Update - Thursday August 16 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Dervish Warrior

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2007

Legacy Of Angels

D/

17 Aug 2007 at 06:18 - 41

spikes for ritualists are now in-effective ... only spirit rift and gaze from beyond can do damage now... why cant someone other than A-Net work on guildwars

As soon as something is good.. its nerfed again, just watch, they will nerf everything again soon... and then rit will be a complete waste of time...

guess that it being a 1 second enchant can maybe make dervish's better.. but that is about it.... but.. dont worry.. cause dervish will be nerfed too

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

17 Aug 2007 at 06:22 - 42

Quote:

spikes for ritualists are now in-effective

At least rits had a spike. Ice els never had that oppertunity.

Dervish Warrior

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2007

Legacy Of Angels

D/

17 Aug 2007 at 06:23 - 43

probably did at some stage, until a-net saw it... and water ele's are meant to be more of a pressure type of element in the means of slowing opponents down

Guardian of the Light

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Radicals Against Tyrants

W/

17 Aug 2007 at 06:28 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

At least rits had a spike. Ice els never had that oppertunity.

Ya same with healing monk, they have to use smite skills if they wanna spike

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

17 Aug 2007 at 06:45 - 45

Hahahah nice Rit change, this owned Ancestor's Rage in spikes more than Exhaustion did. Anyone know what the new trigger words are for party search?

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

17 Aug 2007 at 06:46 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish Warrior

probably did at some stage, until a-net saw it... and water ele's are meant to be more of a pressure type of element in the means of slowing opponents down

Rits were meant to be more of a utility type, rather than a source or ridiculous direct damage. Although, I can't really say that, as I don't think anyone knows what the rit is supposed to be.

Some good changes.

lucifair

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2006

Canada

[NErd]

N/Mo

17 Aug 2007 at 06:49 - 47

thank god i didnt hafta delete my rit...especially wit that cool female rit armor coming out in GWEN ^ ^

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

17 Aug 2007 at 06:50 - 48

Looks good, still a few more tweaks needed on the rit skills:

Spirit burn - It's a low damage immolate with a long recharge and a condition now. Just make it a conditional version of immolate ffs.

Xinrae's crap - Yay dead skills. Just drop the recharge and lessen the mes effect. It's not that insanely powerful.

Fix lamentation. It's broken. waaaahhh.

Make preservation have better targeting/range

Make signet of ghostly might last 30 seconds, not 10.

Clamor of souls needs to not suck.

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

17 Aug 2007 at 06:58 - 49

Nice. So, what this all pans out to, is that the people whining about the Rit nerf get it more or less reversed, while all the hex hate is firmly left in place.

Exactly who the hell is going to bother using Reckless Haste now? Nerfed twice in three days. At least it had a smaller energy cost in the first skill change. Now it's just a blatant nerf.

Bloody joke.

Mr. G

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

S. Wales

Mo/Me

17 Aug 2007 at 07:13 - 50

^
The reason rits got "reversed" as you put it was beacuse of the very clumsy nerf to then, they have NOT been reversed, but the skills tat make spiking possible have gone

Hexs were a needed nerf, and werent as slap-dash as the rit nerfs

As you may or may not know, Anet are seriously enforcing active play, so tese fire and forget hexes need to be nerfed

Mad King Corn

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2006

17 Aug 2007 at 07:20 - 51

Quote:

Exactly who the hell is going to bother using Reckless Haste now?

This kind of nerfing is why Anet will never get another penny from me, my mind was made up after the PVE only skill nerfs, a day after they gave them to us!

Just keep sending Anet more money folks, buy GWEN and GW2, when the nerf bat hits them, perhaps it will be your wake up call.

gasmaskman

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

None, I don't play anymore.

Mo/W

17 Aug 2007 at 07:30 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad King Corn

This kind of nerfing is why Anet will never get another penny from me, my mind was made up after the PVE only skill nerfs, a day after they gave them to us!

You do realize that they were disgustingly overpowered, right?

Oh, and the fact that you got them for free?

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

17 Aug 2007 at 07:37 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. G

^
The reason rits got "reversed" as you put it was beacuse of the very clumsy nerf to then, they have NOT been reversed, but the skills tat make spiking possible have gone

Hexs were a needed nerf, and werent as slap-dash as the rit nerfs

As you may or may not know, Anet are seriously enforcing active play, so tese fire and forget hexes need to be nerfed

I'm all for active play. I'm NOT for destroying skills.

Reckless Haste now has a 15e cost for a MAXIMUM duration of 12 seconds. Its miss rate has been _LOWERED_, not raised. It's practically been destroyed.

Also, pardon me, but your logic is quite flawed. By your way of thinking hexes should be removed from the game ENTIRELY. All spirits should as well. Minions? Sure... trash them. You don't control them yourself, so it's not ACTIVE PLAY, right?

