The difference between a harmless passtime and a life waster.

I talked to a person today who became incredible shocked that I told her that I play about 2 hours of video games every day. She called me childish and obsessed. I tried to explain to her that there are people who play much more than me, but she still thought that I was extreme.

So I asked myself: When does the game go from becoming a harmless pass time and entertainment advice, and turns into a waste of time. A waste of life, where he just throw away the best years of our lives, doing stupid things in imaginary childish fantasy worlds.

Is what we do as a hobby educational? Do we learn anything from it? Do we need to?


How much time can a person defend for themselfs for these things? I always hear people say: "yeah but im just playing more, instead of doing other crap like watching TV"!

The follow up question to this, is if course: Is it more educational to play guild wars than to watch an episode of say... prison break or the office or something?

The answer lies within you.
Is it a life waster if you are enjoying it?
What would be considered "life"? Going out and getting drunk every night and sleeping with a random person? Sitting down watching TV after school/work? Reading books?

Really, if you are still getting work and school done, who is to say what you can and can't do in your spare time? If you enjoy doing it, it is not a waste of life.

Edit: This is saying without a family. If ya have a wife/husband and kids, ignoring them constantly to play a video game is probably a bit harsh. But yeah, if you are single n all that, what you do in your spare time is your choice. Not like most people do productive things in their spare time off work.

You should of told that person to get off their high horse. Who the hell is she to judge you and what you do with your personal time? Yeah, there is a such thing as too much playing of video games, but there are very few things that are healthy if done excessively. Did that person prefer you to be more like them? If what that person said to you really got to you and is making you want to re-evaluate your priorities in life then more power to you my friend. Personally, I don't think 2 hours a day is bad at all.

As for do we learn anything from this hobby, sure. It's mostly useless knowledge but hey, whatever.

As for which is more educational, I don't worry about stuff like that. If I want to be educated on a particular subject I'd take a class on it, or read a book about it.

Well, look at it this way. GW doesn't start harping on you to take a break until after 3 hours of playing. So, in that sense, it's not a waste of time up to the 2 hour 59 minutes and 59 seconds mark. After that you a loser with no life.

Honestly though, I agree with the last few posters. If you're successful in life, you pay your bills, complete your work, and you are able to enjoy time with real friends, what you do in your spare time is of your own choosing. Whether it be reading a book, playing computer games, watching a movie, or anything else. And personally, I don't think 2 hours is very excessive. That's one movie, or watching two tv shows. At least in a game like GW you can go and socialize with people, if you call going and fighting dwarves with a pick up group socializing. That certainly isn't some you can do sitting and staring at a television.

That person you met sounds like a moron. Probably one of those kind of people who get all of their information from the Fox News channel.

But even if you aren't successful in life(most people aren't), your free time is still your own. The time you use for gaming really varies and can't normally be counted daily, especially if you are an active person half the time.

It is much better for you to be playing a video game (mmo or single player) for two hours a night than it is to watch tv for two hours a night. While you watch tv you do nothing, think nothing.

With video games you have to think out puzzles, respond to your adversary, and are actively engaged in what is going on instead of having everything played out in front of you.

Your "friend" probably spends all night gossiping on the phone with her girlfriends and gets drunk/laid on the weekends.

I don't think the TV excuse holds much water. It's like, "Well, if I wasn't doing THIS worthless thing, I'd be doing this OTHER worthless thing, so it's six of one half dozen of the other." Except your still admitting that you are totally wasting your time, and that ought to be unacceptable to you. Sometimes I regret that I'm not watching TV because at least TV leaves your hands free to do something useful.

I think people just need to be really clear about what they're getting from the game, and why. I play GW when I need to zone out; I need to zone out because I am otherwise really busy/stressed. I feel ok about playing when I know that I've got tons of other stuff going on; there's a balance. When that balance starts to tip, I know it's time to go stir something up outside my apartment.

