I think the skill Edge of Extinction(EoE) is broken. It works fine in PvE where there is more than one race, but its working in PvP is just an exploit because there is only one playable race. When used its outcome is totally unpredictable which is unlike any other skill in Guild Wars. People use it as a wildcard to make for lack of skill in terms of build/players. When used EoE can introduce a lot of randomness to the outcome of a match, especially in HoH where it gets so cramped in the end. I have seen too many skilled teams who looked like they were close to winning loose suddenly because of EoE. I Hope Anet takes notice of this and fixes it.
Like to hear more comments on it. Thank You.
~gotenks
Edge of Extinction broken?
gotenks
Medion
I don't think it's broken, if those skilled teams were really good at PvP, they should have recognized the other team's tactic and killed the EoE.
Besides, there is not only 1 type of creature.
Humans
Pets
Bone Horrors
Bone Fiends
maybe even more which i just don't know.
Besides, there is not only 1 type of creature.
Humans
Pets
Bone Horrors
Bone Fiends
maybe even more which i just don't know.
gotenks
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Originally Posted by Medion
I don't think it's broken, if those skilled teams were really good at PvP, they should have recognized the other team's tactic and killed the EoE..
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Originally Posted by Medion
Besides, there is not only 1 type of creature.
Humans Pets Bone Horrors Bone Fiends maybe even more which i just don't know. |
Manic Smile
How is this an exploit?
The skill does exactly what it says it does...people are always salty when they lose, and it doesn't matter how much better the losing team thought they were then then team using EoE...deal.
The skill does exactly what it says it does...people are always salty when they lose, and it doesn't matter how much better the losing team thought they were then then team using EoE...deal.
Siliconwafer
However, it DOES hurt when EoE kills you when you win (because upon victory, everyone who doesn't win, dies), often not allowing the winning team to open the chest upon a HoH victory. That should be something easy to fix, and I would think be perfectly reasonable to do so.
It does throw up the place a bit, and that's what EoE is supposed to do (and in ideal cases, create a chain reaction of dying players). If it were broken, everyone would be running EoE bombs or something of the sort. I think it's alright the way it is.
It does throw up the place a bit, and that's what EoE is supposed to do (and in ideal cases, create a chain reaction of dying players). If it were broken, everyone would be running EoE bombs or something of the sort. I think it's alright the way it is.
Medion
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You obviously did not understand what I wrote. The "tactic" itself is an exploit my friend |
I mean, that would be like saying that you can't use meteor shower because it kills people!
It's not like the skill does anything else then what it says in its description.
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Ellix Cantero
EOE is funny. I usually laugh when an entire team gets wiped out by it, even if it's mine and we're in the HoH (happened twice in a row the other day).
gotenks
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Originally Posted by Ellix Cantero
EOE is funny. I usually laugh when an entire team gets wiped out by it, even if it's mine and we're in the HoH (happened twice in a row the other day).
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Lets Imagine that they have the finals of Guild Wars championship in the same format as HoH or something similar and in the end something like what you mentioned happens. Can you really say that the winning team did it with skill? Will the winning team after such a match really be world champions? Think about it
Ellix Cantero
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Originally Posted by gotenks
Lets Imagine that they have the finals of Guild Wars championship in the same format as HoH or something similar and in the end something like what you mentioned happens. Can you really say that the winning team did it with skill? Will the winning team after such a match really be world champions? Think about it
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Manic Smile
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Originally Posted by gotenks
Thats exactly my point. Where's the skill here? In my opinion when you PvP race does not matter as we only have humans as an availble option. Listen to what I am saying please. There are no races in PvP only Teams. EoE applies a PvE aspect of the game wrongly to PvP.
Lets Imagine that they have the finals of Guild Wars championship in the same format as HoH or something similar and in the end something like what you mentioned happens. Can you really say that the winning team did it with skill? Will the winning team after such a match really be world champions? Think about it |
Ellix Cantero
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Originally Posted by Manic Smile
*cough* IWAY *cough*
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KamikazeChicken
I can't believe someone is talking about a corrupt tactic in HoH. EoE is as decent a tactic as running Iway, Flareway, Ranger Spike, etc. Woo hoo, Iway sure takes a lot of skill, but that EoE is an exploit! 
Should I take a stab in the dark and say you were on the losing end of a Math EoE?
Should I take a stab in the dark and say you were on the losing end of a Math EoE?
Mystical
The damage from EoE is not unpredictable. It doen't just target what race the dying creature is, but also which class. For example an Elementalist dies, all creatures of the same race and have Elementalist in thier profession (seconday counts) take damage.
