Recently while I was playing my monk in PvP I had this feeling while a faced some Mesmer interrupters: an external program capable to sense you're using a skill and to interrupt you. I may say I could be paranoid or the mesmers can have a lot of lucky but when I got interrupted repeatedly on skills that cast in 3/4 of a second I start to think something is wrong. First of all because these kind of interrupts stop my skill at 1/3 of its cast costantly. Second because I try to randomize when I start to cast a skill, I tend to avoid sequencies of skills and wait random time between one cast and another or when I stop to run I dont cast suddenly after. But some mesmers get me always, it seems there is no way to avoid to be interrupted if not fake casting and being a monk I cant do that under pressure often. I mean if I've got migraine or wathever to slow me down it could be possible for such fast skills, but how can that be without? I'm talking also with the best interrupter out there (and I dont think I faced them so far): is that possible?
I repeat I'm not talking of a single skill or a bit of luck like a rof interrupted for example, I'm talking of a series of relatively fast skills that get interrupted costantly. Anybody else got this feeling? Anybody knows if such a program could exist?
Interrupter Bot Program, is it possible?
Alex Silverfox
??Ripskin
It's completely possible, maybe unheard of, but possible.
I've done some mesmering in my time (mainly against monks) and just watch the monks party members health drops, then I usually do interupts that I think 'are at the right time'
Sometimes I've hit spells like purge conditions o.O
I've done some mesmering in my time (mainly against monks) and just watch the monks party members health drops, then I usually do interupts that I think 'are at the right time'
Sometimes I've hit spells like purge conditions o.O
nightemaster
There probably is a possibility that a program like that exists, but it wouledn't be very effective in my opinion, because most memsers vary their interrupts. However, the better mesmers out there will know how to predict when you are going to make a spell cast. Also, interrupting 3/4 second spells isn't very hard considering that a interrupt spell like Psychic distraction is 1/4 casting time and even faster with fast casting.
The reason all your spells may seem like they're interrupting at 1/3 of the cast may be just because of lag.
The reason all your spells may seem like they're interrupting at 1/3 of the cast may be just because of lag.
fgarvin
Yes, there is/was a program called Requia that could do just about anything...including interrupt like a champ. For a while, users were even selling their accounts for it on eBay.
And no, I did not use it, but my nephew got the ever so deserved Code=045 for using it.
And no, I did not use it, but my nephew got the ever so deserved Code=045 for using it.
Alex Silverfox
I usually dont lag, I may have a stable connection with not a very low ping. I dont want to create mass hysteria but I'd like to spread this voice to see if others have or will feel the same. I know with fast casting a mesmer can reach in average 1/8 casting time but it's not that it's the human reaction. The advantage is still low if such a program may exist, but it's not like facing a human. I think 1/4 cast time skills are unreachable by that program, so they are missed, instead any other cast may be blocked. A human mesmer I think dont press the skill as soon as he see colors on the screen, he first understands wich skill is and if it's worth to be interrupted.
TheGuildWarsPenguin
I don't think you should worry about interrupt bot programs. Though they do exist, they would be hard to make/acquire.
placebo overdose
ok this is not a joke in AB ive seen two warriors who look the exact same and have the same skills running around killing(with low proficiency) mindlessly is this a bot program or really low player involvement
Antheus
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| First of all because these kind of interrupts stop my skill at 1/3 of its cast costantly |
Interrupter bot is possible. But the real question here is how viable is it.
Mesmer and ranger henchies are interrupt bots. But they lack common sense as to what and when to interrupt, they just spam them.
Interrupt spammer could annoy you in the same way without using a bot. Pack enough interrupts, take care of e-management, and keep on spamming.
Part of the problem here is the latency present in all network games. Since events need to be synchronized on the server, this may make some timings appear a bit off, and make it seem like someone has godly accurate reflexes, when it's actually the server syncing actions.
A trivial interrupt spammer would be quite easy to make. But that one would be exactly as effective as moderately alert player.
Making a strategic and tactically sound interrupter however would require complete knowledge of the team build, as well as keeping track of recharge times, possibly even energy levels of entire opposing team - information which, from player side cannot be obtained, except for a single opponent.
Simply put - it's doable to harass someone. But to have some severe impact on pvp - no.
