Perhaps it's just my current paranoia (I gave away a Victory token last week for free and have been living in fear of being banned, accused of duping) but I have been thinking about my current main in-game pursuit, and just how legitimate it is; buying unid golds.
The Wisdom title is the most feasible PvE title that I can chase untiil GWEN comes out; so whenever I'm not putting toons through NF I hang around Bergen and Drok's and buy unids from monks with names in unusual scripts who don't belong to guilds...... and their chat's not much good either......... I sometimes wonder if they're bots but if I ask them questions they'll make some irrelevant reply. I don't like to press on the matter them as I'm worried I'll sound racist. (And get banned.)
Anyway, they offer golds about 3-4k for 7. Even post-HM deflation, this seems "too good to be true" to me- this strikes me as much the same reason for banning those people who were accepting ambraces- they took deals that "were too good to be true".
Anyway, there have been a some posts about unids on this forum recently, and the practice seems to be frowned upon in the wiki, but there doesn't seem to be another realistic way of getting Wisdom maxed in under twenty years without buying them. So I wondered could other members of the community help calibrate my moral compass on this one?
Buying Un-identified Golds: Will I be Banned?
Vamis Threen
ForgeWhelp
4k for 7 unid is pretty common now, the price has been slowly dropping for a while.
EroChrono
First of all; if you gave away 1, just 1, victory token you have absolutely no reason, what so ever, to be banned, as 1 token is worth about 2 seconds of farming, no big deal..
As for the unid'd issue; yesterday, while browsing the screenshot forum, I saw someone who bought 2 unid's for 500g each (rare skin weapons, perfect dmg mod :P), he seems to be a respected member of the guru comminuty and I doubt someone like that would let himself into illegit activities to later show it off on a forum..
I doubt it would be considered illegal by ANet to buy those golds. As Gaile said on the duping issue; ANet can check every single trade, they'd see there just unid'd golds. Buying it is not the crime, I'd say..
As for the unid'd issue; yesterday, while browsing the screenshot forum, I saw someone who bought 2 unid's for 500g each (rare skin weapons, perfect dmg mod :P), he seems to be a respected member of the guru comminuty and I doubt someone like that would let himself into illegit activities to later show it off on a forum..
I doubt it would be considered illegal by ANet to buy those golds. As Gaile said on the duping issue; ANet can check every single trade, they'd see there just unid'd golds. Buying it is not the crime, I'd say..
Saraphim
That's an interesting point, I think. Until recently I didn't know that some unid sellers were bots, yes I know.. .naieve.. but then I never bought them so had no real awareness.
Considering that (generally speaking) people seem to think bots are "illegal" or at best a pain, I find it odd that they would be willing to buy these golds at all. After all, the gold they pay for them will then be put online and sold for real world cash, so buying them only adds to the bot problem, yes?
So, it could be argued that knowingly buying unid golds from bots is not much better than knowingly buying duped items? If they know or suspect that the seller is a bot, then are they (the buyers) breaking the EULA to obtain the golds? Whether it has as big an impact on the economy as duping, I don't know. I'm not a trader, but it seems that it's been going on longer than the duping (was) and won't be stopping any time soon.
Just my 2 pennies anyway.
Considering that (generally speaking) people seem to think bots are "illegal" or at best a pain, I find it odd that they would be willing to buy these golds at all. After all, the gold they pay for them will then be put online and sold for real world cash, so buying them only adds to the bot problem, yes?
So, it could be argued that knowingly buying unid golds from bots is not much better than knowingly buying duped items? If they know or suspect that the seller is a bot, then are they (the buyers) breaking the EULA to obtain the golds? Whether it has as big an impact on the economy as duping, I don't know. I'm not a trader, but it seems that it's been going on longer than the duping (was) and won't be stopping any time soon.
Just my 2 pennies anyway.
Solas
yeah, im curious too.
have anet said anything about it?
i nkow its been goign on for a long whil,e jsut reassureance i guess
have anet said anything about it?
i nkow its been goign on for a long whil,e jsut reassureance i guess
makosi
I occasionally buy them if i see 7 for 3.5k or something.
