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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
i might as well add what PoP means lol Piss off PvPers. gotta love that build.
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Skill Balances, HA Update, VoD Changes
fallot
sindex
I notice some people in here playing the ignorant card; saying, “Exhaustion is fun, weeeeeee.” If you wanted it that way then might as well extend exhaustion to all spells. See how you like exhaustion then. Before you know it you will have people just swinging at each other with whatever they have in their hands; because they have no energy to use. Either that or heavily rely on signets and adrenaline skills.
Let’s face facts: exhaustion just usually kills a skill from being played; unless someone has a large energy pool. How many people do you see use primarily exhaustion skills (meaning all their skills)? The answer should be very little or none at all. Originally I love the buff to “Ride the Lightning,” but now I hardly ever use it. This is one the reasons you don’t see to many air builds for the Ele (you have to choose wisely).
The point that exhaustion is better energy management is laughable at best.
25 energy - exhaustion = about 19secs full energy pool
10 energy + exhaustion = about 30secs full energy pool
Of course exhaustion lowers your energy pool to a bare minimum, making it so you can technically regen faster. However when you facing an energy pool of 0 and your waiting for that energy pool to come back, the chances of you beating anyone down with your skills is slim (especially if they rely on mainly energy only).
Yes there are smart ways around exhaustion like having the patience for it. Nevertheless some skills like the Ele skills that do some major damage; I can really understand why it’s needed. However when it comes to certain Rit skills having Exhaustion does not enhance the play, it only kills it.
I can see the general bias of those people who never like the Rit looming into view (egging on the idea “kill the Rit”), but honestly there is simply no need. I guess some of you are happy with less then more.
EDIT: Instead of Exhaustion use something like sacrifice health %. I think that would be a better selection overall.
Let’s face facts: exhaustion just usually kills a skill from being played; unless someone has a large energy pool. How many people do you see use primarily exhaustion skills (meaning all their skills)? The answer should be very little or none at all. Originally I love the buff to “Ride the Lightning,” but now I hardly ever use it. This is one the reasons you don’t see to many air builds for the Ele (you have to choose wisely).
The point that exhaustion is better energy management is laughable at best.
25 energy - exhaustion = about 19secs full energy pool
10 energy + exhaustion = about 30secs full energy pool
Of course exhaustion lowers your energy pool to a bare minimum, making it so you can technically regen faster. However when you facing an energy pool of 0 and your waiting for that energy pool to come back, the chances of you beating anyone down with your skills is slim (especially if they rely on mainly energy only).
Yes there are smart ways around exhaustion like having the patience for it. Nevertheless some skills like the Ele skills that do some major damage; I can really understand why it’s needed. However when it comes to certain Rit skills having Exhaustion does not enhance the play, it only kills it.
I can see the general bias of those people who never like the Rit looming into view (egging on the idea “kill the Rit”), but honestly there is simply no need. I guess some of you are happy with less then more.
EDIT: Instead of Exhaustion use something like sacrifice health %. I think that would be a better selection overall.
manitoba1073
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Originally Posted by fallot
I suggest renaming it to HB, for Hilariously Bad. lol, gotta love that build.
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yesitsrob
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Yeap so bad that just 1 character can stop full spikes. Thats what I find hilarious. Really nice killing off N/Mo's spamming HP. And with just Nightmare weapon and Dual shot at 12 points thats 84 damage a hit life stealling. Oh NVM I see why its bad, its not on the elite PvP approved build wiki lists. No we know why most PvPers always have problems with spikes. go figure.
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[skill]Dual Shot[/skill][skill]Nightmare Weapon[/skill][skill]Barrage[/skill][skill]Ignite Arrows[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Choking Gas[/skill]
Is one of the last slot a Res, and if it is is it a Res Signet or Flesh / Death Pact Signet
Milennin
I'm affected by only skill change this update...I'm very happy to see "For Great Justice!" giving +100% Adrenaline now.^^
Faer
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Yeap so bad that just 1 character can stop full spikes. Thats what I find hilarious. Really nice killing off N/Mo's spamming HP. And with just Nightmare weapon and Dual shot at 12 points thats 84 damage a hit life stealling. Oh NVM I see why its bad, its not on the elite PvP approved build wiki lists. No we know why most PvPers always have problems with spikes. go figure.
