Being called "Runner" in PvP..

I hate to burst your bubble... but Touch Ranger is far from it. BoA/SP assassin type builds are the most nooby things in the game. A toucher actually needs some competance to play properly... the sin just picks some random target, cycles 1 through 6/7 and runs off to hide. You could actually set up a macro for a BoA/SP sin and it would have a very high degree of sucess...

I always laugh at people who whine in local during ABs that there opponent should stop running off... it just gives me something to laugh at.

lol, i think i have to give that one to the guy using gladiator's defense vs a monk.

yeah, the runner thing is when someone in ta or more likely ra just run away when it's obviuos they're going to lose. those people should just use the /dance tactic and take it like a man (or woman).

kiting is something completely different (equivilant to stepping out of an aoe).

There is a difference between build and catastrophe :P

Agreed they are a bit noobish too.

yeh almost every sin todays uses the same build.

I remember a while back I was playing boon prot and faced a team with a W/Mo and touch ranger who tried to monk stomp me. I ran around in circles while my team took them apart, and after the match the W/Mo pm'd me with "stop running you vagina"

I naturally inquired about why I couldn't kite, and he replied that there was a difference between kiting (doing something useful) and running (not?), and I was running...

Well I guess there wasn't much use for me in the first place in that battle, I don't think I fired off a single heal... :P

monks tank in pvp

Haha. That's funny.

I've been that guy. I made a black wammo called Something "snowman" and loaded up with running skills and heals.

I got cornered by the dreaded fate of all runners... the laggy band death
("laggy band" is a rather fitting term for a rubber band, where i come from here in the UK).

During that match, a person who was doing the locomoton behind me told me "That is a truly horrible build" lol.
At least they took it in good spirits and worked as a team to trap me.

Wow. I joined RA just to see if this was true; I kited a dervish only to have him respond "faggot coward".

Yeah, this is definately a problem, but there's an easy solution: just don't care. It's not like their words mean anything. In the end, kiters vs. non-kiters, usually, the kiters will win. So just laugh in their face when you find them on the ground.

To come back at the touch ranger discussion, there is no such thing as a lame build there are only lame players.
I think touches are really good in AB because they got all the qualities needed to survive:
Speed boosts: u have to go from shrine to shrine as fast as possible
1v1 master: a toucher can stand his ground in 1v1 situations most of the times (when u face a person with snares u will lose, but hey every build has flaws). They can kill stance warriors very easily.
a lot of self heal: by touching he gains back a lot of health and does dmg at the same time
solo shrine capping: a toucher can solo most shrines by him self.

So if u don’t make a specific ab team build with 4 players with specific roles, then touch is imo the one of the best builds to match up in a random pug group. Ill go for a toucher in my group any day instead of a wammo.

My most memorable moment has to be when I was playing a degen ranger with pin down. I crippled/bled/poisoned some warrior while standing on one of the opposing hills in the shiverpeaks random arena and he was dead before he got to me. He left the match and spent the following 10-15 minutes ranting how he hates "sorry azz runners".

Did I mention I was standing still?


What I get the most grief for these days is using [skill]Gaze of contempt[/skill] on 55 monks or avatars, and [skill]distracting shot[/skill] on eles and necros. It's amazing how much time they're willing to spend ranting to me in pm's instead of trying to work around it.

I guess the lesson of the day is that if your build doesn't work, flame people using cheat tactics against it until they stop and try again.

Think what you will about touchers as said above they are not really what defines a noob build or the person who plays it. But then, what is a noob build? If you mean builds that work really well then alot of things should be classed as noob builds. It's the usual reaction from our very humble intelligence as humans to judge successful things with negativity.

So let's just stick with calling those people with bad sportsmanship noobs, if that is entirely necessary.

I was the dude who said 5 faction for dying in battle. I think it fits in with the role play aspect of GW, you put your life on the line for your faction and die for your faction, they should reward you.. No? In the US military a soldier is compensated for being wounded through one method or another. (I know this is a long stretch, but you get the point)

Let me define my term of runner, which by the sounds of it, is nothing like anyone here has stated...

I myself, kite almost every PvP match I'm in. Why? Because when I do, I'm 99.99% sure by kiting my opponent an opportunity in which I can take him or her down will become a possibility. This is what I believe most Kiters follow this same philosophy as well.

Example: You're an assassin mobbed by a group of warriors, you start running, all but one leave you. This one warrior is rather persistent, so you let him chase you while your energy and skills recharge. Alas, you're ready for your combo, unleash it on him and get a quick kill, now that hes completely ventured away from his allies and is unprotected.

*Kiting is a valid tactic, its practical, and in no sense a noob tool.

