Attunement

What Now

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

Please just take the suggestion in mind and no more rant comments. I just suggested a change in a skill I find plays a valuable role in being an ele that counters are becoming more and more common for, but not alternatives, and perhaps a slight change in energy storage.

Yet this is not an option. All I wanted was for a agreement or a disagreement saying it's fine if managed right. Not all this "learn to play" or "you suck" or "PING YOUR BUILDx10000000" crap. It's not really about my build in the end if you pay attention. Just please don't bother posting a reply and let this die. I wont bother to suggest anything here again if people are just going to put me down as though I haven't beaten all 3 games, as though I haven't entered GvG tournaments, as though I picked up the game yesterday.


Heard this mentioned a lot in game but when I searched the forums I couldn't find anything like it, hope I didn't just do a poor job of that.

Attunement I feel is the Elementalists greatest weakness, one that can not be avoided. Easy to interrupt, easy to strip, not so easy to go without. I understand it's use in helping any profession use Elementalist skills but to be honest if your going to need to spam 25 energy spells I hope your already an Elementalist. Didn't have much of an issue with this until factions and nightfall came out, with areas crawling with interrupts and enchantment strips with daze. When attunement wears off, is stripped, or interrupted, whichever happens first, even with the petty "...if target foe is suffering from X you gain X energy.." when you have spells that cost up to 25 theres only so many you can get out before getting 10 energy isn't even enough to keep it up.

I don't see why you cant just make energy storage similar to rangers expertise, and if you feel the absolute need to take up skill slots to impair Elementalists why not just make it a skill like critical eye? I had a great time playing an Elementalist for over a year but theres only so many times I could be bothered to attune myself and so many builds that can be pulled off due to restraints. If not replace attunements why not let energy storage help benefit your energy management?

EDIT: To clear things up. My argument is not only that attunement is easily countered but that I DO NOT WISH TO USE HALF MY BUILD TO MAINTAIN ANY ENERGY. So stop posting suggestions. My argument is also why energy storage does not help manage energy, not HOW to use skills from it to seeing how any profession can glyph attune.

Alexandra-Sweet

Alexandra-Sweet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2006

That one place with the trees, mountains and snow

Ember Power Mercenaries [EMP]

Me/

I somewhat agree with you, the Attunement spells need a buff. But what your saying is kind of too extreme for me.

Just give it a 10 second recharge, 1 second casting time and make it last a bit longer. I hate seeing my Attunement spell being removed right after I cast it, it's practicly shutting down an Elementalist in MOST cases.

linh

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Mo/

They are fine. Use it better.

Kool Pajamas

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

Attunements are fine the way they are, though I agree that E-storage should have been more like ranger expertise for ele spells. But it's too late for that now and attunes work fine for it.

What Now

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

No it's not too late, if they can still edit necros, rits, and mesmers primary attributes I'm sure they can for eles. Sad point is you don't even need to be an ele, attunement and the glyph manage your energy, all energy storage does is stall how long before you run out with those. Which pretty much makes me wonder what is so great about being a primary ele besides the runes.

Alexandra-Sweet

Alexandra-Sweet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2006

That one place with the trees, mountains and snow

Ember Power Mercenaries [EMP]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by linh
They are fine. Use it better.
How are we suppose to use it better? As far as I know you can only use a skill one way, sure you could use a cover enchantment but some Elementalist can't afford to sacrifice a skill slot for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas
I agree that E-storage should have been more like ranger expertise for ele spells. But it's too late for that now and attunes work fine for it.
In the last months Soul Reaping got changed, Fast Casting got changed and Spawning Power got changed, who knows they might change Energy Storage too!

Winterclaw

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

Attunement used to be a little stronger and recharge quicker but they nerfed it because of warriors and sassis abusing it in PvP.

Now if they moved the spells to energy storage...

legion_rat

legion_rat

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

668 the neighbor of the beast

TFK

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
Attunement used to be a little stronger and recharge quicker but they nerfed it because of warriors and sassis abusing it in PvP.

Now if they moved the spells to energy storage...
/signed

and put them back to their original state.

~the rat~

Kain666

Kain666

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2007

Bran - Romania

TIGG

Mo/A

/signed

If they would reduce the recharge time form 45 seconds to 10 or something like that would be great. Attunements are essential for elementalist...

/cheers

What Now

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

To be honest the idea of moving it to energy storage and actually making it so there is a benefit to being an ele sounds nice to me.

Div

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

Spam less 25 energy skills pl0x?

Div

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
Attunement used to be a little stronger and recharge quicker but they nerfed it because of warriors and sassis abusing it in PvP.

Now if they moved the spells to energy storage...
I believe you are talking about conjures. If I saw a warrior running attunement, I'd just laugh at him and ignore him when he uses that hamstorm combo on me...

