Fury CR is managed by 1 former NCSoft Employee and the legendary JR, former GW player. They got Fury into the CPL and it's not even out yet.
Guild Wars has been out for 2 god damn years and there has still been almost 0 3rd party tournaments, and a constantly changing, floundering competitive system.
It's amazing how Guild Wars/Anet can create a gaming category (CORPG) and then watch WoW/Fury/everyone else do things right while this game dies on the vine.
When will someone at this company get a F'ing clue? Lern2bizness.
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4637072&EDATE=
Fury in CPL, Anet Fails Again
black_mischief
Etta
So? Why don't you buy ANet out, and take over them if you're so good at bizness?
Psuedo Halgoen
Fury has alex too!
EPO Bot
So? Another troll tread. Delete and perma ban.
black_mischief
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Originally Posted by Etta
So? Why don't you buy ANet out, and take over them if you're so good at bizness?
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fenix
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Originally Posted by EPO Bot
So? Another troll tread. Delete and perma ban.
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Delete and perma ban you for trolling. Black is simply stating a point, and a valid one at that.
Etta
Yes, it's a valid point. Also just like many of sport fans out there, who thinks they can do the job better than the team manager. Take some action, I say. If you think Anet is rubbish, well what're you gonna do about it?
Traveller
Who are JR and Fury?
Lonesamurai
We may discuss this a little with Martin Kerstein, the Guild wars community Rep for NCSoft on the Ascension show tonight briefly before we start the main discussion about GW2
It is a very good point, although Black didn't bring it across in the best manner possible, but it is still a good point, ANet indeed pushed GW as the competitive PvP gameat first and not doing things like this has, IMO, seriously hurt GW and hurt its potential PvP player base... it was created by the guys that created Starcraft afterall, and surely they understand how they could have had similar following from professional gamers as Starcraft does, but it comes down to a simple and flawed lack of real marketting...
hell, WoW is only as big as it is because of the sledgehammer marketting Blizzard did for it
Fury is the new game coming soon and currently in very open betas from a company called Auran, an australian company... The premise is to make a PvP centred game where all the character developement and the majority of the game is through PvP of some form or another...
JR, or Dan Gray (as he is known by his real name as a Fury Dev) was a very vocal and exception PvP player in Guild wars (and still is, and his monking is top notch in GvG and I've had the pleasure of gvG'ing with him when he has guested for WPS), he was also a big supporter of Gaile as he understood the general pressure she was under and was also known to have sent flowers to Gaile over at ANet for doing great things to help the GW community and he is a great loss to the community and a major gain to the Fury dev team and community.
Alex "GhostRaptor" Weekes was the Guild Wars community rep for NCSoft and was recently replaced by Matrin Kerstein when Alex was offered the job at Auran to help get Fury up and running... Also a very good GW player aswell and has also been very helpful and given me some great ideas for marketing my radio station and I'm hoping a Fury show will be up and going soon that he and JR will be a part of
It is a very good point, although Black didn't bring it across in the best manner possible, but it is still a good point, ANet indeed pushed GW as the competitive PvP gameat first and not doing things like this has, IMO, seriously hurt GW and hurt its potential PvP player base... it was created by the guys that created Starcraft afterall, and surely they understand how they could have had similar following from professional gamers as Starcraft does, but it comes down to a simple and flawed lack of real marketting...
hell, WoW is only as big as it is because of the sledgehammer marketting Blizzard did for it
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Originally Posted by Traveller
Who are JR and Fury?
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JR, or Dan Gray (as he is known by his real name as a Fury Dev) was a very vocal and exception PvP player in Guild wars (and still is, and his monking is top notch in GvG and I've had the pleasure of gvG'ing with him when he has guested for WPS), he was also a big supporter of Gaile as he understood the general pressure she was under and was also known to have sent flowers to Gaile over at ANet for doing great things to help the GW community and he is a great loss to the community and a major gain to the Fury dev team and community.
