out whatever anyone else considers a 'negative' opinion is not good moderating. The community wants to have a voice on issues and we allow you to have that voice. I can delete out someone's post saying "anet sucks" and be called a "fanboy site" while there's plenty of other 'negative opinions' in a thread. I can delete out a one-liner saying 'good job anet' that doesn't contribute to a thread and be called an 'anti-anet site'. Again, all perspective people.I can guarantee that I see more posts then nearly anyone else reading this thread. I read more fansites, more guild sites, more blogs, news articles and more on Guild Wars then nearly all of you. I know the overall opinion of a community. Let me stress again that a 'negative' opinion does not equal flamebait. We delete out hundreds of posts every day on this forum. We edit and close hundreds.
The bashing that you all see going on... there are right now more positive threads on the front page then negative. I do believe some of you are choosing to close yourself off and that you purposely like to open up any thread that is controversial just to prove your own point and say "see all the bashing going on?!". There are a lot of issues with Guild Wars right now, people have strong opinions and express those opinions because they hope and are involved in this game. They care! Otherwise they would just bypass posts entirely.
I also believe that some of you are choosing to ignore some of the problems Guild Wars has in favor of blindly following a game and it's developers. Wow, yes I know I'm being very blunt here. It all boils down to this (yeah this will probably be the closest to flaming you'll ever see coming from me) I don't mind Anet bashing or negative opinions. I believe that you are trying to send a message and I carefully weigh whether your posts cross a line i.e. insults, unconstructive one-liners, etc. I don't want to silence that. Quite frankly what I'm tired of is the whining. !!!!!! I said it. The whining about the complainers, the whining over whether a build has been nerfed, the whining because you feel Anet is being bashed. So.... there you go. And guess what, I allow that too. Because I feel your voice needs to be heard just as much as what you consider a basher or flame.
fenix
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Originally Posted by Inde
Well I'll pop in and comment on one issue in this thread. The problem with everyone's interpretation of this problem is that what one person considers a flame another person does not. I've seen a lot of you call someone out for flamebait on another forum user because YOU feel attacked when I can run a persons post by several people and others will see nothing wrong with it.
A discussion can be negative and not have flaming in it. Some of you don't believe that though. If it's negative and YOU disagree with it then you consider it flaming/bashing. It's only someone's interpretation of flaming that can be debated. Please do not accuse the mods of "not doing anything about this" because your own personal opinion differs from theirs. The community is restless. This happens EVERY time between chapters. It's called a "trend" and the moderators on this forum are more then aware how these all play out. Deleting out whatever anyone else considers a 'negative' opinion is not good moderating. The community wants to have a voice on issues and we allow you to have that voice. I can delete out someone's post saying "anet sucks" and be called a "fanboy site" while there's plenty of other 'negative opinions' in a thread. I can delete out a one-liner saying 'good job anet' that doesn't contribute to a thread and be called an 'anti-anet site'. Again, all perspective people.I can guarantee that I see more posts then nearly anyone else reading this thread. I read more fansites, more guild sites, more blogs, news articles and more on Guild Wars then nearly all of you. I know the overall opinion of a community. Let me stress again that a 'negative' opinion does not equal flamebait. We delete out hundreds of posts every day on this forum. We edit and close hundreds. The bashing that you all see going on... there are right now more positive threads on the front page then negative. I do believe some of you are choosing to close yourself off and that you purposely like to open up any thread that is controversial just to prove your own point and say "see all the bashing going on?!". There are a lot of issues with Guild Wars right now, people have strong opinions and express those opinions because they hope and are involved in this game. They care! Otherwise they would just bypass posts entirely. I also believe that some of you are choosing to ignore some of the problems Guild Wars has in favor of blindly following a game and it's developers. Wow, yes I know I'm being very blunt here. It all boils down to this (yeah this will probably be the closest to flaming you'll ever see coming from me) I don't mind Anet bashing or negative opinions. I believe that you are trying to send a message and I carefully weigh whether your posts cross a line i.e. insults, unconstructive one-liners, etc. I don't want to silence that. Quite frankly what I'm tired of is the whining. !!!!!! I said it. The whining about the complainers, the whining over whether a build has been nerfed, the whining because you feel Anet is being bashed. So.... there you go. And guess what, I allow that too. Because I feel your voice needs to be heard just as much as what you consider a basher or flame. |
Hear ye, hear ye. Thread is over.
