Alliance Battle Changes Propositions

Dear Anet and fellow Guildwars gamers,

We would like to point of couple of things that should be take notice of,

For sometime, after the updates regarding Alliance Battle(AB) boost on the amount of faction you donate towards your Alliance is doubled towards your title, we found that it is now easier to gain the maximum rank for AB. We remember back in the days when it is hard to increase your AB rank for everyone, all my friends were hardcore AB, their R4 Defender rank was highly noticed by people even of Savior rank. However since the double faction event and the double up faction towards your title, these ranks now mean nothing to us. All the hard work just to get that title seems like it was just kind of wasted. We don't see how it is prudent to have people that have farmed way more faction in real-time and donated it to their guild have less of a rank then people that just started ABing hardcore during this double faction thing. Heroes Ascent would feel if this kind of change took place, All the Rank 9 and higher players would just flip out at people who just started HAing already having Rank 6 in a couple of weeks when it took them the better part of several months.


Our proposition to this matter is *edited 18/08/2007*(1.)please reduce the amount of faction you donate to 5k (back to original before Anet changes it) you donated when it goes towards your title, So 5k=5k not 5k=10k. *edited 18/08/2007*Through many users comments, we decide nothing can be done with this since it is too late. Therefore please reconsider proposition no.2
We know you guys have logged how much all the players have farmed in just actual faction, because when you scroll over your 10k faction bar, you can see the amount donated in real time, without the double up increase. If you can, also increase the capacity of ranks since most of us already rank 10-12 and there is no point on donating faction anymore while you are not gaining any more title, although some people still AB just to get scrolls and jade.

*edited 18/08/2007*(2.)However, we love the title system and hopefully you can increase it or add new separate titles for PvP gamers such like us that do the actual Alliance Battle only *not faction farming quest.. Since they messed up the old title system by integrating them to PvE skills.

*edited*There are many different reasons and different opinions regarding this matter with different gamer's perspectives. We want to think for the benefit for all ABer, but our main perspective regarding to this is that we want this title to be meaningful to people who do AB. I know once you maxed the title, Anet probably wants to motivate us to move to higher PvP ground like HoH and TA. But some of us already play AB for long and large community of our friends still love to AB and we just don't see how we can fit to the higher PvP ground level. Despite of our PvP skills since AB is not even a challenging PvP if you think about it, unless you are in the enemy lands. But as i say, AB is all about capture the flag with little bit of pvp involves in it. Regarding how these tittles bounded by PvE skills, we think that the skills effect should be stopped until it reaches certain of your Faction ranks. Although we didn't do PvE after we finish the campaign, again this is our perspective from ABer only not from PvEr point of views. Even better, if you nerf faction farming runs so these titles will "mean" something for the ABer would be nice, but we doubt that will happen.


While, in comparison, AB is a very popular form of PvP (Well more like Capture the Shrine game with a bit of PvP involved) for both first-timer and pros.


We will not argue the fact that AB is a far differen't form of PvP then either HoH or GvG, or even TA. However the main good thing about AB is that there is less prejudice/stereotype of people when making a team thus a bigger community as well in AB. We make lots of friends by playing with a diversity of people (some from PvE and even HoH gamers).


We hate people who think AB is just for testing skills and they can just rage quit if their team is not winning. We are disgusted by it. We know HoH, RA and even in extreme cases GvG suffers this problem, but overall, something should be done about this if it is possible.
*edited*(3.)*removed* we can see it from Nate point of view towards this matter. Since they also remove re-connect back to the game due to the bugs, guess it would be impossible.


*edited*(4.)penalized some faction points from their faction title for leechers only*. That's if the voting system is implemented. So we hope this penalizing will work towards leechers not leavers*


One thing all ABers hate is people who join the game just to leech faction and not play. In addition to that this is the same as when you are farming in PvE or doing a mission.

(5.)There should be a command like /vote kick <name> or /<no of order of members in party> and when a certain majority of people vote that person out, they are gone. Whenever this kind of vote is successful, that person is banned from AB for 10-15 mins for example. [B][I]So basically this command works the same as /resign where all members required to type it for the system to works, therefore it will decrease the chance of abuse*. I hope that explains this proposed system better.[B][I] However Anet should also try developing a method to (6.)look for players who are waiting in outpost to get into the next round to fill the leaver’s spot. This system would be beneficial to AB, HoH, GvG, and PvE if someone are leavers or had to leave, they could find available players in the outpost to join the next round or something.


Anet did a great thing by increasing the amount of faction gained in enemy lands. This will appeal more gamers do a lot more AB in the enemy lands. We greatly thank the Anet developer team for this change! It would also be very awesome if you can (7.)add 1-2 maps for both the Luxon/Kurzick territories. By adding these maps, it will make AB more interesting (since its new maps) and challenging. This is comparable to all the maps they added for HoH while AB was essentially untouched. The challenging points of view say (7.a)add "catapults" in one of the maps, or (7.b)have some path with lava to slow down your movement, (7.c)interaction with a Juggernaut or Turtle like in Fort Aspenwood (this is same as in Saltspray Beach where you can get the Dragon to follow you.) or (7.d)have some kind of pop-up ingame like HoH has when the Kurzicks push the Luxons back to their home territories and vice-versa.


