Less grind the more characters you own.

Queen is a group, not a person.

For those of you against this idea (especially those of you calling us lazy), how many characters are you playing ?

If you think this isn't a relevant question, look through this thread to see how strongly freekedoutfish objected. Now read the quoted post and ask yourself why he changed his mind.

/signed
My 7 characters thank the creators and supporters of this idea.

XDD, thank you.

But remember.

My idea it's not like bilateralrope's original idea. It's a slightly variation of that one for the direst detrators.

I have set two possible examples, but much more could be though of.
Both have in common that there would be NO KoaBD at level 1, the main reason I set up this thread.
The simple 'make them account wide' had the following problems:
*Level 1 KoaBD. (The max PvE account wide tiles are 4, Luck, Unlucky and Kurzick and Luxon, so currently that is not possible)
*Less favor.
*Easy HoM fillup.


To solve that, I made it so the titles won't get affected until the titles are increased to a certain rank.
With the first one, you get a leway for the rest of the characters every time you max the title with one.
* One character maxes. The next one has to grind less. And the net one less, and the next one even less. For example, 50k lightbringer for the first character, 25K for the 5th, 10k for the 10th, etc...
This one keeps the easier HoM fillup problem. Not as hard as with simple account-widing, and I don't really care about that, but, hey, if there are detractors, my duty is to make up another idea detractors would accept.


So I made up another one. With the second one, one character maxes a title, and the rest gain the benefits when they reach a certain tier of their own titles and level 20:
* Lockpick rate
* Salvage rate
* Green values in PvE skills
* Green values in title effects.
Just like all characters get Hard Mode at level 20 if another one finishes the game.

But they would keep their own titles, and would be able to increase them to get the rest of the rewards:
*Hero skill points
*Title effects
*Factions and Nightfall PvE skills.
*Titles added HoM
Just like all characters have to go through the game to get the last outpost.


The thing I would love (although it would have again the easy HoM fill-up) would be to mix these two. Getting the max for all, and having to grind less, after getting to level 20 and a certain rank of the title.


I like and support all of them, bilateralrope's, and both of mine. And I would like anything reducing the grind for the rest of the characters when you already maxed the titles with one already.
Grinding is the only boring thing in GW, and with people asking for ranks in PUGs, if you want to play with all characters it gets annoying.

So feel free to post your own ideas and discuss if there is something you don't like here.

/signed

123

/definitely signed

Wrong on multiple fronts.

The OP says that the other characters get the effects without the ability to enter them into the HoM. If you want HoM display, grind the title. If you want your R5 Lucky title to be used by your other characters, this is the way to do it. If you want to be able to take your new characters through NF, without grinding to R7 sunspear just to continue the story, this is the way to do it.

These types of titles are used for more than showing off. Sunspear/Lightbringer help your PvE gameplay, Lucky helps you get better loot from chests and salvaging, etc.

Well, that post of genofreek was before my last change.
With the 'second version' now it's outdated. But it was valid with the first.

That's why I made the second one.

But hey, if someone's light bulb turns on with a better way to reduce grind without giving things for free, post it!

Personnally i think that the HoM is deffective by design. Character based ?
I want titles to be shared amongst all characters, and a "hall of player accomplishments". Thus titles have to appear in the HoM, or they would, simply, dont have any interest for most players.
There are 2 reason to share titles: one for titles that have an effect on the game (asurian, LB, etc..). The second, to let players that play multiple characters to have a decent HoM for the incoming GW2...
With your proposition, it wont make much difference. We would still have to log a single character and grind thousands hours. It would be even more disapointing, considering you would have maxed your titles with your other chars ! And having to do it again is the grindest task i can imagine. No real difference with the actual situation (except fo LB.. say the easiest tiltes).

Yeah, I know. I'm like your for the almost complete 'removal'.

But this is better than nothing.

People always say titles shouldn't be easy to max but whats so hard about C spacebar C space bar.... I guess they mean all titles should require XX,XXX amount of hours becuase thats what it is. Titles really need to be balanced between skill plus time.