I've learned that having and pursuing ethics is pointless in GW because you only shoot yourself in the foot. Even if you know they're bot farmers and gold sellers, you should do as you please because you can't enjoy the game whilst worrying about the origin of the goods.
You most definitely won't be banned if it is a legitimate trade between two players. The other person - even if it is a bot farmer - is not your problem.
I've learned that having and pursuing ethics is pointless in GW because you only shoot yourself in the foot. Even if you know they're bot farmers and gold sellers, you should do as you please because you can't enjoy the game whilst worrying about the origin of the goods.
You most definitely won't be banned if it is a legitimate trade between two players. The other person - even if it is a bot farmer - is not your problem.
joze
As to the question of ethics,
ANet thinks some things are against their EULA, and some not. I don't think you will be banned for buying unidentified gold items though - people have been doing that for years now.
As to accepting trades with 200+ Armbraces without even being suspicious, that's probably what ANet think is against their EULA.
ANet thinks some things are against their EULA, and some not. I don't think you will be banned for buying unidentified gold items though - people have been doing that for years now.
As to accepting trades with 200+ Armbraces without even being suspicious, that's probably what ANet think is against their EULA.
Saraphim
Hmmm... but could long-term unid selling / buying between gold seller's bots and players be just as much a EULA offence as one-off dupe buying?
Say for example a player had bought half of their wisdom title using unid golds at 7 for 3.5k (over time probably) .. I make that about 2.5m gold that's gone to gold sellers for them to sell online.
I guess you're right. At the end of the day if Vamis wants to "balance" his moral compass on this one, the only thing I can say is, if you think bots harm the game, don't buy from them, as you are most certainly aiding their gold gathering pursuits. If you don't care, buy them. If it's not a bannable offence then you can only decide for yourself based on your personal feelings on the subject.
Say for example a player had bought half of their wisdom title using unid golds at 7 for 3.5k (over time probably) .. I make that about 2.5m gold that's gone to gold sellers for them to sell online.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by joze
ANet thinks some things are against their EULA, and some not. I don't think you will be banned for buying unidentified gold items though - people have been doing that for years now.
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liner
you could ofcourse not bother with the wisdom title track in the first place, and go for the treasure hunter one instead?
Roshi_ikkyu
I've done it before and I'm still ingame.
I know a few sellers who are actual players (They chest run, and end up with alot of crap golds)
And the weird ones which people consider bot are just gold farmer employees. Haven't heard of anyone yet getting banned for buying unided, but you are likely to get pm about gold sites and unided for x K
I know a few sellers who are actual players (They chest run, and end up with alot of crap golds)
And the weird ones which people consider bot are just gold farmer employees. Haven't heard of anyone yet getting banned for buying unided, but you are likely to get pm about gold sites and unided for x K
korcan
youre just supporting botters by buying unid golds. people who buy ig gold via real world cash would be disappointed if you stopped.
i dont care if you do or you dont but im sure you wont be banned for doing so. buying unids that is
i dont care if you do or you dont but im sure you wont be banned for doing so. buying unids that is
onerabbit
ive bought about 3000 unids (guess were i got em =D).. not been baned and not even thought about being banned
Coridan
Same here i often sale unids....and i don't even bother to test em for anything other than hp mods. When i get a mule full of them I either sale em unid or find someone paying to id golds...which equals out to about the same cash...sometimes the latter is better since you genereally get the items that you go back..and sometime they have decen mods which can be salvaged or sold.
So to say that all UNID sellers are bots is a lie...please refrain from commenting about things that you don't know about.
So to say that all UNID sellers are bots is a lie...please refrain from commenting about things that you don't know about.
Hou Lifu
Big Brother, err ANet, is watching.
Malice Black
Banned for buying unid?? lol
Nah..I've bought tons of them from gold sellers/bots..
Nah..I've bought tons of them from gold sellers/bots..
The Herbalizer
Bots used to be a good source of income back in the day. Never heard of a ban from buying from bots.
Griff Mon
I bought several of these when getting close to another tier of that title and only once did I think I was dealing with a bot. Kept trying to open a trade window with me and sell me more after I closed the window. Did this again and again until I zoned out.
