Why do you feel you have the right to pick apart my build and demand changes?

I'm curious.

When we are in the same group, why do you feel that you have the right to pick apart my build and ask me to (or worse, DEMAND that I) make changes?

I do not care if you ARE a walking encyclopedia of all knowledge on every skill in the game.

Do NOT tell me what build to run.

IF you feel very strongly that a certain build or specific skill works best in a particular mission I am very happy to discuss it briefly with you and IF I feel you have a valid point I will change my build.

However, I have been in far too many groups, both PUGs and Guild groups where a know-it-all takes it upon them selves to *demand* changes in EVERY SINGLE group member's skill bar and when asked why the particular change should be made they begin to sputter and fluster and get on their soap box to speak down *upon* us that they KNOW what is best.

The most recent occurrence of this scenario happened to me just this evening. In an all alliance group, made up of "adults." We were going into an end game mission in NF. So everyone there had exeperience, it was not the case of one experienced person (know-it-all) trying to teach new players.

The whole group was made up of alliance members, not even a PUG where I usually see this sort of thing:
We were all on Team Speak

Know it all, speaking to me: "do you have skill abc?

Me replying: "No I have 3 similar skills that I feel do the job, but do not carry that particular one for this mission. "

Know it all: "please bring it."

Me replying: "Why do you feel I should bring THAT particular skill? I am comfortable with the skills",....((at this point I am cut off in mid statement by *know-it-all*))

Know it all: " *TSK!!,.... ((In an exasperated voice)).... because we have done this mission many many many many times and we know that skill abc is the only way to go" etc. etc. etc.


Well guess what?! I have done this mission many, many, many, many MANY ( that is one more *many* than you, [ for those keeping track]) times, and I am comfortable with my build.

I can not tell you how many times I have been in groups where these people just feel the need to pick apart everyone's build.


I won't post my full Guild Wars resume, but allow me to say that I have more than a fair bit of experience.

I can recall this know-it-all also telling ( NOT asking) an Ele to replace one skill as it would cause him exhaustion and the one she wanted him to use would not. IT *MAY* have been an excellent suggestion, but I do not want to play with people who behave in this manner I want to use MY builds that have served me well for a long time in many desperate battles.

IF for example you want to ask a Ranger if he has any interrupts, that's fine, you are probably just checking that the Ranger is aware that interrupts are really important in this upcoming mission. However, is it really necessary to pick apart his complete build and demand that the interrupts YOU want are on his skill bar? I say no.

To you know-it-alls: Please be quiet and play your character and allow me to play mine as I see fit.
I am NOT here to please you.
My build works great




This is not meant to be any sort of flame or complaint - I'd really like to hear reasons why these people are so full of themselves that they feel entitled to demand these skill bar changes.


comments??

in their defense, I'm assuming you are talking DOA. For the longest time, until very recently, it was so overpowered that only certain builds really worked. People get so used to these, because they become comfortable with them and can work them well, that any deviation could result in a lot of wasted time and much frustration.

Now we know DOA was nerfed recently, but the conventional wisdom has remained intact.

This is more an exercise in social studies than it is in critiquing builds in GW. I wouldn't take it too hard. DOA was made so narrow-mindedly and stupidly overpowering that it really forced a mentality which persists.

Did you die in that end mission in NF?

They are the same people who watch you play a console game and scream 'Give me the controller, you don't know how to play!'....and get all red faced.

I think they care more about getting stuff done then enjoying doing stuff. They should of bought Guild Wars the job, instead of Guild Wars the game.

Reported for rant thread

^reported for useless post?

Because it is the internet, and people can say whatever the hell they want.

Well.

When you're telling me that Healing Breeze helps you tank, I'm going to disagree. Especially if you're that moron whammo in Urgoz lately, explaining to us how we're idiots for not taking a tank.


By the way, what build and skill was your story in reference to? That would be helpful to know.

