Reading in the manual for GW:EN that King Adelbern is still, but barely, holding out against the charr invasion i feel like i deserted them and that Rurik was not a great leader but a pessimistic fool
How do we face the families that have lost their loved ones while we were running away from the threat, cowards that we were.
Ok we ran into new threats and we beat them, making entire continents think we are hero's but ........ we should know better.
Suddenly i don't feel like a hero anymore
Shaq_gw
Arkantos
We ended up saving Tyria from the Lich. Saving Tyria > saving Ascalon, which would lead to the Lich and the titans taking over.
Also, I wouldn't say we were cowards. We guided innocent people to safety.
Also, I wouldn't say we were cowards. We guided innocent people to safety.
Shaq_gw
Did we really save tyria?
Kryta is now in a bloody civil war were each party is set to win no matter what the cost.
Ascalon is all but fallen
We cleared sorrows furnace making it possible for a new artifact to be found and the dwarves trying to awaken the great destroyer.
That is not saving my dear, that is making things worse.
Kryta is now in a bloody civil war were each party is set to win no matter what the cost.
Ascalon is all but fallen
We cleared sorrows furnace making it possible for a new artifact to be found and the dwarves trying to awaken the great destroyer.
That is not saving my dear, that is making things worse.
Solar_Takfar
Yea, we were guiding refugees out of a war zone. not every family with women and children and elders would rather stay and fight, you see. Besides, moving said women and children and elders away from the danger zone probably helped the defenders by making them unconcerned with their safety and able to focus on the fighting. Oh, that, and we saved the planet, too. Thrice, it'd seem. And now we get to go back to save Ascalon.
Quote:
Quote:
Kryta is now in a bloody civil war were each party is set to win no matter what the cost.
Ascalon is all but fallen
We cleared sorrows furnace making it possible for a new artifact to be found to awaken the great destroyer.
That is not saving my dear, that is making things worse. Oh come on, this kind of things happen all the time. Can't save a city without destroying a couple dozen buildings, as Godzilla would say. You think things would be worse off if Abaddon had turned the planet into a new torment zone?
Etta
You have to look at the bigger picture. It's not about making thing right, its about making the right thing. Save the mesmer, save Tyria.
Arkantos
Yes, because obviously the fall of a city and a civil war is worse then Tyria being taken over by the Lich and his army of titans.
Shaq_gw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etta
You have to look at the bigger picture. It's not about making thing right, its about making the right thing. Save the mesmer, save Tyria.
About that mesmer, we left her alone for the charr to ravage her house and kill her mother. And now we go back to save her, expecting her to fight on our side.
At least we got a bonus pack mission out of it )
At least we got a bonus pack mission out of it )
Argon Draeth
primary objective in the hells precipice mission: Stop the Lich from destroying the world.
saving the world > than saving ascalon
saving the world > than saving ascalon
Tijger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaq_gw
Reading in the manual for GW:EN that King Adelbern is still, but barely, holding out against the charr invasion i feel like i deserted them and that Rurik was not a great leader but a pessimistic fool
How do we face the families that have lost their loved ones while we were running away from the threat, cowards that we were.
Ok we ran into new threats and we beat them, making entire continents think we are hero's but ........ we should know better. Eh, I think you got it wrong, Rurik left precisely because of what would happen and what has happened according to the manual, that Ascalon was doomed to be pushed back further and further until extinction which is why he left to save what he could save from Ascalonian society and people.
How do we face the families that have lost their loved ones while we were running away from the threat, cowards that we were.
Ok we ran into new threats and we beat them, making entire continents think we are hero's but ........ we should know better. Eh, I think you got it wrong, Rurik left precisely because of what would happen and what has happened according to the manual, that Ascalon was doomed to be pushed back further and further until extinction which is why he left to save what he could save from Ascalonian society and people.
zanntos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaq_gw
Did we really save tyria?
Kryta is now in a bloody civil war were each party is set to win no matter what the cost.
Ascalon is all but fallen
We cleared sorrows furnace making it possible for a new artifact to be found and the dwarves trying to awaken the great destroyer.