The entire POINT of a hex is "a malus put on another player or group of players with a fixed duration." OF COURSE it's going to be a "set and forget" skill to some extent.

glountz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/Mo

17 Aug 2007 at 07:48 - 54

Yay my spirit spamming glad farming build works again!

prism2525

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Among dead bodies.

The Republic of Sky Pirates

E/

17 Aug 2007 at 07:56 - 55

Personally I'm not much of a Rit fan, but still, seeing Mad King Corn's post, I still agree that some of the PvE-only skills were nerfed badly (looks at Intensity).

However, Rit spikes were a real pain whenever I decided to go a bit PvP. Glad they fixed them good enough in an extremely *cough* short *cough* time.

Plague

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

N/E

17 Aug 2007 at 08:02 - 56

I never really understood what the big deal was with Ancestors' Rage. Perhaps I'm missing something, but it's always relied on striking players next to a target ally (or you.) As such, you can't target backline targets anyway; not unless you walk up next to them, or you have your own frontline chasing them down. You just end up striking melee targets, which will usually soak up your damage anyway. I suppose I'm just the type of player that always favors striking soft cast targets first, and likes that damage to come unconditionally at a whim.

I can't even remember how the skill used to function, aside from that it requires you to target yourself or a frontline attacker (or a backline with a an frontline on them.) Could someone refresh my memory, so I can understand why everyone is convulsing over this skill having a one second delay?

around

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew - Diplomatic Embassy

I Have Three Pennies [Pnny] - forever in my heart <3

R/

17 Aug 2007 at 08:08 - 57

Still waiting for a BLight buff...

Utaku

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Paris, France

We eat pancakes [Yumy]

Me/

17 Aug 2007 at 08:14 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plague

I can't even remember how the skill used to function, aside from that it requires you to target yourself or a frontline attacker (or a backline with a an frontline on them.) Could someone refresh my memory, so I can understand why everyone is convulsing over this skill having a one second delay?

Rit spikes used a necro/sin that shadow prison'ed the spike target : this way the target was snared to stay in the spirit rift long enough, and the necro was the perfect target for ancestors' rage.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

17 Aug 2007 at 08:15 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plague

As such, you can't target backline targets anyway; not unless you walk up next to them, or you have your own frontline chasing them down.

Your frontline on their backline is sort of how Guild Wars is played.

The one second delay, combined with enchantment status, makes it impossible to unleash a ritualist spike, while not hurting a single rit for pressure too much.

Sophitia Leafblade

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Dragon Slayer Guild [DSG]

R/

17 Aug 2007 at 08:18 - 60

Thanks Anet, good work

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

17 Aug 2007 at 08:30 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

..Reckless Haste now has a 15e cost for a MAXIMUM duration of 12 seconds. Its miss rate has been _LOWERED_, not raised. It's practically been destroyed.
...

This is not true, it has been raised for attribute levels 13 and lower I believe, and lowered for 15 and up. I could be off here, but if i remember correctly 14 curses (or 15?) gave u 50% miss, I was using it a long time ago on a build using PoF, SoF and RH amounting for an exact 100% miss chance. 15 and higher means you have major/sup runes.

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

17 Aug 2007 at 08:36 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

This is not true, it has been raised for attribute levels 13 and lower I believe, and lowered for 15 and up. I could be off here, but if i remember correctly 14 curses (or 15?) gave u 50% miss, I was using it a long time ago on a build using PoF, SoF and RH amounting for an exact 100% miss chance. 15 and higher means you have major/sup runes.

100% miss chance? i didn't think the percentages staked like that. It's like the double HCT scenario. two lots of 20% don't make 40%, if you know what I mean

Happy with the Rit skills. I can live with ancestor's rage now, it'll be nice to have it back on my skillbar again.

Plague

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

N/E

17 Aug 2007 at 08:39 - 63

Oh, is that all. What a bunch of pansies. Honestly. There've been dozens upon dozens of far worse things that have happened to other professions.

Really though, I never understood why Rits had Channeling magic to begin with. I can understand the need for them to have some offensive capabilities, but why not something more imaginative than just making new Air Magic spells? With the whole Necro vibe, the whole skill line could have just as easily been weak AoE ranged blood skills that enpower spirits, or skills that buff other players like wards cast from a distance... whatever.

And not every team has a frontline. Most do. And not all of those teams with a frontline will actually follow the target they're supposed to. I think this is more of a GvG issue; in which case, you get asbolutely zero sympathy from me.

around

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew - Diplomatic Embassy

I Have Three Pennies [Pnny] - forever in my heart <3

R/

17 Aug 2007 at 08:44 - 64

Quote:

And not every team has a frontline. Most do. And not all of those teams with a frontline will actually follow the target they're supposed to. I think this is more of a GvG issue; in which case, you get asbolutely zero sympathy from me.