While I hate when people do this too, I admit that sometimes I sigh to myself when I see a shitty, incompetent build and suggest changes. Now of course, for a mission like Gate of Madness, I'm going to demand the tank to bring Wild Blow and if he doesn't, I will kick him. Sometimes there are just some skills on people's bars that are utterly useless, sometimes there are skills that are absolutely needed to make a mission go smoothly. Know-it-alls are very annoying, but sometimes changing a skill here or there won't kill you (personally, I mean =])

Before I enter a hard mode mission with a PuG, I have everyone ping builds, including myself. Everyone usually ends up changing a few skills around, both to work better together and to optimize their own builds.

This has a few really awesome effects. First, the only way to really get better is to take feedback from other people. You'll never get better if you don't learn to defend your skill choices. There's only so far you can go on your own, other people will make you a better player.

Second, all the impatient people weed themselves out. They'll get annoyed at the delay (gogogogogogogog wtf) and leave. That's awesome, because they wouldn't have been fun to play with, they probably would have left mid-mission, and they might get the group killed with impatience

Finally, you weed out retards. A player who pings a shitty build and takes criticism on it and tries to make it better is welcome in my teams any day. A jerk who pings a decent build needing minor changes, like a rez will refuse to make changes, saying "This is my BUILD THOUGH DON'T MAKE ME CHANGE RAWR FREEDOM!" really isn't welcome. People like that aren't fun to play with, they're selfish, uncooperative pricks with an ego problem.

I'll grant you that demanding to micromanage every player's build isn't fun, nor is demanding skill changes (Unless it's really, really, really bad. I'm not dragging your retarded deathly swarm spamming warrior through a mission). This post has really dragged on, so I guess lern2communicate and lern2teamplay.

Aye, communication is important. There are few things worse than, after having made multiple attempts to get another Ritualist in the party to discuss their build in order to avoid overlapping spirits, going in and finding that, yes, you are indeed both carrying Pain or some other spirit that is unhelpful in multiples...

Some people don't care what you want to run. They want to win. Many people will do this, you can either change your build or leave the group.

This is why I dont pug. Idiots thinking that they have the only build that works. If youre at the end mission obviously your build worked well enough to get you there. If you dont like that persons build YOU leave the group not them.

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that Guild Wars is a team game.

Be more selective about who is in your alliance... seems like the simplest solution to me.

I am with Bokken on this one. The people who are flaming Bokken are the same 'Know it Alls' he is talking about. You guys should be ashamed of yourselfs. Its a game not a bloody job interview you morzies.

people just want to actually get through the mission on the first try.

Um...well.....It was your alliance, wouldn't you want to oblidge, even just that once...and THEN maybe take the 'know-it-all' to the side and tell him of your discomfort?
(or let the alliance/guild leader know you werent to happy about it?)
_____________________
PvE Helpful Hint #7729: Seige Turtles do not require waxing.

It's a TEAM game, not "I have discovered the holy and mighty unchangeable build". Get over yourself and cooperate with others or play with Stefan.

I just hope you don't ever take that attitude to PVP. In PVP, when i want a specific build, and you are a pug, you better bring the skills I want or = boot.

Also, did everyone ping their bars and you saw EVERYONE's skills? Maybe the leader of the group wanted a specific skill that was a better fit with the team's skillset then whatever you had.

Some alliances, like mine, do many missions together, very very often. There are missions we have done many times, and they are a royal pain the ass, like the last 3 in NF. We ping builds, because we play as a group and we want to make sure we have everything we need.

Gates of Pain: a ranger bringing broadhead arrow has worked wonders, it renders the torturewebs useless. If there is a ranger in the group, asking them to bring that is for me perfectly ok. If the ranger happens not to have it, that's fine. We look for something else.

Gate of Madness: a warrior without wild blow? we would definitely ask for it. You don't have it? here's a tome, or go buy it. A necro with spoil victor is lovely, not a must.