Rainywinter
Interrupter Bots do exists. One of my friends showed me how it works, and now I really want to get a virus into his comp. Basically - those programs work simple. They identify spell casting, which is nothing in ms in compared to human brain, and simply activate the skill. Lag is probably the one and only factor. In anyway, if you randomly casted a 3\4 spell and got interrupted- unfortunately human's reaction time is not good enough - even for the most skillful player - to counter it. 3\4 spell is 750 ms. 1\4 interrupting spell is 250 ms. ping is 100 ms to receive your spell action and another 100 ms to send the interrupting spell back to the server. It means that the interrupter would have to understand you're casting a spell, realize its a spell, send an action to the fingers, click the button - all that will have to happen in 750 ms - 250 ms - 100 ms - 100 ms = 300 ms which is 0.3. The human brain is just not capable of that. Interrupter bots are usually good for up to 2\4 ms spells I suppose since they can do a counter in 200 ms (0.2 sec) + 250 ms interrupt spell (450 ms togther)
Retribution X
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rainywinter
Interrupter Bots do exists. One of my friends showed me how it works, and now I really want to get a virus into his comp. Basically - those programs work simple. They identify spell casting, which is nothing in ms in compared to human brain, and simply activate the skill. Lag is probably the one and only factor. In anyway, if you randomly casted a 3\4 spell and got interrupted- unfortunately human's reaction time is not good enough - even for the most skillful player - to counter it. 3\4 spell is 750 ms. 1\4 interrupting spell is 250 ms. ping is 100 ms to receive your spell action and another 100 ms to send the interrupting spell back to the server. It means that the interrupter would have to understand you're casting a spell, realize its a spell, send an action to the fingers, click the button - all that will have to happen in 750 ms - 250 ms - 100 ms - 100 ms = 300 ms which is 0.3. The human brain is just not capable of that. Interrupter bots are usually good for up to 2\4 ms spells I suppose since they can do a counter in 200 ms (0.2 sec) + 250 ms interrupt spell (450 ms togther)
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But pretty good math, except (correct me if I'm wrong), ping is calculated by the time it takes for a packet to be sent to the server, and a reply from the server to return.
nightemaster
I believe that the game compensates for lag in some way probably by letting you interrupt for a bit longer after the spell has finished casting. (All games with moderately competent programmers have some lag compensation in their netcode). Really, if you look at some of the better interrupters out there (observe), you'll see that they can easily interrupt 3/4 second spells. For example, when i play PD in HA, I almost always interrupt the ele's ward when its a little more than halfway done casting. (1 second cast time) (of course the skill progress bar isn't the most accurate thing out there)
Also, even with fiber optic cable, pings of 1ms are impossible to anet, because of speed of light limitations, router/switch delay and computer delay.
Also, even with fiber optic cable, pings of 1ms are impossible to anet, because of speed of light limitations, router/switch delay and computer delay.
undeadgun
depends on the mesmer, when i use mesmer such as a PD or PB mesmer, i always see the enemy caster's action, not see the skill proccessing under his name, so when i see him start to cast something(i think u should know that every caster even non caster use a non stance or non shout skill will do their own action), i will hit 1 immeditely, for all the 1 sec cast spell, i can say 95% time, for 3/4, maybe 60-70%. i am not saying there is no such bot program, but there are some mesmers are really really good at interrupt, Leeloof anyone??
HawkofStorms
Eh, even if they exist, they won't be used in true competitive play. Such a program would still not know how to do proper positioning or discriminate with what they interupt.
So no harm in the meta really.
So no harm in the meta really.
LifeInfusion
I laugh at this because if the Heros are any indication, bots cannot distinguish between which skills are actually juicy interrupt targets.
Besides, people that DO bot risk an account ban so they'd be pretty stupid to do so.
If you are pretty predictable on the other hand, it is easy to yomi what skills you will use next.
Besides, people that DO bot risk an account ban so they'd be pretty stupid to do so.
If you are pretty predictable on the other hand, it is easy to yomi what skills you will use next.
nightemaster
Quote:
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Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
I laugh at this because if the Heros are any indication, bots cannot distinguish between which skills are actually juicy interrupt targets.