Inde = win, basically.
Who cares if people are posting anti-Anet things, unless Anet themselves have an issue with it, don't post stupid whine posts saying that it's mean to flame Anet. All companies have to deal with flak, and if Anet can't do it, then it's their own fault. As the saying goes; if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Red
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Originally Posted by Inde
Quite frankly what I'm tired of is the whining. !!!!!! I said it. The whining about the complainers, the whining over whether a build has been nerfed, the whining because you feel Anet is being bashed.
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No, that post is win. It's good ta know that at least SOME people understand--a lot of us who yell loudest about the issues, are in fact the ones who actually care about the game, in the sense that we want to see ANet get better. To be honest, a lot of the people who WOULD write negative posts with bitterness and just completely lacking in constructive criticisms..... they've already left the game :/
Gawa
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Originally Posted by Inde
The problem with everyone's interpretation of this problem is that what one person considers a flame another person does not.
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Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Flaming is the act of sending or posting messages that are deliberately hostile and insulting.
A flame is typically not intended to be constructive, to further clarify a discussion, or to persuade other people. The motive for flaming is often not dialectic, but rather social or psychological Sometimes, flamers are attempting to assert their authority, or establish a position of superiority. Other times, the flamer is simply a closed-minded or biased individual whose conviction that his is the only valid opinion leads him to personally attack any "dissenters." Occasionally, flamers wish to upset and offend other members of the forum, in which case they are trolls. Most often however, flames are angry or insulting messages transmitted by people who have strong feelings about a subject. |
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Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Guru Forum Rules
Every post and thread should add to knowledge rather than mislead or contribute to the confusion.
Posting meaningless deranged psychobabble with no substantial merit or posts that do not contribute to the thread discussion will more than likely be deleted without notice. Any post which violates civilized standards of decency or good conduct will be deleted immediately and without any further notice. Repeat offenders will be temporarily or permanently banned. Flaming is the act of posting messages that are deliberately hostile and insulting. A troll is a person who posts inflammatory messages intended to cause a disruption in discourse and to provoke other members into hostility. ..personal attacks are not warranted... If you cannot be respectful to others, then don't be surprised if those in charge are not respectful of your continued privilege to post. ...do not spam these forums, or such posts will be deleted. To determine whether or not your post can be considered as spam, ask, "does this add to or advance the thread in a constructive way." If you answer, "yes," then chances are, you're good to go. Examples of spam posts include: “Yeah me too," "lol”, “that’s what I wanted to say…,” “what the guy above said…”, etc. A warning may or may not be issued for violating any of these guidelines. When you have accumulated a substantial amount of warnings... you will be temporarily banned...If you break the rules repeatedly you will be permanently banned, no questions, no excuses. |
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Originally Posted by Inde
..the issue is that the flaming is bad everywhere right now... If the overall opinion of the community right now is negative, we can not supress or try to silence those who want to speak out....So while we our monitoring volatile threads, this takes up time, so maybe more spamming is getting through. This is why we ask for your help in reporting posts!
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Originally Posted by Malice Black
The flaming and general abuse in Riverside is pretty horrendous, maybe it's time to fully introduce mini-bans to that forum? I know we do occasionally ban the odd 1 or 2 users (normally the same faces) but perhaps it's time we got mean, Ventari's soon shaped up when 0 tolerance was introduced.
I know people will moan (don't they always?), but the vocal trolls do make that forum a nightmare for someone who just wants to catch up on the latest news and TRY to have a discussion with their fellow gamers. |
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Originally Posted by Inde
I don't mind Anet bashing or negative opinions.... Quite frankly what I'm tired of is the whining. !!!!!! I said it......the whining because you feel Anet is being bashed. So.... there you go.