I try to end every day like, "Well, what did I do right today, what did I do wrong today?" If I can say something like, "Well, I got a good hour and a half of (serious, non-fiction) reading in between the subway and my lunch hour, and I went to the gym, and I was reasonably productive at work," - that's fine for the average day and if I played a bit of GW in the time that was leftover, even if I could have been using that time better I know I'm mostly in the black where spending my time usefully is concerned. I like to make sure that I spend more evenings in a given week going out - to dinners or parties or whatever - than I do loafing around at home.

I don't understand people who use GW for really essential social interactions; you just can't build up the level of trust and interdependence that defines true friendship. I don't see adventuring online as a suitable substitute for real adventure, or pseudo-battles as equivalents for real trauma. If you aren't having real adventures, and real problems, go find some. That's what makes people interesting, and interesting people are better at keeping themselves entertained. I don't understand people who play when they're bored; why do anything you think is boring? There are so many interesting things to do.

Unless she absolutely does not spend 2 or more waking hours on any given day doing something unproductive, she needs to flat out STFU. Period.

It's easy for people to bash something they don't like or understand. That's just human stupidity.

I remember a long time ago I was bragging that I finally got the OST to one of my favorite games. A woman I worked with said I was retarded for buying video game music. I looked at her and asked, "So if you go see a movie and you like the music a lot, you wouldn't buy the soundtrack?" She said she would, and I told her it was THE EXACT DAMN SAME THING, and she still didn't get it. It's pointless, really. Stupid is as stupid says.

You know what´s the problem? These people still think that video game music consists of beeps and the video games themselves are the same as pacman and tetris (no offense, awesome game) of a long time ago. Shallow. And ugly. I dare to say that about half of the games that came out last year have a better storyline than any movie that came out last year.

I think the problem with people that hold that view point is they forget, for lack of a better term, "The purpose of life". With what little time we have should we not spend it in a way that makes us happy? Obviousely there is a point when it is to much, but that varies vastly from person to person.

Someone who has a family with several kids and a 9-5 job will obviousely have to limit their time more than a 13 year old kid. The moment you start pushing more important things aside is when it becomes a problem. However most people over react about these things and the best thing you can do is to remind them that its something you enjoy.

As for gaming being childish that is a very old and very incorrect idea people seem to hold onto. The average gamer is in their mid 20's.

Gaming is becoming more popular and we do live in the future now. What does that girl do all day? Probably slut it up or chat on the cell or IM longer than that.

Video games are now pretty much mainstream, just like reading a book or listen to the music. I have a full time job and my playing time now is nowhere near as much as when I was at the University. If you can keep it in mind that games are just that, something to entertain you when you need it.

Some people will never understand this sadly, older generation, (some) women/men, marketing people, the goverment and that lawer guy.....oh yeah that damn newspaper as well,the daily mail or some crap. As long you don't put games above all else and realize that there are something else out there, hot women, beers, fast car, home entertainment and a big ass HDTV etc. You'll do just fine.

The only reason to do something productive is to gain resources so you can do something fun instead. The amount of time you have to waste playing is a direct indicator of how successful you are at life!

On weekends I sometimes play 8+ hours a day...and so does my wife.

We also have friends where the husband spends 8+ hours a day in WoW and the wife doesnt play at all, needless to say their marriage and social life is screwed while ours is just fine.

There's no point in trying to explain to someone who doesnt like or 'get' videogames what the fun is and why there's nothing wrong with it. The wouldnt say anything about you watching TV for 2 hours a day probably which, to my mind, is far more 'childish' since it requires no interaction.

Video games have been my preferred choice of entertainement for years now, especially since the advent of 'reality' shows on TV I would rather spend my time relaxing with a game then watch TV. Anyone who doesnt get that is entitled to their opinion but I dont see anything childish about it, quite the opposite.

To answer your question: Neither. They're both a complete waste of time, although from what I've heard The Office has had it's bright spots. I know for a fact that I'm wasting my life playing video games. They're mindless entertainment devices, and from what knowledge I gained from them, I could've gained in half the time and in more depth reading a book or doing something productive.

I, however, am a very peculiar person who passively realizes what is going on around me, yet does not do a damn thing to alter situations for what arguably seems better. In other words, I'm aware I waste my life one minute, one hour, one day at a time, yet refuse to unlock my full potential. It’s as though I’m going with the flow of things but without a boat to navigate the waters, if you’ll pardon the basic analogy.