We know these changes probably should have been proposed a lot sooner, but to be honest we were expecting someone else to beat us to it. But we do hope gamers and Anet will post some comments regarding these changes/propositions.




Thank you for reading this,
Colin "Porthos"
Joey "Ceres "
Mist "Mistaya"

EW!
/NOT SIGNED

The climb to 10,000,000 faction would be almost impossible if it was only 5k towards your title each time.

It still means a lot when I see a rank 6 or 7 even, I know they have put in some hard work.

/totally signed

It is possible, I know you may be an HoH players, but we are AB players have different opinion towards this. What would happen if they double the fame earned towards the title because I want to reach the next title too, I would flip out if I am a HoH players.

I Agree with everything but the vote kick, I think the advantages of it are minimal, and the drawbacks outweigh them. but everything else is quite reasonable

/partialsign

An issue that needs to be addressed here (because not everyone is a hardcore ABer like some of us ) is how the reduction will affect Luxon/Kurzick PvE only skills. Will the players who AB for the sake of acquiring them and therefore only AB to the first title lose those skills after half their faction is taken away? It will also take twice as long for those skills to be more effective. I can see room for complaints from PvE Land, and those guys get some tough breaks because of nerfs caused by PvPers. ^^;

I know this sounds like a good idea in attempts to cut down on "AB crime", but I can see this becoming problematic in the way that suggestion #4 would. Since there was the recent update that disallows you to reconnect to your game, this would be detrimental to players (like me ) who have finicky internet connections and would have to sit out for 5-10 minutes through no fault of their own!

Since the majority of GW players are wisecracks , I can see this command becoming severely abused. Hostility towards players because of their Guild membership, their faction alliegiance, their PvP orientation, is not at all uncommon in Guild Wars. If one finds themselves in an AB with the wrong people, an innocent life could be at stake.

Loved loved loved this idea. At first.
But then I realized that there is an issue of timing with this one. If someone leaves near the end of an AB and is replaced by another player, that player who just arrived would put in about 10% of the effort and reap 100% of the faction benefits. What's this? No pain, all gain? Sounds a lot like the leecher's manifesto. This implementation may actual cause leeching to increase.

But I really like the suggestions for new maps and interactive elements (like the Juggernauts and Siege Turtles) and the majority of your comments are certainly valid concerns for any of the AB elite.
So on a scale of 1 to awesome, I rate this super great!

the /vote thing is bad. Say someone doesnt like another player on the team, or someone gets a lag spike. They could juts /vote them off. Not fair.

System is perfect right now, You can increase it both by PvP and PvE.

Perfect? Wait...hold on...lemme see something here...

Per*fect - [Adj., n.,Pur-fikt; v. per-fekt]

1. Conforming absolutely to the description or definition of an ideal type
2. Excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement
3. exactly fitting the need in a certain situation or for a certain purpose
4. entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings.
5. accurate, exact, or correct in every detail
6. thorough; complete; utter

Need I go on? The bolded numbers was the kind of perfect I was thinking of when you said "perfect." If this is the same word that I was thinking of....then you fail. Please choose your word(s) more carefully.
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As far as the Alliance Battle Changes Propositions go...I do not fully agree to all of the numbers.

1. Keep it at 10k for title for every 5k transfered to guild. This is to help the PvE'rs to get them those PvE only skills....I don't think it was anet's intention for the newbie AB'rs have to bust balls to get some skills they won't be able to use in a pvp arena. This also reminds me of the survivor title track when it was introduced. People who had a character prior to the track got shafted, just like the way we donated 4mil+ faction before the update to get 10k per 5k trasnfered. Deal with it. Sorry

2. Isn't your "something" PvE skills? Kind of like going for r7/8 glad? What keeps them going? +faction for balth cap? I don't think so.
I'm not crazy about the luxon/kurzick skills. Maybe more/better luxon/kurzicks skills would motivate high ranked AB'rs to AB more.

3. No, disconnects anyone? I'm sure of all people joey...you'd know the feeling of being disconnected. Although maybe tagging a person to inform the future party that, that person has left in the middle of a game would be nice. Then if that person leaves again...it's the leader's fault.

4. oooh, no thank you. What title do you know...decreases? Also runs in with number 3. No need to punish someone over something that wasn't even there fault.

5. This has been discussed about in the earlier posts, I see this being abused.

6. I like this idea. Replacing a leaver is an awesome idea. Having a constant filing roster to fill them leaver spots would be great. I remember someone saying that it wouldn't be fair if someone joined an almost done game to recieve 100% benefit. I would like to know who would leave around the end of the game...let alone how often would that happen? Maybe give them half of what was rewarded at the end?
If tagged players who just left a game wouldn't be able to get on the roster for obvious reasons. I see this being a great idea. Kudos on this one.