Ajora
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Originally Posted by Mystical
The damage from EoE is not unpredictable. It doen't just target what race the dying creature is, but also which class. For example an Elementalist dies, all creatures of the same race and have Elementalist in thier profession (seconday counts) take damage.
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EoE is bugged, however. Somewhere it mentioned that Pets are a race? Nope. Pets, Ghostly Hero, Priests, are clumped into a race called 'Allies'. Don't believe me? Kill a pet under EoE and watch the Ghostly Hero take damage. Now if I could only get my Pet EoE bomb to work in HoH..oh boy.
dont feel no pain
hmmm i never done EOE bomb in tombs before , cant u just counter it with healing seed
M3lk0r
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Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken
I can't believe someone is talking about a corrupt tactic in HoH. EoE is as decent a tactic as running Iway, Flareway, Ranger Spike, etc. Woo hoo, Iway sure takes a lot of skill, but that EoE is an exploit!
Should I take a stab in the dark and say you were on the losing end of a Math EoE? |
or whatever they say when you totaly agree and stuff.....
Ajora
Healing Seed, Leech Sigging the EoE from being dropped, killing the Edge heck even a cleverly timed Heal Party can make you survive an EoE bomb. It's not overpowered, not an exploit, it's just a really funny tactic that when it works it makes you chuckle.
gotenks
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Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken
I can't believe someone is talking about a corrupt tactic in HoH. EoE is as decent a tactic as running Iway, Flareway, Ranger Spike, etc. Woo hoo, Iway sure takes a lot of skill, but that EoE is an exploit!
Should I take a stab in the dark and say you were on the losing end of a Math EoE? |
Eder
You're suggesting that EoE is broken in PvP because there's no way to avoid having it affect ALL players at a time since everyone can only play humans... but I don't think that argument holds much water at all.
For starters, the skill does just what the description says... you may think that it "takes a PvE concept and applies it to PvP", but you must realize that this distinction was also created by you.
In PvP there are also different types of creatures involved that effectively take part in the matches and may change their outcomes... and even if no player is *directly* controlling them, taking advantage of pets or minions does require a player's skill. So, I think that most people would agree that "different types of creatures" is *not* a PvE-only concept.
To sum it up, there's nothing wrong with the skill per se until someone shows up and says "hey, different types of creatures is a PvE-only concept!" (which, at any rate, isn't true).
And finally, "It can't be avoided, so it must be nerfed!" is just as bad as "It's counterable, so it doesn't need nerfing!" - IMHO, you can't really say anything about wheter the skill is broken or not based simply on how avoidable/counterable it is... so the fact that all players are forced to play humans in PvP and therefore are doomed to be all affected by EoE all at the same time isn't really enough to say the skill is broken.
For starters, the skill does just what the description says... you may think that it "takes a PvE concept and applies it to PvP", but you must realize that this distinction was also created by you.
In PvP there are also different types of creatures involved that effectively take part in the matches and may change their outcomes... and even if no player is *directly* controlling them, taking advantage of pets or minions does require a player's skill. So, I think that most people would agree that "different types of creatures" is *not* a PvE-only concept.
To sum it up, there's nothing wrong with the skill per se until someone shows up and says "hey, different types of creatures is a PvE-only concept!" (which, at any rate, isn't true).
And finally, "It can't be avoided, so it must be nerfed!" is just as bad as "It's counterable, so it doesn't need nerfing!" - IMHO, you can't really say anything about wheter the skill is broken or not based simply on how avoidable/counterable it is... so the fact that all players are forced to play humans in PvP and therefore are doomed to be all affected by EoE all at the same time isn't really enough to say the skill is broken.
Nikki Moonlight
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Originally Posted by Eder
You're suggesting that EoE is broken in PvP because there's no way to avoid having it affect ALL players at a time since everyone can only play humans... but I don't think that argument holds much water at all.
For starters, the skill does just what the description says... you may think that it "takes a PvE concept and applies it to PvP", but you must realize that this distinction was also created by you. In PvP there are also different types of creatures involved that effectively take part in the matches and may change their outcomes... and even if no player is *directly* controlling them, taking advantage of pets or minions does require a player's skill. So, I think that most people would agree that "different types of creatures" is *not* a PvE-only concept. To sum it up, there's nothing wrong with the skill per se until someone shows up and says "hey, different types of creatures is a PvE-only concept!" (which, at any rate, isn't true). And finally, "It can't be avoided, so it must be nerfed!" is just as bad as "It's counterable, so it doesn't need nerfing!" - IMHO, you can't really say anything about wheter the skill is broken or not based simply on how avoidable/counterable it is... so the fact that all players are forced to play humans in PvP and therefore are doomed to be all affected by EoE all at the same time isn't really enough to say the skill is broken. |
twicky_kid
Broken.....No
Overpowered.....Yes
Overpowered.....Yes
gotenks
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Originally Posted by Eder
You're suggesting that EoE is broken in PvP because there's no way to avoid having it affect ALL players at a time since everyone can only play humans... but I don't think that argument holds much water at all.