The only teams without a frontline are gimmicky caster spikes (ie ritspike). A proper balanced build will always have at least one melee character. If your frontline isn't on the target they're supposed to be on, get better frontliners.

It's not just a GvG issue, although it is more noticeable in that arena because of how important positioning is. The concept of frontline/midline/backline pervades through the entire GW experience, even PvE (I mean, you don't have your monks in front of your tanks).

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

17 Aug 2007 at 08:47 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

This is not true, it has been raised for attribute levels 13 and lower I believe, and lowered for 15 and up. I could be off here, but if i remember correctly 14 curses (or 15?) gave u 50% miss, I was using it a long time ago on a build using PoF, SoF and RH amounting for an exact 100% miss chance. 15 and higher means you have major/sup runes.

Every PvE curser uses a superior Curses rune. I'm sorry for speaking for the ignorant masses, but this was a staple skill for PvE SS builds. It's dead.

around

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew - Diplomatic Embassy

I Have Three Pennies [Pnny] - forever in my heart <3

R/

17 Aug 2007 at 08:49 - 66

Er...I do believe the simple solution will just be to lower your curses attributes and put those into something more useful, like team support.

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

17 Aug 2007 at 08:56 - 67

You encourage a PvE SS nuker to lower his Curses attribute?

around

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew - Diplomatic Embassy

I Have Three Pennies [Pnny] - forever in my heart <3

R/

17 Aug 2007 at 09:00 - 68

16->14 means you miss all of 4 damage per proc.

There's no point in endlessly shoving attribute points into a single attribute unless you're going to hit a specific breakpoint, sich as +7 rege for FN at 7 shadow.

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

17 Aug 2007 at 09:20 - 69

This is starting to get pretty amusing. What do you suggest that an SS nuker should put those points into, and which skills should he bring?

I'll give you my exact build for Hard Mode The Deep.

[skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill][skill]Reckless Haste[/skill][skill]Verata's Gaze[/skill][skill]Spinal Shivers[/skill][skill]Inspired Enchantment[/skill][skill]Blood Ritual[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Curses 12+1+3
Inspiration Magic 8
Death Magic 5
Blood Magic 2
Soul Reaping 9+1

I was under the impression that I was running an optimized build, but now I see I have just been endlessly shoving attribute points into Curses.

So, let us see.

We have Spinal Shivers, which is absolutely indispensible.

We have Blood Ritual, which is absolutely indispensible.

We have Inspired Enchantment, which is absolutely indispensible.

I don't think I need to explain why Spiteful and AE is indispensible.

So, we've already established that Reckless Haste is now fairly useless. Strike that. Come to think of it, I'll give you the rez sig slot as well. Don't need to rez anybody. And Verata's Gaze too. After all, what's the deal with snatching a level 32 Golem. Better let the BiP run and do it and get killed on the midline.

You have 3 open slots and 36 attribute points, which you aren't supposed to invest in Curses. Show me something l33t, baby.

around

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew - Diplomatic Embassy

I Have Three Pennies [Pnny] - forever in my heart <3

R/

17 Aug 2007 at 09:26 - 70

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

I said take a few points out of curses since Reckless no longer scales (hey, maybe even 1, that will give you an extra 20 or so attribute points to play around with) and maybe distribute them around your other attributes (such as Blood or Soul Reaping). I fail to see how 'take a few points out of curses' suddenly turned into 'your build is shit'.

Although on an unrelated note it does look...suboptimal.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

17 Aug 2007 at 09:29 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

16->14 means you miss all of 4 damage per proc.

There's no point in endlessly shoving attribute points into a single attribute unless you're going to hit a specific breakpoint, sich as +7 rege for FN at 7 shadow.

There is no point in removing attribute points for atribute line on which you focus unless you want to meet breakpoints in other lines either.

around

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew - Diplomatic Embassy

I Have Three Pennies [Pnny] - forever in my heart <3

R/

17 Aug 2007 at 09:39 - 72

Then again, if you decide to focus on 5 attributes but want to have 12 in one of them the other ones are going to suffer.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

17 Aug 2007 at 09:51 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

...

...

Inspiration Magic 8
Death Magic 5
...

8 in insporation is kinda wasted. for Inspired Enchantment you want either 9 or 7 (both 7 and 8 have same energy return, no point having 8 there)

Death magic should be 4+1, not 5 (unless you added that +1 there already)

That should give you enough to raise either SR a bit or blood a bit more.

Darkobra

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Scotland

Type like an idiot, I'll treat you like an idiot

E/Me

17 Aug 2007 at 10:02 - 74

Not read all the thread, don't have time to right now. But I AM going to say I LOVE the assassin updates. And also glad they unnerfed the ritualist. That much exhaustion on one skill bar would get too annoying.