Agent Mold3r
some people say they can check un-ided items for good mods....if there arent any good mods/runes they sell them, how do you do this?
makosi
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Originally Posted by Agent Mold3r
some people say they can check un-ided items for good mods....if there arent any good mods/runes they sell them, how do you do this?
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You can change the condition to establish which modifier it does have. For example, enchant yourself, use a stance, hex the foe, become hexed and see which condition raises the damage for Wild Blow.
*The above is a rough idea. I don't know the solid facts.*
B E A S T
Dude...you gave away a victory token?
Im emailing Anet right after this post. That is unacceptable.
Im emailing Anet right after this post. That is unacceptable.
My Sweet Revenga
Well we should think about this. If I were unscrupilous enough to take advantage of duping (and I'm not saying I do, or even know how to in the first place), duping unid golds would be the last thing I would do. I would probably dupe ectos or diamonds 10 at a time to be safe, duping 250 ectos is a little too obvious. Or to be even safer, I'd dupe some really expensive high level item like a perfect gothic sword, fellblade, or elemental sword and sell that. Sell those off once and you have quite a bit of cash. Duping unid golds is just tedius and pointless for just 1k per unid gold. They don't even stack.
I don't know how the duping actually worked, but I can only speculate. Since the duping bug seems to be related to the disconnect/reconnect feature, it's safe to assume that the dupers probably dropped an item, purposely disconnected, and reconnected and voila the item the dropped is back in their inventory and they pick up the one they dropped before they disconnected, hence duping it. Either that or let a guildie pick up the duped item. I recall on several occasions where I've been disconnected from a server, and upon logging back in, I find my character back in an outpost with my inventory back to the way it was before I mapped out, and basically I had just wasted the last 5-10 minutes of gaming. Not much different from the old Diablo2 duping method.
So you can either dupe an unid gold for an extra 1k per disconnect/reconnect and fill your inventory with duped unid golds for a net gain of a pitiful 20-30k, or you can dupe something worth more like a small stack of 20 ectos or a nice weapon for 100k profit a dupe. Really if those dupers were smart, they wouldn't have duped literally millions of plat worth of the same item so quickly which is why they got caught. So really I don't think you have anything to worry about with buying unid golds because there were really better things to spend time duping, like freakin armbraces -_-
I don't know how the duping actually worked, but I can only speculate. Since the duping bug seems to be related to the disconnect/reconnect feature, it's safe to assume that the dupers probably dropped an item, purposely disconnected, and reconnected and voila the item the dropped is back in their inventory and they pick up the one they dropped before they disconnected, hence duping it. Either that or let a guildie pick up the duped item. I recall on several occasions where I've been disconnected from a server, and upon logging back in, I find my character back in an outpost with my inventory back to the way it was before I mapped out, and basically I had just wasted the last 5-10 minutes of gaming. Not much different from the old Diablo2 duping method.
So you can either dupe an unid gold for an extra 1k per disconnect/reconnect and fill your inventory with duped unid golds for a net gain of a pitiful 20-30k, or you can dupe something worth more like a small stack of 20 ectos or a nice weapon for 100k profit a dupe. Really if those dupers were smart, they wouldn't have duped literally millions of plat worth of the same item so quickly which is why they got caught. So really I don't think you have anything to worry about with buying unid golds because there were really better things to spend time duping, like freakin armbraces -_-
Enko
Quote:
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Originally Posted by My Sweet Revenga
Well we should think about this. If I were unscrupilous enough to take advantage of duping (and I'm not saying I do, or even know how to in the first place), duping unid golds would be the last thing I would do. I would probably dupe ectos or diamonds 10 at a time to be safe, duping 250 ectos is a little too obvious. Or to be even safer, I'd dupe some really expensive high level item like a perfect gothic sword, fellblade, or elemental sword and sell that. Sell those off once and you have quite a bit of cash. Duping unid golds is just tedius and pointless for just 1k per unid gold. They don't even stack.
