600 vs. 55
Captain Arne Is PRO
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackknight1337
600/smite is the common name for the holy wrath/retribution setup
go call someone else a failure lol Only one person prior to me realized that.
Dumbass failure.
go call someone else a failure lol Only one person prior to me realized that.
Dumbass failure.
Faer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Arne Is PRO
Only one person prior to me realized that.
Dumbass failure. No, I'm pretty sure we were all aware of the use of the 600HP build (Hence the way we were saying 600/Smite, and so forth). Even Coloneh.
Dumbass failure. No, I'm pretty sure we were all aware of the use of the 600HP build (Hence the way we were saying 600/Smite, and so forth). Even Coloneh.
Andrew Dunne
In the UW, a 600 is better, no doubt about it, (assuming you go with a smiter) as I have tried both, 70 damage every attack unconditional is good, and is excellent when there is only one aaxte.
However a GOOD SS could beat that, but for PUGs that is rare so people prefer to take the guaranteed damage, as most of the time it is quicker.
For normal farming I always use a 55, there is no benefit to a 600 unless you are with a smiter, and then you cant take that many enemies unlike a 55.
Basically in ToA it is for the UW or FoW, where groups arent huge and a 600 is good
However a GOOD SS could beat that, but for PUGs that is rare so people prefer to take the guaranteed damage, as most of the time it is quicker.
For normal farming I always use a 55, there is no benefit to a 600 unless you are with a smiter, and then you cant take that many enemies unlike a 55.
Basically in ToA it is for the UW or FoW, where groups arent huge and a 600 is good
blackknight1337
actually a good 600 can tank just as many enemies as a 55
if you don't believe me....well i wish i had a screenshot of the 600 i was smiting for in 3 man that tanked nearly half of the big room in foundry
its tricky but it can be done
and it is useful in many areas with a smiter, areas that a 55 can only dream of farming
if you don't believe me....well i wish i had a screenshot of the 600 i was smiting for in 3 man that tanked nearly half of the big room in foundry
its tricky but it can be done
and it is useful in many areas with a smiter, areas that a 55 can only dream of farming
ghostlyfenix
600 > 55
55 cant farm doa
55 and ss cant farm hm uw as fast
55 cant farm doa
55 and ss cant farm hm uw as fast
Pyro maniac
55 hp = solo
600 hp = duo
you can run 55 in duo, however retribution and holy wrath have no use
vice versa a 600 hp can solo, however 55 is just easier and faster (when using spoil victor or Spitefull Spirit).
600 hp = duo
you can run 55 in duo, however retribution and holy wrath have no use
vice versa a 600 hp can solo, however 55 is just easier and faster (when using spoil victor or Spitefull Spirit).
IxiRancid
I'm using both 600 (Ogden Smiter) and 55 (solo or SS partner) to farm. I began with 55 and then just for fun tried 600/Smite.
I don't make any assumptions to which one is better, but from my personal experience (please note "my personal") I rather use 600 with SoA.
It just feels safer at a few points - comparing 55/SS vs. 600/Smite - kills faster (note here that SS only kills bunched-up foes, while 600 kick even staff/wanders), can get ressed, it's a lot safer in HM (UW and FoW), with 600HP (700 actually) there is a slight chance if being stripped to recast PS and Spirit Bond, and the downside of SS partner is (with SS guildie I farm) aggro breaking the moment he puts Archaned SS on they break and chase his arse, then we wait a bit to break his aggro, return to me and what goes around..... that doesn't happen to me with 600 because the Smiter is always far away.
On the other hand, solo 55ing had brought me much more money than 600/Smite.
For the speed of killing we were just bored and tried 600/Smite + SS for some real "tough mo-fo" damage
the result was SS complaining about not even being able to cast SS properly before they all died.
But as I said above, I use them both and don't prefer one over the other. I like having one storage slot taken up by different armor pieces
I don't make any assumptions to which one is better, but from my personal experience (please note "my personal") I rather use 600 with SoA.
It just feels safer at a few points - comparing 55/SS vs. 600/Smite - kills faster (note here that SS only kills bunched-up foes, while 600 kick even staff/wanders), can get ressed, it's a lot safer in HM (UW and FoW), with 600HP (700 actually) there is a slight chance if being stripped to recast PS and Spirit Bond, and the downside of SS partner is (with SS guildie I farm) aggro breaking the moment he puts Archaned SS on they break and chase his arse, then we wait a bit to break his aggro, return to me and what goes around..... that doesn't happen to me with 600 because the Smiter is always far away.
On the other hand, solo 55ing had brought me much more money than 600/Smite.
For the speed of killing we were just bored and tried 600/Smite + SS for some real "tough mo-fo" damage
the result was SS complaining about not even being able to cast SS properly before they all died.But as I said above, I use them both and don't prefer one over the other. I like having one storage slot taken up by different armor pieces
squan
hmmm both are totaly different
55 monk set up is more for solo and 600 is for 2 or 3 men farms
but if you wanna compare it with somepopulair areas here we go
uw
600 monk is best if you go hm. smitter just stands back.