Now running to me is like kiting, but for a completely different reason. You and opponent go mono a mono. One on one, you and him are the last of a dawning battle and all but you and him are dead. He or she cannot beat you, he has no stance removal and your stances keep you more then safe from his or her melee attacks, your damage brings him to the edge of death. He runs like a headless chicken, and then stops when you discontinue chasing him. (Now I've experienced this many times, I've waved to opponents literally 20-30 feet away from me in game who are simply sitting and letting themselves regain) Now up until this point, he has been kiting, albeit to an extent; but this is where kiting's ugly cousin "running" pops its ugly head in. He charges back at you but once again his melee attacks and skills provide him no luck, you bring him to a small sliver of HP left again. But what now? He runs away once again. He cannot beat you, he is doing nothing practical, he is merely wasting your time. Sure enough as the battle continues and you forget about this opponent (which you may), he pops up once again. You're at a res shrine sapping every second you can against an overwhelming force, every second they spend trying to kill you is a second not spent capping another cap shrine. You finally fall to the dirt, this same opponent now over come with ego and joy believing he was the soul cause of your death, now begins emoting on your defenseless corpse.

*Running is unlike kiting because, Running has no effective purpose. It does not benefit either player and is simply a childish tool of annoyance.

This is an action which is directly linked to aggravation, he tried to kite you, failed and thus became a simple "runner". Now angered by his own lack of skill (or if he was in denial and had been flaming you, your lack of skill would be the reason he failed to kill you) he takes pleasure in feeling as if he was the true victor of this PvP dilemma. The biggest difference between kiting and running is, Kiters know they can tactically over power their opponent given the right amount of time to refresh themselves and strike back, Runners are too egoistic to swallow their pride and wasting 10-15 minutes of your time is much more worth it then falling to your blade.

My point being, if you give a faction reward for dying. A player will be much more inclined to not become a "runner", its much easier to swallow your pride when theres a dollar bill at the end of the stick. If you know what I mean.

So if you get 5 faction for dying...

What's the incentive to actually do anything?

perhaps to have the pleasure to bash in other humans?

i have to say i hate touch rangers... they are annoying and most of the time when im running from them they keep after me T.T this is one reason... the other is because melee rangers are dumb... using a bow is so much satisfying as we can see our foes die before even touching our toes...

oh well... despite that... its not a bad build... never will i use it... but its not bad... same as those R/A daggers build

"A professional works to receive payment for an activity"

Unless you are getting payed to play, you aren't a professional.

probably not even a semi pro ^^

If you're running in PvP because you know it will help your/team's cause then by all means do it. E.g. running away from a warrior so that they overextend and die. However, if you're running away and there's no chance of winning (your entire party is dead with no rez sigs and no means by which your rez sig can be recharged, your party has left, so on..) I think you should be shot.

I don't really get pissed off about much in GW, but when you're on a 9th win in RA and there's someone build to run and your team just isn't built to take them down it really makes me rage. Especially when they're like "am i making you rage?..we're nearly at droks"

Exterminate the griefers!

I recently had a Sin who was taking the fact that I had killed him three or fours times personally, chase me half way round the map.

I took him to our Elementalist shrine, and he subsequently died... awwwww.

Of course I was the noob for running away ;-)

I love people who run high damage builds that require you to be at the same exact speed as them, without them running speed boasts or snares.

Then again this is not build wars, so no one should run any skills to adjust speed . It causes an unfair disadvantage to builds who do not wish to adjust.

Thank you for taking what I said to the highest degree of literal translation.

When someone says they are so hungry they could get a horse, dont go to the cops screaming theres a madman on the lose with a taste for seabiscuit.

Payment? Other than faction, fame, points towards a title? It may not be legal tender to you, but its payment. And actually, if you wanna break EULA, you could get a high ranked account and sell it for real world money. Seems like payment to me.

My AB build can solo quite a bit of stuff, but not touchers, so if a toucher come and starts spamming his stuff on me i'll run away. If he follows me for ages that's his loss if he's chasing me for 3 minutes that's three minutes he's not doing anything to help his side, granted neither am I but w/e. Moral is :if you can't kill someone in AB run away.

runner = kiter in pee we pee

I sometimes got aggravated about someone running away the so maniest time, but then again its far more satisfying slaughtering a near dead trying to retreat foe then any normal combatant..

[QUOTE=DFrost]Trash-talking and common sense are rarely seen together in one sentence. QUOTE]

Heh agreed. Greatest moments when your a monk and you kite a war who ends up dying ultimately. GG

If thats the case.. Whats the point of fighting the other team, if not only to risk them killing you and earning faction for your death? The player base would never degrade to the point of suiciding. Maybe at the end of a match, to score 50-60 faction more, but nothing else.

My explanation, is I'm sure you've all heard of the "dice rollers" who would rather use /roll to decide an AB battle. 99% of the time their goals is never achieved, I've had them pop up in battles only to convince 1 person to leave, themselves. People enjoy ABing, its fun form of PvP despite its many flaws. Thus people will always keep on killing and not really mind dying.

I disagree entirely... Let me explain.