Do I really think that having obsidian armor and having lots of shiny titles will somehow make me a better person or enhance my outlook on life? No. I've wasted weeks of time over the span of a year playing this game, and years of my life playing other games.

But this is what I do. I guess I find it to be my little safe spot, and since I’m not intrepid enough to go out of my shell often, I stay in my safe zone often.

Don't get sucked in.

Go outside and do something productive, although I’m sure most of you are doing fine in that respect.

And you know what? Ask yourself a real question. Something to really get the mind going. If you insist on engorging yourself in video games, at least make sure your brain doesn't rot away and you become a smoldering pile of leet speak and a lazy slob who doesn't even bother to spell words out completely.

LOL, wonder what should would have said to about 8 hours a day.....

If you can pay your bills, do at least some running or workout (can only recommend that!), meet some friends, stop being a nihilistic geek (the "oh the world sucks, is full of bad people and life is meaningless, people suck so gaming is the best thing to do" attitude/excuse), it's fine whatever you do with your free time. It's important not to neglect your partner, family, friends for the game - never ever.

Going out and getting drunk is overrated (if you think you can impress girls with it you're wrong). I used to do that a lot in earlier years (being drunk not so much ), spending alot in discos and clubs. It's worth the experience but should not be a regular habit imo. Even this can make people addicted and every missed opportunity/weekened makes them believe their social life just degraded.

Let's look at typical hobbies:
Dancing
Stamp collecting, well collecting anything for that matter
Reading
Sewing
Cooking
Movies
Playing a musical instrument
Parachuting
Playing a Sport
Woodwork
Making videos
Board Games

Not many of those look educational to me, so I would guess a hobby is what you do outside of education. If you spend too much time studying or working, people will tell you to "get a life" and by that they mean indulging in a couple of hobbies.

If you spent two hours a day on any one of those things, I doubt you would be called childish or immature. The fact that you're spending two hours on video games falls into the same category. The criticism reflects on the person who made it, rather than on you. Why is playing a musical instrument, however badly, for two hours a day more moral than playing video games?

I presume from your concern that you're a kid. The correct response to the criticism is probably "Hmm, you're right, I guess I should hang around the mall with my mates, looking for shoplifting opportunities, or throwing bricks through windows..."

My own 2 cents...

I work full time, I'm married and via a hefty mortgage own my own house.

I probably play Guild Wars most days for a couple of hours a day largely to unwind from the stress of my job. I work in aerospace, and if I don't do my job right, planes fall from the sky and the press tend to get very excited. Now, I'm sure you can appreciate that this is very stressful, so coming home from work, cooking dinner and firing up the PC for some mindless char/margonite/afflicted bashing is great. If there's a TV programme I want to watch, I log out (or go AFK in the guild hall) and go watch it. Nights out at the pub with the guys, again, those go ahead no problem. As for the wife situation, well, she has as many characters as I do and is further through all 3 campaigns than I am with most - and her situation is similar to mine, she goes out to the pub with her mates and reads a truly staggering amount of books.

I'd probably say I was addicted to playing games on my computer, but I hope I've managed to strike a reasonable balance between work/social/online gaming. Let's not ignore the massive social network that is Guild Wars, perhaps with random PUGs people might not be who they say they are, but I trust that my guildies are honest with me.

I don't think that watching TV is necessarily any better/worse for you than playing Guild Wars, and probably neither is reading a book. I subscribe to the theory of 'everything in moderation' (although there have been occasions where it's told me 'you have been playing for 12 hours, please take a break', but those have only been on special weekends (and those messages just mean 'you've had GW.Exe open for 12 hours').

BdP

If only I had realized this in my years of youth. Playing video games gives you nothing, there is no real talent in there. Sure you can say you can infuse in a heart beat, but that won't get you anywhere in life. Anyone can learn that. Try picking up an instrument for example, and play it as masterfully as Guild Wars. It takes years, it is socially acceptable, it is entertaining and it's useful, you can actually make a living out of it. Or some other hobby, like boxing. You develop strong muscles and self confidence when you know you can take on any assailant and protect your friends.

