Whats the point of causing exhastion to a ritualist?

Just before the nerf I would take my rit into RA for some spirit spamming fun. The most important thing to think about was keeping the spirits in an optimum position. Lots of thought went into moving them around. Moving the aggressive ones forward at every opportunity and keeping them away from walls so the monk could have room to kite. However I did keep two egg timer programs open on my computer to keep track of wanderlust and restoration, so I could use gaze of fury on them at the best time and recast them, so I guess I was kinda waiting for them to die. But it was great fun to play and play against as well.

This was the build the very aggressive spirit spam build I used pre-nerf for RA, it could use some fixing up now so have a look.

Communing 12 (11+1)
Channeling 14 (10+1+3)
Spawning Power (10+1)
-----------------------------------------
Restoration- team wide hard rez spirit, it really is a self rez too cause they might not rez yo in RA so this way you rez yourself
Bloodsong
Pain
Wanderlust
Gaze of Fury - (this is a key skill , it is used to convert enemy spirits to your side and to destroy Restoration on demand when a team mate dies)
Draw spirit - is used to bring recuperation into range of fallen team mates. and to bring a spirit into the action quickly when it is too much pressure to lay a new one just move the old one.
Ancestors rage- if you or teammate get surrounded and to support tank
spirit burn - for self defense and added pressure when your team gets the upper hand

edit: i quoted the wrong person sry.Post is fixed now

who said anything about only working in pve? *shrug* What works becomes popular. what becomes popular is nerfed. best bet is to keep it from becoming popular, and the best way to do that is to not share it.

Umm...I just need to ask..how is killing these few skills (Imo, you can still use a few of them) killing rits? I'm dying to know this.

I read about differing opinions going back and forth about the change and I find that I agree with parts to both sides. However, it's attitudes like this person's comment that grates on my nerves. The GW player base is pretty diverse so who are you to suggest what is or is not FUN to other players. There are times I like to play my BP ranger and do next to nothing except hit 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1. As lame as it may seem to you, I have FUN with it, so try to be more open minded please.

Well nothing rits can do in PvP would be worthy of a nerf in any case. Not anymore anyway..

Point taken though.

binding rituals arent spells, so gg to you :P

id say buff wanderlust somehow (cast/damage/no exhaustion varibles)

wielders strike, exhaustion if the bonus damage is done

disenchantment, notsure how many people used that on in pve, probably not many

if i can ill play through abit of nf with one of my rits, see how it plays out abit more, i might actully prefer exhaustion over 25e paper bag spirits

I would say by the fact that most of what is left for a rit to do now can be done better with another class. When there is nothing of any use for a class to do it becomes dead. The sad part about this is that it doesn't even affect my PvP builds that much, it removed one part time skill that I would use. My PvE builds are hurt a whole lot more though. It really is just a lazy fix for the ritspike problem. A problem that I just have to add that doesn't even affect 10% of the guild wars player base.

Not to mention the "PvP" recommended solution to the "PvE" summoning problem does not "fix" the exhaustion from summoning those spirits. They fail to understand the difference between a "binding ritual" and a "spell". Well thats PvP elitism at its best you wonder if some people actually learn the game or do they get all their builds from PvX?

For those who don't understand what I refer to I point to posts like this one.

Touche, my mistake, I wont even edit the post to hide that I was wrong. Nonetheless I believe Glyph of energy might work on the SPELLS that cause exhaustion for rits, hell, try to think of something, thats all I was doing. I'm just sick of people being on their pedestals because they doesn't have enough Kleenex to cope w
ith the nerf that doesn't allow their previous build to be ran as well now.

Nerfs happen, get over it. Try something different.

I think my favorite quote was "Channeling is like Air magic" It hits hard enough that it needed a nerf, there were 2 options (Well, probably more) for this nerf.

1) cookie cutter nerf- reduce dmg, lengthen cool down
2) the try-something-new nerf- TRY SOMETHING NEW (add exhaustion to the EXTREMELY powerful skills utilized by channeling)

Izzy could've obviously done number 1, but I really like that the nerf was a new idea. I think its not only ignorant, but childish to call a game programmer with a new idea a "moron."

My recommendations to all people that can't cope with a NERF: don't buy GW:2 it will DIFFER from GW, thus, might upset you. If you just stay with this GW, you'll soon never have to worry about updates, and you can PvE/spirit spam to your little heart's content.

