Skill Cap Change: Annoying - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

mr_groovy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Netherlands

No Inherent Effect [NiE]

28 Aug 2007 at 22:12 - 1

I went skill capping with my paragon today. They changed the way how we cap it.

Old Way

before cap skillbar:[elite skill],skill 1/6, Cap Sig
after cap skillbar: [elite skill],skill 1/6, Empty

New Way

before cap skillbar:[elite skill],skill 1/6, Cap Sig
after cap skillbar: Empty,skill 1/6,[Capped Elite Skill]

It's pretty annoying when you cap a lot elite skills that you have to put back the elite you normally have, and a cap sig. Instead of only the cap sig.

Discuss

*If(post==duplicate){ delete(thread); }

some_dude_91

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

woo

LOD

W/

28 Aug 2007 at 22:17 - 2

i noticed that too!!!!!

i was kinda getting frustrated.. but meh.. 5 seconds longer and I'm set to go again..

but still...
blah. oh well =)

EDIT: spelt 'frustrated' wrong >.<

JeniM

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2007

W/E

28 Aug 2007 at 22:19 - 3

Not done any capping recently but yea that would be relly annoying

Slightly off topic, i noticed that the 3 PvE skills thing is bugged and when i added a 3rd PvE skill it would remove another one if it was replacing one
3 PvE skills in bar
Drag new one ontop of an old one
2 PvE skills and go search for what it kicked

1 up and 2 down

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2007

Rt/

28 Aug 2007 at 22:23 - 4

Yeah I haven't capped in a while but that must be pretty annoying.

tacitus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

scotland home of the brave!

steel phoenix [stp]

28 Aug 2007 at 22:30 - 5

Most people use the skills at the left of the skill bar more often. while the ones at the right are used less often like rez, attunments etc. So most players including myself put sig of capture in no 8 slot. While the elite i was using is someplace like slot 2 or 3.

Under the new system as soon as i go to a town. the elite skill closest to the left stays and the other changes.

Why do this the wrong way round. Even heros use the skills at the left more often than the right this just doesnt make sense.

mr_groovy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Netherlands

No Inherent Effect [NiE]

28 Aug 2007 at 22:50 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacitus

Most people use the skills at the left of the skill bar more often. while the ones at the right are used less often like rez, attunments etc. So most players including myself put sig of capture in no 8 slot. While the elite i was using is someplace like slot 2 or 3.

Under the new system as soon as i go to a town. the elite skill closest to the left stays and the other changes.

Why do this the wrong way round. Even heros use the skills at the left more often than the right this just doesnt make sense.

Dude excuse me but its an EXAMPLE

Current skill bar is:
[skill]Blazing Spear[/skill] [skill]Cruel Spear[/skill] [skill]"Go for the Eyes!"[/skill] [skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill] [skill]"There's Nothing to Fear!"[/skill] [skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill] [skill]Leader's Comfort[/skill] [skill]Signet of Capture[/skill]

After Capping:
[skill]Blazing Spear[/skill] EMPTY [skill]"Go for the Eyes!"[/skill] [skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill] [skill]"There's Nothing to Fear!"[/skill] [skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill] [skill]Leader's Comfort[/skill] Captured Elite

It's not right

VitisVinifera

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

Northern California

HoTR

N/Me

28 Aug 2007 at 23:32 - 7

[sarcasm]

thank got they fixed the bug of having 2 elites at a time even if it's just for that one zone only instead of working on the debacle that is HoM

[/sarcasm]

GODh

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

The Netherlands

BFTW and DLRR

29 Aug 2007 at 00:03 - 8

welcome to bugwars

JeniM

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2007

W/E

29 Aug 2007 at 00:05 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

[sarcasm]

thank got they fixed the bug of having 2 elites at a time even if it's just for that one zone only instead of working on the debacle that is HoM

[/sarcasm]

If it aint broken dont fix it, go fix HoM

As the "bridge" to GW2 was one of the big sales points of GW:EN i thought it was a huge dissapointment

crimsonfilms

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

29 Aug 2007 at 00:27 - 10

Uhm press K and fix it?
That takes 3 seconds.

vikdog

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

29 Aug 2007 at 00:36 - 11

Its always seemed random to me as to which one stays and which one goes. I've often had to re-equip the one I want after capping and going to a new zone. Maybe it always was the left most one that stayed before but I never noticed.