7. /agreed - more maps please!! Spice up AB maps please!
Capping points isn't very popular in HA in the mind of being a favorite. I think I speak for most HA'rs when I say "keep capping point maps/scenarios in AB." But I'm getting off of the point.
Maybe a map between luxon/kurzick - Saltspray Beach.
(7a.) /agree - nice idea
(7b.) /agree - interesting
(7c.) /um... - Juggernauts and turtles are pretty slow haha. Don't think having them follow would be the best idea. The idea is pretty iffy.
(7d.) Neat idea. Perhaps have the option hide-able for people who don't AB so it doesn't bother them. This is another iffy idea.

This is definitely coming from agrivated high ranked AB'rs ! It's been this way for a looooong time. But of all people, you guys know of the kind of players are in AB. PvE'rs not using max armor, players having no elite skill on their skillbar, trash talking people who bring 1v1 builds into AB, annoying teammates who think Rezz shrine= instant win, leavers, leechers, saccers in very extreme cases, teammates who leave before a shrine is capped, etc. Then you have high ranked heroes and champion ranked players who are elitest who are /rank happy. It happens, Sometimes you get great groups, other times you get crap players who fights the mob and/or just leaves/leeches.
I would like to see some improvements in AB, I think the prior said propositions are a great start. I tried to be constructive as much as possible, sorry if i disappointed.

Your backup friend,
The Little Gnat

/signed, but

If you asked me the "Total amount of kurzick/luxon faction earned" should be the same as your progress in the title. Seems to be the simplest and fairest thing, is there anyone that wouldn't be happy if thats the way it worked?

People that get amber:Happy because it would be retroactive.
People that donate to guild:happy because it would be the same as before the update:
People that get skills: would probably bitch a bit, but since theres only X number of skills anyways, wouldn't drastically impact them.

I whole-heartedly agree with the proposition. Having been a hard-core aber myself for quite sometime, I was disappointed to realize that after the hard work and months it took me to gain my Luxon rank, it pretty much doesnt mean anything anymore when they have way less experienced ppl with nearly the same rank as me, having earned theirs in a matter of weeks compared to the number of months it took me to work myself up from FOL to Defender. It would be unheard of for them to do this to the Hero title track or Gladiator for that matter, and therefore I feel they shouldnt have done it to the Luxon/Kurzick title track.

We have been plagued by leechers and rage quitters in ab forever... I like the idea of the voting system, but ... honestly that would be the lowest on my list of concerns for ab since... a lot of exp abers tend to ab wi ppl they know or have some type of connection to anyway, so its unlikely they'll find themselves on a team wi rage quitters/leechers, the more u play, the better you get to know who is who/who to team with and who not to. In any case, the voting system is still a great idea and worthy of consideration.

We could certainly use new maps, I'm not sure why this has not already been done either.. so Kudos to Ceres, Porth, Mistaya, officially pointing that out. It will definately help to keep things more interesting.

All in all I do get the feeling that anet slacks a lot on the development of ab by comparisom to other forms of pvp. Hopefully this message gets thru to em. TY, and good looking out!

Like Litha Before and some of what Gnat said. i would have to say /partiallySigned

There are a few things that would be over abused, but all these players getting their Rank 6 Title in one weekend is kinda annoying. Cause with Title comes wisecrack attitude, and some of these players dont know anything about AB or "capping" as we call it. I remember how i had to AB for a whole day just to pull in around 40-60k just to hit my "defender" of luxon in 3 months. I worked for it, now people just get it in no time. The vote kick ability should be for anyone of the group (Not Team) cause honestly how many groups or guilds are full leechers. its just usually lazy people who dont want to farm their 10k faction/Jade/get payed in their guild. Map change would also be a nice thing to have. I mean yeah AB is fun and all but if something doesnt change in AB (Which is about all i do on GW now) Then i dont think i could last till GW2. GW:EN sounds like a whole PvE thing, not gonna cut it for me.
Another thing, Tho i dont think all of you would agree, But i would love to see AB be PvE based. Then all this "wiki" name calling and unoriginal builds and Nerfs wouldnt be so one sided. Take the sin for Example, How many of those SP sins or Generic wiki sins that you see in AB actually went out and capped that skill and learned it. They could have leeched the faction to use that skill and now are using someone's hard earned Time to easily kill someone in AB. It would show the Truly skilled players out of the bunch rather than these over abused builds. ~Not saying that all PvP players in AB are skill-less, But i have seen my share of them~
I would love to sit here and keep ranting but i dont think i could put all the ideas onto this 1 post alone. The ideas are good, But when you consider them. you have to think about it in a way that people will abuse it. Cause people are always looking for a way to abuse the rules. Thank you for your time.