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(seriously though, i hope one last time that i am showing how i reach my train of thought. This is nothing to do with Anet bashing.. (i would have liked the thread title to be "fed up with bashing and flaming?").. just bashing and flaming in general, which i can not see anyone agreeing is ok to do ever. I attempt to be objective in my posts and can not see where i am being unreasonable or objectionable. Anyhooo...
)
Rocky Raccoon
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Originally Posted by Inde
I don't mind Anet bashing or negative opinions. I believe that you are trying to send a message and I carefully weigh whether your posts cross a line i.e. insults, unconstructive one-liners, etc. I don't want to silence that.
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Commander Ryker
I say, continue bashing anet as needed, but add a healthy dose of bashing ncsoft as well.
ensoriki
So what do you want to do if people are negative?
Tell them, you are not allowed to post your feelings in that manor because it angers someone else? Putting limits that aren't needed just turn things into prison.
Civil manner...means that people would have to treat each other all the same. If thats the case we lose diversity, a better term would be to treat each other with some thought.
The bashing of A-nerf ^.^ probably starts when some1 is on their computer going "Wha..wha...Soul reaping NOOOO...motha.." and instead of sitting their thinking it over they go to get feedback from others by bashing, maybe its a form of therapy.
Tell them, you are not allowed to post your feelings in that manor because it angers someone else? Putting limits that aren't needed just turn things into prison.
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The bashing of A-nerf ^.^ probably starts when some1 is on their computer going "Wha..wha...Soul reaping NOOOO...motha.." and instead of sitting their thinking it over they go to get feedback from others by bashing, maybe its a form of therapy.
Rocky Raccoon
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Originally Posted by ensoriki
So what do you want to do if people are negative?
Tell them, you are not allowed to post your feelings in that manor because it angers someone else? Putting limits that aren't needed just turn things into prison. Civil manner...means that people would have to treat each other all the same. If thats the case we lose diversity, a better term would be to treat each other with some thought. The bashing of A-nerf ^.^ probably starts when some1 is on their computer going "Wha..wha...Soul reaping NOOOO...motha.." and instead of sitting their thinking it over they go to get feedback from others by bashing, maybe its a form of therapy. |
2. the act of showing regard for others
Am I wrong for just asking people to act with civility?
OI-812
Apparently some of you people think that people like me never offer any constructive criticism to A.Net. I am now going to shoot your argument full of holes and burn it to cinders.
A.Net: The amount of graphical quality you have squeezed into GW boggles my mind time and time again. The fact that a relatively lackluster computer can wring so much graphical detail out of an online game without choking amazes me. Every other game I have played that can compete graphically with GW makes my lackluster secondary PC cry and beg for mercy. I applaud you.
The fact that you do not opt to charge a monthly fee is something you deserve to be beatified for, in an age of crappy MMOs that require a subscription fee (hello, Vanguard!), you somehow pull off a no-monthly-fee MMO/CORPG that bests Vanguard and some others like it at nearly EVERYTHING. I salute you. I have no idea how you do it, but I salute you.
The creative originality you display with the creation of the various environments and enemies throughout Tyria, Elona and Cantha is awesome. The ingenious character class concepts you have created such as the Dervish, are something to be lauded in an age of cookie-cutter "fighter-mage-priest-rogue" MMO class systems.
You are now punishing people who spam in chat channels when they should be using trade channels. I like that. That was a good move.
The simplicity of your weapon/armorcrafting system is to be applauded. Many other games turn crafting into an ordeal, only pursued by the grognards and gluttons for punishment. Not GW.
There are probably more things that I LOVE about GW that I have forgotten. But this is a start, to show that I am capable of doing something besides raking you over the coals.
A.Net: The amount of graphical quality you have squeezed into GW boggles my mind time and time again. The fact that a relatively lackluster computer can wring so much graphical detail out of an online game without choking amazes me. Every other game I have played that can compete graphically with GW makes my lackluster secondary PC cry and beg for mercy. I applaud you.
The fact that you do not opt to charge a monthly fee is something you deserve to be beatified for, in an age of crappy MMOs that require a subscription fee (hello, Vanguard!), you somehow pull off a no-monthly-fee MMO/CORPG that bests Vanguard and some others like it at nearly EVERYTHING. I salute you. I have no idea how you do it, but I salute you.