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Why ever did they change the Favor system, when the Mighty Manitoba could simply hold the Hall of Heroes and keep Favor forever? Oh dear me, I think I shall write a letter to ArenaNet immediately to demand that they revert the changes. This connecting Favor to PvE business is a wasted effort, seeing as how we have the Mighty Manitoba to stop all those nasty spikes.
Three cheers! Three cheers for the Mighty Manitoba!
Patrick Smit
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Originally Posted by sindex
I notice some people in here playing the ignorant card; saying, “Exhaustion is fun, weeeeeee.” If you wanted it that way then might as well extend exhaustion to all spells. See how you like exhaustion then. Before you know it you will have people just swinging at each other with whatever they have in their hands; because they have no energy to use. Either that or heavily rely on signets and adrenaline skills.
Let’s face facts: exhaustion just usually kills a skill from being played; unless someone has a large energy pool. How many people do you see use primarily exhaustion skills (meaning all their skills)? The answer should be very little or none at all. Originally I love the buff to “Ride the Lightning,” but now I hardly ever use it. This is one the reasons you don’t see to many air builds for the Ele (you have to choose wisely). The point that exhaustion is better energy management is laughable at best. 25 energy - exhaustion = about 19secs full energy pool 10 energy + exhaustion = about 30secs full energy pool Of course exhaustion lowers your energy pool to a bare minimum, making it so you can technically regen faster. However when you facing an energy pool of 0 and your waiting for that energy pool to come back, the chances of you beating anyone down with your skills is slim (especially if they rely on mainly energy only). Yes there are smart ways around exhaustion like having the patience for it. Nevertheless some skills like the Ele skills that do some major damage; I can really understand why it’s needed. However when it comes to certain Rit skills having Exhaustion does not enhance the play, it only kills it. I can see the general bias of those people who never like the Rit looming into view (egging on the idea “kill the Rit”), but honestly there is simply no need. I guess some of you are happy with less then more. EDIT: Instead of Exhaustion use something like sacrifice health %. I think that would be a better selection overall. |
Auron of Neon
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Originally Posted by yesitsrob
Can I have the full bar please. I wasn't sure on the first page if you were referring to two seperate builds. So far I have:
[skill]Dual Shot[/skill][skill]Nightmare Weapon[/skill][skill]Barrage[/skill][skill]Ignite Arrows[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Choking Gas[/skill] Is one of the last slot a Res, and if it is is it a Res Signet or Flesh / Death Pact Signet |
manitoba1073
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Originally Posted by Faer
Oh dear.
Why ever did they change the Favor system, when the Mighty Manitoba could simply hold the Hall of Heroes and keep Favor forever? Oh dear me, I think I shall write a letter to ArenaNet immediately to demand that they revert the changes. This connecting Favor to PvE business is a wasted effort, seeing as how we have the Mighty Manitoba to stop all those nasty spikes. Three cheers! Three cheers for the Mighty Manitoba! |
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Originally Posted by yesitsrob
Can I have the full bar please. I wasn't sure on the first page if you were referring to two seperate builds. So far I have:
[skill]Dual Shot[/skill][skill]Nightmare Weapon[/skill][skill]Barrage[/skill][skill]Ignite Arrows[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Choking Gas[/skill] Is one of the last slot a Res, and if it is is it a Res Signet or Flesh / Death Pact Signet |
sindex
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Originally Posted by Patrick Smit
Gale was being used even though it had exhaustion. It was even used by non-ele proffessions. You should just not load up your bar with exhaustion causing spells, thats just plain ignorant. And you should use the skill wisely, and not spam it.