~Alarar~

/signed

I agree with the whole thing. I think I AB alot who only goes for fun not to ff. Just somthing I like doing with my friends. I took longer getting my rank 4 then it took me to et to my rank 5. thats not right. People who are still very new AB have the same rank as I do somtimes. Anyways I like the rest of the ideas aswell. The kick thing I like but maybe ony an option if the player dont move for 5 mins, then a team press y or n to kick. Great ideas!
-Amby

I like AB, so /signed

"vote kick" command !! FA players can be happy

No.

The alliegance titles are not the Hero titles, they are linked to PvE skills, they MUST be much more easily atainable, like the Sunspear and Lightbringer.

The sooner, the better.

We don't know what are you going on about. We presume you are not a hardcore ABer as us back in the old days when they haven't update. We the old ABer earn our title from Alliance Battle through countless of AB and hard-backbreakingwork. Since they double the faction earned, these titles are now meaningless to us.

Read what Amby said:
and Read what enslaved said:
and Awara said too:
AB now is somewhere between PvP and PvE because of these changes. Or you could say AB is like a stepping stone for PvEr players. If you try to combine two things together , obviously it's not going to work. We know the purpose for this is to increase AB players. However Anet really should distinguished AB between PvP and PvE. Not mixed them up together. we like how the old AB system back then where they didn't merge AB with PvE skills. (except for now the only thing we like is the earn more faction in enemy lands)



Now You are comparing AB with PvE. They are COMPLETELY different. Anet used to treat PvP and PvE differently. I don't know why they include AB to gain PvE skills now. I disagree with this. Sunspear and Lightbringer are pure PvE titles, so we don't care about that. If you are an ABer, we treat AB as pure PvP like RA and TA, why? Because you see other players as your enemy and you are engaging with them. Isnt that somewhat related to Player versus Player? You tell me...
Sunspear and Lightbringer ranks? You kill monsters and you earn the titles. You don't see "human" players as your enemy . How can you start comparing Sunspear/Lightbringer points to Alliance Battle points. You can't. They are different.

Again your perspective might come from PvEr based point of view, and ours from ABer point of view. If you were in our shoes you will know how we feel right now.

YAY!! you go jowy, stick it to the man!!! /insane

/unsigned:

All AB needs is:
New maps
More reward for the losing team

Nothing else.

Things change, get over it.

PvE players do not need more grind. You can still change the faction for other stuff and

AB and PvE ARE different, but alliegance faction is used in PvE only.
That is, AB is under the feet of PvE.

Get used to that, and focus in balthazar faction.

Nice to see many people think about ab

to come to the idees:
back to 5k for your acount ..i can see where that come from but i think its done and cant see it being changed

more titles sure why not ...give us somthing to do and keeps highend abers abing

kick vote ?.....humm see it in other games with varied results....not a big fan of it

replacing leavers with new players from start area?....can be fun for random players ..but what iff you e7 ?...and wanna get back?

more maps in ab?.....best idee ever !!....yes please other types of arenas in gw have map changes: TA / hoh / ra so why not ab ?

slow effects?...can be funny
cattapults .....can be funny to

overal good to see idees about this stuff ..good job posters

gr rugzak troeristje

see you in grenz ....../stab first

(1.)please reduce the amount of faction you donate
to 5k (back to original before Anet changes it) you donated when it goes towards your title, So 5k=5k not 5k=10k.
/not signed
the ab titles are the factions version of the lb and ss titles, in such that they affect skills...and in no evident way do they affect pvp prestige as does the hero, champ, glad, and commander titles...for in order to get these titles u do have to do and have some personal skill in pvp...ab titles u can fff for, and even if u do the ab side of it u can be terrible and there will still be 11 other people who can cover ur butt.

As well...many people who formerly didnt do ab because they didnt want to put that sort of effort in to get a title...because honostly fotl at 250k and a 5:5 donation ratio means u need to donte 5k 50 times...and lets say it takes 4 matches to get 5k...then that is 200 matches...each lasting ~15 minutes...and an additional 10 minutes or so waiting for each match...then that is 5,000 minutes...which is about 80 hours of ab play...quite a fair bit to just get r 1 for that title

(2.)However, we love the title system and hopefully you can increase it..
/signed
im never gonna max it out...so add more titles as u feel necessary



(4.)penalized some faction points from their faction title for leechers only*.
/signed
nothing upsets me more then going in and finding 3 leechers


(5.)There should be a command like /vote kick <name> or /<no of order of members in party>
/not signed
there are too many forseeable problems with this, for example, how many people is enough to get someone kicked...too few and u may see teams of jerks going in to just kick all the other teams for a good laugh...dont be naive enough to think that there are people who would not do this. However, if u make the number too many...say like 10 or so...u may see teams of leachers and then u wouldnt be able to kick neone...if there was a plan to make such a /kick working then i would definitely support it though

(6.)look for players who are waiting in outpost to get into the next round to fill the leaver’s spot.
/not signed
i dont get with wut u mean by this...im assuming that its as soon as u return from a mmatch and had a leaver someone would join ur party...and if so i wouldnt agree with this because i personally wouldnt want just nebody joining my group