That is not saving my dear, that is making things worse. 1) Kryta was already in a civil war before we showed up and we're the only thing hat stopped the place from being controlled by the Unseen. The Shining Blades were ALREADY infiltrated by the Mantle when you show up and without your help saving their leaders they would have been wiped out.
2) Ascalon was already hosed, it was a losing fight already when Rurik and the survivors left. And in the grand scheme of things you're probably the only thing that really saved the place by killing the Charrs Titan gods and in doing so throwing the Charr into social chaos thus giving Ascalon at least a half a chance at holding on.
3) The dwarves getting the book made them put some credibility on the legend of the great dwarf and great destroyer. They aren't trying to wake the Destroyer up, they're trying to build a army to take the thing down.
Kryta is now in a bloody civil war were each party is set to win no matter what the cost.
Ascalon is all but fallen
We cleared sorrows furnace making it possible for a new artifact to be found and the dwarves trying to awaken the great destroyer.
That is not saving my dear, that is making things worse. 1) Kryta was already in a civil war before we showed up and we're the only thing hat stopped the place from being controlled by the Unseen. The Shining Blades were ALREADY infiltrated by the Mantle when you show up and without your help saving their leaders they would have been wiped out.
2) Ascalon was already hosed, it was a losing fight already when Rurik and the survivors left. And in the grand scheme of things you're probably the only thing that really saved the place by killing the Charrs Titan gods and in doing so throwing the Charr into social chaos thus giving Ascalon at least a half a chance at holding on.
3) The dwarves getting the book made them put some credibility on the legend of the great dwarf and great destroyer. They aren't trying to wake the Destroyer up, they're trying to build a army to take the thing down.
Shaq_gw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argon Draeth
primary objective in the hells precipice mission: Stop the Lich from destroying the world.
saving the world > than saving ascalon
True but we didn't know this when we left ascalon.
So looking back we left them because rurik was afraid we could not win against the charr.
And what if it was our actions that spawned all the new threats into the world. Kryta was in perfect peace untill we came there and started the unraveling of the flameseeker prophecies. (see post of x iceman x below)
@Zanntos,
1) The shining blade were only a small resistance movement nothing like a full blown bloody civil war
2) Ascalon was not hosed because even without us Adelbern is still holding out.
3) The stone summit want to awaken the destroyer, with the artefact i posession by the deldrimor they might acquire it somehow and do their thing
saving the world > than saving ascalon
True but we didn't know this when we left ascalon.So looking back we left them because rurik was afraid we could not win against the charr.
And what if it was our actions that spawned all the new threats into the world. Kryta was in perfect peace untill we came there and started the unraveling of the flameseeker prophecies. (see post of x iceman x below)
@Zanntos,
1) The shining blade were only a small resistance movement nothing like a full blown bloody civil war
2) Ascalon was not hosed because even without us Adelbern is still holding out.
3) The stone summit want to awaken the destroyer, with the artefact i posession by the deldrimor they might acquire it somehow and do their thing
X Ice Man X
The world didn't really need saving on Tyria so much untill we came along and helped the Lich free the titans. So really we only undid what we started in the first place in Tyria atleast.
WinterSnowblind
Yes, we abandoned Ascalon to save the rest of Tyria, which I guess could be seen as wrong, but isn't that why we're going back now? I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens to Ascalon, it'll be really neat to see what it's like a few hundred years later in GW2.
draxynnic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaq_gw
1) The shining blade were only a small resistance movement nothing like a full blown bloody civil war
2) Ascalon was not hosed because even without us Adelbern is still holding out.
3) The stone summit want to awaken the destroyer, with the artefact out they might acquire it somehow and do their thing
2) But would we really have made that much of a difference? Try holding back the entire Charr army at the Great Northern Wall in Hard Mode - that's pretty much what you're asking to be required of heroes. That's what an army is for...