+point (very easy)
-point (boring)
if you go nm best way is with ss necro. not all 55 monks are capable to agro in a correct way (most 55 monks dont know what a 55 monk can do)
if i go as 55 monk i mostly take 6 aatxes + 3 groups of grasps in 1 pull (first room)
a good 55 monk can maintain 6 aatxes and 12 grasps
or
4 groups of smites and 8 colds
if you know that well then your a good 55 monk
Foundry
55 had no business here, he could but then as sv/af 55 monk + a famine ranger
but 600 owns foundry i can clear foundry in hm also complete the quest.
55 monk set up is more for solo and 600 is for 2 or 3 men farms
but if you wanna compare it with somepopulair areas here we go
uw
600 monk is best if you go hm. smitter just stands back.
+point (very easy)
-point (boring)
if you go nm best way is with ss necro. not all 55 monks are capable to agro in a correct way (most 55 monks dont know what a 55 monk can do)
if i go as 55 monk i mostly take 6 aatxes + 3 groups of grasps in 1 pull (first room)
a good 55 monk can maintain 6 aatxes and 12 grasps
or
4 groups of smites and 8 colds
if you know that well then your a good 55 monk
Foundry
55 had no business here, he could but then as sv/af 55 monk + a famine ranger
but 600 owns foundry i can clear foundry in hm also complete the quest.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackknight1337
actually a good 600 can tank just as many enemies as a 55
if you don't believe me....well i wish i had a screenshot of the 600 i was smiting for in 3 man that tanked nearly half of the big room in foundry
its tricky but it can be done no, your wrong. go read spirit bond. it ends after 10 hits now. apparently you missed the nerf.
600 monks USED to be able to take as many/more enemies than a 55. now they dont even compare, they only conceivable reason to use a 600 monk is in a 600/smite duo. but i wouldnt use that over 55/SS in UW.
if you don't believe me....well i wish i had a screenshot of the 600 i was smiting for in 3 man that tanked nearly half of the big room in foundry
its tricky but it can be done no, your wrong. go read spirit bond. it ends after 10 hits now. apparently you missed the nerf.
600 monks USED to be able to take as many/more enemies than a 55. now they dont even compare, they only conceivable reason to use a 600 monk is in a 600/smite duo. but i wouldnt use that over 55/SS in UW.
ghostlyfenix
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
no, your wrong. go read spirit bond. it ends after 10 hits now. apparently you missed the nerf.
600 monks USED to be able to take as many/more enemies than a 55. now they dont even compare, they only conceivable reason to use a 600 monk is in a 600/smite duo. but i wouldnt use that over 55/SS in UW. dude SoA fixed up spirit bond , moron
600 monks USED to be able to take as many/more enemies than a 55. now they dont even compare, they only conceivable reason to use a 600 monk is in a 600/smite duo. but i wouldnt use that over 55/SS in UW. dude SoA fixed up spirit bond , moron
Age
I would say that 55ing is much for fun as there are a variety of builds out there for them.You don't need a parnter in HM in other areas you can solo it at anytime.I still wouldn't mind trying the 600 out with a partner.I would say 55ing is like being an active protect Monk as compared to a bonder.
electrofish
what's the bar of 600hp monk?
Faer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
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Originally Posted by electrofish
what's the bar of 600hp monk?
[skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill][skill]Spirit Bond[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Spell Breaker[/skill][skill]Blessed Aura[/skill][skill]Balthazar's Spirit[/skill][skill]Essence Bond[/skill]
You can put just about anything in the Optional slot. Some people take Shielding Hands, others might take Mystic Regeneration, and there are even still some people who bring Blessed Signet. Personally, I bring Sympathetic Visage.
Arkantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
no, your wrong. go read spirit bond. it ends after 10 hits now. apparently you missed the nerf.
600 monks USED to be able to take as many/more enemies than a 55. now they dont even compare, they only conceivable reason to use a 600 monk is in a 600/smite duo. but i wouldnt use that over 55/SS in UW. [skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Spirit Bond[/skill][skill]Shield Of Absorption[/skill] Sorry, you were saying? darcness boy
Personally i like going 600hp more than 55 hp. Yes, some people say that 600 is bad and su*ks, but thats not true. if its hard to recast Spirit Bond when it ends, biring SoA and youre fine :P. Sure when i go alone farm big mobs i dont play 600, usually i go 105 - works fine.
Syntonic
Mantra of Resolve or Concentration is used in the optional in places with interrupts. Or you can consider echo for spellbreaker I think. I never heard of too many people taking Shielding Hands, it doesn't really fit with the build since you are trying to get spirit bond to trigger to keep yourself alive. When there's too much for spirit bond to keep up (not a good idea to spam it), SoA to help thin the crowd a bit with spirit bond. Following this line of thought, some people use frenzy along with this since it can help clear things faster. There's little use in taking blessed sig if your smiter is bringing blood is power though.
600 is easier than you might expect since there is some room for error though lag will kill you much like it would a 55. Everything else is pretty much self explanatory and any monk with experience should pick things up fairly easily. Asha Rai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
no, your wrong. go read spirit bond. it ends after 10 hits now. apparently you missed the nerf.