I don't know how the duping actually worked, but I can only speculate. Since the duping bug seems to be related to the disconnect/reconnect feature, it's safe to assume that the dupers probably dropped an item, purposely disconnected, and reconnected and voila the item the dropped is back in their inventory and they pick up the one they dropped before they disconnected, hence duping it. Either that or let a guildie pick up the duped item. I recall on several occasions where I've been disconnected from a server, and upon logging back in, I find my character back in an outpost with my inventory back to the way it was before I mapped out, and basically I had just wasted the last 5-10 minutes of gaming. Not much different from the old Diablo2 duping method. So you can either dupe an unid gold for an extra 1k per disconnect/reconnect and fill your inventory with duped unid golds for a net gain of a pitiful 20-30k, or you can dupe something worth more like a small stack of 20 ectos or a nice weapon for 100k profit a dupe. Really if those dupers were smart, they wouldn't have duped literally millions of plat worth of the same item so quickly which is why they got caught. So really I don't think you have anything to worry about with buying unid golds because there were really better things to spend time duping, like freakin armbraces -_- |
i've been buying unid golds for a looong time. no problems here since most likely you're buying from a farmer who's paid to play. most bots can't sell to players and the few that can (such as in droks) are horrible at it and can be the source of many a good deal (sup vig for 500g anyone?). because of that, most of the botters seem to have gone away from merchant bots and just sell everything off to the merchant.
pork soldier
I read this thread and I lol'd.
Muspellsheimr
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vamis Threen
Perhaps it's just my current paranoia
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Squirrel Oo
Lol I got so worried about getting banned for just playing Guild Wars that... I started playing WoW LOL... Nice one Anet 
No srsly, I just got bored but this ban fear is ridiculous. Players are not doing anything wrong and some play in constant fear of getting banned. Anet's politics seem too hars so far.
No srsly, I just got bored but this ban fear is ridiculous. Players are not doing anything wrong and some play in constant fear of getting banned. Anet's politics seem too hars so far.
KingKryton
these bots selling for 7 for 4k are ruining the market imo. i used to chest run but now its not worth it unless you get a really good drop because you cant get a decent price for your unids
Xx_Sorin_xX
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Originally Posted by Vamis Threen
Anyway, there have been a some posts about unids on this forum recently, and the practice seems to be frowned upon in the wiki,
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Roshi_ikkyu
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Agent Mold3r
some people say they can check un-ided items for good mods....if there arent any good mods/runes they sell them, how do you do this?
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And wtf, why bring up the dupe, My Sweet Revenga!
You have no idea how it was done, and your idea is so wrong its a social outcast for being wrong! And it has no connection to this thread. Stop duping topics.
Roshi_ikkyu
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Originally Posted by Xx_Sorin_xX
I always thought wiki frowned on buying unid items because people know what the mods are before they sell them, and no one would sell a well modded weapon as unid. So basically your ripping yourself off hoping for a good weapon. However if your just going for unids and dont particarly care what the mods are, then I can't see why its frowned upon. It's just another alternate way to get a title that is ridiculous to get anyway.
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But with the weapons u can still get some decent items, But if your buying them for the mods or because you wanna try ur luck don't bother. There always likely to have been tested.
[b] Most people buy unided items because identifying them add to there title (as Sorin mentioned) and is really the only reason I buy unided
Enix
Buying Un-Ided is not anywhere near buying/selling Minis for hundreds of amberances. No rules are broken or exploits are utilized when people get un-ideds.
People buy Un-ids for the wisdom track, so people dont care about the mods.
Buy away...
People buy Un-ids for the wisdom track, so people dont care about the mods.
Buy away...
My Sweet Revenga
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Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu
makosi has the basic idea but most people just test for the 30hp+ mod, which is easy as.
And wtf, why bring up the dupe, My Sweet Revenga! You have no idea how it was done, and your idea is so wrong its a social outcast for being wrong! And it has no connection to this thread. Stop duping topics. |
Secondly, I brought up the dupe thing cuz... I dunno.... maybe because the OP brought it up first? He also mentions cheap armbraces which duh duh duh.... leads to the duping topic. His post was vague enough that either he was paranoid that the unid golds he thought about buying were duped, or he's super duper parnoid that buying bot farmed unid golds for so cheap might lead to a ban. Either case, best to be thorough. God I hope you were just joking with this post. You make it sound like you know how the duping thing works hrmmm?