In AB, a team receives one point when a member of their faction kills a member of the opposing faction. This being said, it's easy to see how kiting (not running, mind you), in any way, shape or form is advantageous to one's team. In your situation, had the "runner" stopped kiting, your team would have received a point. However, you implied that the kiter had the decision to either die to you or kite indefinitely. In other words, the option of giving your team a point, or not giving your team a point. Furthermore, the time you spend following said kiter is time you aren't spending capping points or killing other members of the opposing faction, thus making this a win-win scenario for the kiter. They may not be able to kill you; they may not be able to actually live after a long stint of kiting; however, those are always possibilities, and should be followed.

There is a lot more thought put into the standard SP sin than you may give credit to:
You only get one kill every 20 seconds at best (or possibly 12 if you use expose). What's the best target to take out?
Since your self-healing is likely lacking, what's the probability that you will be able to cause a kill and still be able to get away?
What melee counters does your targeted opponent have? Can you bypass them?
Will they be able to get away before I can finish my combo? If yes, they will most likely live.
Do they have interrupts? If yes, they will probably interrupt one of my attack skills, due to their predictability in required to be chained.

When playing an assassin, I believe these questions must be answered before attempting a kill. However, a touch ranger requires a string of yes/no questions that need to be answered to determine effectiveness as well.

Does my selected target kite at all? If yes, they cannot be killed due to the 3/4 seconds of standing skill required to do damage.
Do they have snares? If yes, I likely will not be able to reach them to do any damage.
Do they have interrupts? If yes, they will interrupt your attempts at using Vamp Touch and Vamp Bite, since they require constant spam in order to be effective.

For both builds, these questions must be answered to determine whether or not you should attempt to kill a certain opponent. However, most people leave these questions unanswered, and thus, are branded as "noob", as they most likely should be, for not determining the strengths and weaknesses of the build they chose to play. Both builds are easily countered through interrupts, as well as specific counters for each build. Such easy countering renders both builds a label of ineffective.
However, there is one more question that must be answered. Maintaining the same primary class, can you make a better build? In regards to an assassin, it is very hard to create a build that can rival the power (and utility) of an SP sin with Expose Defenses. However, rangers have a lot more options. A Burning Arrow or Crippling Shot ranger grants a ranger a great amount of utility in the way of interrupts and snares, as well as survivability with Natural Stride, Troll Unguent, and possibly Mending Touch. The next best thing I can come up with for an assassin would be the Deadly Paradox sin with Dancing Daggers, Entangling asp, Shadow Form, etc. However, that build still suffers from the ease of interrupting key skills, due to the need to chain them. Though an SP sin may be easy to play, it, in all honesty, is one of the only assassin builds with a high rate of success that I have seen. That being said, I don't believe they should be put on the same, or even a lower level than touch rangers due to the lack of other options.

-Ruricu

Don't kid yourself. SP sins have *0* utility. They perform a lame, easily-countered solo-spike (which, admittedly, tears through scrubs like a wildfire), and nothing else. They cannot shut down targets, they provide no support for their team, they offer no pressure. They either kill a target, or fail misreably.

Siphon Strength is where it's at.

SS / Siphon Speed / BLS / BSS / DB / Impale and 2 optionals provides marginally less power, yet can actually do something other than kill.
SP is lame.

I play assassin and ranger in AB and get the "noob runner" comment all the time.

As an assassin I sometimes run shadow prison, and with shadow prison I am not always able to kill my warrior target. So what I do is run around in a circle after I finish my first chain and then attack again when shadow prison recharges. I get a lot of comments from the warrior I just killed like "I would have killed you if you didn't run like a p*@!&" or "P!*#! running is for noobs." It always cheers me up to hear this stuff because here I am still standing while the guy dead on the ground is calling me a noob. They also have the fun of picking me out of a crowd just so they can feel better about themselves that they killed me, but to their dismay they die again.

As a ranger I play crippling shot often. I know when I am beat a.k.a running from a mob. So I start to run to the other side of the map to start capping and half the mob decides to start chasing me, mainly those amazing wammos, I crip shoting them and continue running and them yelling their insults at me because I am a noob runner.

Erm... by any chance do you play an SP/BoA type assassin? Really, they're the noobiest builds in existance.

You will get 1 kill, almost guaranteed every 20/12 seconds.
This is AB. The 'best' target to take out is the 1 with the lowest armour or the primary monk, course the monk will survive if he's not an idiot and has anticipated the existance of the assassin.
What melee counters... you have Expose Defences, who cares, the likely hood the opponent is using Shield Bash or Clumsiness is slim to nill.
Do most assassin even care if the opponent has an interrupt? You attack that fast its not exactly easy to time the interrupt to hit.

I say again, SP/BoA has absolutely no skill involved AT ALL. You can become a pro at it after playing the build for 10 seconds and having an IQ with more than 1 digit.
As a Toucher you can't exactly catch that Cripshotter with his pants down... he can stop you no matter what. As an SP/BoA you can kill pretty much anyone in a single chain since they're not expecting it till its too late.