(7.)add 1-2 maps for both the Luxon/Kurzick territories. (7.a)add "catapults" in one of the maps, or (7.b)have some path with lava to slow down your movement, (7.c)interaction with a Juggernaut or Turtle like in Fort Aspenwood (this is same as in Saltspray Beach where you can get the Dragon to follow you.) or (7.d)
/sign
i like all these ideas...and i have seen some people disagree with adding more maps because it has taken HA and TA 2 years to get their new maps...cough cough fallacy cough cough...why make the same mistake again just because it happened to HA and TA

Ill just start collecting my Jadeite again and still work on my title and get some money out of it also. I like how it is now. As amateur aber i like it this way. Keep me locked in AB. If they change it im leaving again.

It is really hard to point out who is a leecher and who is just running for the doorbell. A voting system might work, but in other games (mostly FPS) it doesnt really work. People just reconnect or join a other game of AB in this case, to leech and irritate other players.


Really nice idea. I love it. Will be hard to fit in the line of battle, but they can just make Canyon and Lands really close to the both Capital cities and make it 3 k faction for a win. (We still like the underdog system dont we??)

Euhm.. I like those things but Anet doesnt even like them in GvG. Its rather hard to fit them into an AB battle.

Lava might not be the best option. (i quess its just an example) Something like Extended Enchantments waters, like in the Weeping Isle. Or Stone Spores can be nice. (i hate them but still its something new.)

Those are really slow.. And Juggernauts arent that good but im Luxon any ways XD. Some Units, like in Jade Quarry, can be nice in AB also. Units like Luxon Stormcaller or Longbow/Kurzick Thunders and Far Shots.

I don't want fewer people to play AB, so /not signed.

The system after the change is great, AB-ing has never been as much fun. We all got shafted by this update, for me it's the huge amounts of amber and jade that never added to my titles.

Now that buying jade/amber adds to the title too, donating should count as double, otherwise the price of amber/luxon would quickly go down to what the merchant wants to offer (I know it ain't that great now, but I know alot of new players who make money to buy skills and armor for their pve toons through ab).

Increased title cap? The title is clearly a pve title, as pvp titles cannot be maxed, it's also quicker to attain in pve (especially if you are kurzick). There are skills now balanced to it, and although you say, but remove added affect to these skills, I do not agree, I also do not see this happening with EotN and the Hall of Monuments which has a link to this max title.

A voting system is not the answer, I can see uptight leaders trying to get someone voted out simply because that person isn't doing what the leader wants, but is contributing anyway.

I don't want to be pulled into a battle thats already going on (and probably a losing battle, as thats when people leave), so I don't think the if someone leaves then get soemone from town option is good. Half of the unteamed people in AB towns are afk anyway.

New maps maybe, however you want them filled with things that make AB less pvp then it already is.

btw HA has double fame weekends semi-regulary, the HA-ers are divided by it, some complain about it, but when I see more of my friends in HA then usual I know that deep down they like the added fame, so they can get the next rank quicker.

Donating ALREADY counts double.

I know, probably misused Should, as I am dutch, I thought the english Should can also be used to express something that is already, but that you feel justified that it is this way.

Ah, ok. Maybe you meant 'ought'.

i agree with him... they just need a TOTALLY equal map... ppl say eteran keys is equal.. but how dothe luxons get bases capped first, why are luxon shrines closer, cause its a luxon map... and yeah... i wait for like, 10 minutes to finally get in, spend 15 minutes abing, just to lose and get only 300 points.... PATHETIC should be winner gets 2k, loser gets 1k or something

Are you a kurzick? Then if you are kurzick you usually have longer waiting times to get in. I assume because there are too many people in Kurzick sides than in Luxon sides. And most of you guys are FFers not ABer, you probably don't know how the capping system works, maybe that's why you don't like the losing reward factions points. You guys can faction farms better than us anyway.

Tottaly equal map? We have saltspray beach already. I am a Luxon and i like the enemy lands Grenz Frontier and Ancestral Lands (mainly coz it is harder and the reward gained increased if you win). Playing in home lands bored the crap out of me now. You need challenge to make the game more interesting.

Sure there are more people ABing now. These people mostly ABing to get their skills unlocked. But we on the PvP side of point for AB thought this change is ridiculously wrecked the current Allegiance rank title.

This rank supposed to be a PvP title On exception on Kurzick sides they have that easy FF quest. If you are Luxons, most people earn their titles from countless of AB. Therefore these titles back then were mean something to us. Like PvP titles.

Why are you worrying about Hall of Monuments now? We post this topic for the purpose to make the current Guildwars Alliance Battle game better rather worrying about Guildwars 2.

I try to heed your advice to get over it. But we can't because Anet steps all over us (we the luxons hardcore ABer not PvEr). We wish Anet would plan better before they make changes. Look for small voices of gamers such as us before they implement the changes.