600 monks USED to be able to take as many/more enemies than a 55. now they dont even compare, they only conceivable reason to use a 600 monk is in a 600/smite duo. but i wouldnt use that over 55/SS in UW. 600 tanking is all about soa, not spirit bond. 1) cast spirit bond and soa 2) tank 3) when soa is almost recharged, use spirit bond immediately followed by soa Ignoring dazed and interrupts you can tank a huge number of enemies. Spirit bond is just to keep you alive in the 1/2 second soa is down (with blessed aura and 20% staff it will last 11 secs, so soa down time = your ping). With 0 ping you can tank an infinite number of enemies. The nice thing about 600-smite is that you do damage without the risk of agro breaking which can happen for 55 + ss depending on the situation. 55-ss also won't work where there is hex removal (unless you drain the mobs energy or something). And a 600 can tank is far more places than a 55. I can't think of anywhere a 55 can tank that a 600 can't.
Age
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asha Rai
600 tanking is all about soa, not spirit bond.
1) cast spirit bond and soa 2) tank 3) when soa is almost recharged, use spirit bond immediately followed by soa Ignoring dazed and interrupts you can tank a huge number of enemies. Spirit bond is just to keep you alive in the 1/2 second soa is down (with blessed aura and 20% staff it will last 11 secs, so soa down time = your ping). With 0 ping you can tank an infinite number of enemies. The nice thing about 600-smite is that you do damage without the risk of agro breaking which can happen for 55 + ss depending on the situation. 55-ss also won't work where there is hex removal (unless you drain the mobs energy or something). And a 600 can tank is far more places than a 55. I can't think of anywhere a 55 can tank that a 600 can't. The only problem with this though and that is a 600 has to have a partner in most places as with 55ing you don't except the UW. batno_mercy
1) the 600hp monk can tank an infinite number of enemies and still have place for an elite (55hp can do it with healing hands and protective hands or SoA and protective hands) which will be efficient. the 600hp monk needs only two attributes maxed : Protection Prayers and Divine Favor. If you chose the former at 16, then you have:
-unlimited tanking protection combining protective spirit, spirit bond and shield of absorption combined with blessed aura. -better heals form spirit bond if you chose the latter -you have place for Spell Breaker at 16 Divine Favor. Go /E with glyph of swiftness and you have only 5 seconds of vulnerability. Or you can just get divine favor at 10 and then put a +4 cap, then switch it back for protection,time to put up blessed aura,SoA will still be infinite and you will have 32 attribute points for your other skill. Comparing cost of equipment: 55hp monk needs -any armor (may be 1337 armor, but most people just get shing jea) almost nothing but can be up to 5k -the grim cesta - 5k -6 superior monk runes (including switching caps, 5 if you don't switch caps) - roughly 5k, depending on current prices -any +20% enchanting wand/melee weapon -5k total cost : at least 15k 600hp monk needs -you have your 600hp armor as you start the game (5 AL is best) so you don't need to waste money on armor or you can buy cheap shing jea for 15 AL still works, almost no price. - 1 or 2 sup monk runes, depends if you switch caps -about 2k - any +20% enchanting weapon (not necessarily with +hp) yakslapper goes for 3k... total cost : at most 5k (I run CoF with this equipment) 600hp > 55hp in prices to start one (excluding skills etc.) So, what more? Skill 55hp isnt a child's play you need to watch everything all the time. PS, SoA, HB. If you don't cast one of these in time you are dead meat, learning 55hp can be tricky. 600hp: you need to cast your enchantments in the beginning, then cast protective spirit, spirit bond and SoA. Then you can sit back for 10 seconds, recast spirit bond and SoA,then cast spirit bond again. 10 seconds, 3 skills, one used every 20 seconds (protective spirit) Having played both, I learned to 55hp in about one week and still had flaws, learned to do it well after a lot of practice. With 600hp, i bought my equipment, got my smiter hero, started CoF, died a few times, did the run in about 1h30, then started running people directly and it is really easy. All the 600hp builds are the same in practice, so UW went fine, so did other secret guild farming (BWAHAHA, 600/smiter/famine will not tell more XD) Well, I think that having a 600hp monk is one of the things that makes you a good monk farmer. 55hp still has it's ways, but 600 is better overall (the only flaw in 600 is that you need to have a teammate that actually DOES that damage, but it actually goes just as fast as solo.
thibault the monk
55 can tank more enemies with a little bit more survivability, but the 600 monk kills far faster. With a 55 monk u can solo places, with a 600 u must have a smiter. Also, the 600/smite is a team, 600 doesnt work without the smiter. The smiter uses vital blessing on it, so its actually more like the 883hp monk (mine has 883 health). With the 600 monk u have to use SoA, but that doesnt make it inferior, it makes it so the 600 monk can tank up to about 11-12 monsters at once. Also, the 600/smite build works better because the monsters wont break aggro and kill the smiter, while in in 55/ss the monsters are likely to break and destroy the ss. HM is MUCH easier with a 600/smite, and very difficult for a 55, especially uw. All in all i like the 600 monk much better, always have.