Besides, people that DO bot risk an account ban so they'd be pretty stupid to do so. If you are pretty predictable on the other hand, it is easy to yomi what skills you will use next. |
MoldyRiceFrenzy
there are some pretty good interruptors out there... they just know exactly how to time stuff or are very good with reflexes...its completely possible
Master Ketsu
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Originally Posted by Rainywinter
Interrupter Bots do exists. One of my friends showed me how it works, and now I really want to get a virus into his comp. Basically - those programs work simple. They identify spell casting, which is nothing in ms in compared to human brain, and simply activate the skill. Lag is probably the one and only factor. In anyway, if you randomly casted a 3\4 spell and got interrupted- unfortunately human's reaction time is not good enough - even for the most skillful player - to counter it. 3\4 spell is 750 ms. 1\4 interrupting spell is 250 ms. ping is 100 ms to receive your spell action and another 100 ms to send the interrupting spell back to the server. It means that the interrupter would have to understand you're casting a spell, realize its a spell, send an action to the fingers, click the button - all that will have to happen in 750 ms - 250 ms - 100 ms - 100 ms = 300 ms which is 0.3. The human brain is just not capable of that. Interrupter bots are usually good for up to 2\4 ms spells I suppose since they can do a counter in 200 ms (0.2 sec) + 250 ms interrupt spell (450 ms togther)
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Their are plenty humans who can, and do, react that fast. Obviously if the lag is horrid they cannot, but with the ping you mentioned its entirely possible.
Skycluster
I don't know if this is true but..isn't making that skillbar activation thing extra longer help with interupting? I've actually never tried but I've seen some people have long bars in there screenie, does it actually help interupt? Only a suggestion...but 1/3 cast time is pretty whack. Was he using Shame? you could of mistake that for an interupt, i usually bring that in pvp.
Ghost Recon
Your paranoid there are loads of tricks out there interupt mesmer use and most monks you can read like a book after you have been interupting him for 30-40 seconds. Play an interupt mesmer for a bit learn how to play it well and you will become a better monk because of it.
Also gamers have some of the quickest reactions in the world. People who have played a lot of FPS make great interupters/infusers.
Also gamers have some of the quickest reactions in the world. People who have played a lot of FPS make great interupters/infusers.
neoflame
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Originally Posted by Master Ketsu
Ever played in high end ( top 100 ladder ) first person shooter tournaments ?
Their are plenty humans who can, and do, react that fast. Obviously if the lag is horrid they cannot, but with the ping you mentioned its entirely possible. |
Ghost Recon
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Originally Posted by neoflame
I think average human reaction time is faster than 300ms, never mind good FPS players.
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Pwny Ride
Everything that ghost recon said is true. I used to be horrid at monking in PvP, absolutely horrid. I already had a mesmer but wasnt too crash hot at interrupting, so ive been practicing and my ability at monking (i.e. being aware of surroundings moreso) has gone up. The same goes with Elementalist and Necromancer.
Of course i play mesmer more often now, every time i interrupt a skill, the sound brings music to my ears, and with each interrupt im getting better.
Fluke interrupts also have their use. Sometimes when playing a interrupt i use my 'intuition' and read the player's movements~
a) Because there is a breif animation before any spells that the enemy casts
b) The enemy will stop in order to cast something
c) The enemy's action patterns and predictability. For example~ If a monk was poisioned, they would be sure to remove the conditon, or if a monk is underdirect fire, they must heal to protect themselves, it can make it extremely easy to interrupt.
So personally, i doubt anyone would bother using any auto-interrupt programs, because they're chreap, and you wouldnt get the same satisfaction out of it as interrupting them yourself (which actually takes skill).
I've been the target of accusations like 'Omfg u r using interrupt bot noob', and i admit it is a laugh, but at the same time it's insulting. On the upper hand, if they yell at me, i know i'm doing my job.
Of course i play mesmer more often now, every time i interrupt a skill, the sound brings music to my ears, and with each interrupt im getting better.
Fluke interrupts also have their use. Sometimes when playing a interrupt i use my 'intuition' and read the player's movements~
a) Because there is a breif animation before any spells that the enemy casts
b) The enemy will stop in order to cast something
c) The enemy's action patterns and predictability. For example~ If a monk was poisioned, they would be sure to remove the conditon, or if a monk is underdirect fire, they must heal to protect themselves, it can make it extremely easy to interrupt.
So personally, i doubt anyone would bother using any auto-interrupt programs, because they're chreap, and you wouldnt get the same satisfaction out of it as interrupting them yourself (which actually takes skill).
I've been the target of accusations like 'Omfg u r using interrupt bot noob', and i admit it is a laugh, but at the same time it's insulting. On the upper hand, if they yell at me, i know i'm doing my job.