I guess these titles cannot be changed... The only cloudiest ideas in my mind is to add "PvP only" titles that people do the "actual" AB to handle this conflict.

We want AB to be part as PvPer to enjoy and PvEr to enjoy as well whetever you are farming for jade, title-seeker(such as us), or skills-seeker.

All we want is our title to mean something again like before... and to gain respect from both the pvp and pve community*sigh*

Who said that ? You still don't have an idea about AB ?
Saltspray Beach is only equal map. Etnaran Keys is Luxon favor, Kaanai Canyon is heavy Luxon favor. Grenz Frontier is the Kurzick version of Etnaran, and Ancestral Lands is the Kurzick version of Kaanai.

Okay maybe we didn't explain that better. For example, for proposition no.5,
In AB for example 4 members in a team. One of the member is leeching. Then the three members in that particular team only can vote his name after certain duration . This method can be use in PvE mission as well if someone is leeching , 7/8 members need to vote to be able to boot him/her. Then as some other people mentioned this system can be abused if not designed properly. And you are right maybe other people will have similar better ideas than us.


For proposition no6.
For example in GvG, one of your member disconnect in the middle of the game. Then he reconnects back in your guildhall. In the game, the party leader can look for him and re-add him back into the game. For AB we proposed those with "Search" party may able to join. Say if your friends disconnect and he/she is back in the outpost AB waiting area he/she can rejoin back. But then again this won't be fair if other random people joined near the end of game just to get faction. So yeah scrape this for AB i think... so hopefully they put the reconnect option back.
But for GvG or HoH, this may be useful system method to re-add your friends back when the round finish or at the start of the round. Not sure again how we can introduce this system, need more ideas from people.

Yeah, I agree that it took a good while for me to get my ab titles back in the day. After I made the armor I wanted, the title was all there was left. After the extra faction gain, I feel like I got my next title pretty quick comparing to how long it took just to get the first title.

With the addition of the pve skills that are linked to the title, the only way to make them useful was to alter the title the way they did. With ab's taking ~15 minutes a piece at least (unless one side crumbles real quick), it takes a long time to get anywhere in the titles. With the doubled faction, it'd be nice if they altered my progress in the title to reflect the doubled faction I would have. Otherwise, if they want to double the faction for the title, that's fine with me.

I have a big problem with 4 and 5, penalizing people for playing the way they want is not cool. Moochers suck, sure, but adding a penalty like the /kick option is worse. It allows for so much abuse and it'll make people even less willing to playing with pugs. Being shunned from a group is much worse than someone shunning an entire group. No one would want to play together and since you can't bring hench or heroes, no one will be playing ab except for [any], heh. The change they're implementing for RA is already pushing it in my eyes.

I agree that Ab is in a huge need of some diversity, a new map or something would be nice.

I agree on all points listed, with a couple of reservations:

(1) Titles are less meaningful after the recent double rewards changes.

I can see both sides of this argument, but agree that if a similar change had been made to HOH rank, that there would be a tremendous uproar.
Perhaps an agreeable solution would be to keep it the way it is now, however make the changes retroactive, so that anyone who earned their titles the hard way will now have a title rank based on the new system for all their faction earned, while this means they will have double the rank they used to, at least it is more fair to those that put in the time before the changes, and also makes their rank more meaningful.
Also, I for one would certainly like to have credit for all the Jade/Amber I bought, back in the day, since I didn't really think the title was all that worthwhile, but enjoyed playing AB. My GF and I used to play AB together all the time, and by the time I started donating rather than just buying jade, she was already rank 2, so it would be nice to get those missing ranks.

(2) Not enough AB ranks, pls add more Anet.

This seems perfectly fine to me, although maybe rather than thinking up more silly title names (Faction Farmer of the Kurz/Luxons maybe?) the top title name could remain, but more ranks added, (exp. Savior of the Kurz/Luxons (16) )

(3) Penalties for those who leave AB early

Absolutely AGREE, however, Anet NEEDS to fix the reconnect feature for this to be totally fair. Anet NEEDS to fix the reconnect feature, *period*
Until then, ppl could be penalized for simply leaving, but not disconnecting, yes, I know, then ppl will just yank their network cable, but believe it or not, not everyone is bright enough to do even this, and many are simply just too lazy (especially if they are too lazy to even finish a simple AB round)
WoW in its battlegrounds system gives you a 15 minute "deserter" status for leaving early, which means you cannot rejoin a queue for BG for 15 minutes, and it actually works quite well, very very few ppl tend to leave a Battle ground early, even if their team is losing very badly.
I submit that there should be a faction penalty as well, maybe 300 or 500 lost. Its not enough to really hurt a hard core AB'er, but its enough to make it not worth leaving just so you can get more faction by reentering another game. I personally would not mind losing 500 faction even on an accidental disconnect, just to prevent the leavers.