Age
Quote:
Orignally Posted by batno_mercyComparing cost of equipment: 55hp monk needs -any armor (may be 1337 armor, but most people just get shing jea) almost nothing but can be up to 5k -the grim cesta - 5k -6 superior monk runes (including switching caps, 5 if you don't switch caps) - roughly 5k, depending on current prices -any +20% enchanting wand/melee weapon -5k Wrong here as a 55 only need 5 superior runes where are you going to use the 6th one and at todays prices it relatively cheap compared to when I first started and they in 10K+.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asha Rai
600 tanking is all about soa, not spirit bond.
you just added another skill that a 55 dosnt need.
55: balth aura + e-bond + prot spirit + mystic regen or HB = 4 600: balth aura + e-bond + Blessed Aura+ prot spirit + SB + SoA = 6 also, stop this nonsense about tanking an unlimited number of foes. an SB can be spiked down easily if 20 hits get through between the recharge of SoA and the time spirit bond ends.
John Panda
600 > 55
end of story.
John Panda
go 55 Temple Of the damned <_<
thats an amazing farm theirs tons of places a 600 monk can farm that 55 cant i wonder how many places a 55 can farm than a 600 O:
Zamochit
It depends on your personal preference, and the type of farming you most commonly do.
55/105/135 ~ Most commonly used on solo farm runs in areas where there are no lifestealing enemys or enchant removers ~ 600 monk ~ Is considerably more efficient but is reliant on either controling a hero smiter or farming with a freind. On any "dual" farm I would almost always roll 600hp. It is just so much more efficient at what it does ~ the "Smite" doesnt rely on balling the enemys for SS, there is no "downtime" of damage dealing skills and no knockdown (unlike with SoJ)~ which greatly reduce your Damage over time ~ The fact that the "Smite" deals holy damage only makes it even more effective especially in areas with undead. Also unlike the old 55/SS ~ at no point does the damage dealer need to come anywhere near the agro When soloing I personally find 55 or 135 preferable depending on whether I am using SV or SoJ ~ I rarely run SS out of personal preference ~ In my opinion 55/105/135 ~ requires (slightly) more skill ~ Use for solo runs. 600/Smite ~ Most effective farm build currently in the game since the introduction of Hardmode.
You can't see me
Because [skill]Holy Wrath[/skill] + [skill]Retribution[/skill] > [skill]Shield of Judgment [/skill]
Asha Rai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
55: balth aura + e-bond + prot spirit + mystic regen or HB = 4 600: balth aura + e-bond + Blessed Aura+ prot spirit + SB + SoA = 6 |
a 55 with HB needs mending or even bleeding will nerf your ability to tank several mobs. And specing enough into healing prayers to get enough regen from hb is expensive. Mystic regen is better, and you need only 8 earth prayers, but thats your second job gone - no ss, sv or iw, so you need someone else to do the damage. And relying only on regen (even maxed) means you can tank at most 7 - 12 mobs depending on their atk speed.
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also, stop this nonsense about tanking an unlimited number of foes. an SB can be spiked down easily if 20 hits get through between the recharge of SoA and the time spirit bond ends.
No it can't. SoA has a 10 second recharge, but can be maintained for over 11 seconds. Without major lag, there is no downtime (if you do lag a second or more, you will have issues). Assuming you take 60 dmg a hit, it will take 12 hits to get SoA absorbing all damage, which means you take 360 damage or about half your health. Spirit bond will cover that. Its clear you have no idea what your talking about coleneh, so before you keep arguing, take 10 minutes and try it out for yourself. Another important advantage of 600 tanks is they can work in interrupt heavy or knockdown heavy areas using [skill]Mantra of resolve[/skill] or [skill]Fleeting Stability[/skill].
Coloneh
a 55 can use either of those skills. and if you dont understand how time works, i really dont feel like this discussion is worth my time.
Zamochit
Also with mystic regeneration a "55hp" no longer needs to spec into healing prayers for mending and healing breeze ~ this effectively leaves one slot free which means you can chain SoA and shielding hands ~ when doing this I usually run 105 or 135 ~ This enables you to tank a HUGE amount of enemys solo
Age
What is this 135 build I hear about in here?
Zamochit
Basicly the same as a 105 build but you use an offhand or staff with +30hp ~ it allows a little more leeway with regards to degen.
Faer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
an SB can be spiked down easily if 20 hits get through between the recharge of SoA and the time spirit bond ends.
If that happens...
batno_mercy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
Wrong here as a 55 only need 5 superior runes where are you going to use the 6th one and at todays prices it relatively cheap compared to when I first started and they in 10K+.
