All item duplication exploit (do not name players please) - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Diablo???

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

SPQR

N/R

14 Aug 2007 at 01:57 - 1001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passive Keke

Of course its mainly their fault wow, if you leave all your windows and doors open and go away for 2weeks and your house gets robbed, your asking for that right? so imo its 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other and therefore unfair to bann people for this. This has nothing to do with morals and ethics etc because its a game and making people pay money for this game and banning them even though your slightly to blame is totally unfair.

The duping process isn't a glaring "open window", if it was we would've spotted this from day 1. This was a highly complex method involving multiple computers and accounts.

Someone using a crowbar to pry open your front door to steal your money doesn't mean it's "your" fault.

The Herbalizer

<3 Ecto

Join Date: Jul 2005

14 Aug 2007 at 01:59 - 1002

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passive Keke

Firstly how do you think it was discovered that you could dupe items, clearly by accident. Secondly how can i be misinformed about the first market crash, i was their and got rich. Next your acting like this is on such a large scale to events such as the first market crash. A very small amount of people were affected by the first market crash and no one got banned but people got rich, and a very small amount are affected now.

Um there is a big difference between walking up to a trader and buying a few materials and having multiple people and account participate in what is clearly a bug to obtain items which they should not have.

There are multiple reasons why all the materials could be cheap. And from what I understand they gradually rose in price as more people bought them. So to someone uncertain of what was going on it would not appear "that bad" seeing ecto for a couple of k.

Now contrast that with:-

Getting thread computers and getting two separate accounts to enter a mission, then getting one to disconnect and rejoin in the town on a different computer, then rejoining the mission on the original computer which got the disconnect and trading with the friend etc etc etc.

The first problem could have been rolled back and it is alot unfairer to ban people for buying materials from the trader. The current problem cannot and players with 100+ million gold cannot be allowed to keep that. The first trader reset did not net the people purchasing materials anywhere near that amount. And the trader reset did not completely destroy a section of the economy e.g. limited mini pets & armbraces.

Edit: Diablo said it better than me: -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo™

The duping process isn't a glaring "open window", if it was we would've spotted this from day 1. This was a highly complex method involving multiple computers and accounts.

Someone using a crowbar to pry open your front door to steal your money doesn't mean it's "your" fault.

Oofus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

Cold Hard [CASH]

14 Aug 2007 at 02:02 - 1003

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passive Keke

Of course its mainly their fault wow, if you leave all your windows and doors open and go away for 2weeks and your house gets robbed, your asking for that right? so imo its 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other and therefore unfair to bann people for this. This has nothing to do with morals and ethics etc because its a game and making people pay money for this game and banning them even though your slightly to blame is totally unfair.

Nobody left any doors open, these people chainsawed their way through the wall. Wow are you really so devoid of morals that you actually believe what you just said? I'm embarrassed for the people who raised you, surely these where not the values they attempted to instill in you.

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

14 Aug 2007 at 02:05 - 1004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passive Keke

Firstly how do you think it was discovered that you could dupe items, clearly by accident. Secondly how can i be misinformed about the first market crash, i was their and got rich. Next your acting like this is on such a large scale to events such as the first market crash. A very small amount of people were affected by the first market crash and no one got banned but people got rich, and a very small amount are affected now.

I was also around that day. You are misinformed about the overall consequences of that event, regardless of the benefits to yourself.

A lot of people were up in arms on the day of the trader reset, as I recall. Keep in mind that people with a lot of ectos had 2/3 of their "on-paper" hoard wiped out. I didn't have any at the time (I was just getting going on 55 at the time), so I wasn't as ill about it as some people.

There are several problems this time around, and if you'd taken the time to read through the thread you might be aware of them:

1) God only knows how long this has been going on. It's theoretically been possible since December; evidence suggests it's been going on for a month or longer. What is ANet going to do about the ersatz items? Are they detectable? Will they be removed, and if so what will be the mechanism?

Pretty much anyone that bought or sold a high-end weapon, minipet or ectoplasm in the last month or two would like to know the answers to those questions.

2) A significant share of the Asian minipets was snapped up by the dupers in the last few weeks. Presumably those minis are now on accounts that have been drilled with the banstick. How many (Kanaxai/Panda/etc.) are still out there? Are there more, fewer, or about the same given duplication?

3) What's the plan with the Armbraces, given the sheer number of them that are now floating around which we know to be fake?