I think there are some areas that call for certain builds, or skills. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask, or in very difficult places, to demand. It makes the mission easy going, and in most cases fail proof.

I consider myself pretty experienced, yet I am always open to suggestions. I feel very comfortable with certain builds, but if my alliance asks me to bring a particular skill/build that I have never used, I will assume they know it works, or works better than what I have, or at least, I'm willing to try it and if needed refute the use of the skill in question after having tried it.

Perhaps there is a fine line between asking and demanding, and it's all a matter of perception.

I have no problem with people making suggestions about my skill bar. They usually will give a fair to good reason for bringing "skill X" instead of "skill Y".

If they don't, I'll look at "skill X" and see what merits it has - if any. If it sucks, then I explain why skill Y is better and why and how I use it.

For the people who insist on people doing things "My way or the highway" - buy a clue. That may be all well and good (to an extent) in the elite mission areas, but it's downright n00bish in the regular PvE places, and I wouldn't want to run with someone who's a know-it-all who doesn't know jack.

Why bring 3 skills that do the job 1 skill can accomplish?

In certain situations some skills are obsolete and utterly useless while others flourish and can efficiently accomplish the goal at hand. Maybe that skill the "know it all" requested you bring was vital to the success of the mission? Or maybe it was just his ignorance in believing that no one is allowed to use their own build? Who knows, but maybe he was right?

Everyone should try to avoid exhaustion its baaaad and so hard to deal with. /sarcasm

Sounds like a control freak imo.

PS Hero/Hench teams are usually Nazi less.

It's just different gaming personalities that are clashing, it happens all the time. If you can't come to some kind of resolution try a different group, and don't take it so personal. Some people just take gaming more seriously than others.

I absolutely despise being told what build/skills to bring and in the days before we could ping the build in chat, I would say ok and then not change a damn thing. But, there has been the rare occasion that I've used a suggested skill to avoid b.s. and found that I liked it a lot. Since pinging, I can't lie about it anymore, so I will give it a try. If I hate it, I'll say so and go back to what I'm comfortable with. No muss no fuss.

Sometimes being in a team means bringing skills that compliment the other players instead of complimenting you.

I agree with OP - I hate it when ppl criticise me (W/MO) for taking mending + healing breeze.
They dont understand thats what a paladin is supposed to do - heal and do massive dmg with powerful skillz like 100 blades.

whenever ppl criticise my choice of Mending + healing breeze I just laugh at them for not having a 14-20 12%hex crystalline sword like mine.

100% QFT

This has nothing to do with cookie-cutter mentality or nazi-style control issues. This is a team game, and your character is there to provide a needed role in the team - be it in a hero/hench, PuG, or Alliance/Guild/Friend team.

If you don't get along with the people in the team, you should find another team. If you don't get along with any team, you should look within yourself for the problem.

this post wins for most sarcasm

agree with above post
Just done gate of madness today with a W/MO who dont have elite and have mending as his live saving skill.
He end up die much more times than a Centure Elementalist with point blank spell.

Sarcasm? Right? Hopefully? Please?


Asking someone to change their build is fine so long as you EXPLAIN why. If they disagree fine. It's their choice. Sometimes you have to make it mandatory to bring a certain skill but usually not. Usually it just depends on what you are comfortable with. Recently I have been trying out builds with my monk. If someone doesn't like it they are welcome to suggest changes just so long as they don't order them.

-_-

Hero more if you want people to stay out of your builds. If you're going to play with other people, other people are going to be playing with you. Everyone has an opinion, deal with it. You can ignore them and say no, or you can comply, or you can reason with them. That's your choice. It was also your choice to play with other people in the first place. If you don't like how pugs operate, get some friends. Guildhop, find one you like. But it's your choice, don't take it out on the people trying to get a decent pug.