The creative originality you display with the creation of the various environments and enemies throughout Tyria, Elona and Cantha is awesome. The ingenious character class concepts you have created such as the Dervish, are something to be lauded in an age of cookie-cutter "fighter-mage-priest-rogue" MMO class systems.
You are now punishing people who spam in chat channels when they should be using trade channels. I like that. That was a good move.
The simplicity of your weapon/armorcrafting system is to be applauded. Many other games turn crafting into an ordeal, only pursued by the grognards and gluttons for punishment. Not GW.
There are probably more things that I LOVE about GW that I have forgotten. But this is a start, to show that I am capable of doing something besides raking you over the coals.
Rocky Raccoon
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Originally Posted by OI-812
Apparently some of you people think that people like me never offer any constructive criticism to A.Net. I am now going to shoot your argument full of holes and burn it to cinders.
A.Net: The amount of graphical quality you have squeezed into GW boggles my mind time and time again. The fact that a relatively lackluster computer can wring so much graphical detail out of an online game without choking amazes me. Every other game I have played that can compete graphically with GW makes my lackluster secondary PC cry and beg for mercy. I applaud you. The fact that you do not opt to charge a monthly fee is something you deserve to be beatified for, in an age of crappy MMOs that require a subscription fee (hello, Vanguard!), you somehow pull off a no-monthly-fee MMO/CORPG that bests Vanguard and some others like it at nearly EVERYTHING. I salute you. I have no idea how you do it, but I salute you. The creative originality you display with the creation of the various environments and enemies throughout Tyria, Elona and Cantha is awesome. The ingenious character class concepts you have created such as the Dervish, are something to be lauded in an age of cookie-cutter "fighter-mage-priest-rogue" MMO class systems. You are now punishing people who spam in chat channels when they should be using trade channels. I like that. That was a good move. The simplicity of your weapon/armorcrafting system is to be applauded. Many other games turn crafting into an ordeal, only pursued by the grognards and gluttons for punishment. Not GW. There are probably more things that I LOVE about GW that I have forgotten. But this is a start, to show that I am capable of doing something besides raking you over the coals. |
VanDamselx
I think we're all a little bored right now due to the fact that really hasn't been much new content since DoA went live. I think people are getting antsy and aren't distracted by a whole new campaign so the "problems" are much more obvious.
Although I do completely agree with the OP. There is rude criticism and constructive criticism and most of the time people don't act very polite towards Gaile (accusing her of withholding and making false statements), when they don't realize what's behind everything. Of course this game has flaws but I think people need to look at what has already been fixed as well as what does need to be fixed. If you look at the complete list of wants in Sardelac, most have been fulfilled. It's great that A-Net listens to the community.
I think some people just need to take a break. I find myself playing less and less not because I'm particularly angry and of course there are changes I wish they'd implement, but I'm bored.
Although I do completely agree with the OP. There is rude criticism and constructive criticism and most of the time people don't act very polite towards Gaile (accusing her of withholding and making false statements), when they don't realize what's behind everything. Of course this game has flaws but I think people need to look at what has already been fixed as well as what does need to be fixed. If you look at the complete list of wants in Sardelac, most have been fulfilled. It's great that A-Net listens to the community.
I think some people just need to take a break. I find myself playing less and less not because I'm particularly angry and of course there are changes I wish they'd implement, but I'm bored.
ensoriki
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Originally Posted by Risky Ranger
Your post is commendable and is an example of how to convey your thoughts in a concise polite manner. If other peoples complaints were done in the same such manner as your compliments it would be a much better environment and people would be more apt to listen. Thank you
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You can usually tell how even when someone is angry about something and complaining that they like the game so much, by how long they've been around.
I can say, A-net I appreciate all you've done with Guildwars. Though we all payed to play, if we payed and a few of us have all 3 chapters then people are going to feel a need to complain when things they payed for didn't happen.
Although...those who only have prophecies...and bought it 2 years ago should stop complaining.
scottyboysn
Yeah I'm sick of it. I think ANet does an amazing job. If you have a SUGGESTION for the dev team, throw it in the suggestion forum. All I see is "ANet sucks" or "ANet you HAVE to change this". Feedback is great but the way some people deliver it is horrible.