5 runes = 1 on every peace of armor
6 or 7 runes = 1 on every peace of armor + optional smite or divine favor caps Let me explain: 4 of each rune on the normal chest, arms, pants and boots 1 cap with + 1 smiting (for those not-so-efficient SoJ build) and any superior rune (i usually take divine favor on it, doesnt matter at all since you will have a smiting rune already, as they are cheapest) 1 cap with +1 protection prayers (for pure tank builds as in [Shield Of Absorption] and [Shielding Hands] ) 1 cap with +1 divine favor that you put on every time you cast spell breaker and every time you cast blessed aura. Gives 2% more on enchantments. ***REALLY OPTIONAL*** 1 cap with +1 healing prayers for you to reach +3hp regen from mending and not having to boost ur attributes all the way. As in different situations, you will use these caps, then the costs of these runes add up. You can manage without these headgears, but you can do better with them. So basically if you have a normal 55hp monk, you have 5 runes and if you have a fully equipped 55hp monk, you have 8 runes on 4 armors and 4 headgears. WARNING, LOTS OF TEXT U CAN SKIP TO LAST PARAGRAPH IF U DONT WANT TO ARGUE. If you do want to argue that 55hp > 600hp, then read the big block  To solve this tanking issue completely, I did a calculation : do you die if you have 600 health and you manage to cast SoA on full health and not cast spirit bond afterwards, even with lots of enemies attacking you (with PS on)? The thing is a bit more complicated but it is something in the lines of: For 600 hitpoints: 600 - E(600/10 -5*1) - E(600/10 -5*(1+1)) = 270hp, 12 hits For 700 hitpoints: 700 - E(700/10 -5*1) - E(700/10 -5*(1+1)) = 200hp, 14 hits For 900 hitpoints: 900 - E(900/10 -5*1) - E(900/10 -5*(1+1)) = 135hp, 18 hits 900 hitpoints is the grand max that a 600hp monk can achieve, given that he has eaten a + health consumable and has +10% morale boost. That's why 600hp can't farm areas with symbiosis, at higher hitpoints, the monk just dies even with SoA active. Considering a 600hp situation,you have to be hit 22 times if you manage to cast SoA so u die. That means, that aggroing stuff that can dish out 22 packs of 60+ damage in 2 seconds means that you are a dead monk. But 22 packs of this? Do you think that a 55hp can tank 21 packs? The answer is NO from personal experience. If you are regularly dealt 10 packs (PS) + 8 packs (20 hitpoints regenned per second * 2/ the damage you take) you will DIE. So guess 22 packs > 18 packs on one hand, meaning u survive 4 more hits over 2 seconds. If you have SoA on at 600 health, no matter how many your enemies will be, they CANT damage you to 0 hp, actually, if you cast spirit bond just after the cast of SoA, then you will lose the pathetic sum of 15 hitpoints during the whole SoA duration. What every 600hp does is (considering that SoA recarges 1 sec after it ends): As SoA ends, w8 1/2 second, cast SB When SoA recharges after 1/2 second, cast SoA w8 for SB to recharge (1/2 second left) then put it on. 2 secs of leeway, 9 secs of heaven. Most enemies die during the second SoA. After all calculations, with the 600hp you die in two occasions, when SB doesnt trigger ( dmg < 60 ) or when you are dealt more than 11 dmg packs per second. Thats 3 groups of mobs in HM. Ive never seen a 55hp tank 2 groups of mobs in HM without other protection than SB + 10hp regeneration. An interesting point which noone came up with is: What about a 13hp monk? In terms of tanking, it beats the 600hp monk, but it isnt permanent  My opinion is still that 600hp > 55hp in most purposes. Give me a solo 55hp run that makes more cash than a regular 2.5k per person * 6 = 15k every 30 mins (raw cash, other good drops too, goes to 20k) in CoF and I will admit that 55hp is better than 600hp in terms of income. These are all numbers that prove why 600 > 55. If you read it all, thanks. I'm going to fetch a spoon to get my eyes off the floor after staring too much at the screen.