(4) Penalties for leechers

Heck, I think there should probably be an automatic kick if you go afk for more than 5 minutes. And yes, there have been times where I have had to get the phone, or the door or something, but why should the rest of the teams be penalized for that? BTW, this is something that WoW does, and on top of kicking you, it gives you deserter status, and for the most part, it works without problems.

(5) A Vote / Kick system when already in a zone.

ABSOLUTELY!! This has been needed since day one, but for pve more than pvp.
I don't know how many times I have been in a party where there was one guy that was either verbally abusive, rude, liked to run off and agro, was a 55 monk pretending to be a healer, .... the list goes on and on. But you are stuck with them, cause there is no way to kick them once you are in a zone.

As for all the people saying "OH NOES, a vote kick system will be abused like crazy!!"

They obviously have not played any games with any sort of reasonable implementation of a vote kick system, since it is *normally* nearly impossible to even get someone voted out for a *legitimate* reason, and in my experience it almost NEVER happens just because someone wants to be funny.
Of course there are idiots that will say, hey I don't like Mace cause he is killing me, or because he said something I didn't like, or whatever, but they rarely even get one vote, let alone enough to kick someone.
On the contrary, I have been in games where a person was REPEATEDLY KILLING THEIR OWN TEAMMATES (thank goodness this is impossible in GW) and yet there would be one person that would think it was funny, and along with the offender, their 2 votes would be enough to keep them from getting kicked. :P
I have seen some incredible offenses brought up for vote, and somehow not get even 51% majority, so I *REALLY* doubt abuse would be an issue.
As long as it was required for at least 8/12 to vote someone out of AB, or 3/4 for just your own team, I'm fairly sure it would not be a problem.
For someone to rig an 8/12 vote it would require them to sync join with another team, and realistically, most griefers are going to have a hard enough time finding 8 ppl to even make up their teams, let alone have the patience to keep trying to sync join. And 8/12 would at least make it so that even if a whole team of leechers joined, and voted to stay, the rest of the team could still kick them.
Oh, and of course the opposing faction could not vote ppl off.
Although, I could see a system where it would take at least 13/24 players in an AB to vote someone out (if they were being *really* abusive) and I honestly could not see this ever realistically being abused, since that would mean you would need to have EVERY single player on one side vote you off, as well as even someone on your own team. I doubt this would happen even if there was someone somehow ruining the game for everyone. Its been my experience that in random public games, its *extremely* difficult to get everyone to vote, even for a very good reason.

(6) Look for players who are waiting in outpost to get into the next round to fill the leaver’s spot.

I think this is a good idea, in principle, and realistically, probably would have very little abuse even with the "get in at the last second, free faction" possibility, but hard to implement, since AB is designed around 4 player teams, so at least 4 players would have to leave for a team to get in I would think. Also, I would not want to wait 10 minutes and then end up only getting to play for 30 seconds, even *if* my team won, and I got "free faction"

(7) More maps, and more interactive elements in the maps.

I think this is a great idea! Just as long as the interactive elements do not become gimmicky. For example, the dragon in Salt Spray is just fine, but Catapults aimed at a res shrine would be a big problem.
I think more interesting environments would be nice as well. I am all about the game mechanics, and having everything work well, but the AB maps as is, are kind of lack luster, almost an empty field with some shrines in it, putting some buildings and such in, as long as well balanced, could add a more believable feel to the game, and if they can be used tactically, would add interest to the environment as well.

I'm glad that someone is putting these topics forward for discussion, and hope that Anet takes this thread seriously.

That ought to be: In my opinion this rank is supposed to be a PvP title.

Let's look at the real pvp titles:

Gladiator
Hero
Champion

All three are not maxable. Kurzick/Luxon title is. No way to add to this title through playing pve, there are quests that can add to the Kurzick/luxon title (not just the ff-quest, but many one-time quests). So your opinion is that is ought to be a pvp title. In reality it clearly isn't.

Hall of Monuments is in GW:EN, coming out in two weeks. I'd say that gives me reason to worry about the hall of monuments.

Apparently, according to you, pvp titles cannot be maxed. If this is the case, there are no pvp titles at all then.

Right off the Guild Wars official website: ( http://www.guildwars.com/support/gameupdates/ )

Regardless of how you may feel about the Friend title track, the fact remains that you can advance it through one of the forms of pvp in Guildwars, therefore it can be used to some degree as a gauge of player experience in that form of pvp, and that is precisely what most players use that title to represent, so whether you think it was designed as a pve title or even *if* Anet were to announce that it is intended as a pve title is irrelevant.

Last time I looked PvP titles where titles that were acct based not char based. Everything to do with PvE is char based.


Well then you put it in to your guild it is not for PvE it is to raise your guilds rep. Even in your so called real PvP titles you would know a guild tag that AB's a lot.

And to the people who don't want less people abing, if there was new maps that would pull a lot of people back into it.