A screenshot in the Funny Ingame Screencaps thread showed one of the "ORIGINAL BUILD, I DON'T USE YOUR COOKIE CUTTER SH*T LEAVE MY BUILD ALONE".
He was a monk using several horrible skills in Hell's Precipice while he teammates were telling him to "take out backfire".

I only play with heroes

People should know:

It's the player that makes the skill work, not vice versa.

Just because someone demands you have a certain skill in your bar doesn't make it work. The human factor is most important. So, you need a particular interupt and shutdown mesmer for the mission? So what if you ask the mesmer to bring a certain build, if the person using the skills doesn't know how to use them (when and under what circumstances), the know-it-all still won't get the desired results.

It is important to know eachothers builds before taking a serious jaunt through a mission or HM area, however. Synergizing skills in a group is more important than trying to play solo with 7 others. You may do more harm than good, even with your comfort skills.

Most importantly, stubborness begets stubborness, especially in GW.

Guild Wars is a team game. If you want to do what you want without affecting others, go play Oblivion or Bioshock.

Unfortunately, AnnaCloud9, Guild Wars does not work like that. In an ideal game, everything is perfectly balanced and player skill truly does determine the outcome of every match. This is not an ideal game. Some skills and/or builds are, in fact, better than others. Izzy's working hard to give Guild Wars more variety when it comes to good builds and skills, but we're still quite a ways away from perfect, and the introduction of GW:EN will throw another giant wrench into the scheme of balance.

I will, however, agree with you when you say...

Players without skill or good skills will still lose matches. Players without skill but a good build have as much chance to win as players with skill but a bad build.

You couldn't be more wrong... really.

It seems your saying everyone is an idiot. Its a pug. If its a guild team i'm sure they have some skill to be able to play something decent and we'll win. If its a pug, i want a tried and tested build that i know works very well. That tends to be the reason for wanting cookie cutter. Besides, anyone whose read 'populations' thread on FoW narrowmindedness, while been himself the most stubborn, narrowminded player in the game, basically confirms exactly why people want cookie cutters.

And a build getting you to some point in the game is utter bullshit. I could reach the endgame quite easily playing with some very crap build because NM PvE is now a complete joke. Pretty easy to be carried through missions if the rest of the team is good enough.

If someone provides a suggestion for a situation I am not familiar with, I most likely go through with the change. If he is an ass about it, I leave and find another group. I learned a long time ago to not bother trying to rationalize with the irrational. My advice for the best way to deal with such people is to avoid them. They stir up enough trouble on their own without our having to reciprocate and make things worse. This thread is a good example, considering some of the responses I have read.

On the side, dismissing the argument by saying that Guild Wars is a team game is ridiculous. If there were no heroes or henchmen, that would be true.

If you are playing with Heroes/Henchmen, then no one is criticizing your build! Win-Win.

Remind me to never invite you to a team. The last thing I need when trying to set up a team are people lying about their builds.

"Hey mr. ranger, do you have winter?"
[homer voice] "suuuuuure let me just.. put it in there... theeeeere we go!" *secretly leaves fertile season in*

When I organize teams for a hard mission (I don't organize teams for missions that are doable with heroes and henches), I *will* ask for everyone's builds, and I *will* point it out when someone is running a build that's a flat out liability. Rangers who bring fertile season when we're trying for a time bonus reward, assassins with mending/vigorous spirit/live vicariously/healing hands even though we have 2 monks, dervishes with 100% tanky builds but who refuse to be a "tank", and so on.

Guild Wars is a team game with an infinite number of possibilities for synergies between classes and skills. People making that one solo build they use everywhere and thinking it's always the "best" build in any team situation in any mission shouldn't be joining player teams who are going for that master's reward in hardmode missions.

I have at least one build per mission, 3-4 for some depending on the team situation (do I need to be a tank, a DD, utility, a mix? etc). I'll gladly make a new one if someone asks me to change it into something that would work better for the team. I absolutely hate it when people start going "start" or "go" the second we have 8 team members without even pinging their build.