Buying unid golds 3-4k for 7 doesn't sound out of the ordinary. They used to be 1k per unid gold. But like everything else, supply has increased while demand might have dropped slightly, therefore prices dropped. Also, from watching bot "behaviour" it seems they are programmed very simply. Go out, kill some stuff, pick up everything, zone back into town, sell everything to merch, repeat. This would happen regardless of whether the items are gold or purple and they would have to have a real person monitoring the bot to filter out gold items. Apparently many bots are NOT monitored as some players are messing with the bots by forming a party with the bot and screwing up its run. If the bot was monitored at all times, this would not be possible.
savage vapor 33
LoL it used to be everyone went to imperial sanctum to get their fill on unid. Now its not as popular due to the chest changing.
A11Eur0
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Originally Posted by EroChrono
First of all; if you gave away 1, just 1, victory token you have absolutely no reason, what so ever, to be banned, as 1 token is worth about 2 seconds of farming, no big deal..
As for the unid'd issue; yesterday, while browsing the screenshot forum, I saw someone who bought 2 unid's for 500g each (rare skin weapons, perfect dmg mod :P), he seems to be a respected member of the guru comminuty and I doubt someone like that would let himself into illegit activities to later show it off on a forum.. I doubt it would be considered illegal by ANet to buy those golds. As Gaile said on the duping issue; ANet can check every single trade, they'd see there just unid'd golds. Buying it is not the crime, I'd say.. |
Series
If the gold UNID sellers are bots, I bet there is a way to manipulate their AI... 
Gaile Gray
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Originally Posted by B E A S T
Dude...you gave away a victory token?
Im emailing Anet right after this post. That is unacceptable. |
(Seriously, Vamis, that's nice, not bannable!)I've asked for a more formal response on this matter, because the sale of unidentified gold items is sort of a "grey area" in my mind... no pun intended. When I know more, I'll post.
Hyper.nl
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
I think we will let it slide.
(Seriously, Vamis, that's nice, not bannable!)I've asked for a more formal response on this matter, because the sale of unidentified gold items is sort of a "grey area" in my mind... no pun intended. When I know more, I'll post. |
Suuk
Quote:
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Originally Posted by B E A S T
Dude...you gave away a victory token?
Im emailing Anet right after this post. That is unacceptable. |
I am curious what Gaile has to comment after she consulted ppl about her grAy area.
t_the_nihilst
I'd personally be careful that you aren't buying those unidents from a bot. I've seen what I assume are bots running around in major towns.
They are usually low level monks with no clothes who spam in incorrect English something to the tune of "7 uniden gold 4k. Trade open plz."
Once someone I know traded with one of these bots who sold him armor that after he identified them were actually somehow missing their runes. When he tried to PM the bot (He obviously didn’t know it was a bot at first) it would answer with the same thing it was spamming in all chat. He opened trade with it again and it presented more unident armor (assumably blank of their runes).
These bots are easy to spot and I haven't seen one in a while, thank baby Jeebus.
They are usually low level monks with no clothes who spam in incorrect English something to the tune of "7 uniden gold 4k. Trade open plz."
Once someone I know traded with one of these bots who sold him armor that after he identified them were actually somehow missing their runes. When he tried to PM the bot (He obviously didn’t know it was a bot at first) it would answer with the same thing it was spamming in all chat. He opened trade with it again and it presented more unident armor (assumably blank of their runes).
These bots are easy to spot and I haven't seen one in a while, thank baby Jeebus.
Vamis Threen
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
I think we will let it slide.
(Seriously, Vamis, that's nice, not bannable!)I've asked for a more formal response on this matter, because the sale of unidentified gold items is sort of a "grey area" in my mind... no pun intended. When I know more, I'll post. |
Anyway the unid thing is a bit of a bind atm:
1)Buying unids is the only way to get the Wisdom title maxed in under a decade (unfortunately I'm not joking, it took me 9 months to id 900 in normal gameplay and that was with some chest running)
2)Buying from real players seems to be a legitimate activity.
3)Bots and real players are hard to tell apart.
When GWEN come out I suspect my interest in unids will wane, and since the number of suspicious characters selling unids seems to have dropped-off since the duping-purges, it may all become academic.
Gaile Gray
The official word, as I thought it would be, is that we're fine with people trading things that they legitimately earn in the game.