Besides, my impression was that Rurik was always intending to regroup, gather allies, and return, until he had a fatal encounter with Dagnar's axe. Essentially, the Ascalonian PCs have been acting as scouts - going to Cantha and Elona, for instance, could be seen as expecting those nations to send help once they've dealt with their own problems. (And who knows, maybe they will. Give those Kurzicks and Luxons another common enemy to fight instead of each other... "You know those nice heroes that killed Shiro? Well, back in their homeland...")
Furthermore, while the cutscene at the end of Nolani is ambiguous, it could be interpreted as the PCs being implicitly banished along with Rurik. Timewarping map travel aside, the players may not have been allowed to return until the Titans showed up.
3) The Tome was in Stone Summit territory to begin with. Without the players, they would have probably won the civil war as well, and nothing would have stopped them from recovering it at their leisure. Now, assuming the Stone Summit is still a threat (what I've seen from GWEN indicates that it isn't), they at least have to fight their way into a heavily-guarded dwarven citadel to get it. (Okay, they've done that once before, but then they had their army caught between us and the Mursaat afterwards.)
With regards to the Lich freeing the Titans - while according to prophecy he needed us to do it, remember that that prophecy was put out by Glint expecting us to kill him afterwards. I personally have a strong suspicion that the Flameseeker Prophecies was actually a subtle trap - without us he would have eventually got them out anyway, but wouldn't have had a battalion of heroes ready to put him down before he got half of Torment through the Door of Komalie.
Shaq_gw
@draxinnic
1) a few chosen every week to keep the peace? In the end we were the real chosen ones. We were the ones who forced the white mantle to show their true face and to start a terror campaign against the ppl. Before that the world was in order and the ppl seemed happy, not knowing any better.
2) I gues we would not have made much of a difference, but we still left them. At the time we did not know we would eventually save the world a few times AND come back to save them too )
3) The first point that makes me feel a little better about what we did, but still very speculatory
The lich NEEDED us for something. Why would he lay out such an elaborate plan of entrapment if he could get the Scepter and te Titans by himself. So not going there might have saved a lot more lives .....
1) a few chosen every week to keep the peace? In the end we were the real chosen ones. We were the ones who forced the white mantle to show their true face and to start a terror campaign against the ppl. Before that the world was in order and the ppl seemed happy, not knowing any better.
2) I gues we would not have made much of a difference, but we still left them. At the time we did not know we would eventually save the world a few times AND come back to save them too )
3) The first point that makes me feel a little better about what we did, but still very speculatory
The lich NEEDED us for something. Why would he lay out such an elaborate plan of entrapment if he could get the Scepter and te Titans by himself. So not going there might have saved a lot more lives .....
crow120
The ends justified our means. I will be interested to see how the king is handling Rurik dying then being a zombie then dying again. Whatever we do, thanks to them announcing GW2, we know that it all comes out right as rain in the end. Some have to fall for the rest to live.
draxynnic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaq_gw
1) a few chosen every week to keep the peace? In the end we were the real chosen ones.
2) I gues we would not have made much of a difference, but we still left them. At the time we did not know we would eventually save the world a few times AND come back to save them too )
New #3) The lich NEEDED us for something. Why would he lay out such an elaborate plan of entrapment if he could get the Scepter and te Titans by himself. So not going there might have saved a lot more lives .....
Besides, Kryta under the White Mantle didn't exactly sound like a utopia. From the GW manual, all the wealth was in the hands of the Mantle (it talks about them having near-palatial accomodations while the regular people live in hovels...) and the testimony-gathering quest gives a strong "one law for the commons, one for the rulers" vibe - first the Ascalonian woman (a foreigner) is the only one willing to point the finger at them, the others either refuse to talk or feed you what must be the party line about the Shining Blade, and finally the Mantle inquisitor takes over the investigation. I'll bet that Ascalonian woman was dead before the PCs reached Druid's Overlook... (Okay, that's more in support of your argument that we aren't heroes, but it shows what the society was like...)