Alex "GhostRaptor" Weekes was the Guild Wars community rep for NCSoft and was recently replaced by Matrin Kerstein when Alex was offered the job at Auran to help get Fury up and running... Also a very good GW player aswell and has also been very helpful and given me some great ideas for marketing my radio station and I'm hoping a Fury show will be up and going soon that he and JR will be a part of
Matfei
Here's a great idea. Learn to speak like a normal person. Such ridiculous contractions are utterly pointless and devoid of any decent grammar. Surely you could at least try to make it make some sense, no?
It's not catchy, nor does it reflect any form of personal intelligence.
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[highlight]Added by Moderator: "Do not abuse the English language." The rules indeed back this. Please keep in mind that flaming is similarly not conducive to civil discussion.
It's not catchy, nor does it reflect any form of personal intelligence.
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[highlight]Added by Moderator: "Do not abuse the English language." The rules indeed back this. Please keep in mind that flaming is similarly not conducive to civil discussion.
Longasc
I think NOT being in the CPL aka "Cyberathlete Professional League" could also be intended. It does not ring too appealing to me at least.
The OP has a point, GW was marketed as a Competitive Online Role Playing Game (CORPG), but it went more and more to became a casual players with a tiny base of high level pvp game.
I also think players should stop thinking of Fury as the measure for GW. So far it is quite different kind of game and also rather crappy, despite the good intentions. I hope some of you could try in the test weekend, I did not try on my notebook (only 128 MB graphics card). It was not my kind of game, but I will refrain from commenting more before I have tried it on my own system.
The OP has a point, GW was marketed as a Competitive Online Role Playing Game (CORPG), but it went more and more to became a casual players with a tiny base of high level pvp game.
I also think players should stop thinking of Fury as the measure for GW. So far it is quite different kind of game and also rather crappy, despite the good intentions. I hope some of you could try in the test weekend, I did not try on my notebook (only 128 MB graphics card). It was not my kind of game, but I will refrain from commenting more before I have tried it on my own system.
Matfei
To the point after my little diatribe...
I don't participate in any tournaments, just casual PvP and the occasional GvG with friends. From what I do gather though, ArenaNet has sort of let their CORPG genre go stale. As for these automated tournaments being naff I would'nt know.
I don't participate in any tournaments, just casual PvP and the occasional GvG with friends. From what I do gather though, ArenaNet has sort of let their CORPG genre go stale. As for these automated tournaments being naff I would'nt know.
black_mischief
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Originally Posted by Etta
Yes, it's a valid point. Also just like many of sport fans out there, who thinks they can do the job better than the team manager. Take some action, I say. If you think Anet is rubbish, well what're you gonna do about it?
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I also fail to see how my posting and commentary makes me responsible for fixing problems at an organization where I don't even work. It's not my product/service to fix.
If Auran can get a 3rd party league to sponsor a tournament of their product, with relative ease... don't you think a company (NCSoft) that is several multiples bigger than Auran, a million+ players in strength, and over $300 M US dollars in the bank should be capable of accomplishing nearly the same results, if not more?
That doesn't seem like a tall order to me. The issue isn't Fury. It's the failure to develop the competitive game. Perhaps Fury won't be the product to force all current/former Guild Wars PvP players to put the game behind them permanently. But I suspect Warhammer or another game will have the wherewithal to do so.
- black
jackie
PAX 10k Tournament & Championships were awesome, but they didn't catch the mainstream audience in my opinion. Getting GW into CPL would be major win.
Etta
Relax I'm not flaming you or anything. But since you were the first one to open the can, so I guess you had a big idea or something. I also said that I agree, it's a valid point. Why don't GW hire a better ad-agency or better marketting people, but I dont know nor care much. I'm pretty content about where the game is, if it get too big then it wont be an underdog anymore.
See, if your first post was like your last, then I would say ditto.
See, if your first post was like your last, then I would say ditto.
ForgeWhelp
The less money they spend on advert the more they can pump into the game with free stuff and no monthly fees. If they did massive advert campaigns the money would have to come from somewhere...