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=HT=Ingram
Seems to me I saw a GW:EN skill mentioned at one point that reduced exhaustion someplace... Thats probably what they are planning ahead for...
yesitsrob
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Not my fault the obvious didnt smack you in the head, shame a PvE'r had to point out how to beat what most of you Pvp'rs claimed as unbeatable.
yeap rez sig and distracting shot are the other 2 skills. |
Surena
Double Exp scrolls
sindex
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Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram
Seems to me I saw a GW:EN skill mentioned at one point that reduced exhaustion someplace... Thats probably what they are planning ahead for...
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Do me a favor; if you kind find something about it, post it up please? I really appreciate it.
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Not my fault the obvious didnt smack you in the head, shame a PvE'r had to point out how to beat what most of you Pvp'rs claimed as unbeatable.
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Anyway, as far as these skill balances go - freakin sweet. I like when old builds die and new builds pop up. It mixes it up a little. Makes things interesting.
(especially "For great justice!" buff)
The favor thing doesn't affect me. HA doesn't interest me and titles don't interest me, so the change really don't make a lick of difference to me. Also, FoW and UW is boring, IMO. Good riddance to another PvP/PvE link, though.
upier
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Originally Posted by sindex
If only that were true as a PvE only skill; then this argument could be a little bit less heavy on the idea on exhaustion. However I still feel remorse for those who probably can’t get EotN. It’s like one of those marketing ploys: “get this if you buy this, but if you want its true potential you have to get this.”
Do me a favor; if you kind find something about it, post it up please? I really appreciate it. |
Hurt the skills in the game already so that players are almost forced to get the new game.
Too bad for them that there are actually folks out there that are bored of this game and refuse to play it with GWEN.
And especially bad that they are running this idea now - in a time when they should do everything possible to try to keep the players interested.
Cebe
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Originally Posted by Phantom Gun
Where did you see me trying to pass off Counterable as balance? I'm simply saying it wasn't impossible to beat a ritspike, and I feel the introduction of exhaustion to the Ritualist is a big mistake. Yeah right now it only applies to a few skills, but further down the road if the addition of exhaustion becomes permanent who knows what other skills may be affected by this. When is this game going to be balanced? Oh wait it never will be, and the nerfs go on!
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Perhaps one day ANet will look at a useless Rit Skill and completely re-work it...like...oh I dunno....Clamour of Souls! For every spirit within earshot you lose 1...3 points of exhaustion.
Shuuda
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Originally Posted by Dahnel
Wow way to RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO my favourite class, because your HA games are uninspired and demand nothing more than gaining the most kills.
A big [RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO]from all the Ritualists out there. Have a nice day. |
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Continuity (quote) edit.
manitoba1073
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Originally Posted by yesitsrob
Thanks, how exactly do you run it?
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Play around with the Zashain elite guys for a little with it. Usually ull start with Nightmare weapon and dual shot, then imediatly hit with choking gas. then you can goto splinter/barrage when that gets done hit ignite arrow, nightmare weapon, then dual shot. And then its basicaly rinse and repeat. But thats the basics of it.
Now the reason to use nightmare and dual shot on first hit is you will get hit some if you dont get the first shot off so using a long bow is a plus gives you time to get in a little more with choking gas.
Thargor
As far as the update goes I don't see anything that is too over the top except maybe the exhaustion on Rits. There are two classes that I do not play, the Paragon and Rit so I am not really concerned with it and will not comment on it. The other major gripe seems to be Aegis and its apparent requird use in PvE. I have vanquished all of Tyria. At least 30 of the areas were done solo with heros and hench and I can honestly say that Aegis was not on any skill bar in the group. There are many ways of doing things in this game, I suggest people actually try to learn more than one of them so when something gets changed they can keep on playing instead of wasting a bunch of time crying about it on the forums.
Cass
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Well I wont lie its not an easy build to run and its definitely not a 1,2,3 build.