Age
Quote:
Originally Posted by batno_mercy
5 runes = 1 on every peace of armor
6 or 7 runes = 1 on every peace of armor + optional smite or divine favor caps Let me explain: 4 of each rune on the normal chest, arms, pants and boots 1 cap with + 1 smiting (for those not-so-efficient SoJ build) and any superior rune (i usually take divine favor on it, doesnt matter at all since you will have a smiting rune already, as they are cheapest) 1 cap with +1 protection prayers (for pure tank builds as in [Shield Of Absorption] and [Shielding Hands] ) 1 cap with +1 divine favor that you put on every time you cast spell breaker and every time you cast blessed aura. Gives 2% more on enchantments. ***REALLY OPTIONAL*** 1 cap with +1 healing prayers for you to reach +3hp regen from mending and not having to boost ur attributes all the way. As in different situations, you will use these caps, then the costs of these runes add up. You can manage without these headgears, but you can do better with them. So basically if you have a normal 55hp monk, you have 5 runes and if you have a fully equipped 55hp monk, you have 8 runes on 4 armors and 4 headgears. WARNING, LOTS OF TEXT U CAN SKIP TO LAST PARAGRAPH IF U DONT WANT TO ARGUE. If you do want to argue that 55hp > 600hp, then read the big block To solve this tanking issue completely, I did a calculation : do you die if you have 600 health and you manage to cast SoA on full health and not cast spirit bond afterwards, even with lots of enemies attacking you (with PS on)? The thing is a bit more complicated but it is something in the lines of: For 600 hitpoints: 600 - E(600/10 -5*1) - E(600/10 -5*(1+1)) = 270hp, 12 hits For 700 hitpoints: 700 - E(700/10 -5*1) - E(700/10 -5*(1+1)) = 200hp, 14 hits For 900 hitpoints: 900 - E(900/10 -5*1) - E(900/10 -5*(1+1)) = 135hp, 18 hits 900 hitpoints is the grand max that a 600hp monk can achieve, given that he has eaten a + health consumable and has +10% morale boost. That's why 600hp can't farm areas with symbiosis, at higher hitpoints, the monk just dies even with SoA active. Considering a 600hp situation,you have to be hit 22 times if you manage to cast SoA so u die. That means, that aggroing stuff that can dish out 22 packs of 60+ damage in 2 seconds means that you are a dead monk. But 22 packs of this? Do you think that a 55hp can tank 21 packs? The answer is NO from personal experience. If you are regularly dealt 10 packs (PS) + 8 packs (20 hitpoints regenned per second * 2/ the damage you take) you will DIE. So guess 22 packs > 18 packs on one hand, meaning u survive 4 more hits over 2 seconds. If you have SoA on at 600 health, no matter how many your enemies will be, they CANT damage you to 0 hp, actually, if you cast spirit bond just after the cast of SoA, then you will lose the pathetic sum of 15 hitpoints during the whole SoA duration. What every 600hp does is (considering that SoA recarges 1 sec after it ends): As SoA ends, w8 1/2 second, cast SB When SoA recharges after 1/2 second, cast SoA w8 for SB to recharge (1/2 second left) then put it on. 2 secs of leeway, 9 secs of heaven. Most enemies die during the second SoA. After all calculations, with the 600hp you die in two occasions, when SB doesnt trigger ( dmg < 60 ) or when you are dealt more than 11 dmg packs per second. Thats 3 groups of mobs in HM. Ive never seen a 55hp tank 2 groups of mobs in HM without other protection than SB + 10hp regeneration. An interesting point which noone came up with is: What about a 13hp monk? In terms of tanking, it beats the 600hp monk, but it isnt permanent My opinion is still that 600hp > 55hp in most purposes. Give me a solo 55hp run that makes more cash than a regular 2.5k per person * 6 = 15k every 30 mins (raw cash, other good drops too, goes to 20k) in CoF and I will admit that 55hp is better than 600hp in terms of income. These are all numbers that prove why 600 > 55. If you read it all, thanks. I'm going to fetch a spoon to get my eyes off the floor after staring too much at the screen. What I said is right if you want to debate it more then I suggest you bring Sno,Tsunami Rain and the person who wrote up the guide on the main site.You only need 5 Superior runes I think is is Cerb who wrote it.There is only 1 variation of the 600 but more of the 55 and not just Monk as there N/Mo,/E/Mo and Me/Mo. Here is the Guide 55-Monk Guide by Cerb batno_mercy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
Here is the Guide 55-Monk Guide by Cerb |
Here is what what Cerb said (I bolded and underlined)
Quote:
I highly recommand you place your four different runes on your chest, arm, leg and foot designs, and the doubled one on your scalp (it’ll help if you have to change the scalp).
Right now, if I took Shield of Judgement and had smiting prayers as my highest attribute, I’d use a +1 Smiting Prayers scalp with a superior divine favor rune (cheapest on market), and I’d upgrade my chest, arm, leg and foot designs with healing prayers, protection prayers, smiting prayers and divine favor superior runes. Get what I mean? It is down to personal favor. Even with 5 superior runes, 55hp is still more expensive than 600hp.
When i use smiting SoJ builds i always get the +1 smiting one. Much easier. Or for example. You need 14 DF so your SoA lasts full recharge duration with Blessed Aura. that means 11 DF raw. Why do it 11 when at the beginning you can get 10 DF and then switch to a Divine Favor headpiece? Thanks for reading it whole btw, I'll try to PM Tsunami Rain and ask his opinion after New Year.
Age
Quote:
Originally Posted by batno_mercy
I totally agree with you on the no-variations part. Still, 600 is more effective on a monk (remember the part of the forum we are in). 55hp can be very broad, but still unable to cope with the mindwhopping record of 600hp farmable areas.
Here is what what Cerb said (I bolded and underlined)
It is down to personal favor. Even with 5 superior runes, 55hp is still more expensive than 600hp.
When i use smiting SoJ builds i always get the +1 smiting one. Much easier. Or for example. You need 14 DF so your SoA lasts full recharge duration with Blessed Aura. that means 11 DF raw. Why do it 11 when at the beginning you can get 10 DF and then switch to a Divine Favor headpiece? Thanks for reading it whole btw, I'll try to PM Tsunami Rain and ask his opinion after New Year. I do recall in that guide that Cerb said about just changing your attributes around and at 15 instead of 16 is still a huge change.I would only have to head pieces if I did this one for smiting and devine favour for SB.You only need 1 in heal and protect in the 55 build.I have several Mo/X 55 builds and I have farmed in hard mode.The 600 may have the 55 beat in the EoTN dungeons but you do need the smiter partner to come along with you.The 600 can not farm in NM where most 55s can.
