Copyrighting Skill Bar

Greyhart

Greyhart

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Servants of Fortuna

This is my first suggestion, but I really want to hear comments on this idea.

I am not a PvPer, but the main problem I see with PvP is that there is little reward for coming up with new builds. It is easier for the majority of people to simply cut and paste a build.

The suggestion is this:

Allow a player to copyright (register a build). Other players can look at the build and search for builds. However they will not be allowed to use the build in PvP unless they pay a one off fee (100g), which goes to the person that holds the copyright to that build.

This I think will encourage people to think of new builds, rather than copying other peoples. It will give kudos (and money) to those that think of good builds. It will discourage people from simply cut and paste, as everyone will know that they didn't think of the build.

OK now for the possible problems:

someone will register almost all the builds. Therefore the number of builds that can be registered should be limited to the number of character slots on an account. Or limited to a hard number per account.

Skill updates will make builds pointless. I would suggest that a build can only be copyrighted for a set period of time, either until the next skill update or for a month or so. So that the list gets refreshed and not too large.

I am sure there are all sorts of other problems with it, but I think it would make things interesting. It would also reward those that actually think about their builds rather than just look for the flavor of the month.

I've not seen this suggested anywhere else, but point me in the right direction if it has.


Edit:

OK the main problems seems to be the paying.

This I got wrong. Clearly this wouldn't work. So forget the paying for the use of the build.

Instead a simple register of builds. If people decide to use your build then you get points towards a title or something. No restrictions on the builds people can use.

DvM

DvM

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Vlaardingen, The Netherlands

Survivor Squad[SS]

so if you only want to PvP, you have to pay money so you can play a build? /notsigned, very bad idea

ValidusMonachus

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

Birmingham, England

Build Wars [gg]

Me/

It wouldn't make things interesting. It would make playing Guild Wars useless. Someone would register all the builds. I would have to essentially pay to play a GvG match. This is just too silly. I honestly can't comprehend the idea. It would even punish people for coming up with new builds when they found out it was taken by someone else. No, just no.

TedTheDead

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Sons of Metal

N/

So if I come up with a build on my own that just happens to be the same as someone else', I now have to pay them for my idea?

In sorry, but this is just not a good idea in my opinion....there should never been anything preventing me from putting anything I want on my bar for any reason. In PvP or PvE, if I have to pay someone to put a set of skills on my bar, I quit the game out of principle.

rancidgoat

rancidgoat

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

[XoO] [AX]

N/Me

/not signed. you stated all the reasons it wouldnt work, so you posted an idea and shot it down all in one post. gg.

Div

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

So all I have to do is "copyright" all the popular monk bars and I'll be the richest person in GW? Wow. What a bad idea...

Yanman.be

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

Ever thought of the fact that pvp'ers don't have money? The fact that you need money to buy a GH is retarded.

/notsigned ( seriously, what were you thinking? )

Greyhart

Greyhart

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Servants of Fortuna

Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
So all I have to do is "copyright" all the popular monk bars and I'll be the richest person in GW? Wow. What a bad idea...

Yes I suppose this is the fundamental flaw. However I did say that you would be limited in the number of builds you could register.

Well then I would modify the idea with:

Limit it to GvG, so a Guild could register one full team, for a season.

Have it cost to register a build.

Truth be told I am not convinced that it is a good idea. However it has nagged away at me. But do think that there is a need to recognize the people who take the time and effort to come up with Builds.

Henchman

Henchman

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

A cave in the Shiverpeaks

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyhart
I've not seen this suggested anywhere else, but point me in the right direction if it has.
I wonder why no one has suggested it before...


Probably one of the worst ideas I ever heard, having to pay for public information. It reminds me of that prima guide to the game which basiclly took information published in the local forums and sold it for money.

I'm registering the 55 hp monk build.
All the farmer bots have to pay me 100g each.... I'll be rich..

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

Wait, wait... here it comes:

HA!

Hey, you got one laughter from me! And that's all you will ever get.
The build template manager is there for something: To SHARE builds.