2) We didn't know we'd save the world, but we did know a couple of things - first that we'd been trying for two years without much success. It isn't expressely stated, I know, but I always thought that a large part of leaving was a case of "Well, this isn't working, so let's try and find something that does work." It's not abandonment, it's that the PCs are looking elsewhere for something that will bring victory.
New #3) The point I'm making is... maybe he didn't need us. Maybe he only used us because the Prophecies gave him the idea. Maybe, if he couldn't use us, he would have found some other way to achieve his objectives - raising a huge army of undead out of the remains of Orr and the people of Kryta with the aim of simply drowning the Mursaat under a pile of bodies. We gave him an easier way - but one that lead to his doom. Without us, he may have find his own way that, while harder, wouldn't have led to his destruction at the hands of his discarded tools.
@crow120: Not necassarily - I vaguely remember reading that humanity would be in dire straits in GW2. That might not necassarily be a result of the events in GW1 - two hundred years is a long time - but it is an indication that the existence of GW2 isn't a sign of everything coming out well in the end, just that the world isn't destroyed in the meantime.
glountz
Wha????
Did you finish Prophecies and did you do the Titan quests? Without us, not only Ascalon but Droknar, Kryta and Maguuma would be presently overrun by Titans, the Lich ruling them all.
You saved Ascalon by killing the titans, the only force against Aldebern couldn't win, and letting him taking care of this petty but numerous lvl 8 charrs.
You saved Shiverpeaks from becoming a Nazi dwarf kingdom.
You saved Kryta from being changed into undead's and mursaat garden.
Isn't it enough?
Do you need more?
We didn't leave Aldebern. We saved his people, grew up to be heroes, ascended, then went back in Ascalon to kick Titan's arse, completely screwing Char shamans rule over their race, as Titans were proven not to be gods.
Thanks to us (as you make it happen in the last day dawn quest), Aldebern kept his kingdom.
Sorry, I feel like you insult my three hundreds hours played.
Did you finish Prophecies and did you do the Titan quests? Without us, not only Ascalon but Droknar, Kryta and Maguuma would be presently overrun by Titans, the Lich ruling them all.
You saved Ascalon by killing the titans, the only force against Aldebern couldn't win, and letting him taking care of this petty but numerous lvl 8 charrs.
You saved Shiverpeaks from becoming a Nazi dwarf kingdom.
You saved Kryta from being changed into undead's and mursaat garden.
Isn't it enough?
Do you need more?
We didn't leave Aldebern. We saved his people, grew up to be heroes, ascended, then went back in Ascalon to kick Titan's arse, completely screwing Char shamans rule over their race, as Titans were proven not to be gods.
Thanks to us (as you make it happen in the last day dawn quest), Aldebern kept his kingdom.
Sorry, I feel like you insult my three hundreds hours played.
Sophitia Leafblade
I dont seem to have seen this mentioned above but I must point out we didnt Abandon Ascalon we were Banished from it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolani Academy
Quote:
Prince Rurik: "People of Rin! Your king will lead you to death. If you wish to see better days, if you wish to live, then leave the beasts behind and follow me over the Shiverpeaks. We make for Kryta and a new life, free of the Charr."
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Last Day Dawns
"An old king dons his armor, heavy with time, to fight a battle he cannot win. It is his will alone that keeps Ascalon alive."
Anyone who has read the EotN manual will also see that Adelbern continued his self restoration and ordered the Ascalon (Ebon) Vanguard behind enemy lines to disrupt the Charr.
X Ice Man X
Quote:
Originally Posted by glountz
Thanks to us (as you make it happen in the last day dawn quest), Aldebern kept his kingdom.
Sorry, I feel like you insult my three hundreds hours played. Well I've got over 3 thousand hours played. The Chosen were killed on the blood stone to keep the soul batteries that were containing the titans charged so that they could not escape. We came along and stop all of that happening. There is not way that you can argue that we "saved the world" without accepting that if it wasn't for us it wouldn't need saving. People say the Mursaat are evil yet, you are being lead by the lich. They fight you in defence of thier race, as it was said that the titans would kill all of the Mursaat. Everything that you did that was good and saved the world was only you fixing a problem that you had created in the first place. So yes, glountz might be right you did save Ascalon from those titans in the titans quests. It is a fact though that we did let them out, hence the need to stop them. Solar_Takfar
Nicely put, sophitia.