/Not Signed

To the OP and his supporters,

A friend of mine as a brilliant young man for a son. When about 7 or so, he was at the Renaissance Festival and wearing a Robin Hood costume. He met another little boy wearing a Robin Hood costume and said, “I am Robbin Hood.” The other little boy responded with, “I am Robin Hood.” And my friend’s son, without batting an eye or pause of any sort, said, “Great! Lets go get the sheriff.” He had no problems sharing the fantasy of being the hero. He had no ego to disappoint by including others.

I was not aware of the bonus in spending points to getting title. I am so familiar with the snobbery and braggadocio of PvP that I only endure RA when I want to open skills. This is not to say there are not some decent people there, but I have observed too many of the others. (Nor is it to indicate there are not immaturity problems in PvE.)

At this point in the games there are 10 character classes. One may reasonably expect a fair portion of the gamers who really want to play the game to purchase sufficient accounts or slots so they may play all 10 classes. I myself have 14 character slots on my oldest account. (One for Pre, one for PvP skill opening, 2 for mules, and 10 for playing each class.)

The game is in its last phase. Soon there will be a new engine where the characters we have made will make no difference and will not be able to continue. In the short time we have left it is in the interest of a great many players to obtain as much as they can for the Hall of Monuments. For those who are playing the game, all 10 character classes, the cost of maxing many titles in game gold (huge amounts of time farming) and in time for points (Balthazar, Alliance, Sunspear, and Lightbringer) is outrageous – and in most cases always was.

The point requirements for scoring appear to have been made under the impression that a person would have only one character and would only ever seek 2-3 titles, minimal armor, and maybe one nice item for that character in the 6 month period between releases. That has been utter balderdash. All titles and all rewards are serious grind fests for no reason. As antagonistic as I have been toward many GW decisions and failures, I have been and remain a fan who has purchased every game and expansion available – except for PvP.

I would suspect that the gracious gesture of increasing rewards was to try and lure more of us into PvP. When they eliminate the Griefing (all rewards for discoing from a match are nullified and the player replaced with AI Hench of same class and designed for that match/mission) then that will increase my interest in play. When they eliminate those who leach or free ride on the rest for benefits in the manner I suggested in another thread then that will increase my interest. When the rewards are significant enough that I can play all of the game and expect to attain the provided goals (titles, cute little emotes, etc.) on all fronts that will increase my interest. I am quite happy with the period before start at the beginning of matches, which allows time for all persons to arrive before their team is dead or on the way to defeat.

Something else that would increase my interest is if PvP points could be spent to obtain things of value in PvE. That would increase a lot of interest. If through PvP Faction points one could mod or purchase a PvE weapon and skin of the colors one chooses then I would have more reason to PvP. As it is, titles I have no reasonable chance of attaining because of time constraints are an insufficient reason to PvP in any way or form. It does not enhance my enjoyment of play by granting me the image (skins) I want to play with. It only takes away from what little time I have to work on 10 PvE characters, which is playing the full PvE game. I cannot obtain rewards from it for other titles, of which there are so many that getting them for my characters is no plausible in this lifetime. And the rewards it does offer have always been too slow in the coming.

In my opinion, those who have spent 5 to 10 thousand hours PvPing for so little return should have spoken up 2 years ago in order to get a better reward rate, for themselves and their PvE brethren. Because it has always been more important to be snobbish instead of share in game achievement and the enjoyment of all they have opposed any such idea. They have not known how to play Robin Hood.

1) The Kurzick/Luxon title track is intertwined with PvE through the skills.

2) AB needs a shakeup that brings it more exposure and more challenge.

3) The ways of gaining Kurzick/Luxon faction are not just based in PvP type play, as the priest at the res shrines give you the blessing that gives you faction for every monster killed. This makes it NOT exclusively PvP titles, for any concerned about such things.

That being said, I am not jumping into the arguement beyond this point. I just wanted to make it clear that this particular title actually spans across both areas of gameplay.

"(5.)There should be a command like /vote kick <name> or /<no of order of members in party>"

After so many leechers today me and my friends would kill to have that, I say try it and see if people can use it wisely but require the full team to do it not just majority. Hell might as well have a /leech command that if your afk for 5+ minutes for that.

But to be honest only thing I want to change about AB is the NPCs.

They are stupid, if you nuke or barrage from out of their range they will not move or kite or attack you in any sort, just take it and die leaving certain professions great at solocapping.

Lucky/unlucky title track mean anything to you?

I notice it when a guild fails at pvp in AB (lol @ guild- duo bonding, toucher teams, earth eles teams) and I notice high-ranked GvG guild tags, regular HA guild tags. But no guild has made itself noted to me by just doing AB, unless they fail badly at it.

So first make less people attracted to AB by removing half the reward for their title track and then new maps will save it? I think not.

I think alot of pvp-players lol'd at that update note. You do realise it will take 4-5 years to max any of those titles? These titles are maxable in theory only.

/signed for adding new maps
/unsigned for taking out the double faction bonus

I don't think it's right for new people...u had let's say rank 4 before the double reward update...u made rank 10-12 with it...and now you want it no more because you're max rank and don't want others to be the same...