The 55 by todays prices is relatively cheap from 1.5 years ago when it was really popular as for Monks only those being /W.It is what gave Mo/W a bad name.The only place a 55 needs a partner is in the UW other than that they can solo.
Here is what what Cerb said (I bolded and underlined)
It is down to personal favor. Even with 5 superior runes, 55hp is still more expensive than 600hp.
When i use smiting SoJ builds i always get the +1 smiting one. Much easier. Or for example. You need 14 DF so your SoA lasts full recharge duration with Blessed Aura. that means 11 DF raw. Why do it 11 when at the beginning you can get 10 DF and then switch to a Divine Favor headpiece? Thanks for reading it whole btw, I'll try to PM Tsunami Rain and ask his opinion after New Year. I do recall in that guide that Cerb said about just changing your attributes around and at 15 instead of 16 is still a huge change.I would only have to head pieces if I did this one for smiting and devine favour for SB.You only need 1 in heal and protect in the 55 build.I have several Mo/X 55 builds and I have farmed in hard mode.The 600 may have the 55 beat in the EoTN dungeons but you do need the smiter partner to come along with you.The 600 can not farm in NM where most 55s can.
The 55 by todays prices is relatively cheap from 1.5 years ago when it was really popular as for Monks only those being /W.It is what gave Mo/W a bad name.The only place a 55 needs a partner is in the UW other than that they can solo.
cerb
Hola guys
Talkin' bout me are we? :P
I started playing GW again this week, bought NF and EOTN... and of course I went to UW
I didn't get to try hard mode yet, but if anyone cares, I took some pics of a nice build I've been playing with for the standard Monk / Necro 2-men run. I still prefer 55/SS over 600 hp/bonder combo, I'll let these screenshots speak for themselves:
I used to prone Monk/Warrior over anything else back when I wrote my guides because Spirit Bond took 1/4 to cast and didn't expire after 10 hits. However now that it isn't a reliable solution anymore and SoA casts in 1 second, interrupts become a problem again, hence Mantra of Resolve.
Let's get back on topic though: 55 vs 600. I *think* monsters do not flee from damage caused by HW/Retribu in HM. Don't bash me if I'm wrong, I have been away from the game for over a year and just came back a couple days ago. But if that is the case, I would prefer 600 for HM, and 55 for normal mode, for UW anyway. A good SS and a good 55 will always be faster than a 600/Bonder team and clear quests much faster as well. (I sooo don't wanna try Ice King/Escort of Souls/Unwanted Guests with a bonder, they would take forever)
Talkin' bout me are we? :P
I started playing GW again this week, bought NF and EOTN... and of course I went to UW
I didn't get to try hard mode yet, but if anyone cares, I took some pics of a nice build I've been playing with for the standard Monk / Necro 2-men run. I still prefer 55/SS over 600 hp/bonder combo, I'll let these screenshots speak for themselves:
I used to prone Monk/Warrior over anything else back when I wrote my guides because Spirit Bond took 1/4 to cast and didn't expire after 10 hits. However now that it isn't a reliable solution anymore and SoA casts in 1 second, interrupts become a problem again, hence Mantra of Resolve.
Let's get back on topic though: 55 vs 600. I *think* monsters do not flee from damage caused by HW/Retribu in HM. Don't bash me if I'm wrong, I have been away from the game for over a year and just came back a couple days ago. But if that is the case, I would prefer 600 for HM, and 55 for normal mode, for UW anyway. A good SS and a good 55 will always be faster than a 600/Bonder team and clear quests much faster as well. (I sooo don't wanna try Ice King/Escort of Souls/Unwanted Guests with a bonder, they would take forever)
manitoba1073
lol you guys arguing over which is better is almost to funny.
Ill solve it all for you so Faer can close this sillyness.
They are the same. One is better in some areas than the other and vise versa.
But for those that think a 55 cant put out that much damage just have no clue about using one.
Ill solve it all for you so Faer can close this sillyness.
They are the same. One is better in some areas than the other and vise versa.
But for those that think a 55 cant put out that much damage just have no clue about using one.
batno_mercy
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerb
Hola guys
Talkin' bout me are we? :P
I started playing GW again this week, bought NF and EOTN... and of course I went to UW
I didn't get to try hard mode yet, but if anyone cares, I took some pics of a nice build I've been playing with for the standard Monk / Necro 2-men run. I still prefer 55/SS over 600 hp/bonder combo, I'll let these screenshots speak for themselves:
I used to prone Monk/Warrior over anything else back when I wrote my guides because Spirit Bond took 1/4 to cast and didn't expire after 10 hits. However now that it isn't a reliable solution anymore and SoA casts in 1 second, interrupts become a problem again, hence Mantra of Resolve.