Nice that we can have an interesting talk about lore, too. Taking a break from the often-whinefesty disputes about game mechanics is always a good thing.
Avatara
I think you guys are forgetting that the Lich's true plan was to set free Abaddon ... Same thing Shiro tried to do by destroying the balance between the worlds... allowing Abaddon to leak into our world.
As you learn in NF... the Lich was one of Abaddon's toys all along.
Free Runner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaq_gw
@Zanntos,
1) The shining blade were only a small resistance movement nothing like a full blown bloody civil war 2) Ascalon was not hosed because even without us Adelbern is still holding out. 3) The stone summit want to awaken the destroyer, with the artefact i posession by the deldrimor they might acquire it somehow and do their thing 1) Kryta was not exactly in a good state when the Mantle ruled it. Undead running around,random murders, the killing of the innocent who were thought to be the chosen... 2) Ascalon would of been completly wiped of life if not for us. Adelbern stood no chance against the Titan Lords and their armies. 3) Every attempt by the Stone Summit at getting the Tome of Rubicon failed. Alkar led a team to take the book from the stone balisca where we hid it and decipered it : The Great Destroyer was coming book or no book. We saved Tyria from what it was heading to. Of course there are places that still need saving but we stopped most of the damage. We saved Cantha from Shiro and after a few years it recovered (Up until the Earthquakes). We stopped Abaddons Nightfall and Elona is fine (Okay Joko is still running around...).
draxynnic
Quote:
Originally Posted by X Ice Man X
Well I've got over 3 thousand hours played.
The Chosen were killed on the blood stone to keep the soul batteries that were containing the titans charged so that they could not escape. We came along and stop all of that happening. There is not way that you can argue that we "saved the world" without accepting that if it wasn't for us it wouldn't need saving. People say the Mursaat are evil yet, you are being lead by the lich. They fight you in defence of thier race, as it was said that the titans would kill all of the Mursaat. Everything that you did that was good and saved the world was only you fixing a problem that you had created in the first place. So yes, glountz might be right you did save Ascalon from those titans in the titans quests. It is a fact though that we did let them out, hence the need to stop them. It's more accurate to say we're being lead by Glint, even if she did let us get used by the Lich in the meantime. You're still making the assumption that if we hadn't been there, there would have been no problem to fix. I think that's a fallacy - if we'd stayed at home the Lich would still be out there, and he'd probably still have the same objectives. Either he'd have found another batch of Chosen to do the job, or he'd have found another way - it would just have delayed the inevitable.
Sophitia Leafblade
Quote:
Originally Posted by X Ice Man X
Well I've got over 3 thousand hours played.
The Chosen were killed on the blood stone to keep the soul batteries that were containing the titans charged so that they could not escape. We came along and stop all of that happening. There is not way that you can argue that we "saved the world" without accepting that if it wasn't for us it wouldn't need saving. People say the Mursaat are evil yet, you are being lead by the lich. They fight you in defence of thier race, as it was said that the titans would kill all of the Mursaat. Everything that you did that was good and saved the world was only you fixing a problem that you had created in the first place. So yes, glountz might be right you did save Ascalon from those titans in the titans quests. It is a fact though that we did let them out, hence the need to stop them. The Mursaat were not working with or for the Lich. Infact they were against him. They controlled the White Mantle Against the Lichs Undead, they also powered the Door of Komalie to keep it closed to stop the Titan which in the end were released and slaughtered alot of them (see the Defend Droknars Forge Quest for example and youll see alot of Mursaat Corpses.) Just because we didnt understand there reasons at the time and so fought against them didnt make the Mursaat Evil. They had only been Powering the Bloodstone Once a year since the Searing (the rise of the White Mantle) so twice. The reasons they did this is because Abaddons Powers were rapidly growing (especially from the results of the Searing and the growth in number of Tainted Souls such as the Orrian ones). He had been straining against the Door to open it, the Mursaat had been desperatly trying to hold the door closed and had resorted to having to use Souls to Prevent the Titans from breaking through. So in Other words they were coming through either way, we just inadvertently gave them a helping hand and then helped set it straight.