What Now

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
Spam less 25 energy skills pl0x?
No, I just don't want one enchantment determining whether I can or can not cast spells. As said before this is not ALWAYS the case but most builds need it. Normal eles can only get 3 meteor showers/rodgorts out with no attunement and their done, or a deep freeze maelstrom and a snare, or a few lightning hammers so it's not all about nuking.

Echuu Ishtar

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sacred Forge Knights (SFK)

I think attunes are fine tbh. In PvE, cast it before you go attack a mob, and have others run in and take the first hits so you're less vulnerable to a strip. If you find yourself in battle without it, carry GOLE (which should be in your build if you're spamming a lot of expensive spells anyway) for a backup. I think it adds the right amount of balance to the ele in PvE.

$0.02

Curse You

Curse You

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

South Pole

The Magus Order

N/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by What Now
No, I just don't want one enchantment determining whether I can or can not cast spells. As said before this is not ALWAYS the case but most builds need it. Normal eles can only get 3 meteor showers/rodgorts out with no attunement and their done, or a deep freeze maelstrom and a snare, or a few lightning hammers so it's not all about nuking.
Because there are no other options for elementalists...

[skill]Energy Boon[/skill][skill]Ether Prism[/skill][skill]Ether Renewal[/skill][skill]Master of Magic[/skill][skill]Mind Blast[/skill][skill]Second Wind[/skill][skill]Ether Prodigy[/skill][skill]Glowstone[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill]

Alexandra-Sweet

Alexandra-Sweet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2006

That one place with the trees, mountains and snow

Ember Power Mercenaries [EMP]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curse You
Because there are no other options for elementalists...

[skill]Energy Boon[/skill][skill]Ether Prism[/skill][skill]Ether Renewal[/skill][skill]Master of Magic[/skill][skill]Mind Blast[/skill][skill]Second Wind[/skill][skill]Ether Prodigy[/skill][skill]Glowstone[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill]
More then half of which are Elite and Conditional...

What Now

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curse You
Because there are no other options for elementalists...

[skill]Energy Boon[/skill][skill]Ether Prism[/skill][skill]Ether Renewal[/skill][skill]Master of Magic[/skill][skill]Mind Blast[/skill][skill]Second Wind[/skill][skill]Ether Prodigy[/skill][skill]Glowstone[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill]
Already talked about the last two, in the face of spamming or high cost spells they matter little to none with the 10/25 energy needed. Exhaustion and side effects? Why don't the other professions have things like this to further set them back? Like warriors adrenalin limit is lowered if certain skills are used.

Oh and thanks, just what I need, another enchantment to be stripped, another slot to waist with neither defense of offense but just to simply be. Because as I understand eles do not fall behind at the fact, because you know the stances warriors and rangers need to keep up for their primary attributes to be worth it, oh wait, they don't.

So you expect me to waist two+ slots including an elite just to be able to stand and then what? Spam flare? Thats effective, and compared to the DPS of meteor shower, with the 5 second cast, 60 recharge, 9 seconds to work IF it even hits at all, they need something to slow them down right? Or else they'd just be overpowered. Let the skills be the downfall not the profession.

What Now

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

I'm not saying it's unmanageable, sure I can bring 3 skills to manage energy and a resurrect just to manage my build and blow off half my skill slots but to be honest I find it to be a hassle and useless in the face of strips and interrupts and quickening spirits. I just don't think I should have to do that that's all, make use of the primary attribute. I've seen an attuned MoR mesmer manage their energy just as well and get even more spells out, sure they ran out of energy a bit before but adding in all they got in beforehand in it just shouldn't be. I think a profession should exceed at what it does above all others. The idea of another profession even doing a close job, warriors trapping almost as well as rangers, necros tanking better than warriors, or anything else just seems out of place. Why? Because anyone can attune.

Just Another Chest Runner

Just Another Chest Runner

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Paper St. Fight Club [Soap]

Mo/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curse You
Because there are no other options for elementalists...

[skill]Energy Boon[/skill][skill]Ether Prism[/skill][skill]Ether Renewal[/skill][skill]Master of Magic[/skill][skill]Mind Blast[/skill][skill]Second Wind[/skill][skill]Ether Prodigy[/skill][skill]Glowstone[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill]
wheres GoLE?

What Now

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Another Chest Runner
wheres GoLE?
And glyph of energy and such you mean? Really is no point, I already talked about this, your just impairing more and more and more skill slots. If this is what being an ele is about why not make an enchantment that grants you energy regeneration and if you don't have it on you don't get any. Simple as that if your just aiming to take room

Curse You

Curse You

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

South Pole

The Magus Order

N/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Another Chest Runner
wheres GoLE?
It doesn't show up under energy gain skills. Besides, it's basically given to every elementalist from the start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by What Now
Stuff
I think the problem here isn't the elementalist, but the person trying to play it.