4) Can reconnect be implemented in such a way that this sort of abuse can be prevented?

You dismissively scoff and say that it's fine for people to take advantage of an exploit. Which may be true when no one gets hurt...it's just that here some people got hurt pretty bad.

How would you feel if you were a guy like undeadgun that traded his mini panda for stuff that's now worthless? You'd probably feel pretty bad, right?

Get some empathy. WTB a soul for Keke, PST.

Diablo???

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

SPQR

N/R

14 Aug 2007 at 02:05 - 1005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passive Keke

My point is the first time the economy crashed and was EXPLOITED <<<KEY WORD HERE, they banned no one and it inflicted alot of damage this is no different as far as i can see

You're talking about the Ecto crash, that my friend... is a glaring "open window." It's their fault, and they know it.

This dupe-a-licious market madness, is not a SMALL problem, and it's NOT their fault. A group of mallicious players decided to see how far they can bend the rules, and now they broke it completely.

Passive Keke

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2007

Dont Panic Just Resign [boO]

R/

14 Aug 2007 at 02:07 - 1006

I wouldnt feel bad if i lost all my items i would just quit this amazingly well structured GAME

Diablo???

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

SPQR

N/R

14 Aug 2007 at 02:08 - 1007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passive Keke

I wouldnt feel bad if i lost all my items i would just quit this amazingly well structured GAME

And no one will miss you.

powercozmic

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

The Cosmic Ocean

DVDF

Me/

14 Aug 2007 at 02:08 - 1008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Just FYI: We will not be doing a rollback. There is no need to do so. We banned a significant number of players involved in the exploit, and we're continuing to research to ascertain whether other bans will be necessary. But according to Mike O'Brien -- who oughta know

-- we won't need to do a rollback.

So is this a perma-ban ?

Eric Clapton

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2007

CS

P/

14 Aug 2007 at 02:08 - 1009

Reader of this post I would like to say that we have the next Socrates in our midst. With logic to spare he has schooled me in the art of argument and shown me the way. I will never look at EULA's as binding or legal and will try to scam people and feel no remorse. Yes the new awesomest person ever is none other than....... Passive Keke. Now if only we could all be like him the human race would have ended bout 10 years after we first stood on two legs and there would be no Guild Wars to bicker over and no people with a million Armbraces.

But seriously how can you say believe anything you have written Keke?

AngeloM3

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2006

RI

Diciples of Rage [RAGE]

14 Aug 2007 at 02:08 - 1010

I was the first person to pm Gaile about Chunky...

I PM'ed her 2 weeks ago to let her know that last night Chunky was going to exploit Armbraces. Take that!

hallomik

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

The Illini Tribe

N/Mo

14 Aug 2007 at 02:10 - 1011

Does anyone know for sure what Anet is doing about this?

Are they reviewing logs to see who actually did the duping?

Are they banning all who have high numbers of Armbraces in their inventory?

Are they banning all who ever had high numbers of Armbraces in their inventory?

Is no-rollback confirmed by Anet?

Does this mean those who duped just ectos will get away with it?

When is the last time we heard something official from Anet?

Dim Luffs To

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2007

Indy Bitch

Forgot The Ghostlyyyyyyyy [ftl]

N/Mo

14 Aug 2007 at 02:11 - 1012

i would miss passive, even if he is a smelly cow.

not the point though.

The point is anet has solved this problem, most armbrace dupers got their account banned with the scammed items still on it. yes some duped once were released and some people will get awy with it, but oh well thats life. Sometimes robbers get away in real life. its just the way things go. Hell i would welcome a lower armbrace price and so would most other people i know.

Point is, Anet has solved the major crisis and promsises to keep following up so as to catch anyone who got away. And yelling and ebitching probably is nto going to do anything imo.

max gladius

Yep, really is me...

Join Date: Aug 2005

My House

L33t

14 Aug 2007 at 02:13 - 1013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passive Keke

I wouldnt feel bad if i lost all my items i would just quit this amazingly well structured GAME

I doubt many ppl will are with ur departing... lets give it a try, starting with not posting here....