GranDeWun
I personally have been working for the Great Destroyer all along. Wiping out Shiro and Abaddon was just clearing out the competition. That's why I killed Glint...
(Where's Gwen? Come here little girl...)
GloryFox
Also keep in mind the Mursaat would not have stopped at Kryta. They already had plans for Ascalon. Remember the Ambassador Zain? Remember the chosen are the decedents of Doric first king of all humans in Tyria.
Quote:
They sealed the stones with Doric's blood (hence the name Bloodstones) and placed him and his dynasty in charge of guarding the stones.
To think it is ok by any means to appease the Murssat by sacrificing a few humans a year is lunacy at best. We did what we had to do when we had to do it. I don't regret my choice to save as many who would follow, regroup then return when the time was right. |
Now the time is right. Rurik did not die in vain but rather bought us time that was needed to survive. Now let us return to the north and enact revenge upon Abbadons misguided followers. We saved Ascalon not once but twice. We saved Kryta not just from the undead but from the Mursaat. We saved Deldramore not just from the Stone Summit but from the Mursaat that invaded it. We saved the Canthan Empire from the Return of Shiro. We saved all of Elona from Nightfall and the Margonite invasion. We killed Abbadon who was full of lies and replaced it with a Being of Truth. We ended the threat of Abbadon's generals in the Domain of Anguish. We were HERO"s then just as we are, will be, the HERO's now. I do not regret my choices as, I did the right thing. Devona, Cynn, Mhenlo, and Aiden were right, it's time to return home for a third time and finnish what we did not start. /ready
R!ghteous Ind!gnation
I feel like its a game.... (gp though)
Sophitia Leafblade
The descendants of Doric failed in their task to defend the Bloodstones (The Only currently know remaining descendants being: King Adelbern, Duke Barradin and possibly Salma). The Mursaat took it upon themselves to Defend Tryia (their homelands) from the Threat of Abaddon. If they really were evil and had plans to conquer the rest of Tryia they would not have protected Kryta and saved all the humans of Tryia (Kryta and Ascalon) who would have fallen before the Armies of the Charr.
Etta
The Mursaats were one of those old-time bad guys with a bit of honor and a bit of morals, which made them almost one of the good guys. Misguilded maybe, but they do what they gotta do y'know. They did what they think was right, none of us was a Saint.
How many of them have we killed? In the end it don't mean nothing.
Darksun
zanntos basically answered all your questions but:
Originally Posted by Shaq_gw
Quote: Kryta is now in a bloody civil war were each party is set to win no matter what the cost. |
Quote: Originally Posted by Shaq_gw Ascalon is all but fallen Tell me something that had not ALREADY happened. Why do you think Rurik wanted to cut his losses and save his people.
Quote:
Kind of hard to defend something that was supposed to remain in a volcano. You forget that Tyrian born characters are also descendants of Doric as well. That means your character "a chosen" could very well be the last human king.|
Originally Posted by Shaq_gw
We cleared sorrows furnace making it possible for a new artifact to be found and the dwarves trying to awaken the great destroyer.
That is not saving my dear, that is making things worse. quite the opposite: "This armageddon can be brought about by reading the Great Destroyer's true name aloud from the Tome, something which the Stone Summit attempted to do six years ago, in the depths of Sorrow's Furnace, before it was retrieved by High Priest Alkar, its secrets safe again." In fact, because the Stone Summit were already looking for Rubikon, you postponed the great Destroyer's coming by fleeing Ascalon & helping the Dwarves.