Onarik Amrak

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2007

Astral Revenants

P/W

29 Aug 2007 at 01:02 - 12

It's another one of those inexplicable, "change for change's sake" changes...

Rhedd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

You ever have to clean up after a Moa bird?

True Solunastra [SLA] Profession: Moa Wrangler

29 Aug 2007 at 08:40 - 13

I had no idea they'd fried the ability to have more than one elite due to capturing.

Needless destruction of innocent fun.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

29 Aug 2007 at 08:49 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onarik Amrak

It's another one of those inexplicable, "change for change's sake" changes...

Yes. It looks like someone at anet is really bored and not working hard on other stuff.

Retribution X

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Check behind you again.

N/

29 Aug 2007 at 09:06 - 15

If it's not broke, nerf/fix it till it is!

mr_groovy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Netherlands

No Inherent Effect [NiE]

29 Aug 2007 at 09:20 - 16

Ok maybe i'm not clear enough, because some people mis understand me. You still have 2 elite's in an instance. The problem is there when you get out of one.

Example:

Current skill bar is:
[skill]Blazing Spear[/skill] [skill]Cruel Spear[/skill] [skill]"Go for the Eyes!"[/skill] [skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill] [skill]"There's Nothing to Fear!"[/skill] [skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill] [skill]Leader's Comfort[/skill] [skill]Signet of Capture[/skill]

After Capping:
[skill]Blazing Spear[/skill] [skill]Cruel Spear[/skill] [skill]"Go for the Eyes!"[/skill] [skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill] [skill]"There's Nothing to Fear!"[/skill] [skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill] [skill]Leader's Comfort[/skill] Captured Skill

After Rezoning:
[skill]Blazing Spear[/skill] EMPTY [skill]"Go for the Eyes!"[/skill] [skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill] [skill]"There's Nothing to Fear!"[/skill] [skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill] [skill]Leader's Comfort[/skill] Captured Elite

It's just a minor nuisance. Putting back the Elite you normally use in your build. Then again if you would go skill capping all day for skill hunter / survivor /title it gets to be tedious.

Jebus

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Belgium

Legion of Sacred Light [LSL]

W/

29 Aug 2007 at 09:39 - 17

Solution: Put your cap sig in slot 1.

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

29 Aug 2007 at 09:40 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onarik Amrak

It's another one of those inexplicable, "change for change's sake" changes...

Yes.

As if there would not be other broken things to fix. So let's fix stuff that is not broken and make it worse???

Before, I just had to place a new Cap Signet in the bar. Now I have to place the old Elite and the Cap Signet. Reasons for this change???

They should rather take care of GWEN pets not growing or evolving at all. I have Dire Wolves that did not grow an inch and read dire but still have 480 HP and do no bonus damage at all.

Kahlindra

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

England

Anthems to the Welkin at [Dusk]. 2 man guilds are king.

N/Me

29 Aug 2007 at 09:55 - 19

This is really weird- I capped 15 skills yesterday and witnessed the opposite phenomenon.

I have my elite in 7 and my cap sig in 6- before yesterday the result of this would be that when I went back to town I would keep the new elite but my usual elite in position 7 would become empty. I put this down to the logic that the game was assuming I was prioritising my skills.... it had to take ONE off so it chose the later one.

But yesterday it was removing skill 6, the capped elite, and leaving my normal elite where it should be. So I only had one gap when I zoned, and it was the gap into which I wanted to slot my next skill cap.

Possibly this is because I have a 'skill cap' template, which is my usual bar with 6 replaced by a cap. Yes, I'm VERY lazy. But I did some capping on my partner's comp last night, with no template, and it was STILL doing it the useful 'drop the new one' way.