I <3 ANet
I <3 ANet
Tiny Killer
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Originally Posted by OI-812
THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT.
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Age
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Originally Posted by Inde
Well I'll pop in and comment on one issue in this thread. The problem with everyone's interpretation of this problem is that what one person considers a flame another person does not. I've seen a lot of you call someone out for flamebait on another forum user because YOU feel attacked when I can run a persons post by several people and others will see nothing wrong with it.
A discussion can be negative and not have flaming in it. Some of you don't believe that though. If it's negative and YOU disagree with it then you consider it flaming/bashing. It's only someone's interpretation of flaming that can be debated. Please do not accuse the mods of "not doing anything about this" because your own personal opinion differs from theirs. The community is restless. This happens EVERY time between chapters. It's called a "trend" and the moderators on this forum are more then aware how these all play out. Deleting out whatever anyone else considers a 'negative' opinion is not good moderating. The community wants to have a voice on issues and we allow you to have that voice. I can delete out someone's post saying "anet sucks" and be called a "fanboy site" while there's plenty of other 'negative opinions' in a thread. I can delete out a one-liner saying 'good job anet' that doesn't contribute to a thread and be called an 'anti-anet site'. Again, all perspective people.I can guarantee that I see more posts then nearly anyone else reading this thread. I read more fansites, more guild sites, more blogs, news articles and more on Guild Wars then nearly all of you. I know the overall opinion of a community. Let me stress again that a 'negative' opinion does not equal flamebait. We delete out hundreds of posts every day on this forum. We edit and close hundreds. The bashing that you all see going on... there are right now more positive threads on the front page then negative. I do believe some of you are choosing to close yourself off and that you purposely like to open up any thread that is controversial just to prove your own point and say "see all the bashing going on?!". There are a lot of issues with Guild Wars right now, people have strong opinions and express those opinions because they hope and are involved in this game. They care! Otherwise they would just bypass posts entirely. I also believe that some of you are choosing to ignore some of the problems Guild Wars has in favor of blindly following a game and it's developers. Wow, yes I know I'm being very blunt here. It all boils down to this (yeah this will probably be the closest to flaming you'll ever see coming from me) I don't mind Anet bashing or negative opinions. I believe that you are trying to send a message and I carefully weigh whether your posts cross a line i.e. insults, unconstructive one-liners, etc. I don't want to silence that. Quite frankly what I'm tired of is the whining. !!!!!! I said it. The whining about the complainers, the whining over whether a build has been nerfed, the whining because you feel Anet is being bashed. So.... there you go. And guess what, I allow that too. Because I feel your voice needs to be heard just as much as what you consider a basher or flame. |
Vamis Threen
Re: Animosity: Forums are where frustrated nerds, bored with a computer game after exhausting it (and what game can sustain several thousands hours interest to be honest?), go to vent their puerile rage. I know, I'm one.
The posts represent highly polarized sections of the community of game-players, and probably not the casual customer Guild Wars is aimed at.
The posts represent highly polarized sections of the community of game-players, and probably not the casual customer Guild Wars is aimed at.
Burning Blade
Look like complaints are not accepted by these Lengendary Defenders of Arenanet. I am sure 1-liners such as "good job Anet" or "I love Anet" would be more constructive to them than "I hate this update" or "Anet made a mistake". All these LDoA want to read are POSITIVE posts toward Anet.
stevedallas
Not for nothing... when it comes to constructive feedback vs. flaming... one of the things that pushed me away from GW is because my constructive criticism as well as my support issues were ignored.
I was treated so poorly by aNet's customer support, received such a nasty letter from their support staff, that I attempted to contact them about it. My communication went ignored. I used to save the message I received from their support and even used it as an example to my staff on how not to treat anyone they support.
I faced many of the bugs and glitches that many other players faced - the hero arena unlock bug, the issue with the online store, many of the issues that were reported to effect "some users" in update notes. Issues with accessing HM both on a character that has completed all three chapters as well as with other characters on the same account that may have only completed one or two of the chapters. The only reason some of these were resolved was because aNets users banded together long enough to post work arounds for some of these bugs. Unfortunately, the majority of these still effect my account.