GloryFox
Quote:
The descendants of Doric failed in their task to defend the Bloodstones
|
Quote:
|
Between the time when the oceans drank the City of Arah, and the rise of the Guild Wars, there was an age undreamed of. And unto this, (insert your character name here), destined to bear the jeweled crown of Doric upon a troubled brow. It is I, his chronicler who alone can tell thee of that saga. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure! [insert Conan theme song] - (you the player) ShadowbaneX
It's a double edged sword. Technically, we, as the players, unleashed all this hell to begin with. We opened the Door of Komalie. Of course we then slammed it shut again, but we opened the doors for the Titans who went a ravagin'. Then we went and whooped the Titans collective ass. Now the Titans were the Charr's gods. With their gods slain, some of the Charr are starting to wake up (our new ranger hero for one) and realise that they're being slightly uncivilized. If more of them start to go this way there might actually be peace between the Charr and Ascalon, rather then one force slaughtering the other.
It's one of those Chinese "Interesting Times" things.
jkyarr
Sorry, but my destiny was a higher calling than to wallow with King Fuzzy Chin in his has-been kingdom of oversized scorpions.
Biscuit to him for running the Char out of his backyard daily, but I fail to see how that compares to the masses of millions my ascended, masterful emninience has saved from certain death. The death of innocents is tragic, but I refuse to shoulder the responsibility of every instance of such deaths like they were mine to prevent. At the close of each day you can review everything that was accomplished and find satisfaction in it or you can crucify yourself and everyone else over everything that we failed to accomplish. The 17 soldiers that were left in all of ascolon at the time I left it have done well to hold out this long, but they certainly could not have done so if I had not played my part and realized the need for others to do more important things than cling to the seared mud puddle that once was home. Shaq_gw
I have seen alot of good points but my point remains, and Sophitia Leafblade confirmed it with the quote from the banishing of rurik, that we were fleeing ascalon to build a new life elsewhere.
//Prince Rurik: "People of Rin! Your king will lead you to death. If you wish to see better days, if you wish to live, then leave the beasts behind and follow me over the Shiverpeaks. We make for Kryta and a new life, free of the Charr."// We chose to follow rurik to "safety", it was him who was banished, not us We could not possibly know then, that we would end up saving the world anyway Saying that adelbern was weak and tired of fighting the charr is proven wrong by the fact he is still holding out and even started to fight a guerilla war behind enemy lines. But all in all, i like what i have unleashed with this thread A good discussion about the lore
OlMurraniKasale
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkyarr
At the close of each day you can review everything that was accomplished and find satisfaction in it or you can crucify yourself and everyone else over everything that we failed to accomplish.
Saving the world? The whole world? How audacious and presumptive! The world is so big, how can one or even eight people save it?!
I can only save myself, from this my honor and morality stem. When the Charr came calling, I attacked them not because of all the extant reasons that popular consensus dictated, but because of my one selfish reason - it was the right thing to do for me. Let me not claim I did or did not save the whole world - I saved only myself. I did the right thing. Even the most vile assassin or most wretched Charr turn-coat decided to do the right thing and that made all the difference. I will have the chance to save myself again very soon. Earthquakes and gasping, grasping chasms both elemental and societal-made appear in our lands. Will I save myself again? Yes is to be honorable and moral, no is to be nothing more terrible than selfish; which I am either way. Concerning myself with this is neither good nor bad - such concerns do not exist.
Hobbs
I don't think that all those "Chosen" in Divinity Coast were really Chosen. I mean the kinda sucked, unlike us who we strong enough to reach Glint and discover our destinies. I reckon the White Mantle and their Eye of Janthir just picked Krytans at random and the Mantle said they were chosen and slaughtered them on the Bloodstone. Perhaps any souls would fill the batteries on the Door of Komalie. Perhaps it wasn't the Mantle and the Mursaat didn't know we were the actual chosen and instead ordered the Mantle to kill a bunch of random krytans they thought could be the chosen. I think the Mantle weren't all that bad really, they just followed their Gods (the Unseen Ones aka Mursaat) and did as they were told.