Seems I am the only person for which this works in a handy way. And I can't experiment because I got Legendary Skill Hunter yesterday, :-)

MoriaOrc

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2007

29 Aug 2007 at 10:06 - 20

To those complaining about this "Change for change's sake:"

Isn't it possible that this was introduced as an unintended side effect of another change related to GW:EN? Like, for example, the change that checks for the 3 PvE skill limit caused part of the 1 Elite skill limit check to be changed, resulting in this.

mr_groovy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Netherlands

No Inherent Effect [NiE]

29 Aug 2007 at 10:16 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahlindra

Seems I am the only person for which this works in a handy way. And I can't experiment because I got Legendary Skill Hunter yesterday, :-)

Try on an other char

generik

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

29 Aug 2007 at 10:16 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeniM

If it aint broken dont fix it, go fix HoM

As the "bridge" to GW2 was one of the big sales points of GW:EN i thought it was a huge dissapointment

You will be even more disappointed if all you get in the preview effect is an awesomely implemented HoM but no new game content.

Get real and just enjoy the game. HoM will not matter for the next two years anyway.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

29 Aug 2007 at 10:30 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

To those complaining about this "Change for change's sake:"

Isn't it possible that this was introduced as an unintended side effect of another change related to GW:EN? Like, for example, the change that checks for the 3 PvE skill limit caused part of the 1 Elite skill limit check to be changed, resulting in this.

They added it on changelog.

If it was just side effect, it implies old "its not a bug, its feature!" excuse. They clearly knew about it and didnt care about fixing it.

Or it was intended change ... that was really unnecesary, and kinda weird thing to do after people capturing elites were used to old system and is recall NO threads complaining about it.

There is really no good way to look at it.

Its good that someone at anet is looking at tiny things and tweaking them, but this one just is not a thing players are happy about.

quickmonty

Ancient Windbreaker

Join Date: May 2005

29 Aug 2007 at 11:20 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onarik Amrak

It's another one of those inexplicable, "change for change's sake" changes...

Are you saying that they are *gasp* DEMOCRATS?

Kahlindra

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

England

Anthems to the Welkin at [Dusk]. 2 man guilds are king.

N/Me

29 Aug 2007 at 11:28 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

Try on an other char

Nuh-uh, that greedy skills guy isn't getting ANY MORE of my money.

I will, later, and see if it's just me.

About 'change' and 'bugs' and whatever... even if it's not a 'bug' per se, it is definitely a changed functionality, and people who use it a lot are going to notice, wonder why, and possibly be annoyed by it. Sometimes undocumented changes really affect things for some people, and understandably they want to know what's going on. They don't have to care about the other broken stuff- if you're on a skillcapping fest and skillcapping gets more irritating... that's going to be a big thing for you.

Guildmaster Cain

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

Guildmistress Eve [Me], Guildmistress Azura [N], Guildmistress Azumi [A], Guildmistress Jaina [D]

Guildmaster Aeron [Rt], Arthas Ironfist [W], Guild: The Tyrian Templars [TTT]

29 Aug 2007 at 11:40 - 26

Lol, maybe I read too fast, but it seems you all are slow learners and dont change your own habits often.

Before the update: When having more then 1 elite skill, the one on the most left was kept. After the update: The skill on the most right is kept.

Why Anet changed this, I do not know. The only thing is I do not mind, since I rather have my Elite to the far right, if its a non spammable skill at least. If spammable, its better to have on 1-4 slots.

Anyway, just change ur elite to the 8th spot and u wont have any problems with it anymore.

U ppl sound like my granny who is very conservative about changes.

bwillcox

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

29 Aug 2007 at 12:13 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

Uhm press K and fix it?
That takes 3 seconds.

Ok if you go into a town or outpost, but what if you simply go through a portal to a new region? Then you are left w/o your preferred elite skill and can't fix it w/o returning to a town or outpost. Very annoying and needs to be fixed.

ValaOfTheFens

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Warrior Nation[WN]

29 Aug 2007 at 12:25 - 28

Hmmmm...that would explain what happened to me the other day. I was getting the treasures in Kourna and decided to cap the Rit elite in Arjok Ward, get the nearby treasure, and then head over to Jahai Bluffs. When I zoned into Jahai Bluffs [skill=text]Barrage[/skill] was gone and [skill=text]Destructive Was Glaive[/skill] was still there.