How much is enough? What is reasonable and what is unreasonable? Where do you draw the line? What should we expect in the way of support? What do you do when the publisher fails to provide you with the support thats part of the license agreement? Report it to the BBB? What would they seriously even do about it?
Love of the game does not necessarily balance well with satisfaction with the publisher in most cases. My experiences with aNet have never really been positive which is unfortunate because I once truly enjoyed their product.
In my particular case, abuse is a two way street. As far as I'm concerned, aNet has earned - in fact instigated - my animosity which is why I now only use their product to keep in touch with my real life friends who are also players.
When it comes to personal experiences and motivations for the behavior of people on these sites, simple flaming may not actually be the only reason for a particular brand of commentary. None of us are in the position to even question the motivations for a thread of commentary, be it positive or negative, because none of us really know what anyone else has experienced with aNet or any other publisher.
All I can really say about that is that if you don't like what you're reading, skip to the next response.
The moral of the story that was told to me as a player is this: Buyer Beware.
I was treated so poorly by aNet's customer support, received such a nasty letter from their support staff, that I attempted to contact them about it. My communication went ignored. I used to save the message I received from their support and even used it as an example to my staff on how not to treat anyone they support.
I faced many of the bugs and glitches that many other players faced - the hero arena unlock bug, the issue with the online store, many of the issues that were reported to effect "some users" in update notes. Issues with accessing HM both on a character that has completed all three chapters as well as with other characters on the same account that may have only completed one or two of the chapters. The only reason some of these were resolved was because aNets users banded together long enough to post work arounds for some of these bugs. Unfortunately, the majority of these still effect my account.
How much is enough? What is reasonable and what is unreasonable? Where do you draw the line? What should we expect in the way of support? What do you do when the publisher fails to provide you with the support thats part of the license agreement? Report it to the BBB? What would they seriously even do about it?
Love of the game does not necessarily balance well with satisfaction with the publisher in most cases. My experiences with aNet have never really been positive which is unfortunate because I once truly enjoyed their product.
In my particular case, abuse is a two way street. As far as I'm concerned, aNet has earned - in fact instigated - my animosity which is why I now only use their product to keep in touch with my real life friends who are also players.
When it comes to personal experiences and motivations for the behavior of people on these sites, simple flaming may not actually be the only reason for a particular brand of commentary. None of us are in the position to even question the motivations for a thread of commentary, be it positive or negative, because none of us really know what anyone else has experienced with aNet or any other publisher.
All I can really say about that is that if you don't like what you're reading, skip to the next response.
The moral of the story that was told to me as a player is this: Buyer Beware.
Vinraith
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I'll also just add that I've played this game for something like 750 hours over the past 18 months. That makes it my #2 most played game of all time, and I still keep coming back to it. Anet must be doing something right.
Scary Raebbit
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Originally Posted by Better Business Bureau
BBB Reliability Report The Better Business Bureau® Serving Alaska, Oregon and Western Washington 1000 Station Drive Suite 222 DuPont, WA 98327 206-431-2222 www.thebbb.org Arenanet Inc 10020 Main St Ste 164 Bellevue, WA 98004-6056 www.arenanet.com Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record Of the total of 10 complaints closed in 36 months, 6 were closed in the last year. |
I suck at copy/pasta.
Changed it so it isn't such a page stretch, refer to bottom.
If you just want to look at a better version:
http://www.thebbb.org/commonreport.html?bid=22017235
Omega X
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Originally Posted by Vamis Threen
The posts represent highly polarized sections of the community of game-players, and probably not the casual customer Guild Wars is aimed at. |
Casual fans however can and WILL post here or in another forum similar regardless of the ultra generalizations made.
After all, in order to succeed in this business you have to pay attention the the fans as well as bringing in new customers.
magnawiz
I think Anet has gone out of their way in providing customer satisfaction. They've done a terrific job in my opinion. I think they've done the best they can in meeting our demands (realistically).