But what talent do games give you? They're asocial, useless, muscle decay inducing entertainment... A system in which even the worst losers and outcasts can enjoy the feeling of, though virtual, success. And don't give me any of that crap when you say gaming is social just because you chat in TS or Vent. 90% of all communication is body language. You're only using 10% of your communication abilities.

I'm glad I'm over gaming. This forum account is the only remaining relic from my past which I won't miss even a second!

PS. TV is just as bad. And useless anyway.

Funny because I'm completely the opposite. I simply can't enjoy myself when I know I have other things to do. I play games pretty much every day for a few hours, but I won't even play at all if I'm busy/stressed. But then again I look at it as not an escape but as a competitive hobby(against both other players and myself)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with playing a computer game for 1 or 2 hours a night. It helps you unwind after work or university or a stressfull day.

But that is provided you are doing other activities aside from just computer games, including socialising with real people in one way or another!

If your entire life revolves around a computer game and you never leave the house except to work, school or shop then you have issues. Its great having a hobby and enjoying something, but if it pushes you to the point of being anti-social then its not good for you.

I know people who say to me "playing an online game is socialising", and their right. I enjoy chatting to others ingame and playing missions along side them.

But you cant compare actual face-to-face contact with messaging someone inside a computer game.

If you never leave the house, and you have very little face-to-face contact with others, you dont learn how to interact on a normal level. Your only learning curve on how to talk to others is through online chat. You dont learn about emotions or facial expressions correctly.

You will also most likely start to think that most people in the world are immature, because (and its true) most people inside online games are immature and behave in ways they wouldnt normall in person.

Most people wouldnt go to their local pub, and shout "noob" into the face of a bloke at the bar. They would get linches and kicked black and blue!

So you are more likely to see anti-social behaviour online then you are in person, because people cant be caught!

As with any hobby, it has to be well-balanced with a social life, work and education! You have to have experiences outside of the house, otherwise you end up living in a dream world where you think everyone speaks in l33t talk and acts like children.

Even if its just having people over to your house, to drink and hang-out and play games together. Its alot more healthy to have people around you in real-life then to rely on ingame chat for friends.

enjoyment. Tell me, is working all your life for a government that doesn't even work well a good life? As long as you have fun, it's never a waste.

Then why did you come back? Do you miss it afterall? Or do you just think it would be fun to post some crap telling what we can and cannot do with our lives? Your the one sounds like they have no life.

This pretty much hits the mark. As long as ur not letting it take over your life and its not harming anyone then who are they to tell you what is acceptable with your spare time.

As someone else also mentioned Gw is no more or less educational that any other medium (books, Tv etc. etc.), this is very true. Like other medium you can get fictional games like GW or factual games like Age of Empires in which you not only play but you learn about History.

I think you hit the nail on the head here with "socially acceptable". When it comes to hobbies, is there are global conduct of rules and regulations that defines internationally "socially acceptable" hobbies? Playing an instrument? Sure, if you play a guitar or drums... but I have a (male) friend who used to play the clarinet, and he still gets to hear stuff like "Can't you play a real instrument, like guitar?" Who defines socially acceptable anyway? The Cool Guys' Hobbies Guidebook?

I'm gonna sound like a Life Goes On character here, but sometimes you just have to do what you find fun, even though others might think it's not cool, wise or "socially acceptable". I listen to a lot of J-Pop and J-Rock and watch anime series, which confuses some of my friends, who can't understand the greatness of "cartoons", but heck, should I stop just because of that? I don't think so.

Now, this has gone very far from the original gaming approach. And I admit, too much gaming isn't very healthy. (I get sore eyes if I play even 2 hours straigth, which I usually don't.) But if you talk about "talent", I could add that language skills are a very large part of what gaming has helped me with. I, as a non-native english speaker (originally from Finland), have been watching TV shows and playing games all my youth. And it has helped my language skills immensely. I've always been good with languages and now I have a job dealing with translating English. So that's one point for games, but only if you're willing to learn - which of course can be said about anything else too.