/sign

I actually really liked when they introduced titles to the game, liked even more titles that matter, that have effect on the gameplay, that allow character development past level 20.
Maxing the titles once is a great fun, even the harder grind-ish ones. But having to repeat all that for every character to remain 'competetive' is ridiculous.

Anet shows no love for players with more than 1 character, absolutely zero help (stars of transference don't matter), they're only rewarding extreme dedication to one char. Don't want to play just one? You're screwed!

The titles that have PvE skills connected to them need an improved way of maxing if a character on the account already has the max rank of that title. Better if 2 characters got that maxed, etc. The way described in the OP is very fine.

Treasure Hunter and Wisdom should be Account-based just like Lucky/Unlucky are. Any sane person out there maxes those on one character then wants to max them for another? 99.9% players playing more than one char are screwed by having chests they open while playing other characters not count to the title, having to move items for identification to the wisdom char is also silly.

And the whole HoM should be account-based itself, this would remove a lot lot of different problems and would make it fair for everyone no matter the play style and when they started. So your Legendary Vanquisher doesn't have to be the same character that's Legendary Guardian and most importantly Legendary Survivor. Also, there should be no extra rewards in GW2 for having multiple pimped out HoMs, one is enough, again it would be rewarding repetetive grind and this is plain wrong.

/SIGNED, very well thought ideas.

If you have some maxed titles, this might seem like a good idea.

If you're a new player, this is a pretty bad idea. The problem is that you get no benefit until you max a particular title on at least one character. So after beating the game, rather than start a new character to try out a new class, your time is theoretically better spent taking your first character and grinding, grinding, grinding until you max the titles affected by this suggestion.

That way, all your later characters will get the benefit of the bonus.

Playing the game the way I did by taking each character through and getting rank 4-7 normally, means all of those characters get less than they would if I had spent hours upon hours grinding to the max on my first.

This creates a incentive to grind that I don't now personally see. I'm open to modifications to the original idea, but think this would be a net negative as proposed.

Hm... I think I have a third way. A very interesting one. Good too for both new and old players.

- 1. First, you count the points that all characters but the current one have earned for that rank, and add them up. We'll call that number the... 'summation', for example. Remember, all points earned for that rank in the account, except the points earned by the character.
For example: You have 4 characters, their respective Norn ranks are:
Gr: 15,000 points. (Summation: 66,000 points)
Mo: 1,000 points. (Summation: 90,000 points)
E: 75,000 points. (Summation: 16,000 points)
R: 0 points. (Summation: 91,000 points)
In other words, the 'total of the account' minus 'the current character's rank'.

- 2. Then, you compare the 'summation' points with the table for that rank:
For Norn rank:

- 3. And then, each character gets a of x% more points depending on its 'summation' until they max the title.
Once the title is maxed, the character loses the bonus.

It would affect points earned by doing things like killing single mobs, identifying an item or opening chests.

But the bonus won't affect 'bonus' points, like the ones earned by making missions or quests, killing bosses, finishing random bonus blessings, picking items (like easter eggs), or giving away books. Since they are already bonuses.

I'm not deciding the amount of the bonus, but I think that +100% bonus every 2 times the 'summation' reaches the max rank of that title would be good enough.
For Norn, for example, you'll get +100% points (double points per kill) every 320.000 points earned by all characters but the current one, so. In our example:
Gr: +20% points per kill.
Mo: +28% points per kill.
E: +5% points per kill.
R: +28% points per kill.

Now, imagine you get another character:
- A Me.
- You forget for some time about the other characters, and max the Norn title.
- Now, she gains no bonuses, since the title is already maxed. But her rank is added to the rest, of course.

With her, things end up like this:

Gr: 15,000 points. Summation: 236,000 points. Bonus: 74%.
Mo: 1,000 points. Summation: 250,000 points. Bonus: 78%.
E: 75,000 points. Summation: 176,000 points. Bonus: 55%.
R: 0 points. Summation: 251,000 points. Bonus: 78%.
Me: 160,000 points. Title maxed. No summation. No bonus.