For starters, the skill does just what the description says... you may think that it "takes a PvE concept and applies it to PvP", but you must realize that this distinction was also created by you. In PvP there are also different types of creatures involved that effectively take part in the matches and may change their outcomes... and even if no player is *directly* controlling them, taking advantage of pets or minions does require a player's skill. So, I think that most people would agree that "different types of creatures" is *not* a PvE-only concept. To sum it up, there's nothing wrong with the skill per se until someone shows up and says "hey, different types of creatures is a PvE-only concept!" (which, at any rate, isn't true). And finally, "It can't be avoided, so it must be nerfed!" is just as bad as "It's counterable, so it doesn't need nerfing!" - IMHO, you can't really say anything about wheter the skill is broken or not based simply on how avoidable/counterable it is... so the fact that all players are forced to play humans in PvP and therefore are doomed to be all affected by EoE all at the same time isn't really enough to say the skill is broken. |
On the topic of convincing people that it takes "skill" to use EoE, thats hillarious, if the team using it doesnt even know what the outcome of it is going to be, then thats not skill to me. Its more like hey, if we meet a better team, we will have this as a "wildcard" and in the end if were loosing we might have this bomb going off killing everyone when we were down 5 to 8 and hopefully we can do something after that. Its dead PLAYERS that give you the victory not PETS/MINIONS.
Also if you think that I have misinterpreted something and therefore my logic is flawed, and that EoE is perfect as it is. Then think of this as an effort on my part to suggest some changes that are necessary in my opinion to the concerned skill, with the help of the guru community.
Fred Kiwi
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Originally Posted by gotenks
Thats exactly my point. Where's the skill here? In my opinion when you PvP race does not matter as we only have humans as an availble option. Listen to what I am saying please. There are no races in PvP only Teams. EoE applies a PvE aspect of the game wrongly to PvP.
Lets Imagine that they have the finals of Guild Wars championship in the same format as HoH or something similar and in the end something like what you mentioned happens. Can you really say that the winning team did it with skill? Will the winning team after such a match really be world champions? Think about it |
Mitsu Bishi
Nonetheless EoE seems to be bugged a bit, because you will get the damage even if you're not standing in the radius of EoE. The icon is clearly gone from the effects monitor and I'm about half an aggro away from where it ended, yet I'll get damaged for xx damage from EoE.
But apart from that range issue it is a viable skill and I don't see any problems with it. Sure it can be nasty but a good team won't allow it to get dropped, will kill it outright or take other counter-measures. Furthermore, Edge does nothing at all without people dying, so just stay alive
But apart from that range issue it is a viable skill and I don't see any problems with it. Sure it can be nasty but a good team won't allow it to get dropped, will kill it outright or take other counter-measures. Furthermore, Edge does nothing at all without people dying, so just stay alive
CAT
There is nothign wrong with edge and this guy cant even prove something wrong with it. FYI it takes a few plinks to kill its not like the spirit cannot be stopped
xBakox
Well I was doing Tombs the other day and there were 4 games where EoE was dropped. In one game all they did was drop it, one of their team died and all of the sudden we all died. In the others we all died but were victorious some how and the oter 2 we lost. Seemed a little broken teh first time, but the rest just seemed overpowered.
IMO I think EoE should only affect your profession or class. It would still be useful but not bombing whole teams (unless it was say....IWAY).
IMO I think EoE should only affect your profession or class. It would still be useful but not bombing whole teams (unless it was say....IWAY).
Former Ruling
Mitsu - If you in range of someone who is in range of EoE - you'll likely take dmg lol. EoE has an unlisted ability to "jump" from 1 creature to someone outside EoE's range.
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I think the OP is making us argument off the fact that in PvE there are many races of beings, but in PvP there are only 2 (Allied creatures, and Humans). So he thinks that this fact makes EoE alot more influencial to the outcome of the battle in PvP.
What he doesn't realize, is that in PvE also..Your likely only facing 1-2 of those races at a time anyway (where in the game do more than maybe 2 races come together and fight you WITHOUT killing each other first? very few places..I can think of maybe 2). So..EoE has the same effectiveness in that regards (it hitting everything your facing).