Greed is a sin, you know, mate.

Tark Alkerk

Tark Alkerk

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

In a Black Hole

less

E/

terrible...

so people have to run a warrior for example with a single different skill in order to get around a frankly stupid cost, its almost as pay as the fee for guild/guest invites

Stupid Shizno

Stupid Shizno

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2006

Madison, Wisconsin, USA

[eF]

Mo/

not to be a jerk, but please let those who do pvp as their time spent in the game to make suggestions that would effect pvp please. we already have more then enough pve people complaining and changing pvp, lets not add to the mess.


and side note yanman, you dont have to have money to buy a guild hall as im sure you already knew though, sigils drop from hoh...though it the fact you need to win HoH. and you cant GvG without a guild hall, makes you "work" to gvg...like the game was intended back when it was released.

Greyhart

Greyhart

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Servants of Fortuna

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupid Shizno
not to be a jerk, but please let those who do pvp as their time spent in the game to make suggestions that would effect pvp please. we already have more then enough pve people complaining and changing pvp, lets not add to the mess.
And I am happy to defer to those that play more PvP.

However, I constantly hear people complaining that lots of people simply take the easiest build to play and do not try and think of their own.

Perhaps the charging aspect of it does not fit with PvP. Therefore get rid of the charge.

Simply make a register of builds and if people use the one you registered it could count towards a title or something.

I merely wanted to encourage people to come up with new builds and have that recognized.

Diddy bow

Diddy bow

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2006

Jawsome!!!!!!!!!!!

looking for one :p

A/D

I thought the idea of putting your name on a skill bar because you were the quickest to "copyright" it was stupid, /notsigned for that. The people who copyright it would rarley be the real creator and people with half a brain would just make the build without using the template. The Template system would die just so people would get credit for a build they might have created.

then i saw they payment thing...

/notsigned surley its obvious why that is stupid...

viper008

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

What in the world are you thinking? This has to be the #1 worst idea ever that I've read for GW.


/notsigned

pork soldier

pork soldier

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Being the first to come up with a skill bar does not make you a beautiful or unique snowflake, playing it well does.

Bad Idea™ - let this one die.

Drakzel

Drakzel

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2007

Ring of Fire

The Drunkards Of Vabbi [TDOV]

R/Mo

I don't like it, it would be interesting to know who was the original creator of some of the most popular builds, mainly 55 monking but I'm sure alot of liars would jump to claim that title.

Besides, what about people that stumble upon builds? Mixing and matching skills til they got a combination that has been copyrighted, they should then pay that person to use a build that they re-created independently without any knowledge of its existence?

Copyrighting is interesting for people that originally masterminded the build and put it out for the public to be recognized for their hard work, but not if they get mountains of gold for making up a build. /notsigned until the payment part is removed or the idea is better revised.

bamm bamm bamm

bamm bamm bamm

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Problems I see with it:

1) There is not an infinite number of viable builds.

2) Just as your temporary monopoly/license fee idea has parallels with real world patent systems (you can't copyright an idea but you can patent it), people who come up with the same ideas completely independently of each other still get punished for not being first. Basically you shouldn't be able to own an idea, even temporarily. Not via obscurity (remember that guy who wanted to abolish observer mode?) nor ability to license.

3) What makes a build? If I switch out an utility skill do I still have to pay you? What about derivative works?

4) GW is currently going in the direction of removing all barriers for structured PvP except for human skill. This is the antithesis of that ideal.

5) I still don't know why people complain about build copying so much. GW should be embracing it. I should be able to access a gwshack/pvxwiki-like html based build repository in-game that talks to the template system, with all sorts of stats and information. I should be able to take any build I want, as should the MOBS. Lets get them in on it too, since they seem to be the most build challenged out there. Doesn't mean I or they will actually be able to use it effectively.

I MP I

I MP I

Hustler

Join Date: Nov 2006

in between GW2 servers

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyhart
This is my first suggestion, but I really want to hear comments on this idea.