I don't really know what's my point or what I'm babbling on about here. But I do know that I've had a few people telling me to "get a life", instead of sitting in front of the computer so much. And I don't even play that much - but I do listen to music, watch movies and series and work on my digital art with my computer. Using traditional, non-computer methods too.

The whole "get a life" - argument isn't even as big as it was some years ago, maybe 6-9 or so. Back then, only us geeks had a computer. Then everyone started to have one, but they still gave us geeks a hard time! Nowadays so many things are done with computers that PC use is a skill everyone simply must handle.

Well, I'm going to turn the initial statement around.
I just ended a very troublesome relationship with my fiancee.
We had been together for about 8 years and from the start had some minor problems.
Not long in the relation my fiancee started to have more serious problems.
She has suffered from back-problems on and off, causing sleeping problems and leaving office at unexpected times for me.
The past 5 years, she also suffered from panic attacks.
She had a day-time job, but when she had an attack there, I was the one that could pick her up and bring her home, since she was too afraid to do so.
Lucky for me, I have a very understanding employer, who allowed me to do what needed to be done.
The panic attacks are almost over now, with good therapy.

I can easily say that this set of problems caused me to spend more than 2 hours a day.
That also includes too little sleep, doing allmost all household things alone, skipping work or leaving early and almost destroying the little social life I had.

However, people generally do not regard this 'childish and obsessed', but more like 'mature and responsible'
I could label this "A waste of life, where I just threw away the best years of my lives, doing stupid things in real life."

As you can see, it's all in the eye of the beholder.

I'm happy that I have the possibility to play games, just to forget (for a while) about the *&^%$ real-life can also be.
I think that without games I would not be sitting here writing this, but in a total different and worse situation.

As far as the ever present "get a life" is concerned I've long come to a conclusion...

They see life as a buffet, a variety pack, etc. It's like they're searching for something and for some reason can't comprehend that there are people out there who have already found what they enjoy, or their calling, etc. They cannot tolerate doing one thing for an extended period of time. They get bored. They see you doing a lot of one thing and think something is wrong with you, when in reality it's much more likely something is wrong with them.

Look at all the greats in our society/movies/etc. Sports stars, scientists, secret agents, super heroes, political figures, millionaires, etc. These are all people who are very devoted to what they do. Yet they aren't criticized for being overzealous...

" I talked to a person today who became incredible shocked that I told her that I play about 2 hours of video games every day. She called me childish and obsessed. I tried to explain to her that there are people who play much more than me, but she still thought that I was extreme."

Dont feel ashamed at all.....and relax she is a "square" person, short minded and jealous.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game

" Known to have been played as far back as prehistoric times, games are a universal part of the human culture."

My parents and grandparents introduced me to games - like most of you - very early LOL I still play and hope to be able to play when I am 99...and even more

My father is a teacher and plays regularly to BRIDGE, a very interesting & difficult card game, he even makes tournaments:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_bridge

My grandfather was often playing card game and every sunday after high mass, he was leaving the church to meet his mates in a café....for playing cards.....

A video game is a game like all the existing others.

What about chess players and all the others gamers ? according to The Person you talked to, they are childish and obsessed. I dont mind and they dont mind to be treated such a way. We have fun......and we make work our grey cells

Dont worry, be happy and keep on gaming.....

Yeah that's me. But my work is social. I work with children(age 5-7) in an afterschool elementry thing, so I interacte alot with parents coming to for their kids each day, and I hang around with the kids too. I only work 26 hours, but its a good job. The co-workers are nice and down to earth and relaxed and the boss is nice to me.

But yeah, besides gaming I don't have any goals or hobbies(outside movies and anime). I only use my money on food and games, and sometimes a DVD. That's it.

I live in my brothers basement, in his house. I am 20 years old, and it's him and his wife that are concerned about me.

I'll tell them that I am just a loner. They tell me that video games is a waste of time, and that sitting in the basement playing all the time(or surfing the net or watching movies) when im not working is a waste of what they call my "best years".

My brother thinks im incredible weird. He does not understand why I am not a partydude, who goes out every friday and saturday, getting hammered, smoking weed, and trying to get laid.