But the Mursaat weren't all bad either: Quote:
The Unseen Ones stepped in to save Kryta from the Charr invasion when Saul D'Alessio stumbled upon their homeland while lost in a forest during his exile. In exchange, Saul founded the White Mantle and instituted the worship of the Unseen Ones as the religion of the ruling regime and began to call on people to abandon worshipping the Old Gods.
So really the Mursaat just helped the Krytans fend off the Charr and for that the gained the trust and Allegiance of the White Mantle. | But the Charr weren't too bad themselves, they were only following their Gods, the Titans. So really all this conflict was just about religion, much like the conflicts in real life. The Charr, Mantle and Us all worshipped different gods and these gods manipulated us to do their bidding. What I don't understand is why did Vizier Khilbron kill all the Charr that were invading Orr? He controlled the Titans who controlled the Charr so if he didn't want his homeland destroyed he could probably have ordered the Charr to go away. Also in destroying the Charr he destroyed Orr which, if i'm not mistaken was the thing he seeked to proctect from the Charr? All my "facts" were taken from wiki articles so might not be entirely accurate.
Darksun
Quote:
Originally Posted by Togira Ikonaka
What I don't understand is why did Vizier Khilbron kill all the Charr that were invading Orr? He controlled the Titans who controlled the Charr so if he didn't want his homeland destroyed he could probably have ordered the Charr to go away. Also in destroying the Charr he destroyed Orr which, if i'm not mistaken was the thing he seeked to proctect from the Charr?
Whoever was in Orr, and had the Scepter of Orr would not have had time to make it to the ring of fire, go through the monsters there, open the door of Komalie, and get the Titans to Orr (there didn't seem to be a rift to Orr, although they may have been able to make one ) before the Charr invaded. Neither Kingdom, Orr/Kryta felt they were in danger of the Charr.
Operative 14
Quote:
What I don't understand is why did Vizier Khilbron kill all the Charr that were invading Orr? He controlled the Titans who controlled the Charr so if he didn't want his homeland destroyed he could probably have ordered the Charr to go away. Also in destroying the Charr he destroyed Orr which, if i'm not mistaken was the thing he seeked to proctect from the Charr?
I believe that the deal was that he was a good person originally, and was trying to save Orr. But the spell that he used to defeat the Charr army bearing down on him was so powerful it corrupted him, making him power hungry and evil. And it also destroyed Orr which was bad. | As far as the whole conversation goes; I suppose it was a bit cowardly to leave. However, striking out into unknown lands, leading refugess out of a nuked out wasteland and trying to save as many lives as possible is certainly a worthy cuase. I don't really feel bad about abandoning Ascalon becuase what we did as heros was the most logical course of action given the circumstances. Honestly, how many of you looked at the missions and quests in Ascalon and thought "Yeah, I think this is a war Ascalon can win." Really, I can't even figure out where the water was coming from after two years, let alone food. So there's a thought. Perhaps by leading the refugees out of Ascalon, you actually saved it becuase their extremely limited resources weren't as badly streched afterwards? Anyway, everything I would have said is already here. We saved the world at least three times by defeating the Lich, Shiro, and Abbadon. So, by defualt, we also saved Ascalon. While we left Ascalon to face the Charr army on its own, which was a great evil, we kept Ascalon from; 1) Having to face the titans and an undead army lead by the Evil lich, who probably could have used them better stratigically and won with them. While we may have been the cuase of their awakening we also went back and fixed our mistake instead of just running off to some far flung land to wait it out. 2) Being corrupted by Shiro, who surley after defeating the Canthans would have turned his attentions north. 3) Abbadon, who if set free would have made the entire world into the GW version of H-E-Double-Hocky-Sticks.
Dr Strangelove
All good points, but our rampage through all of tyria netted us a ton of plunder. I may not be a hero to the hundreds of white mantle I killed just for the iron in their armor, but I'm sure as heck a hero to myself and my friends now that I'm wealthy.
Just like the crusades or almost all wars in the ancient age, sometimes a war just for the sake of a war is good stuff. Think of yourself like Attila the Hun, heroically pillaging and plundering the whole world, remembered for thousands of years. |