So, what we have with this?

1.- The more points the character has compared with the rest, the less bonus the character receives. So it's other characters the ones helping the current one.
2.- The far from the rest a character is, the bigger the bonus is so the sooner the character matches the rest of the characters of the account.
3.- It doesn't matter if you 'spread' effort. All characters hep the current one. So changing to at least one other character could be better than just sticking with one. It's no good to stick with one profession. You can play better with a monk in you party if you have been a monk yourself, for example.
4.- The more characters have points, the higher the bonuses each character earns.
5.- You gain more and more points regardless of which character you favor, until you max with that title. A character may not get bonus once maxed, but may still earn points, and contribute to other characters 'summations' (Good examples are Lightbringer and Sunspear). So you'll keep contributin even once maxed.

Hm...maybe the current should be counted too...

Anyone complaining about grinding is making the choice to grind. To grind is an action. You can choose to play the game without grinding.

The only true grinding in GW is Sunspear and Luxon/Kurzick faction (as mentioned by thezed on page 1).

While I do have many characters and have to admit that I would also not like to have to repeat titles on each character, this is /unsigned for me because everyone keeps bitching about being "forced to grind titles" when they are freely choosing to play the game this way.

If you don't feel like grinding, stop it and go do something else in GW.


Ultimately, anyway... aNet is looking at each character as an individual. Why should my Dervish having met Asura reputation requirements effect my Necro's reputation? This doesn't make sense as they are two separate individuals.

When grinding is needed to get into groups, or to be more effective in playing the game, although it's a choice, it's choice that is either do or fail. People don't want to fail so they must then grind, which then removes the choice.

Also, people must grind in order to get the unknown benefits for GW2 via HoM. Due to that, people who hate grinding will grind in order to not be left in the dust, even though the "rewards" will probably things like a hat, that will act like the current festival hats, and other things, nothing that actually affects gameplay.

So while people do have a choice to grind, grinding is forced on them if they want to be any good or be up-to-speed with other players, therefore the option of being a choice is mostly removed. Only people who has this in mind, whether consciously or unconsciously, and do not care about being up-to-speed with other players or effective in playing the game, have the choice of grinding or not.

In other words, if you want to actually play the game and not just sit in LA talking to people and making arguments just for laughs, then you need to grind.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________

As for the suggestion, What I seem to agree with the most in terms of grinding titles would be:
1) Make Wisdom, Treasure Hunter, Drunkard, Sweet Tooth, and Party Animal all account based.
2) For Reputation titles, either make them account based changing the ranking system to that of the Kurzick/Luxon/Zaishen title tracks (except maybe Sunspear due to the early player requirements in the title), or once maxed on one character, make it easier on other characters to max. For making it easier, can either increase the amount of points earned via bounties, or let x character get y amount of points for z amount of characters having that title already maxed (i.e. max Norn on 1 character, gain -say- 500 points on one other character, max Asura on 3 characters, gain 1500 points on one other character)

In short, either make grind titles account based, or account affected, to reduce the grind, which is against ANet's original position on grind (should of mention that above too I suppose, as that is the main reason why people should hate grinding).

Yeah, you can decide to forget about some content which you paid for. Oh, so many choices. You can even choose to buy GW and not play it if you don't like it.

I don't like all of the ideas here, but I do like the basic concept.

I know a lot of players like playing their one single character. Maybe they don't like change, maybe they don't like variety, maybe they feel happier being the master of one particular play style rather than risking failure in trying another. Regardless of this the truth of the matter is fairly simple - this game punishes those who like to play multiple characters.

I have 15, yes 15 proper play characters. Yes I play all of them. Yes I have fun playing all of them. No I have no problem taking them through 4 campaigns. Protector, Guardian 15 times - no problem. What I don't agree with is the 15x grind necessary for point based/character based titles.