I believe the point was to piss off as many PvErs as possible. Could be wrong though. First time for everything I guess.

why not make a rule that only so called 'balanced teams' are allowed in HA and GvG?
players find a way to win with necros, then necros are nerfed, when players find a way to win with rit team, then rits are nerfed

i feel boring to see "balenced team" all the time

the true overpowered class is monk, you see monks all the times and they are not replaceable, the most overpowered skill is LoD, all teams have this skill

There's certainly been some good opinions put here. My own favourite and mostly played class is Ritualist. I haven't even gotten out in the field yet, and my first question is "Why have they added exhaustion to binding rituals??". If they were to keep this real and fair for Rts, then I would like to see HSR and HCT effects applied to binding rituals. Dunno how they'd justify it (probably with the same magic that justified the exhaustion being applied to the BRs in the first place), but this would help make it fair for me, with even the obvious bonus to the other BRs. Otherwise, please don't make this permanent.

In regards to the rest of the debate, this does make me wonder if "exhaustion is the new balancer", which is fine as long as Rt isn't alone in it. As they're putting exhaustion on non-spells, all of the classes are equally valid to be "updated" like this. The main benefit I can see from this is in creating more original skills: it has seemed to me that with each new campaign skills have become more and more mirrored with little ingenuity. With the current limitations (no new classes, no more releases after GWEN), they're probably going to depend on these conditions to create more novel and unique situations.

Back to Ritualists:
I don't like the idea someone here mentioned that this will push more Rts to become Rt/Es - it's just a bit too bland. I think the same poster also mentioned that Rts will struggle a bit to be accepted into teams unless they are conforming to this build or supplementing their exhaustion some other way. Frankly, after Factions came out it was hard for me as an Rt to be accepted because non-Rts didn't see the strengths in it. Seems to me that it's been only this year that Rts are finally gaining the respect they deserve (as non-spiritspammers, too, mind you), and yet now it seems their strengths are being weaned off.

As for the MM vs Trapper vs Spiritspammer debate: At least each of them had their strengths AND weaknesses nicely balanced. Will MMs and trappers get exhaustion, too? Even the Necro is better equipped for exhaustion with their Soul Reaping than the Rt ever is.

I'll stop you there. I'm fairly certain that GoE is Prophecies only. So to play a Spirit spammer, a Factions class, you have to own at least two chapters, according to your idea. Two, GoE isn't a Ritualist skill. Like I've said, Elementalists were created with skills that caused and effected exhaustion, which is why its fine for them to have it (that and 2x the energy of everyone else). Ritualists were first created not having any native exhaustion skills. The class wasn't built with the idea that they were going to have to deal with it. Adding exhaustion now is foolish.

Yay, another learn2postnub1!1!!

Not true, Many people with limited pools would run gale, and even spam it in dire cases (to gain the upper hand). You just need to learn when to use exhausting skills and when not (too much). A perfect viable monk build can do with 25-30 energy, so why another profession could not do with 32/37 energy temporarily instead of 42/47?

Ancestor's Rage and Wielder's Strike...
I don't spirit spam, so that was no big deal to me, but those? 5 Energy and it causes ... exhaustion? Come on.
Want to nerf those? Increase the Energy cost, increase the recharge, increase the casting time, but Exhaustion? I just don't see how that one got to see the light of day.

GloryFox is right. This is setting a bad precedent.

And they have almost all 5 energy skills. Or should have.

monks have a veritable shitload of very powerful 5e spells

Gotta say it. Equinox for the win. lol sorry guys, but as far as I am concerned now that Rits get exhaustion. My ranger just got 10 fold better again...

Although it is worth noting that as far as Rits in PvE goes, They have always had options for moving around spirits, so they do not have to spam them every time... so the exhaustion in those cases should be rather minimal for that build... Ancestors rage is. a yadda yadda, I used it naturally, but there are other equally good skills that you can use instead. If not from Rits then from your secondary... that is unless your a rit/mo which is almost a redundancy in classes... I'm actually surprised more people do not use rits to their fullest potential with restoration... I have found its sometimes a good trick to have the Monks go Spell breaker/smite and a Rit go Restoration for the team... It really confuses the spikers at times...

Most spells that have exhaustion are quite cheap too, while skills like glowing gaze/SoLS/essence strike/offering of spirit etc are not available too monks due the way they play. However, they are to offensive classes. Rit spells are cheap too: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Rituali...uick_reference and only very few come with exhaustion.

Edit:to supllement, its not the pool that matters, its the emanagement that matters taking temporarily 10 e away from the cap is better then expensive spells, If you don't have a full bar you don't waste energy on exhaustion, if u use that spell in that case you must have chosen it was worth it (in the case of a 5e exhaustive spell) energy managment>energy pool

I asked a reasonable question. What is your problem? Can you not answer with civility?

Why did they do this? The spike was done with Wielder's Strike, wasn't it (even though I play a Rit, I have never Rit spiked)? Not only were they the only AoE skills Rits have, but they are also two of the best damage skills Rits have that are unconditional.
Still, I believe that the nerf to Ancestor's Rage was coming. They slowly upped the damage, and i think decreased the recharge, until they decided to nerf it to hell again.