Yanman.be
JR has to say Aunt to Gaile Gray.
DreamWind
I think the entire thing is a bit sad if you ask me. Fury ISN'T EVEN OUT YET, and it already has competitive sponsers. Guild Wars, a game that was once epic in terms of PvP competition has nothing but a monthly AT. The Guild Wars competitive market could have been massive, but it probably won't be now. I think its a pretty telling tale on how Guild Wars was run.
This is only a half shot at Anet though. They went the route of serving casual PvE players who didn't want to pay for WoW after they realized what happened. They definately did not do the steps it takes to make the competitive aspect of the game legendary.
Now the question is whether or not they knew how to do that. A friend recently pointed out to me that Anet is essentially a company of gamers that made a game for the gamers. There doesn't seem to be any business/market gurus in Anet (at least not that I know of...Blizzard has tons). It clearly shows in their inability to make the PvP market in Guild Wars soar.
This is only a half shot at Anet though. They went the route of serving casual PvE players who didn't want to pay for WoW after they realized what happened. They definately did not do the steps it takes to make the competitive aspect of the game legendary.
Now the question is whether or not they knew how to do that. A friend recently pointed out to me that Anet is essentially a company of gamers that made a game for the gamers. There doesn't seem to be any business/market gurus in Anet (at least not that I know of...Blizzard has tons). It clearly shows in their inability to make the PvP market in Guild Wars soar.
jackie
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Originally Posted by ForgeWhelp
The less money they spend on advert the more they can pump into the game with free stuff and no monthly fees. If they did massive advert campaigns the money would have to come from somewhere...
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Productivity
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Originally Posted by Etta
Why don't GW hire a better ad-agency or better marketting people,
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Lonesamurai
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Originally Posted by jackie
And where would the resources to add free content come from? Less bought accounts less money. Marketing takes lot of money but doing it well will net you all the lost money back with few extra 0000 behind the cheque.
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Rocky Raccoon
While the OP may be valid, I wonder (other than a core group of Pvp players) how many GW players really care about the original premise.
Lonesamurai
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Originally Posted by Risky Ranger
While the OP may be valid, I wonder (other than a core group of Pvp players) how many GW players really care about the original premise.
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hyro yamaguchi
Fury looks like a nice game, I'll be spending the weekend in the open Beta.
jackie
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
thing is, for ANet, money actually isn't an option, nor is marketting, as both are looked after by NCSoft
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But that doesn't mean Anet has to keep low profile and let NCSoft pull the strings. If they don't get active marketing support from NC, I'm quite positive that there are more than few big publishers out there willing to support them properly, GW is too big name to have such a passive marketing.
the_jos
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| While the OP may be valid, I wonder (other than a core group of Pvp players) how many GW players really care about the original premise. |
I have this nice box here in front of me that states 'Ascend as a team to the highest levels of competion, a truly global tournament to control the Hall of Heroes. World fame awaits the victors'.
Well, that might be true a long time ago, but now those victors are not famed, but are bugged by a lot of PvE players whining their skills got nerfed and PvP changes should not dominate PvE that much.
lyra_song
Well of course Fury will have an easier time getting into CPL, it doesnt even really have a PvE. Its completely PVP. Its more focused and therefore more easily handled.
It Guild Wars was to seperate the PvP system (ie: All PvP skills are seperate, all PvP characters and PvE chars in PvP were equal in weaponry and skill access) then it would be more viable as a pure pvp game.
Lack of support for third party tournaments is imo, a problem with priority.
With players clamoring for updates and bug fixes and whining about everything else, plus new expansions and a sequel, focusing on CPL seems irrelevant to me.
The OP is basically saying this:
but really...whats your point?
It Guild Wars was to seperate the PvP system (ie: All PvP skills are seperate, all PvP characters and PvE chars in PvP were equal in weaponry and skill access) then it would be more viable as a pure pvp game.
Lack of support for third party tournaments is imo, a problem with priority.