I am not a PvPer, but the main problem I see with PvP is that there is little reward for coming up with new builds. It is easier for the majority of people to simply cut and paste a build.

The suggestion is this:

Allow a player to copyright (register a build). Other players can look at the build and search for builds. However they will not be allowed to use the build in PvP unless they pay a one off fee (100g), which goes to the person that holds the copyright to that build.

This I think will encourage people to think of new builds, rather than copying other peoples. It will give kudos (and money) to those that think of good builds. It will discourage people from simply cut and paste, as everyone will know that they didn't think of the build.

OK now for the possible problems:

someone will register almost all the builds. Therefore the number of builds that can be registered should be limited to the number of character slots on an account. Or limited to a hard number per account.

Skill updates will make builds pointless. I would suggest that a build can only be copyrighted for a set period of time, either until the next skill update or for a month or so. So that the list gets refreshed and not too large.

I am sure there are all sorts of other problems with it, but I think it would make things interesting. It would also reward those that actually think about their builds rather than just look for the flavor of the month.

I've not seen this suggested anywhere else, but point me in the right direction if it has.


No. Just no. The reasons you stated make it obvious why it wouldn't work. This won't really encourage/help people make better builds if they're bad at the game to begin with.

Cottage Pie

Cottage Pie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Birmingham, England

Taking Aegis

Mo/Me

*zombiefied stare*


no. no. stop. no.

spellsword

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

...this is a joke, right?

/notsigned

TreeDude

TreeDude

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Buffalo, NY, USA

Dragon Storm

E/Mo

Interesting thought. No good in practice. Kinda like communism.

/not signed

Enix

Enix

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2005

I am in a transitional period.

GRE

bad idea. there are only so many "useful" skills in any part of the game.

/not signed

Thomas.knbk

Thomas.knbk

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

besides the fact that you'll have to play PvE to be able to play PvP at a decent level (which is exactly what we're trying to move away from), the problem is that popular bars are popular for a reason. It's not like you can come up with somehting just as good. People didn't run LoD/RC backlines for the entire last month because they weren't creative, they ran them because it's the only way to prevent the retarded condition spam from para's, rangers and cripslash warriors from blowing you up. People aren't all running SoD all of a sudden because they're not creative, it's because the meta has moved again, and SoD is the best way to not die.
I'm sorry, it would just be a very bad idea.

linh

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyhart
This I think will encourage people to think of new builds, rather than copying other peoples. It will give kudos (and money) to those that think of good builds. It will discourage people from simply cut and paste, as everyone will know that they didn't think of the build.
Wrong thought leads to terrible idea.

You know why people keep copying build and don't think of new ones ? Because those builds work effectively. And of course number of good builds will be limited. It is not because people are too lazy to think any new build.

I can think of 948725789 new builds which are very original and include craziest skill combo that no one ever heard of, but those will suck and no one will use them. So copyright or not can't help it.

Vahn Roi

Vahn Roi

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2006

[HiDE]

hahaha

no

ps:12characters

pamelf

pamelf

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Australia

Lost Templars [LoTe]

Me/Mo

Totally /notsigned.

This is the worst idea ever.

Who said it's imperative you think of your own build anyway? A lot of people don't use builds, they just put together a whole lot of skills that will be useful for whatever situation they are going in to. If a build is the easiest, then there's a reason why people use it a lot. It would simply destroy the fun of this game. If you enjoy making builds that's your prerogative, but some people simply don't, and this idea would ruin the fun of the entire game.

Greyhart

Greyhart

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Servants of Fortuna

Quote:
Originally Posted by linh
Wrong thought leads to terrible idea.

You know why people keep copying build and don't think of new ones ? Because those builds work effectively. And of course number of good builds will be limited. It is not because people are too lazy to think any new build.

I can think of 948725789 new builds which are very original and include craziest skill combo that no one ever heard of, but those will suck and no one will use them. So copyright or not can't help it.
Oh well if that's right might as well close down the thread. the idea was coming from the point of view that there were still viable builds out there. And that people could be encouraged to find them.