Where its different in PvP is the area - in PvP your confined to an arena - whose range is alot of the times only slightly bigger than EoE's reach. And the fact that it hurts you as well when you trigger it.
Thats the justification for it..You dmging everyone? You are dmging yourself too. You can counter that dmg? they can too..they just didn't. Thats like saying All hexses are overpowered because you didn't bring a hex removal skill.
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I think the OP is making us argument off the fact that in PvE there are many races of beings, but in PvP there are only 2 (Allied creatures, and Humans). So he thinks that this fact makes EoE alot more influencial to the outcome of the battle in PvP.
What he doesn't realize, is that in PvE also..Your likely only facing 1-2 of those races at a time anyway (where in the game do more than maybe 2 races come together and fight you WITHOUT killing each other first? very few places..I can think of maybe 2). So..EoE has the same effectiveness in that regards (it hitting everything your facing).
Where its different in PvP is the area - in PvP your confined to an arena - whose range is alot of the times only slightly bigger than EoE's reach. And the fact that it hurts you as well when you trigger it.
Thats the justification for it..You dmging everyone? You are dmging yourself too. You can counter that dmg? they can too..they just didn't. Thats like saying All hexses are overpowered because you didn't bring a hex removal skill.
chippxero
I don't see the problem with it personally, a few hits and it's gone, plus someone should notice the guy putting it down and interupt.
Tyrent Frath
first of all...it hurts your team just as much as it hurts the other team (unless you're running a specific EoE build, which actually shouldnt make it to HoH anyway.
Also...does anyone know what kind of damage EoE dishes out? could your use conflagaration (sp) of fire and winter? then mantra of frost?
Also...does anyone know what kind of damage EoE dishes out? could your use conflagaration (sp) of fire and winter? then mantra of frost?
SirJackassIII
EoE's damage is like Holy or Shadow damage, it ignores armor, but I think Absorbtion reduces it.
Also, I think I read somewhere that EoE's range is broken, it was bigger than most spirits, but it just didn't show in the lefthand corner, while it was there. Could be false though.
Also, I think I read somewhere that EoE's range is broken, it was bigger than most spirits, but it just didn't show in the lefthand corner, while it was there. Could be false though.
Eder
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Originally Posted by gotenks
There is only one playable race "Player vs Player" so you can say when a someone enters PvP it becomes your team vs the other team(s), where does the concept of race fit in here?
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I have explained this already, as have other people - the fact that the other races present in PvP aren't directly controlled by players doesn't affect the fact that they are a part of PvP.
Hence, your "race is a PvE-only concept" argument is wrong. It's not that we don't understand what you're saying, it's that we don't agree with it because we all know for a fact that you are wrong. Any one of us can take 3 minutes to log on to GW, create a PvP R/N, and prove that there are creatures of different types participating in the same PvP match.
Wheter they're all directly controlled by players or not is a moot point. Why would it be okay for a skill to target all pets, and for another skill to target all minions, but oh wait a minute, what evil conspiracy is that, a skill that targets all humans? How am I supposed to avoid that? Because if I can't, then that's clearly overpowered! Call the police!
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Originally Posted by gotenks
EoE is a standout as it forms a coupling between players on different TEAMS on the basis of their race, when there shouldnt really be that distinction as all PvP games have only one PLAYABLE race and hence race specific things should not matter.
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Eet GnomeSmasher
I really can't believe someone has an issue with EoE. This HAS to be a practical joke being played by Gotenks.
There's really no point in addressing his points because there really are no points. They're just opinions. For example, his opinion that it takes no skill to use EoE. What he doesnt realize is that you don't just use that one skill alone but you build a team around it.
If you reduce ANY skill to just clicking away on it, then nothing takes skill. You could say healing takes no skill because all I'm doing is clicking the heal button.
Gotenks, you simply have no clue about what you're talking about. You've even admitted that you don't PVP much.
There's really no point in addressing his points because there really are no points. They're just opinions. For example, his opinion that it takes no skill to use EoE. What he doesnt realize is that you don't just use that one skill alone but you build a team around it.
If you reduce ANY skill to just clicking away on it, then nothing takes skill. You could say healing takes no skill because all I'm doing is clicking the heal button.
Gotenks, you simply have no clue about what you're talking about. You've even admitted that you don't PVP much.