If they elementalist sucked as much as you think it does, why is it then that it is still being used in both high end PvP and PvE? If it was so crap, no one would want to use it.

I've already shown you all options. If you're so concerned about enchantment stripping and interrupts, you can just use [wiki]Glyph of Concentration[/wiki] + [wiki]Ether Prism[/wiki]. With that you don't even need an attunement spell.

Kool Pajamas

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

Well technically it's never too late yes,as long as anet keeps up with balances, but revamping energy storage would be a huge change to how eles use their skills. There would have to be major balances to go with it. I don't think it's worth it at this point in the game's life imo. That's where I say it's too late.

MagmaRed

MagmaRed

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2007

Our Crabs Know True [LOVE]

R/

I see many Elementalists refuse to take a cover enchant. Reason I get is always the same... 'no room'. Aura of Restoration is an excellent cover enchant. It has a fast cast time (no interrupts) and a fast recharge (reapply if stripped). In addition to keeping the Attunement up, it provides some nice healing, which a Monk will appreciate.

If you can't remove 1 skill from your bar to use something like a cover enchant, then you need to rethink your skill bar.

Alexandra-Sweet

Alexandra-Sweet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2006

That one place with the trees, mountains and snow

Ember Power Mercenaries [EMP]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curse You
If they elementalist sucked as much as you think it does, why is it then that it is still being used in both high end PvP and PvE? If it was so crap, no one would want to use it.
It's still being used because an Elementalist depends on it, some builds can't sacrifice an Elite Slot for another energy managment spell, that would make every Elite Skill in Earth, Fire, Water and Air Magic useless.

What Now

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

Ok seriously your not getting it. I've played ele for over a year and sure if I bring glyphs and enchantments and cover enchantments and waist half my energy using those I can nuke a little, but I don't see why I should waist half my build to manage my energy none the less in a way other professions can.

And every response I get is bring more enchantments, bring more glyphs, bring this bring that, I don't want a build limited to four skills!

What Now

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curse You
If they elementalist sucked as much as you think it does, why is it then that it is still being used in both high end PvP and PvE? If it was so crap, no one would want to use it.
Not saying it's crap saying its under powered and I'm sorry you don't pay enough attention to see people can also replace the ele with a rt/e or mo/e runner. To be honest I've seen those with +15 -1 sets to make up for any energy they didn't have since it was all about the running skill until they got into actual battle.

Thom Bangalter

Thom Bangalter

Grindin'

Join Date: Dec 2005

MO

E/Mo

Don't be bad, use a cover enchantment. lrn2play.

What Now

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

I know how to play, I have freaking guardian titles on my ele, I just don't think part of being a profession should be relying on an enchantment when the others don't, now your just being ignorant.

NeonPink

NeonPink

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

TIGI

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by What Now
I know how to play, I have freaking guardian titles on my ele, I just don't think part of being a profession should be relying on an enchantment when the others don't, now your just being ignorant.
Look, again i'm sorry but you don't -rely- on the Enchant, its just alot of builds use it. You could easily trade it in for a "If spell hits a X foe, you gain X energy", There are loads of Glyph's that are there to stop interruption or energy cost.. If you can't spare a space for one of these in your builds then... Well let me put it this way;
1.Would you rather have your bar now? And get interrupted Constantly or
2.Would you like 1 less spell but NOT be interrupted/have your enchant removed..
Now what one sounds more effective over all?
I mean jezz you complain about not having space since you can't nuke, what about the space that Enchant is taking up, Ele's are not "broken" or anything. They are played fine, if you cant take something to manage your energy or indeed counter removale/interrupt then your obviously playing the class wrong. You seem to be the only Experienced Ele here who wants it that badly so there must be 'something' wrong, iv played Ele's from 1-20 through all 3 campaigns and in PvP all the time, you don't rely on it and there are many spells/skills to counter/protect it..
The only possible way I can imagen improving Attunment spells (and keeping them fair) is to A, reduce cast time to 1/1.5secs (harder to interrupt) or B, reduce the cooldown to say, 30sec's instead of 45-60.. that or give Water/Air versions of Glowstone/Glowing Gaze *shrug* Then everything would be even again.

-Part of the skill of playing an Ele is learning to Manage your Energy-


Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
Attunement used to be a little stronger and recharge quicker but they nerfed it because of warriors and sassis abusing it in PvP.

Now if they moved the spells to energy storage...
This however i am totaly /signed for, it sounds alot smarter in a way and if it was in Energy Storage it could grant a cool bonus like;
"For 36-55 seconds, you are attuned to 'X'. You gain 30% of the energy cost of the spell each time you use
'X' Magic, aswell as an extra 1 Energy for each (3-5*)points you have in Energy Storage".
*Not sure what would be best, most Ele's take 10-12 ES so per 4 points i was thinking, (at 12 you get an extra 3energy and 30% spell cost) but ANet may think it needs to be higher/lower.