Eric Clapton

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2007

CS

P/

14 Aug 2007 at 02:16 - 1014

I just gotta say one more thing to all of you Anet bashers out there...Stop It! You have no clue how hard it is to keep a game with 4 million players balanced and working properly. They constantly have to watch the economy and try to catch people like the darn Armbrace dupers and if any of you out there thinks you can "do better" please post your darn resumes or else shut up.

dsnesnintendo

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

chinese food

N/Mo

14 Aug 2007 at 02:16 - 1015

i guess if you want a tormented weapon from now on

BUY GEMS ONLY(thou i guess some1(very slow duper instead of aot) could a duped those too)

sucks thou cause i was 90% on my way to getting the staff looks like i have to do yet another gloom run to get it

Sasuke The Betrayer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Los Angeles

Pink Pearl

Mo/Me

14 Aug 2007 at 02:18 - 1016

Uh... I'd rather not go through this long thread, but for those who don't know...

This update temporarily disabled the reconnect feature in the game to prevent further exploitation of a trade bug that allowed players to duplicate items using reconnection.

People that have disconnected in the past week or even month are being banned, for "exploiting" this dupe, but many probably had internet problems. I'm lucky I've been avoiding guild wars the past week or so, as I've been playing Battlefield 2. ^^.

unienaule

I dunt even get "Retired"

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

14 Aug 2007 at 02:19 - 1017

Unless someone wants to explain to me how CLICKING BUY AT THE TRADER is exploiting, further posts calling the trader reset an "exploit" will be deleted.

lacasner

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

14 Aug 2007 at 02:21 - 1018

Lawl unienaule..Is savio really worth 500k armbraces?

unienaule

I dunt even get "Retired"

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

14 Aug 2007 at 02:23 - 1019

Only when they were .01g each.

hallomik

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

The Illini Tribe

N/Mo

14 Aug 2007 at 02:25 - 1020

Thanks for the Gaile quote. This thread is getting incredibly long for getting information out of it. Would it be possible to create a sticky somewhere for what we know (versus rumors) about this situation?

maraxusofk

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

San Francisco, UC Berkeley

International District [id多], In Soviet Russia Altar Caps You [CCCP], LOL at [eF]

W/

14 Aug 2007 at 02:28 - 1021

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

There you go making accusations again. The only trades I make in-game are the things I have sold on GURU auctions. That's it. I play the game just like you. I don't care about making virtual money, and if you search around for other posts by me, you'll know that was the case.

However, I respect those who do find it fun to make money, or dabble with rare collectibles. If they wish to flash e-peen, or simply strive for the hard-to-get, that affects me not. So why bitch about it? That's my point. Why are you so concerned about Herb or anyone else like him that loves to collect? How does it affect you? It is not I, or anyone else that is upset by your words, it is you who is upset enough to post said words.

So yeah, this is entirely off-topic, and so is my post. We should both now go away. Deal?

LOL wow. as in the wise words of ZORGY, OPEN YOUR EYES.

all he is doing is trolling. best thing to do is not to feed him by stepping away from the cage and ignoring.

Xx_Sorin_xX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

W/

14 Aug 2007 at 02:31 - 1022

I'm a bit confused on how people are being banned for buying duped items.

Are they being banned for buying stacks? That i could understand, but are people being banned for buying 1 duped ambrace? What if a duper advertised they had one ambrace to sell for regular price and it geniunely looked like a real one? Unless of course they're only banning people buying stacks. Then it's not an issue.

Diablo???

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

SPQR

N/R

14 Aug 2007 at 02:40 - 1023

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xx_Sorin_xX

I'm a bit confused on how people are being banned for buying duped items.

Are they being banned for buying stacks? That i could understand, but are people being banned for buying 1 duped ambrace? What if a duper advertised they had one ambrace to sell for regular price and it geniunely looked like a real one? Unless of course they're only banning people buying stacks. Then it's not an issue.

Innocent players that were banned were part of an immediate intervention that was necessary to hault the on-going catastraphe. Gaile has said they're going back in retrospect to reinstate all the players that have their accounts wrongfully banned. Any players that feel their account was banned as such, will have them back if they notify the customer service.

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

14 Aug 2007 at 02:45 - 1024

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

Would it be possible to create a sticky somewhere for what we know (versus rumors) about this situation?

Quick and dirty summary of the story so far:

1. There was a dupe. It functioned via an exploit using multiple computers and the reconnect feature. ANet has patched and disabled reconnect for the time being as a result.

2. The dupe was discovered generally yesterday when people started offering silly numbers (1000+) of Armbraces for Asian minis.

3. It is unknown precisely how widespread the problem is. We know that the marketplace is flooded with ersatz Armbraces of Truth. Suspicions last month that a dupe existed (as people started posting to sell/trade larger quantities of armbraces than usual) were dismissed; duping may (or may not) have been going on quietly for a while now.