With players clamoring for updates and bug fixes and whining about everything else, plus new expansions and a sequel, focusing on CPL seems irrelevant to me.
The OP is basically saying this:
but really...whats your point?
Shadis
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
most of the beta vets like me that still play actually, especially as some of us have gone to great lengths to market the game, for nothing i might add
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Hearing about what lies ahead for Guild Wars 2 is pretty much the final nail in the coffin for the ideals of the game we were sold on.
hyro yamaguchi
You can't possibly state that the succes of WoW is all due its huge marketing budget; the warcraft serie had millions of fans before WoW was released. Guildwars on the other hand was a new game; thus no people who knew they were going to buy it even before they heard what it would going to be.
But Guildwars just doesn't have the own style that WoW has. The graphics look like most other MMORPGs.
You could feel that this is irrelevant. But I really think it isn't.
If you want to promote a new game, you don't just throw in a couple of millions, have some ads and *BAM* huge sales.
No, there must be a reason why people would want to choose your game. And the only reason Guildwars had, for people who hadn't played it yet, was that it had no monthly fee. There just never was that 'I've got to have this game' feeling that WoW did have.
If Anet would have wanted to sell GW properly, they should have given it an own feeling, from the outside. But instead they focussed on the inside. Which is offcourse absolutely wonderfull! But a mistake in terms of marketing.
But Guildwars just doesn't have the own style that WoW has. The graphics look like most other MMORPGs.
You could feel that this is irrelevant. But I really think it isn't.
If you want to promote a new game, you don't just throw in a couple of millions, have some ads and *BAM* huge sales.
No, there must be a reason why people would want to choose your game. And the only reason Guildwars had, for people who hadn't played it yet, was that it had no monthly fee. There just never was that 'I've got to have this game' feeling that WoW did have.
If Anet would have wanted to sell GW properly, they should have given it an own feeling, from the outside. But instead they focussed on the inside. Which is offcourse absolutely wonderfull! But a mistake in terms of marketing.
crucifix
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Originally Posted by jackie
True.
But that doesn't mean Anet has to keep low profile and let NCSoft pull the strings. If they don't get active marketing support from NC, I'm quite positive that there are more than few big publishers out there willing to support them properly, GW is too big name to have such a passive marketing. |
I agree that Gaile sucks pretty hard at her job; it is her responsibility to be a good PR rep, not to be buddy buddy with all of the pve players who dont really drive the original market of the game. you cant have a competitive online role-playing game without a valid, and closely monitored form of PvP.
Now then, about those resources. We are seeing almost a mockup of blizzard entertainment here. Ill use the diablo series in relation to WoW for this. In diablo (the original) the servers were left on unsupported for quite some time before the release of diablo II. This was more or less their way of staling the user base. As soon as d2 was released, the d1 crowd almost completely shifted to the sequel, because of the horribly stale gameplay that they had grown accustomed to. D2 did the exact same thing right after the announcement of WoW (any of my old d2 players know exactly what im talking about). The economy went to shit, dupes rampaged the servers (they still do) and the game was/ has been/ still is left to die. Right now, the devs at anet are working on getting GW:EN ready along with GW2, which they have another year to complete and release. Its crunch time at anet, so my bet is that we won't be seeing any major content updates for quite some time, if ever again after EN gets its fix. (which it will, there is no such thing as a flawless release)
Kakumei
It's too bad Fury is a terrible game or this might mean something.
glountz
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Originally Posted by Risky Ranger
While the OP may be valid, I wonder (other than a core group of Pvp players) how many GW players really care about the original premise.
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GW isn't anymore the game I bought. And, having a job and money, I really don't care about monthly fees. So the "non-monthly fee" is not what made me buy this game. Having limited time, it is more the skill over time spent credo that was interesting for me.
Well, was is quite the correct verb. PvP is almost dead. Hero battles are given ladder while TA dies. Heroes Ascent has become heroway ascent, and GvG has gotten less and less interesting through game imbalances.
The new GW PVE has been given Mallyx and DoA, the old GW the Sorrow Furnace. You see what I mean.