Mr. Smiles
I mainly focus on PvE so I don't really have an opinion other than thinking it is funny as hell to see an EoE bomb go off while observing a halls match... One in particular had all three teams fighting in the middle, the american team was holding the altar, and all of a sudden someone died, BAM everyone dead with 1:30 left on the clock. So they just lay there till the timer ran out while the other observers and myself laughed our asses off. When the timer ran out the american team won and was revived to get the chest.
I wish i had fraps running for that...
I wish i had fraps running for that...
hidden_agenda
actually, after reading the above posts, IMO there are only two issues that Anet needs to take care of for EoE:
1. If a player / creature is outside the EoE effect, no EoE damage should happen (I thought I did see this problem when I was observing a Tomb match, but I am not sure. If someone can confirm this, then it's definitely a bug, and we should ask Anet to fix it).
2. If it's "systematic" action that did the damage, then EoE effect should not take place. I.E. if a match is time based and suddenly one team loses due to timeout, the victorious team should NOT take damage due to EoE from the death of the losing team -- that would seem clearly to be an unintended feature / bug that should be fixed...
Other than that I don't see any problems with EoE...
1. If a player / creature is outside the EoE effect, no EoE damage should happen (I thought I did see this problem when I was observing a Tomb match, but I am not sure. If someone can confirm this, then it's definitely a bug, and we should ask Anet to fix it).
2. If it's "systematic" action that did the damage, then EoE effect should not take place. I.E. if a match is time based and suddenly one team loses due to timeout, the victorious team should NOT take damage due to EoE from the death of the losing team -- that would seem clearly to be an unintended feature / bug that should be fixed...
Other than that I don't see any problems with EoE...
BigTru
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gotenks
On the topic of convincing people that it takes "skill" to use EoE, thats hillarious, if the team using it doesnt even know what the outcome of it is going to be, then thats not skill to me. Its more like hey, if we meet a better team, we will have this as a "wildcard" and in the end if were loosing we might have this bomb going off killing everyone when we were down 5 to 8 and hopefully we can do something after that.
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twicky_kid
EoE's range is as other stated. If you are within some one just out of range of eoe it will jump to you. If you spread everyone out in a line across the map then have 1 person die it will hit everyone inside and out of eoe's range.
People that yell "just kill the spirit" must not much exp vs eoe. Its always placed far behind their lines. If you go after it you are over extending your monks and putting them in a lot of danger. Just because you kill it does not mean you can stop another one from being laid. While you are after that spirit your team is being pounded on.
Spirit spamming rangers with oath shot are becoming more common. Just because you kill it doesn't stop it one bit. Since its chain is so fast only 2 skills can save you: Rof and MoP. Rof is iffy and no one brings mark unless its EoE protection.
I don't know what to do about it. You kill it you hurt you team chasing after it. You dont' kill it you hurt your team. There is no win answer.
People that yell "just kill the spirit" must not much exp vs eoe. Its always placed far behind their lines. If you go after it you are over extending your monks and putting them in a lot of danger. Just because you kill it does not mean you can stop another one from being laid. While you are after that spirit your team is being pounded on.
Spirit spamming rangers with oath shot are becoming more common. Just because you kill it doesn't stop it one bit. Since its chain is so fast only 2 skills can save you: Rof and MoP. Rof is iffy and no one brings mark unless its EoE protection.
I don't know what to do about it. You kill it you hurt you team chasing after it. You dont' kill it you hurt your team. There is no win answer.
Ristaron
Before I descend into a fit of laughter again, I'll say that everything in this game must be an exploit if you use it properly.
Omg Chain lightning hit 3 people!!!111
expl0itz!!!1 admin fix plz!!!1 b4n th3m!!!!1
omg!!!11 wtf???2
h4x
Omg Chain lightning hit 3 people!!!111
expl0itz!!!1 admin fix plz!!!1 b4n th3m!!!!1
omg!!!11 wtf???2
h4x
borkbork
Mending is an exploit!!!
It's like free health... ALL THE TIME.
It's like free health... ALL THE TIME.
Phrozen_
hehe eoe is kinda bs, we lucked out in this match.. if only one of our guys wouldve died, the chain wouldve wiped us all out.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/hlal1/eoe%201.JPG
http://members.optusnet.com.au/hlal1/eoe%202.JPG
btw thanks 'Soft Killing' for laying down the eoe
http://members.optusnet.com.au/hlal1/eoe%201.JPG
http://members.optusnet.com.au/hlal1/eoe%202.JPG
btw thanks 'Soft Killing' for laying down the eoe
Viruzzz
works great with minions/death nova
and its not the spirit itself doing damage (not until the person getting spiked die anyway
and its not the spirit itself doing damage (not until the person getting spiked die anyway