Your first paragraph is correct in my case. I feel exactly that way about other people my age(or younger). But im not sure if that cause, is what you describe. I just dont like other people my age because almost all of them I have met are shallow people who just can't relax. Who need to drink to have fun. who would rather dance on a disco to techno music and look like an idiot chicken that is having a seizure, instead of sitting on a restaurant or a cafee like a regular non-uptight adult who dont have to be something they are not.

I like +25 aged people much better. They seem more real and more down to earth to me. Im incredible shy around people my own age, and I feel a combination more maturity compared to them, and a feel of inferiority because I cant make myself go out there and just drink my brains out like any other "normal 20 year old".



_____


I don't know. My brother is materialistic(and admits it) and he says to me: "you are 20 years old! What do you got to show for yourself? NOTHING! You don't got any social life, you don't got your own apartment, you dont have any money in your bank account, you cant play an instrument, your not good at sport, your not educating yourself reading books(which he says trains the brain. He wants me to read fantasy books instead of playing fantasy games. He says it will stimulate my brain more", your overweight, you use all your time in front of the computer. When I was 20 years old...".


I can't really blame my brother. He is really awesome and a tough dude. He got kicked out of his house when he was 12, and sent to boarding school. When he had become 16, he had already spent a year as a exchange student in Florida, and in Switzerland, so he had alot of life experiences. Our dad was a drunk, so he had to take care of himself most of the time.


I got the chance to move into his basement because he thought it would help me, grow.


Of course I tell him, that I am just a loner, and just am the way I am. I like video games. I know a ton of things about the guys who make them, and the industry, and its a big part of what I do in my sparetime.


Though I dont think that I am using GW as a social network. I never got into any good guild with many active players, never got into the pvp either, so its not a place where im hanging for friends. sure I visit some forums, which gives me a kind(I guess) of social contact, but im not blind to the fact that outside of work I am very reserved.


My brother of course things im a freak. He says that humans are social creatures, and that I will go nuts, if I dont get love, respect and empathy from friends and female partners. He says that I cant be a nhialistic monk who ponders on the world and just keeps to himself. He cant accept that I just frankly feel like being alone.


I don't get it. Why is it that unpopular choices in life, always is interputered as wrong by other people? My brother litterly went out and told me straight to mouth that he said that I should be more like other people. See how other people dress, see how other people do for hobbies and what their interests are. For example I dont have any interests in sports or cars, like most males in their 20s do. I only know about video games... and movies. I dont get that. I am me, why am I living in a "wrong way" just because im not doing what the other guys do?


But on the other hand, I do feel kind of abnormal, making a thread like this on a forum, because it suggests that I dont have any other people to talk to, and thats true. I dont. But even if I did had some people, none of them would probably be able to understand, because almost no people I have ever meet, are gamers.
Gaming is just not very big in my country.

That's a good thing, as far as I care, normal is just another word for boring, dull, nothing special, just another nobody.

As most people in this thread have said, its all about the healthy balance of real life activities and virtual ones. As I don't wish to simply regurgitate what they said, I'll move on to another point.
While it is true that participating in an activity such as learning to play an instrument is very rewarding, very difficult(and with a very long learning curve), it is not true that video games are useless.

Studies have shown(don't ask me to quote, but it was all over the news a couple years back. I'm sure I could find a source if I tried hard enough) that people that play video games have better hand/eye coordination and tend to have quicker reflexes. As for being 'socially acceptable', that's slowly developing, but it is possible to make a living off of it. There are even television shows dedicated to showcasing professional gamers (Arena on G4).
Personally, strategy games and other rts (think simcity,simtower) are great tools for thinking.

Strategy games have taught me most of what I know about military strategy, time and money management, and simple organization. Historical rts games reminded me about the past, and often allowed me to catch the games mistakes/'deviations into poetic license'. And this was all between the ages of 13 and 18, when I played 1 hour a day, one day a week during the school year. If I was lucky, I got to play more during the summer on rainy days.