4. Gaile Gray indicated earlier that support was almost certain that no rollback would be needed.

5. The ban hammer started falling early this morning. Based on the experiences of those that confirmed the dupe to Gaile Gray via testing, it appears that the ban algorithm was targeted at people using reconnect to dupe (actions consistent with duping would have been pretty obvious in the logs). Gaile's most recent post (in another thread) indicates that they also nailed people with large stacks of armbraces, and that the actual number of people duplicating items was small.

Anything else remains speculation at this point.

lakatz

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

14 Aug 2007 at 02:58 - 1025

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasuke The Betrayer

People that have disconnected in the past week or even month are being banned, for "exploiting" this dupe, but many probably had internet problems. I'm lucky I've been avoiding guild wars the past week or so, as I've been playing Battlefield 2. ^^.

Not true. They're clearly banning on some other criteria than disconnects.

feisar84

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

14 Aug 2007 at 03:00 - 1026

hmm read 50+ pages or Martin's last post..

Thx Mate.

Dante the Warlord

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

W/R

14 Aug 2007 at 03:02 - 1027

Here my 2 cents:

well personally think that shouldn't exactly permanently ban the people, i know its unfair but it wasn't in the EULA i don't think. They SHOULD be banned until GW 2 comes out i personally think. Its a good punishment because by then not many people will be using the guild wars servers and there won't be a point to transfer the items to GW 2.

I also think that they should take out the armbrace dealer completely from the game after they ban all of the people. There will be a big increase in value to the armbraces since they won't be sold anymore, increasing the value for the people who truely earned them.

But thats just my personal opinion on how to deal with the dupers and this situation. Please don't flame me or anything

The Herbalizer

<3 Ecto

Join Date: Jul 2005

14 Aug 2007 at 03:12 - 1028

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

What "mass banning" are you describing? The numbers being mentioned in this thread are in the single digits. There has been no mass ban. Period.

Here is what we've done:

We've found the people who duplicated items. Their numbers were really quite small. We banned them.
We found the people to whom the duplicated items were given in large quantities. Their numbers were somewhat larger, but again, relatively few. We banned them.
We are examining records to see how far this extends. We may be banning more in the coming days, but we will most likely choose to not ban more than we will choose to ban. The decision is ours and will be based on a lot of factors, principal being whether it's reasonable to assume that the player knew he/she was getting ill-gotten goods.

We are quite sure that those players getting stacks and stacks of the most valuable item in the game realized that this largesse was not the result of the kind and generous spirit of a guild mate or friend. We're quite sure that those getting offers of 5 gazillion armbraces for item sales knew that something was wrong, and yet they made the sale anyway. It's obvious that certain players knew about the exploit, or suspected there was one. It's pretty easy to establish who such players were.

Did you think we'd never notice? Of course we noticed! Our recordkeeping is exceptionally detailed. You can't move a piece of gold from one bag to another without us knowing it. And as a result, those at the center of abusing this exploit were banned. That is as it should be.

The issue of someone selling a single ambrace to another innocent person, later on, is more complicated. The item was duped, but the buyer may not have been -- probably was not -- aware that he/she was buying a duped item. So, it's a matter of degree, intention, and knowledge. Do we ban the seller, with multiple stacks of 250 armbraces in inventory (or who handed off stacks to friends and guildies)? Yes! Do we ban the player who makes the one-off purchase -- an armbrace here, a couple of duped ectos there? It's not likely that we will.

Duplicating items is disallowed by the User Agreement under which each player is permitted to play Guild Wars. Getting stacks and stacks of free items -- or receiving ridiculous numbers of items for a sale -- must have pinged peoples' radars that "Hey, this can't be legit!" Just as receiving stolen property is a crime in the real world, this sort of act is disallowed in our game, and results in a ban.

Those who made an innocent purchase have very little to worry about. The accounts of those who were banned were examined with care and consideration, using extensive research to assure that the appropriate action was taken. It is highly unlikely that these players can successfully appeal their banning.

And if you're aware of someone who was involved, I invite you to report that player, for the good of the game.

From: -
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...95#post3042895

Dralspire

Retired

Join Date: Apr 2005

14 Aug 2007 at 03:17 - 1029

As this thread here has become quite long, I am closing it down. The discussion including comments from Gaile Gray continues here.