The charging for them was obviously over zealous (a bad idea), but I thought people would still want to come up with new builds and share them for something like a title.

I don't know whether I am happy or sad that all the viable builds have been found. I suppose I am sad.

Yanman.be

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupid Shizno

and side note yanman, you dont have to have money to buy a guild hall as im sure you already knew though, sigils drop from hoh...though it the fact you need to win HoH. and you cant GvG without a guild hall, makes you "work" to gvg...like the game was intended back when it was released.
You do need money AND a pve character to make a Guild, and you need a cape to buy a guild hall.

tenshi_strife

tenshi_strife

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

in sardelac getting yelled at.

Angels of Strife[Aoc]

E/

....wow..... just wow....... you know i have had several of my builds taken and i didnt get credit for it but you know what i dont care cause guess what this is a game. really it does not matter, but hey if people take your build idea then you know how to beat it cause you made it and you can just go kick the shit outta them lol.

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeDude
Interesting thought. No good in practice. Kinda like communism.

/not signed
Ownership of ideas, constructions, etc is actually contrary to communism, but the idea is horrible. The only one who has ownership here is ANet, and we paid for licensed use. Soon we will be patenting skills and such?

/not signed

Realm of Fiery Doom

Realm of Fiery Doom

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

Realm of Fiery Doom

I actually like this idea. I mean, how much money has entered the game because of 55hp farming? About a whole ton. And how many people invented the 55hp build? 1,2,3? And what would have happened if you invented it and kept the build secret? You'd be rolling in cash while other people ate your table scraps. Seriously, if I invented the 55hp build, I would have kept it secret and I know that YOU would have too. Oh, I bet that you'll post indignantly that of course you wouldn't, but secretly, deep down, you want to get an edge on everyone around you. And I'll bet that if you invented the next revolutionary build that betters the 55hp, you'l keep it your most jealous secret.

However, I look from the other end of the spectrum. Instead, if a particular build is announced on this forum or somewhere else that proves to be sufficiently popular, ANet should in some way, monetary or otherwise, thank the person who has allowed GW players to look at their game in a different way.

tenshi_strife

tenshi_strife

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

in sardelac getting yelled at.

Angels of Strife[Aoc]

E/

you know what you could do to make this idea viable, instead of charging make it to where when when you put the build together it says originally made by such and such, they get credit, you dont get boned, everyone is happy.

around

around

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew - Diplomatic Embassy

I Have Three Pennies [Pnny] - forever in my heart <3

R/

Who invented the LoD monk?

Who invented the SP/BoA?

Greyhart

Greyhart

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Servants of Fortuna

Quote:
Originally Posted by spawnofebil
Who invented the LoD monk?

Who invented the SP/BoA?
Who knows but if they had had the ability to register it we would know their names.

Anyway I've edited the original post.

Clearly the charging aspect was really wrong. As it wasn't really the point of the post just forget that aspect.

Dougal Kronik

Dougal Kronik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Ontario, Canada

Glengarry Fencibles

R/

/not signed

Just a bad idea, try to encourage players to come up with builds any other way.

Gimme Money Plzkthx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

Just remember, the USSR failed and so does this idea.

/notsigned

Realm of Fiery Doom

Realm of Fiery Doom

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

Realm of Fiery Doom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik
/not signed

Just a bad idea, try to encourage players to come up with builds any other way.
Well, give us a suggestion then. The majority of GWGuruers don't seem to realise that just saying "/notsigned, it's a rubbish idea" doesn't help the OP, whilst constructive criticism does.

Hyper.nl

Hyper.nl

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Defending Fort Aspenwood

E/

OMG.

1. This is game content and only ArenaNet has copyright on it.
2. "Oh, now I'm gonna copyright all good builds."

/notsigned x 1000

LukeV

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2007

wow...this is very bad...

I couldn't bare reading past

"However they will not be allowed to use the build in PvP unless they pay a one off fee (100g)"

wow...wow...wow