Age
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Originally Posted by neoflame
I think average human reaction time is faster than 300ms, never mind good FPS players.
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YunSooJin
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Originally Posted by Rainywinter
Interrupter Bots do exists. One of my friends showed me how it works, and now I really want to get a virus into his comp. Basically - those programs work simple. They identify spell casting, which is nothing in ms in compared to human brain, and simply activate the skill. Lag is probably the one and only factor. In anyway, if you randomly casted a 3\4 spell and got interrupted- unfortunately human's reaction time is not good enough - even for the most skillful player - to counter it. 3\4 spell is 750 ms. 1\4 interrupting spell is 250 ms. ping is 100 ms to receive your spell action and another 100 ms to send the interrupting spell back to the server. It means that the interrupter would have to understand you're casting a spell, realize its a spell, send an action to the fingers, click the button - all that will have to happen in 750 ms - 250 ms - 100 ms - 100 ms = 300 ms which is 0.3. The human brain is just not capable of that. Interrupter bots are usually good for up to 2\4 ms spells I suppose since they can do a counter in 200 ms (0.2 sec) + 250 ms interrupt spell (450 ms togther)
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plenty of pvp'ers who play mesmer and ranger in gvg are capable of 3/4sec cast interrupts. =P
Ghost Recon
3/4 second casts aren't hard to interupt, people can get 1/4 casts with a lot of practice and paying close attension to the monk.
Riot Narita
Are you sure you weren't Dazed, or hexed with Migraine, or something?
Ghost Recon
Just watch a monk in observer, obviously there is a degree of luck involved but monks more so prot tend to cast spell close together prot spirit -> rof if a monk continues to cast rof strait after, you can get it easy with an interrupt with practice. Also some monks tend to stop kiting for split second before they cast you have a small chance of getting an interrupt there.
Yanman.be
I can interrupt consistently 3/4 sec casts with a 1/4 sec cast interrupt under FC. The problem is to distinguish the INTERRUPT ME vs DO NOT WASTE ENERGY ON ME skills.
around
Although with some interrupts it doesn't matter as much what you hit as the secondary effect makes it worthwhile.
I'm looking at you Power Leak.
I'm looking at you Power Leak.
lemming
Good mesmers have both excellent anticipatory skills and reflexes.
Curse You
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Originally Posted by Pwny Ride
So personally, i doubt anyone would bother using any auto-interrupt programs, because they're chreap, and you wouldnt get the same satisfaction out of it as interrupting them yourself (which actually takes skill).
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Ghost Recon
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Originally Posted by Curse You
If you were right, no one would buy gold. But they do, because they don't play for the fun, they play because they want to be "uber 1337" and the only way they can do that is by cheating.
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Charlotte the Harlot
3/4 second casts are possible to do on reaction with a mes its easy, its tough on a ranger considering you have to be able to tell what the spell is and hit your skill in under 1/4 of a second but I can still do it if I'm close enough. However on 3/4s sometimes and almost all 1/4 second interrupts they are predicted. Watching the field is as important on a ranger as it is a monk because that way you can tell that when your wars start to train the monk SoDs and you can interupt it. Another common one is right as a monk is getting up from a kd they cast a spell and you can use that to your advantage. Another predicted interrupt is if a caster is running right at you (or ranger with bow of same distance) and you D shot you will get anything down to 3/4 casts. So ya bot programs probably exist but are pointless because a human can predict better and prediction is equally if not more so important than pure reactions.
Alex Silverfox
Ok then they do exist. Ofc they may be a taboo but I think right now they are spreading. I know top players are not affected, they are good because of the lot of practice and experience they have and moreover I dont think they will risk to be banned. But the mesmer I met were neither in top guilds nor I consider them good players because interrupting random skills of the same or above casting time without thinking of wich should be interrupted it's not.
My reaction is 0.25-0.26 as an average of tests I did:
http://www.qacps.k12.md.us/cms/sci/human/HBLAB4.HTM
click above and follow the links, there are even funnier reaction test games out there. Check yours. I don't think 0.16 or even 0.08 sec reaction should be possible on interrupts because should be a conditional reaction.
I explain the two process between a simple reaction and a conditional reaction:
Simple:
eyes->interpretation of change->reaction signal
Conditional reaction:
eyes-> interpretation of change->memory activation->judgement->reaction signal
The conditional reaction is faster as you keep practicing and your memory and judgement become faster because of different factors.