Play around with the Zashain elite guys for a little with it. Usually ull start with Nightmare weapon and dual shot, then imediatly hit with choking gas. then you can goto splinter/barrage when that gets done hit ignite arrow, nightmare weapon, then dual shot. And then its basicaly rinse and repeat. But thats the basics of it. Now the reason to use nightmare and dual shot on first hit is you will get hit some if you dont get the first shot off so using a long bow is a plus gives you time to get in a little more with choking gas. |
The build you posted is ineffective, and I am being very, very polite. No less than four preparations/weapons, half of which don't even work with the elite attack skill you're using. Spread attributes across 3 lines, all of which are needed to power the sole purpose of attacking. The attack sequence you posted is just unreal. Nightmare weapon then dual shot and then "hit with choking gas"? ...
Honestly, you have a lot to learn if you think that using a weapon spell on your dual shot is the way to go and then to use an interrupt preparation for ~12 seconds before even using barrage (again).
The skill changes are a step in the right direction for the most part. I really hope the fairly random commentary by people who would think such a build a pinnacle of PvP are disregarded by the devs.
Miral
you realize you don't have to be using every single skill on your bar 100% of the time? if you rely on the whole bar for an effective build, then you're just, as our lovely andrew would put it, leaning on a crutch. and if you're relying on an elite skill to completely form your build, then its an even worse crutch; a crutch that a decent mesmer will rip out from under you so fast you'll be levitating for a second before gravity kicks in. the problem with pvp of course is that no one knows how to adapt, so instead of whine for nerfs, and make the PvEers adapt instead, when in reality the PvE were fine with the game just the way it was, and the PvPers are the big crybabies that want everything their way, and then a month later will want everything completely different again
jayce
for the love of god, can we have just one update for the necro blood magic skills. this is just down right sad. its bad enough that curses has the most number of skills in that attribute, and gets the most love again with the most number of skills in the upcoming gwen. not ever necro wants to run a hex bar. the same can be said with death magic skills. give the necro a reason to run something other than minions when investing in the death attribute. half the skills in death magic require the use of a corpse. enough with curses already. i say again, enough with the curses already.....
Jayce Of Underworld
Jayce Of Underworld
yesitsrob
Look, his bar is not very good. I just wanted to confirm what it did, Barrage + Preperation alone is bad, Barrage + 2 Preperation is worse... 2 preps on a bar in _most_ cases is bad. 2 Weapon spells on a ranger bar is normally bad. It's flawed, it would not do what he claims it to do in a proper pvp situation. Humans != NPCs and Barrage + Splinter does not have close to the same effect as you might think it will.
Evilsod
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Originally Posted by Patrick Smit
Gale was being used even though it had exhaustion. It was even used by non-ele proffessions. You should just not load up your bar with exhaustion causing spells, thats just plain ignorant. And you should use the skill wisely, and not spam it.
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These rit skills on the other hand, Wielder's Strike and Ancestors Rage? Why the hell would you of not taken these 2? Both useful damage dealing skills (albeit overpowered), so what do they do, add exhaustion to them, why the hell would i waste 2 slots on these now? I can use it once every 30 seconds or i'll screw myself over and all i get from it is a little damage. Then the spirits... Wanderlust maybe, but Anguish, Dissonance and Disenchantment, just wtf. They were all a bit expensive... but they exist on the same frigging skillbar quite easily! Offensive spirits rits have just been stabbed in the back and had there ashes pissed on... i can now take 1 of the 4... what a shitty change.
Manitoba... PLEASE stop talking... your making the PvEers here who actually have common sense look bad.
Cebe
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Originally Posted by Evilsod
Then the spirits... Wanderlust maybe, but Anguish, Dissonance and Disenchantment, just wtf. They were all a bit expensive... but they exist on the same frigging skillbar quite easily! Offensive spirits rits have just been stabbed in the back and had there ashes pissed on... i can now take 1 of the 4... what a shitty change.
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Exhaustion is too much for Ritualists. If a Rit has 40 energy, and an Ele has 80 energy, 10 exhaustion looks like nothing on an Ele...on a Rit, it's one quarter of the energy bar grayed out...and that stings. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to make exhaustion calculate itself based on your maximum energy. 2 casts of Ancestor's Rage is crippling...although at least Glyph of Energy could be used with that...then again...look where you have to go just to cap that.