It didn't matter b/c my slaves...urm heroes and henchies did all the fighting and I still got the treasure.

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

29 Aug 2007 at 13:44 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens

Hmmmm...that would explain what happened to me the other day. I was getting the treasures in Kourna and decided to cap the Rit elite in Arjok Ward, get the nearby treasure, and then head over to Jahai Bluffs. When I zoned into Jahai Bluffs [skill=text]Barrage[/skill] was gone and [skill=text]Destructive Was Glaive[/skill] was still there.

It didn't matter b/c my slaves...urm heroes and henchies did all the fighting and I still got the treasure.

This right here is the main problem. What if you needed that skill that you usually put first on the left side, and you were capping a skill just to get it unlocked that you didn't need..or what if you were doing something crucial and that happenend, like a mission. I think Anet should have at least alerted the players to this change.

EroChrono

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Netherlands

[WitB]

W/

29 Aug 2007 at 13:58 - 30

I finished skills capping the other day, but the last days of capping I also had the same problem.
It's true you can change it back within 3 seconds, or avoid it by changing the order of elite & cap sig, but it is just annoying.
It was fine to begin with, and for some, unknown, mysterious reason they changed it for the worse.

MagmaRed

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2007

Our Crabs Know True [LOVE]

R/

29 Aug 2007 at 14:03 - 31

There is more to this problem than the change of skills when zoning. Signet of Capture is now considered a PvE only skill. This means it is hit by the limit of 3.

I remember skill capping with my Mo/N in Perdition Rock. Took Word of Healing, 6 Cap Sigs, and Rebirth. Left with Word of Healing, Healing Hands, Amity, Martyr, Lingering Curse, Wither, Tainted Flesh, and Rebirth. Can't do that anymore, as you are limited to 3 Cap Sigs max.

Worse, is you can take only 1 Cap Sig if you use skills like Luxon/Kurzick, Sunspear, Norn, Deldrimor, Asura, Ebon, etc.

They need to make to changes.

1) Make the elite removed the NEWEST one added, not based on location in skill bar.
2) Remove Signet of Capture from the list of PvE only skills

Since you cannot capture PvE only skills, there is no reason to include them in the PvE only list. The skills that would replace it when it is used are not restricted in any way, so why restrict the Cap Sig?

Xenex Xclame

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

DPX

R/

29 Aug 2007 at 14:34 - 32

Signet of capture IS a pve only skill, as you can not use it in pvp.
However, they should still make it remove the newest ( possibly useless in your current build) elite skill.

Solas

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ireland

Currently LF Active HA Guild, Glad 2, Comm.3, R2

E/

29 Aug 2007 at 14:47 - 33

if you skill capping ALways put the cap sig BEFORE your current elite,
it gets rid of the FIRST elite in the skillbar form 1-8.

so elite cap slot 4 ,elite slot 8

slot 4 will be removed

btw i've been skill capping elona and cantha last few days, not once have i had that prob because i used the method above.

pity i didnt figure it out when capping tyria

/agree

dont count it as a pve only skill,
whats the worst that will happen? a kcik ass imba build with 3 pve skills and 5 elites caps?
even if that build was any good could only be used the very first time, with all 5 elites in that area.

MoriaOrc

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2007

29 Aug 2007 at 15:17 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

They added it on changelog.

If it was just side effect, it implies old "its not a bug, its feature!" excuse. They clearly knew about it and didnt care about fixing it.

Or it was intended change ... that was really unnecesary, and kinda weird thing to do after people capturing elites were used to old system and is recall NO threads complaining about it.

There is really no good way to look at it.

Its good that someone at anet is looking at tiny things and tweaking them, but this one just is not a thing players are happy about.

I don't see it on the Guildwars.com Update Page, only in the "notes" on the wiki pages, a section I've always taken to be mostly "Unintended Consequences discovered by players" section. Note that it was introduced in the same update (August 23rd) that introduced the 3 PvE skill limit.