I really don't care that much about the solution. Be it an account based one or a "bonus" for subsequent characters. But this isn't hurting those who play their one pet character in any way, shape, or form. Furthermore given that the HoM tranfer to GW2 is now confirmed to be ACCOUNT BASED. This would not affect anyone or belittle any achievements.

/signed for concept

Yup. The main concept is to make faster to max various chacarcter, but keeping that taking more time that just one.

So if you focus in once character, you work like now.

If you have 10, you don't have to spend 10 times the same time, neither just 1.

And this is mainly for plot-based titles. Other grind titles could just simple turn account-based, like Wisdom.

Something that stops grinding?

/signed.

/notsigned

Not because its a bad idea, but because all stupid, mindless grinding should be completely removed from the game, not just made easier.

Something needs to be said in Guru about grinding. It exists and removing it all will not only not happen, but would be too big of a change. The idea suggested in this thread would be "step 1" to removing all grind.

That, is why I /sign this idea, again.

I am all for less grind, but with the HOM changes I'm not sure how the title display is going to work. Plus if you get less grind the more chars you have, I bet lots of people will be buying $10 character slots just for that. But still, I'll /sign it.

Well, the title is not quite well chosen.

But it would be more like "The more characters increase/max the title".

That is, if you just have 30 slots, that won't do nothing. You'll have to max th title or at least gain some ranks in various characters to make easier the grind for the rest.

Some people are saying that titles shouldn't be "easy" to max. Well too bad for you because they are incredibly easy to max, time does not equal effort/skill put into its objective. I'm sorry but pressing 1, 2, 3, 4 in worm/ursan to max lb/norn respectively for hours at a time isn't HARD, you can't tell me that a factory worker that repetitively assembles the door makes more money than a surgeon facing a myriad of responsibilities etc.

Why are we rewarding monotony and button mashing?

/signed

I HATE GRINDING!!!! I HAVE A LIFE!!!!!!

/signed

/signed. I would like to add some thoughts to the discussion (I've only read the first and last pages).

I especially like examples 2 and 3 of the original post..

In those examples, it isn't grinding, its getting points while playing the game. You aren't getting points for free, you earned them. This doesn't penalize people with just one or two characters because people with multiple characters are not given any advantages at gaining points: its still the same number of points per hour played. And it doesn't annoy people with many active characters like the current system. Furthermore, EotN seems to encourage repeating the campaign with the hero/dungeon books, why not make it a bit more fun and allow us to earn points by repeating the campaign with different professions?

This may not make plot sense at first blush. Why should one character get reputation points for what another does? I may be wrong, but I understand that the HoM works on the concept that GW1 characters are providing benefits to their GW2 descendants. With account based HoM, this only makes sense if all the characters on your account are basically a "family." And a family can have a reputation, just as well as an individual.

Of course, this may be too easy. It means a lot less work if you want high rep for skills on different characters. But lets face it: with account wide HoM, no one in their right mind will max rep titles on more than one person anyway. So this kind of change will not give anyone added benefits in GW2 and won't give advantage to certain styles of gameplay.

Others might argue that allowing others to get the title easier devalues their hard-earned titles. I may not be able to convince another person that they are wrong, they feel how they feel. However, the fact that the character that they grinded with basically maxes the title for all their other characters once their beat the game should sooth their egos. Take a hit for the team, man.

The 'devaluation' argument is invalid since a long time ago.

Everything devalues over time in games. Loot, armor, weapons, titles...

For GW, loot, armor and titles devalue because faster and easier ways to get them are 'discovered' or created by ANet (which would be 'solved' by reducing drops).
And equipment because the existing equipment does not disappear, so the more instances of an item are in the game, the less each one them costs (which would be 'solved' by requiring customization to equip the items).

What is true is that the 'family feel' is there in the game, with all the unlockings, and sooner more with the HoM update, and won't harm to make the family feel greater.
And is also true that once players max a grind title with a character, they feel like being done with that. Most people won't mind to make missions again with another character, or buying skills again, because they are done in many different places, so they are not as monotonous as doing the very same thing in the very same place again and again for being the fastest way. But grind titles? Ah... that's another thing.