I didn't think the exhaustion would prove too much of a problem until I tried using my current builds. They'll all need to be drastically changed while I hope for the exhaustion situation to be vastly toned down.
QoH
Anet please fix Keen Arrow on next skill update(either the skill description or the skill), thx
Evilsod
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Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
I just tried using a Communing build. One exhaustion-causing ritual is "ok"...two is pretty nasty...and even just using 2 means you'd have to wait for 60 seconds for a full energy bar..
Exhaustion is too much for Ritualists. If a Rit has 40 energy, and an Ele has 80 energy, 10 exhaustion looks like nothing on an Ele...on a Rit, it's one quarter of the energy bar grayed out...and that stings. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to make exhaustion calculate itself based on your maximum energy. 2 casts of Ancestor's Rage is crippling...although at least Glyph of Energy could be used with that...then again...look where you have to go just to cap that. I didn't think the exhaustion would prove too much of a problem until I tried using my current builds. They'll all need to be drastically changed while I hope for the exhaustion situation to be vastly toned down. |
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| Anet please fix Keen Arrow on next skill update(either the skill description or the skill), thx |
Retribution X
WTB Item spell that causes no skills to cause exhuastion.
geepers! Glad I put my rit up a few days ago.
geepers! Glad I put my rit up a few days ago.
thor hammerbane
Mixed Feelings I Must say, But overall, I think A-Net thought about it.
Mes: Echo and CoF..Must start using them more.
Necro: About time they got a nerf. Anti-Meelee was much too simple. But necromances, don't despair, there are still plenty of anti meelee options.
Ele: Glyphs and Rodgorts look tasty. About time those blindbots got nerfed! Finally I don't need to be afraid to run warrior
Monk: Remove Hex..Yes! As for the aegis nerf, was a bit excessive in my opinion. A good mesmer with mirror of disenchantment and an interrupt can shut down an aegis chain quite easily, no need to murder the skill to this extent.
Warrior: Best part of update. I can finally use For Great Justive and Crude Swing. Merci!
Rit: Made a rit yesterday, bad timing I suppose. Necessary though. Too many spirit spammers and rit spikes. Oh well, I'll Manage.
On the Whole, TY!
Mes: Echo and CoF..Must start using them more.
Necro: About time they got a nerf. Anti-Meelee was much too simple. But necromances, don't despair, there are still plenty of anti meelee options.
Ele: Glyphs and Rodgorts look tasty. About time those blindbots got nerfed! Finally I don't need to be afraid to run warrior
Monk: Remove Hex..Yes! As for the aegis nerf, was a bit excessive in my opinion. A good mesmer with mirror of disenchantment and an interrupt can shut down an aegis chain quite easily, no need to murder the skill to this extent.
Warrior: Best part of update. I can finally use For Great Justive and Crude Swing. Merci!
Rit: Made a rit yesterday, bad timing I suppose. Necessary though. Too many spirit spammers and rit spikes. Oh well, I'll Manage.
On the Whole, TY!
LifeInfusion
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Well I wont lie its not an easy build to run and its definitely not a 1,2,3 build.
Play around with the Zashain elite guys for a little with it. Usually ull start with Nightmare weapon and dual shot, then imediatly hit with choking gas. then you can goto splinter/barrage when that gets done hit ignite arrow, nightmare weapon, then dual shot. And then its basicaly rinse and repeat. But thats the basics of it. Now the reason to use nightmare and dual shot on first hit is you will get hit some if you dont get the first shot off so using a long bow is a plus gives you time to get in a little more with choking gas. |
Choking gas --> Wilderness Survival (prep)
Splinter weapon --> channeling magic
Barrage --> removes all preps
Ignite arrows --> Wilderness Survival (prep)
Dual shot --> unlinked
Distracting shot --> expertise
Res
Anyone else see a major flaw in reasoning?
* Only NPCs stand clumped in splinter barrages...
* Barrage + preps = wtf
* Choking gas needs Practiced stance to actually last a decent amount of time, otherwise it is best to just use savage shot or the like (especially with no IAS)
* Ignite arrows is pitiful and nobody stands in it
The amount of micromanagement is insane first of all...and preps require 2 activation so you cannot "immediately" hit with choking gas.