You are right. Mind Burn doesn't provide the damage it used to. It's burning duration is still good, (i think) though.

I think that the nerf to Wielder's Strike is a good idea, but not implemented properly. Instead of giving exhaustion, why not just lower the numbers a little bit? Anyway, I think the problem is if there is any skill that deals direct damage (that is high enough), it will be used for a spike.
With the Xinrae stuff, the skills had a huge energy cost that made it rather unusable. I guess lowering the energy cost and adding exhaustion was something that the skills needed to make them more mainstream.

NO, traps are easily interrupted, and have to stepped on.
minions need corpses.
SPIRITS HAVE LONG RECHARGE AND LONG CAST TIME AND CAN BE KILLED

Why the hell is everyone saying "use glyph of energy!"?!!!
First of all, it doesn't even work on spirits, noobs! It only works on spells! So yes, Ancestor's Rage, but no, Dissonance!
Second of all, it ELITE. You can't use it with Wanderlust, or Xinrae's Weapon. So screw it.

I just noticed, maybe not too brilliant thing, that A.Net can't nerf. I mean, they can NERF TO THE HELL!! but not just nerf. They didn't make playing Ritspike more challenging than counting "3, 2, 1, SPIKE BOOM 2k DAMAGE", rathen making it "WHERE IS MY ENERGY... CAN'T SPIKE!".

No, seriously, thing about it. Remember the nerf to Spirit Bonders? A.Net instead of making Spirit Bond easly - interrupted (1 second cast?), just like SoA, they wanted to make it not usable in PvE at all.

Another NERF NERF NERF!, Boon Prots. Don't lie yourselves, it was too hard nerf. Who has seen any boon prots after many nerfs to Inspiration Spells? Or anyone using Mantra of Recall or Reveal/Inspired Hex? No. Because it wasn't usable at all - One hex for 20 seconds? Woowowowowow.

Another - Bestial Fury and Tiger's Fury... Was it really needed? With RaO they got lost in the mists of time and I guess that people see it on some monsters, that don't know they got nerfed.

And yet another, forgotten skill - Avatar of Grenth. Players suggested something like Order of Apostaty or the Assassin elite skill from Crit Strikes, so with removed enchantment Dervish would pay in health/energy. But noo, why? Make it unusable and lower it's duration. Yay, now we have a cool skill, but it's inactive for 3/4 of fight.

You know, you CAN nerf something so it's still usable, without making it useless. Searing Flames, Blackout, Steady Stance... But you like to do this The Easier Way :/

The bottom line problem is the ritualist class is better able to handle the 25 energy spells than exhaustion. A good ritualist had no problems with several 25 energy skills on their bars. They could not spam them, but they didn't have to spam them. They did have the option to reset the spirits if necessary, which is something exhaustion prevents.

The channeling skills should have been reduced in damage but also reduced in recharge time to push them into pressure skills instead of adding exhaustion.

I still think the problem resides in the nature of the pvp environment than with the skills. A standardized system of builds that would rotate every so many weeks based on player votes would go a long way to preventing skill bar exploitation. Let's face it, another overpowered build is only a few weeks away. At least a standardized system would allow skillful players to win because of their play ability instead of losing to some less skill player's exploited build.

Hmm... My ele's 120 energy, or my rit's 40 energy.

And yet the ele is the one with Exhuastion management. hmm. What a twisted joke.

Xinraes weapon sucked, didn't need to be nerfed to hell even more.

WTF is up with Anet? "Lets buff the skill so people use them, just to hear them complain when we nerf them for the hell of it." What?

With my rits 4 energy regen, exhuastion is like making the skills cost 40 energy more.

yaaay another person with a brain! *gold star*
all those posts of "10e + exhaustion is better than 25e noob" make me laugh. idiots.

oh and actually, the next two overpowered builds have already been made and tested and work really well O.O they just haven't hit mainstream yet (and no I didn't create them, just saw them being tested)

Don't forget to mention the fact that Glyph of Energy is a Prophecies skill.

what non elite energy management allows u to plonk down 25e spirits whenever u want?:\

Boon Of Creation + 15sec delay.

i dunno about "whenever u want", but even without any emanagement its still far more flexible than 10e+exhaustion thanks to a passive +4e-regen. as for emanagement.... energizing wind would work good on a spirit build

or that lol... hmmm combine the two for 5e spirits....

If all you play are PvX builds you would not consider this but Offering of Spirit + Boon of Creation. This allows you to plot down 25E skills as often as you can cast them.

PROTIP: You are not the first person to think of using Boon of Creation and some energy management.

More to the point: why would you want to though?