Role playing games are an interactive version of the books I love to read (I've literally read more books than your average librarian.), and are great for fostering creativity. I'm mildly into role-playing, and I've allowed each of my characters to develop a minor backstory. I've also done some minor fan fiction of GW, and it was a fun writing challenge to work a person into the fabric of events GW sets out.

As for 'where the worst losers and outcasts can feel, though virtual, success', there will always be those that immerse themselves too deeply into video games. I can only hope they've got friends/family to pull them out. Those same people can't really be called losers, because if they put that same effort into any other activity, you'd be lauding them as geniuses. I've put a mere 1000 hours into GW over the past 2 years. There are perfectly normal people on this forum that can easily double that in a quarter of the time. I wish they too would find a greater outlet for their energy, but who am I to say such things when they are happy and healthy? How they enjoy themselves is their prerogative, withholding, of course, an unhealthy attitude towards it.

While I agree there isn't much good in TV nowadays, if you look for the good in something you will find it. If you look only for the bad, it will pop up too. When I see a game like GW I see a game where I can play with unpredictable people. I love offline multiplayer games for the same reason. It isn't as satisfying to me as talking to someone on the phone(just as I prefer face to face to the phone), but it is a form of social interaction. As long as it isn't your only social activity, its fine(imo).

But that's just my two cents

But from experience you cant deny that almost 90% of people ingame are immature, compared to a smaller percentage in the real world.

The reason being that a high % of ingame players are teenagers and young kids who dont know how to interact in the real world. They have no experience of speaking to real people, or they get some sick pleasure from pretending to be someone their not.

But in the real world, people cant pretend! They have to respect your feelings, and behave or you just walk off.

I do know how you feel!

Im 25 next month, and I went to University with people who were ranging from 18-23 and the ones who had just come out from college or highschool were still making "gay" comments and jokes.

Even when I was in highschool. I never liked the laddish attitudes either, but thats part of being young! But im 25 now and I drink with my mates and I talk about sex... but not in a grose kind of way!

Most people at a young age are idiots, until they realise they dont need to drink, smoke, drive fast cars and sleep around to be cool!

Most of my mates are girls though, because I dont like that laddish attitude! I dont like being around drunk blokes who want to talk about what lass you would shag! If I talk about sex, its in an intelligent way!

Its all about hanging out with the right people, with the same mentality and likes and wants!

There is nothing wrong with drinking though, aslong as you dont turn into a drunk idiot as a result of it and start being obnoxious! There is nothing wrong with talking about sex aslong as its not crude.

The problem though is that because young teenagers have trouble finding real friends, they resort to playing online games to find people they feel better around. But they arent real people.

Their some stranger, who they only know by a handle who could be lieing about who they are.

All I can say it stick at it! Being a teenager and being young, and discover who you are is part of life. You will meet people you like and dislike throughout your life, whether you be 18 or 25.

Aslong as you dont fall to peer pressure and you be yourself, and you dont feel intimidating into hiding away from society you will be fine.

Online games become a worry when young people resort to playing them, because their scare of life. Their shy or their quite. They dont know how to behave around the opposite sex, or people dont "get them".

But even if its hard, its best to try and learn and find poeple you can be yourself around. If your mates annoy you or you dont want to copy them, then dont or find new friends!

One hard lesson you will learn, is that sometimes you have to move on from people. And its better loose friends who arent a good influence, then to stick around and fall to peer pressure.

My only other comment is be carefull if you hang around people who are older then you!

If your a girl, you could get influenced into doing stuff you shouldnt!
If your a guy, you could feel under ALOT of pressure to do adult stuff to be cool!

Its best to stick more or less aroudn your own age, until you know who you are! But people shouldnt resort to playing games 24/7 because their shy or quite and cant handle the real world.

If someone feels that need, then their friends should come help them and incourage them to socialise.

behold the teenager.

Sorry I missed the top part....

...from what you have described there. I would say you do need to find a different activity away from your brothers basement and from work!

Sorry if it sounds like im agreeing with your brother.

Its great you work with kids and it sounds a fullfilling job, but your not really socialising with people your own age, or alot of people your own age.

Im sure you work around other adults and teacher, but it cant be alot compared to the overwhelming number of kids!