LifeInfusion
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Originally Posted by jackie
If they don't get active marketing support from NC, I'm quite positive that there are more than few big publishers out there willing to support them properly, GW is too big name to have such a passive marketing.
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Well of course Fury will have an easier time getting into CPL, it doesnt even really have a PvE. Its completely PVP. Its more focused and therefore more easily handled.
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Originally Posted by hyro yamaguchi
And the only reason Guildwars had, for people who hadn't played it yet, was that it had no monthly fee.
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Everyone keeps on wailing about Gaile since the beginning. I really feel bad for her. She tells you people the news and you shoot the messenger.
Its less than a month before GW:EN comes out, you cannot expect them to pay attention to all your complaints. It's only roughly a hundred people on the team. It's not like Blizzard, which has a staff of hundreds just for GMs.
Fury will probably be a good game. It will not, however, replace Guild Wars. Guild Wars was all about the marriage of casual PvE (unlike grindfests) and PvP. Note that is why we have Alliance battles.
Fury is about 24/7 PvP action.
We may lose some hardcore PvP players, but not a critical mass of players. Besides, who is to say you cannot play both?
Jetdoc
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Originally Posted by hyro yamaguchi
Fury looks like a nice game, I'll be spending the weekend in the open Beta.
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"As you advance you gain rank (there are 10 total), which allows you more equip points for the incarnation you’ll take into battle. This means, more or better skills, spells, etc."
That sounds like you get actual in game advantages based on the amount that you play (or at least win). That's not too great.
lyra_song
Fury is basically this:
Spawn....Veteran kills you....you die....respawn.
The end.
Spawn....Veteran kills you....you die....respawn.
The end.
hyro yamaguchi
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Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
That's pretty shallow. If a game is crap and has no fee whatsoever, even for the box, nobody is going to bother playing it.
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Nonethless, most people won't know how shitty or great a game is untill they have played it.
So your game needs something extra, if you want it to be a big hit. And in the case of Guildwars this was the no-monthly fee.
But otherwise than that it didn't have too much to stand on in order to ensure massive sales. Nonetheless they did a great job. I really think that they went for the more hardcore gamers, instead of focussing on the masses. It's just unfair to blame them for making that choice and thusly getting less attention from the mass.
Rocky Raccoon
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Originally Posted by glountz
I do really care. But I'm caring less and less.
GW isn't anymore the game I bought. And, having a job and money, I really don't care about monthly fees. So the "non-monthly fee" is not what made me buy this game. Having limited time, it is more the skill over time spent credo that was interesting for me. Well, was is quite the correct verb. PvP is almost dead. Hero battles are given ladder while TA dies. Heroes Ascent has become heroway ascent, and GvG has gotten less and less interesting through game imbalances. The new GW PVE has been given Mallyx and DoA, the old GW the Sorrow Furnace. You see what I mean. |
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by Risky Ranger
Could it be that the game has evolved into something different than originally intended and the devs are just adjusting to what thay see is the general trend.They can see all of the stats behind the game and know how people are playing. It might just be that a majority of players like the way the game is headed, but they are the silent majority. People forget that most who play GW never even look at a forum. just we the addicted.
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Anet tries to cater to everyone. Casual, Hardcore, Elite. PvE and PvP.
The game has changed, if you obviously cannot tell.
Factions tried to continue the trend of PvE AND PvP, but guess what? PvErs HATED the PvP aspect.
Nightfall brought heroes and PvE skills to make PvErs happy. Guess what? PvPers HATE what heroes have done (look at the state of HA) and the general lack of new PvP from nightfall, not to mention the power creep.
Wildi
Fury will do the same mistakes anet did. Smart people learn from other people's mistakes. Fury devs will learn from their own.
Etta
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Originally Posted by Risky Ranger
Could it be that the game has evolved into something different than originally intended and the devs are just adjusting to what thay see is the general trend.
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And what's this got to do with Gaile? She's a PR not Ad or Marketing.