Having to apply all those buffs means effectively you aren't attacking most of the time...might as well just run a beastmaster.
Frantic-Sheep
Why do people calculate "to get back on full energy".. if you're fighting you shouldnt actually be on full energy (with few exceptions). Exhaust will only hit you when you spam the skills and/or load more than 2 on the bar tbh (2 can be hard enough). Its a choice you make during play: Should I hit him once more, or should I wait for the right moment and save me an exhaust...
the_jos
Time for me to comment on the Aegis change (I quit reading at page 10, so perhaps someone already beat me to this).
I am the current guild leader of a HM dedicated guild.
Before HM, we used to play Deep several times a week (and fast).
When I don't play my mesmer, I play monk. That's several hours a day at the moment.
I can't even recall the time we as guild team used Aegis in HM.
Even in Deep HM, we don't use Aegis.
Stating that the Aegis change is bad for PvE and specially HM says a lot about the team build and the way people play.
I am the current guild leader of a HM dedicated guild.
Before HM, we used to play Deep several times a week (and fast).
When I don't play my mesmer, I play monk. That's several hours a day at the moment.
I can't even recall the time we as guild team used Aegis in HM.
Even in Deep HM, we don't use Aegis.
Stating that the Aegis change is bad for PvE and specially HM says a lot about the team build and the way people play.
Cebe
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Originally Posted by the_jos
Stating that the Aegis change is bad for PvE and specially HM says a lot about the team build and the way people play.
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I personally like the Aegis change. For PvE the range isn't that important as people don't spread out too much...and the reduction in energy cost is always nice.
Sophitia Leafblade
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Originally Posted by QoH
Anet please fix Keen Arrow on next skill update(either the skill description or the skill), thx
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Lol @ Powershot. Point Blank and its clone get a nice buff for them which was much needed now how about actually making Powershot useful? or maybe some of the other bow attacks?
Say whats with the constant Buffing of adrenaline Gain with every skill update?? Might as well make Warrior skills totally free.
SpeedyKQ
The Aegis change seems like a big nerf for PVE to me. Aren't you supposed to keep the frontline out of your aggro bubble when monking?
Sheriff
As I mentioned somewhere else, I just find it strange that the communing tree has virtually no useful elite besides Wanderlust and what does ANET do? Nerf Wanderlust and keep all others the same (or worse)
Evilsod
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Originally Posted by the_jos
Stating that the Aegis change is bad for PvE and specially HM says a lot about the team build and the way people play.
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Wont matter to the rest of the casters, Rangers and Paragons... but the Assassins, Dervish's and Warriors will probably notice.
Miral
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Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
Nightmare weapon --> channeling magic
Choking gas --> Wilderness Survival (prep) Splinter weapon --> channeling magic Barrage --> removes all preps Ignite arrows --> Wilderness Survival (prep) Dual shot --> unlinked Distracting shot --> expertise Res Anyone else see a major flaw in reasoning? * Only NPCs stand clumped in splinter barrages... * Barrage + preps = wtf * Choking gas needs Practiced stance to actually last a decent amount of time, otherwise it is best to just use savage shot or the like (especially with no IAS) * Ignite arrows is pitiful and nobody stands in it The amount of micromanagement is insane first of all...and preps require 2 activation so you cannot "immediately" hit with choking gas. Having to apply all those buffs means effectively you aren't attacking most of the time...might as well just run a beastmaster. |
haha i love it!
attitude towards ritspike: lol that build sucks it doesn't require any skill nerf it
attitude towards other builds: lol that build sucks its too hard to play
ahh, gotta love nerf herders
I'd really like to see the builds some of the nerf herders run.
lacasner
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Originally Posted by Miral
haha i love it!
attitude towards ritspike: lol that build sucks it doesn't require any skill nerf it attitude towards other builds: lol that build sucks its too hard to play ahh, gotta love PvPers I'd really like to see the builds some of the nerf herders run. |