MagmaRed

MagmaRed

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2007

Our Crabs Know True [LOVE]

R/

[skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]Liquid Flame[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Rodgort's Invocation[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

What is wrong with that build? High damage (4 skills for damage, all with good recharges), 3 skills for energy management (1 also does damage), 1 skill for self healing (which also works as a cover enchant for your Attunement), and a rez for fallen teammates.

What is your build, that you can't fit in a cover enchant or secondary energy management skill?

mazey vorstagg

mazey vorstagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Nodnol

Meeting of Lost Minds

E/Mo

I just carry Earth attunement and Armor of Earth. Always cast AoE afterwards and the chance of stripping is reduced.

NeonPink

NeonPink

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

TIGI

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagmaRed
What is your build, that you can't fit in a cover enchant or secondary energy management skill?
Yes id have to agree, could you possibly post your build(s) please? 'caus something sure doesnt fit

HawkofStorms

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

Also, I have played an Ele many times without using attunements. A E/Me with inspiration can do great. Mantra of Recall was my favoirite skill when I first beat Phrophecies.

jesusrunz

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

You blow

Mo/

I think a person can last fighting a mob without attune, then reapply after the mob is dead.

What Now

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Also, I have played an Ele many times without using attunements. A E/Me with inspiration can do great. Mantra of Recall was my favoirite skill when I first beat Phrophecies.
Once again more skill slots and attribute to do a job your suppose to be doing, my complain isn't HOW to manage energy, it's WHY energy storage does not and you need several other skills that anyone can have to pull off builds. Simple as that.

NeonPink

NeonPink

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

TIGI

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by What Now
my complain isn't HOW to manage energy, it's WHY energy storage does not
Because it frikkin gives you a HUGE energy pool! Sheesh... why would you complain about an Energy bar of 70+Energy when most classes get 20-30?

What Now

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonPink
Because it frikkin gives you a HUGE energy pool! Sheesh... why would you complain about an Energy bar of 70+Energy when most classes get 20-30?
Actually thats warrior/ranger, the other casters I've seen have around 50 energy. Either way I see that benefit but when everyones regened and moved on you STILL only have half energy, so the benefit is also a downfall seeing how you have to wait more for it to come back as well. I'd much rather have 50 and things cost less or get more energy back so I can maintain it more. Because to be honest +30 energy doesn't mean anything but the number of spells you can get out before your dry and then how much longer you have to wait for it to get back.

A11Eur0

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/

Max energy for an ele is always higher than that of any other profession because of energy storage. To get the same amount of energy as an ele without runes of attunement or radiant insigs, a non-ele needs all of that, and energy boosting weapon/offhand. I've seen eles with 100+ energy without spell buffs like mighty was vorizun, etc. Eles have a HUGE amount of energy and plenty of 10 or less energy cast AoE spells. if you're relying on Meteor shower or other 25 energy + exhaustion spells to be a good nuker, you need to find a new build.

What Now

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by A11Eur0
Max energy for an ele is always higher than that of any other profession because of energy storage. To get the same amount of energy as an ele without runes of attunement or radiant insigs, a non-ele needs all of that, and energy boosting weapon/offhand. I've seen eles with 100+ energy without spell buffs like mighty was vorizun, etc. Eles have a HUGE amount of energy and plenty of 10 or less energy cast AoE spells. if you're relying on Meteor shower or other 25 energy + exhaustion spells to be a good nuker, you need to find a new build.
Nuker, sorry forgot lightning hammer, maelstrom, deep freeze, and so on were for nukers my bad. I forgot that there is no need for any of those in any builds, so I might as well not bring them...yes it's beyond nuking, and yes builds work fine when attuned, no they can not all efficiently run without attunement, yes I can change those skills, then what is the point of having them in the game?

Molock

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Qu??bec

Legacy of Angels [Halo]

E/

People, learn to play elementalist...
Cover you attunement, and if you have Glyph of renewal on your bar.. you can cut the recharge to 10 seconds...

Also, ele's aren't meant to be in the direct line of fire.. let the tank tank and cast from as far away as possible. I can't evem remember that last time I got my attunement stripped in PvE...

As for the 25e spell spam.. well you aren't exactly supposed to spam them anyway... and there are ways to cover their cost. For example.. you cast Rodgorts Invocation... well first of all you have fire attunement and if you have glowing gaze you can regain some energy.. on top of that you have glyphs (I am thining of Glyph of lesser energy) which can cut you cost on high energy spells by 18 if you are running 15 e storage.

There really isn't anything to complain about, the attunements are working perfectly atm.