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

17 Aug 2007 at 10:10 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

I said take a few points out of curses since Reckless no longer scales (hey, maybe even 1, that will give you an extra 20 or so attribute points to play around with) and maybe distribute them around your other attributes (such as Blood or Soul Reaping). I fail to see how 'take a few points out of curses' suddenly turned into 'your build is shit'.

Although on an unrelated note it does look...suboptimal.

No, I am not being intentionally "obtuse". What I'm saying is that you suggesting we should just drop a couple of points in Curses to, oh how did you put it, "add some team support", is silly. There are things such as dedicated curser builds and they can't be magically transformed.

As a sidenote to zwei I don't feel like bringing tons of different armor so I just spec DM at 5, I like the +2E from the attunement rune anyway. Regarding Inspiration of course you are correct, it can be adjusted downwards, I sometimes switch rez for Power Drain which I like better specced a little higher.

The Goldenwolf

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

United Kingdom, Cheshire

Mystic Spiral [MYST]

Mo/Me

17 Aug 2007 at 10:11 - 76

Nice to see that they unered the Ritualist and came to a compromise with some of the skills. Can't really comment on the Assasin as I've never played one but it seems good. Also glad that messages won't get cut off in Party Search now. Maybe Anet could try experimental weeks where communites and such get informed of skill changes which would be tried for a week, and an 'official' thread especially made so people can post their opinions and compromises. It'll Just a thought..

Well Thanks for listening Anet and hope to see more compromising and such in the future

Lord Oranos

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fort Aspenwood

17 Aug 2007 at 10:11 - 77

I'm not completely sure, but I was under the impression that even before the nerf to reckless haste, the percentages at 15 and 16 rounded back down to 50%.

If you want to run reckless haste, why not just take out gaze and put in AI, hell, use ai with the echoed ss if you want.

Burton2000

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

A cardboard box in England

Men Of Substance [YMCA]

Mo/Me

17 Aug 2007 at 10:12 - 78

Love the unnerf to ancestors rage means its so nice having it on 1 rit in a team like we do.

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

17 Aug 2007 at 10:13 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

Then again, if you decide to focus on 5 attributes but want to have 12 in one of them the other ones are going to suffer.

If you so wish I can walk you through exactly why the attributes are specced as they are, since you obviously lack the understanding of why the build looks the way it looks. That would have to be done by pm, though, we've diverted the thread long enough.

CHunterX

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Washington

W/E

17 Aug 2007 at 10:18 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

This is starting to get pretty amusing. What do you suggest that an SS nuker should put those points into, and which skills should he bring?

I'll give you my exact build for Hard Mode The Deep.

[skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill][skill]Reckless Haste[/skill][skill]Verata's Gaze[/skill][skill]Spinal Shivers[/skill][skill]Inspired Enchantment[/skill][skill]Blood Ritual[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Curses 12+1+3
Inspiration Magic 8
Death Magic 5
Blood Magic 2
Soul Reaping 9+1

I was under the impression that I was running an optimized build, but now I see I have just been endlessly shoving attribute points into Curses.

So, let us see.

We have Spinal Shivers, which is absolutely indispensible.

We have Blood Ritual, which is absolutely indispensible.

We have Inspired Enchantment, which is absolutely indispensible.

I don't think I need to explain why Spiteful and AE is indispensible.

So, we've already established that Reckless Haste is now fairly useless. Strike that. Come to think of it, I'll give you the rez sig slot as well. Don't need to rez anybody. And Verata's Gaze too. After all, what's the deal with snatching a level 32 Golem. Better let the BiP run and do it and get killed on the midline.

You have 3 open slots and 36 attribute points, which you aren't supposed to invest in Curses. Show me something l33t, baby.

I'll give you my exact build for Hard Mode The Deep.

[skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill][skill]Verata's Gaze[/skill][skill]Spinal Shivers[/skill][skill]Inspired Enchantment[/skill][skill]Blood Ritual[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Curses 12+1+3
Inspiration Magic 7
Death Magic 5
Blood Magic 7
Soul Reaping 8+1

Reckless Haste is useless for Hard Mode, since they get IAS capped. 50% chance of missing is nice, but I'd rather be hit for 20-30 instead of whatever obscene damage some monsters hit when they wander into your backline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Death magic should be 4+1, not 5 (unless you added that +1 there already)

I run 5 Death Magic as well. If I were to drop it down to 4+1, I would have only enough points to raise my Blood Magic, which wouldn't increase the duration of Blood Ritual. I'd rather use a Rune of Attunement and get 2 more Energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

Although on an unrelated note it does look...suboptimal.

If you mean that build is suboptimal, you have obviously never played SS Necro for The Deep Hard Mode. This build is basically required to complete The Deep, regardess of modes, although some skills could be dropped, like Gaze and Haste. If you mean the skill Reckless Haste is suboptimal, I'll agree.