When I talked about having a healthy balance of a hobby, working, shopping and socialising. I also meant you need to socialising with others outside of work too!

You work because you have to, to make a wage and live. So its not really something your doing completely because you want to!

My idea of socialising is something you choose to do, to unwind and chill you! Meeting mates down the pub, or the club, or the park or having a party or even inviting people round to play games with you.

I accept your (as you call it) a loner and you must like your privacy. But it cant be healthy to have your only out-of-game socialising being restricted to a few adults and some noisy kids?

Do you not just wish you could meet the lads and go to the pub and sit drinking a pint?

I'm currently on a work placement which I finish in 2 weeks! I've been off uni for about 12 months and hardlt see any of my mates in that time.

I play GWs about 2 hours a night regardless of what im doing, but if I have the chance I would much rather be out the house.

But ive spent the last 12 months mostly in my room playing games, due to personal reason and certain friends falling out with me.,

Im at a point where im GAGGING to get back to Uni to see friends, and sit in the union and just chill with a pint talking about music and films and rubbish.

I just think everyone needs a daily or weekly dose of some socialising, away from work, away from the computer, away from the shops! Otherwise you dig yourself into a hole, into a rut and you cant get out.

Do you like the idea of spending the next few years spending most of your time in your brothers basement, or would you rather be outside given the chance?

I cant imagine you like that idea!

Well... I get up quite early, go to work for 9 hours, then get home, cook, eat, then play GW for 9 hours then goto sleep. Why shouldnt I enjoy myself for just as long as I work for?

Dude your 20 enjoy life, if playing video games are something you enjoy doing do it.

There is a balance between wasting time and being productive. If, like so many have stated, you work, pay the bills, and have free time to spare then spending a few hours a day wasting time.

We all need some down time to unwind from our daily grind. For me and most of you on this board it involves playing GW a few hours a day. It is a hobby more or less. Hobbies are time wasters no mater what that hobby might be. Our hobby is playing video games.

People who don't play video games don't get it. To them it is a waste to spend 2 hours a day playing, while it is fine to spend 2 hours of the day watching TV, surfing the net, or name any hobby.

My wife and I have friends who constantly dump on me because I "waste" time playing a game a few hours a day, but it is not the same, according to them, when I point out that he spends twice as much time surfing the net every day.

So take others opinions with a grain of salt because no mater what we all waste time in our own ways.

As long as you are enjoying it your not wasting your life.

I mean whats better in your life than fun ?

100% correct. And I enjoy it.

As for you, behold the boring, normal, midlife crisis man.

MY opinion on this..I really enjoy the fun I had playing video games, but when it comes to taking my SAT's this year i know i'll wish I studied more instead of played GvG. I guess this mentality can be applied to more than just tests.

Telling someone else what they should and shouldn't be doing with their time, and making value judgements about their life, is possibly the most offensive and pointless thing that someone could say to you.

"Computer games are a waste of life" - when someone says this, I reply
"No-one's forcing YOU to play them. So kindly leave the rest of us alone."

I want to understand just when video entertainment crossed into the 'socially unacceptable' category, while spending endless hours in the pub or in front of the TV are considered acceptable. In fact, no-one complains about other people reading Harry Potter, do they? But that takes hours, it's something you do our your own, shutting you off from the world, it's all fantasy/made-up and not even educational. So why is that acceptable and computer gaming unacceptable.

The argument "I do not enjoy this activity so other people should not do it" is just frankly so illogical and stupid it's beneath contempt.

Some things in favour of PC gaming:

- It's cheap (cost of 1000 hours of guild wars = 1 meal in a restaurant)
- Your wife/husband/family know where you are (i.e. not stealing cars)
- It doesn't affect your health (unlike beer, drugs)
- It doesn't affect your sanity (unlike gambling)
- You don't get injured (think football, rugby)
- Success in video games helps build your self-esteem just like success in any activity

People that say you shouldn't do an activity when:-

- You enjoy it
- You are good at it

...are like those idiots in the film Billy Eliott saying that he shouldn't do ballet.

How about everyone does what they enjoy and are good at and not what other people tell them they should be doing.