Random answering: I had no daze, I RANDOMIZED cast of skills so that usual mesmer tips shouldnt work (I'm in the pvp scene from a bit now), I had no Shame and from the answers I got I don't feel paranoid.
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Originally Posted by Ghost Recon
The average human reaction time is 0.16s and a pro gamer should be a the very least half of that.
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http://www.qacps.k12.md.us/cms/sci/human/HBLAB4.HTM
click above and follow the links, there are even funnier reaction test games out there. Check yours. I don't think 0.16 or even 0.08 sec reaction should be possible on interrupts because should be a conditional reaction.
I explain the two process between a simple reaction and a conditional reaction:
Simple:
eyes->interpretation of change->reaction signal
Conditional reaction:
eyes-> interpretation of change->memory activation->judgement->reaction signal
The conditional reaction is faster as you keep practicing and your memory and judgement become faster because of different factors.
Random answering: I had no daze, I RANDOMIZED cast of skills so that usual mesmer tips shouldnt work (I'm in the pvp scene from a bit now), I had no Shame and from the answers I got I don't feel paranoid.
Rainywinter
I didn't check human's reaction time, so I could be wrong on that part. 0.16 is pretty damn fast. Are you sure?
joze
It's not impossible to interrupt 3/4 second spells - neither 1/4 spells.
Good mesmers do not watch the skill bar - they watch the target. If the mesmer sees you're going into the oh-so-well-known-casting stance for monks, he's just going to interrupt you.
Good mesmers do not watch the skill bar - they watch the target. If the mesmer sees you're going into the oh-so-well-known-casting stance for monks, he's just going to interrupt you.
Avarre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rainywinter
Interrupter Bots do exists. One of my friends showed me how it works, and now I really want to get a virus into his comp. Basically - those programs work simple. They identify spell casting, which is nothing in ms in compared to human brain, and simply activate the skill. Lag is probably the one and only factor. In anyway, if you randomly casted a 3\4 spell and got interrupted- unfortunately human's reaction time is not good enough - even for the most skillful player - to counter it. 3\4 spell is 750 ms. 1\4 interrupting spell is 250 ms. ping is 100 ms to receive your spell action and another 100 ms to send the interrupting spell back to the server. It means that the interrupter would have to understand you're casting a spell, realize its a spell, send an action to the fingers, click the button - all that will have to happen in 750 ms - 250 ms - 100 ms - 100 ms = 300 ms which is 0.3. The human brain is just not capable of that. Interrupter bots are usually good for up to 2\4 ms spells I suppose since they can do a counter in 200 ms (0.2 sec) + 250 ms interrupt spell (450 ms togther)
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As many have said, prediction and anticipation play a huge part in interrupting successfully.
Deleet
Human reaction times.
http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/...time/stats.php
You can test reaction times here:
http://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/index.php
I scored an average of 238.
http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/...time/stats.php
You can test reaction times here:
http://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/index.php
I scored an average of 238.
Fire Childe
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Originally Posted by Avarre
I've caught 3/4s spells by twitch reflex on 200-300ms ping.
As many have said, prediction and anticipation play a huge part in interrupting successfully. |
Sometimes however it is very much possible to preempt a cast and get a couple hundred milliseconds head start or preempt a time frame where alot of casts will occur (the moments following a caster/adrenal spike).
For instance, it is sometimes possible to catch 1/4 sec healing casts and even an infuse during or after a spike. Usually after an adrenal spike or caster spike, that target becomes ineligible for a second spike for some time afterwards - mainly because the enemy monks will almost certainly have that guy selected as their target and they will be bombarding it with dmg mitigation and quick cast healing to offset the damage from the spike. In those cases, your chances of getting an interrupt against a quick cast are greatly increased. Not because your reaction time is especially brilliant but because you know theres a short window where alot of spells are going to be cast and you have a good chance of catching at least one of them.
My reaction time is not really that good, and nobody has a reaction time that can consistantly beat 1/4 of a second out of the blue. But in certain conditions you can make a fair bet that you know what casts are coming and thats the time to strike.
Retribution X
my shortest reaction time, (Minus Ping) was around .127
Which equated out, is possible to beat.
but I am MUCH faster with my keyboard then my mouse. It's not that hard to interrupt 3/4 second cast skills.
Which equated out, is possible to beat.
but I am MUCH faster with my keyboard then my mouse. It's not that hard to interrupt 3/4 second cast skills.