Let's get back on topic though: 55 vs 600. I *think* monsters do not flee from damage caused by HW/Retribu in HM. Don't bash me if I'm wrong, I have been away from the game for over a year and just came back a couple days ago. But if that is the case, I would prefer 600 for HM, and 55 for normal mode, for UW anyway. A good SS and a good 55 will always be faster than a 600/Bonder team and clear quests much faster as well. (I sooo don't wanna try Ice King/Escort of Souls/Unwanted Guests with a bonder, they would take forever) This time i totally agree. The point we were arguing about with Age was if you needed 5 or more superior runes for 55hp, hence making it more expensive than 600hp. It is true, when I made my 55hp, the runes were about 3k each. Now they are about 1k each. It is not something that a player that has farmed a bit before can't afford. It may scare of fresh volunteers though.
To Cerb : Monsters in HM dont take Retibution/wrath for AoE damage, so they don't flee. But once they hit less than 50% they switch so no more than 3 can be on the same target. This was one of the things that greately influenced my decision to tank with OF ele and not monk, just aggro everything like you did in those pictures and laugh (the new skill glyph of swiftness makes OF constant).
It is true that NM is better for 55hp. And ofc, from a farming point of view, the HM drops are better than the NM ones (more golds,but same ecto drop chance for example). But the serious downside of UW 600hp is that the caster mobs dont do almost ANY damage(makes them a pain to kill with Retribution/Wrath, especially coldfires).
There are good points in 55hp , like not having to take 3 skills (SB + PS + SoA). But only two like Cerb did, but imagine that mobs in UW had Life Transfer + Life Syphon + some conditions. The bane of 55hp (and even sometimes 105hp) is extreme degen, 600hp has enough health to cope with it.
All is down to personal preference and what you would like to farm first as in CoF or 55hp NM UW. But once you get experienced enough with one, i suppose that you would definetely try the other and learn it (3 sets of armor lol... Why am I laughing? My monk has a bag entirely filled with armor sets lol).
As a matter of fact, beginners would most likely go 55hp because they would not have unlocked HM.
Well, I'm tired of arguing lol. 55hp wins in the UW, but for most places I go 600hp with a smiter and/or a famine partner like in Arborstone HM or other similar areas (DoA for example)
Talkin' bout me are we? :P
I started playing GW again this week, bought NF and EOTN... and of course I went to UW
I didn't get to try hard mode yet, but if anyone cares, I took some pics of a nice build I've been playing with for the standard Monk / Necro 2-men run. I still prefer 55/SS over 600 hp/bonder combo, I'll let these screenshots speak for themselves:
I used to prone Monk/Warrior over anything else back when I wrote my guides because Spirit Bond took 1/4 to cast and didn't expire after 10 hits. However now that it isn't a reliable solution anymore and SoA casts in 1 second, interrupts become a problem again, hence Mantra of Resolve.
Let's get back on topic though: 55 vs 600. I *think* monsters do not flee from damage caused by HW/Retribu in HM. Don't bash me if I'm wrong, I have been away from the game for over a year and just came back a couple days ago. But if that is the case, I would prefer 600 for HM, and 55 for normal mode, for UW anyway. A good SS and a good 55 will always be faster than a 600/Bonder team and clear quests much faster as well. (I sooo don't wanna try Ice King/Escort of Souls/Unwanted Guests with a bonder, they would take forever) This time i totally agree. The point we were arguing about with Age was if you needed 5 or more superior runes for 55hp, hence making it more expensive than 600hp. It is true, when I made my 55hp, the runes were about 3k each. Now they are about 1k each. It is not something that a player that has farmed a bit before can't afford. It may scare of fresh volunteers though.
To Cerb : Monsters in HM dont take Retibution/wrath for AoE damage, so they don't flee. But once they hit less than 50% they switch so no more than 3 can be on the same target. This was one of the things that greately influenced my decision to tank with OF ele and not monk, just aggro everything like you did in those pictures and laugh (the new skill glyph of swiftness makes OF constant).
It is true that NM is better for 55hp. And ofc, from a farming point of view, the HM drops are better than the NM ones (more golds,but same ecto drop chance for example). But the serious downside of UW 600hp is that the caster mobs dont do almost ANY damage(makes them a pain to kill with Retribution/Wrath, especially coldfires).
There are good points in 55hp , like not having to take 3 skills (SB + PS + SoA). But only two like Cerb did, but imagine that mobs in UW had Life Transfer + Life Syphon + some conditions. The bane of 55hp (and even sometimes 105hp) is extreme degen, 600hp has enough health to cope with it.
All is down to personal preference and what you would like to farm first as in CoF or 55hp NM UW. But once you get experienced enough with one, i suppose that you would definetely try the other and learn it (3 sets of armor lol... Why am I laughing? My monk has a bag entirely filled with armor sets lol).
As a matter of fact, beginners would most likely go 55hp because they would not have unlocked HM.
Well, I'm tired of arguing lol. 55hp wins in the UW, but for most places I go 600hp with a smiter and/or a famine partner like in Arborstone HM or other similar areas (DoA for example)
cerb
Quote:
Originally Posted by batno_mercy
It is true, when I made my 55hp, the runes were about 3k each. Now they are about 1k each.
When I started (in prophecies) runes were 20k each :S I think even higher before that, haha