I've decided to leave my whole computer-programming rant out, but at least I hope we can agree that these two checks (For number of PvE and Elite skills on the bar) would likely be done at the same time, so adding the PvE check might have been the cause of the change to the way the Elite check works (accidentally, or for some other reason).

If you can accept that that's why the way this works was changed, at least try to consider the possibility that the guy making the change might have either not realized players would even care about this, or even not realized it would be noticeable to players at all.

To others: I'd be surprised if the skill-bar has any concept of the "Newness" of a skill, and adding that change would likely be more trouble then it's worth (Cue cries of "Fix HoM" before we even see the final version...)

R!ghteous Ind!gnation

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

N/

29 Aug 2007 at 15:20 - 35

Change it back... its not like anyone ever really used the 2 elite skills anyway....

bwillcox

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

29 Aug 2007 at 18:16 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach_Ninneed

if you skill capping ALways put the cap sig BEFORE your current elite,
it gets rid of the FIRST elite in the skillbar form 1-8.

so elite cap slot 4 ,elite slot 8

slot 4 will be removed

This is NOT acceptable to me. I arrange my skills in the skill bar based on frequency of use and convenience. The lower numbered ones are the ones I most often use and the fingers of my left hand rest on. Changing this arrangement does not at all interest me. I've spent over two years training my fingers to behave this way. I'm not about to change that.

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

29 Aug 2007 at 18:54 - 37

Before this change you could cap an elite and go to the next area. I did this sometimes, grab an elite on the way to whatever.

Now you have to do dedicated runs when it shreds the originally equipped elite.

Monkness

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

Houston, TX

Green Jello [NOX]

29 Aug 2007 at 19:17 - 38

And this happens after you go into a town right? Just checking, both elites stay on my bar until I zone/map into an outpost.

I was capping last night as well and it seems that it keeps the "first" elite on your bar. Example: Main elite, 6 random skills, cap sig. The newly aquired elite would disappear once going to an outpost. However, if you had Cap sig, main elite, 6 random skills, your main elite spot would go empty...

At least this is what I experienced last night. And as far as I'm aware, it has always been like this..

bobrath

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Texas

Scouts of Tyria

29 Aug 2007 at 19:37 - 39

Yes, the problem is not with the capping causing the other Elite to disappear, but on zoning the behavior has changed. Formerly the right most Elite was removed from your bar - now its the leftmost.

Leftmost skills are the ones (by default) closest to your fingers and thus are the ones most actively used. Obviously, the heros have the same "logic" because they flow from left to right on skills as well.

Seems to me that this was an inadvertent "fix" that got wrapped up in the move to lock down PvE and GWeN skills this past weekend. Lets hope it gets fixed!

(btw, even tho a cap sig is PvE only, it is unfortunate that a build which had 3 PvE only skills would be incapable of capping!!)

lakatz

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

29 Aug 2007 at 20:54 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahlindra

This is really weird- I capped 15 skills yesterday and witnessed the opposite phenomenon.

I have my elite in 7 and my cap sig in 6- before yesterday the result of this would be that when I went back to town I would keep the new elite but my usual elite in position 7 would become empty. I put this down to the logic that the game was assuming I was prioritising my skills.... it had to take ONE off so it chose the later one.

But yesterday it was removing skill 6, the capped elite, and leaving my normal elite where it should be. So I only had one gap when I zoned, and it was the gap into which I wanted to slot my next skill cap.

Possibly this is because I have a 'skill cap' template, which is my usual bar with 6 replaced by a cap. Yes, I'm VERY lazy. But I did some capping on my partner's comp last night, with no template, and it was STILL doing it the useful 'drop the new one' way.

Seems I am the only person for which this works in a handy way. And I can't experiment because I got Legendary Skill Hunter yesterday, :-)

It wasn't set up to 'drop the new one.' It was set up to drop the rightmost one. That's why most of us used slot #8 for our cap sigs... to drop the new Elite when we got to towns/outposts rather than the Elite we had equipped when we left town. Then it was changed to drop the leftmost one. So people had to move their cap sig to slot #1.

You might find this page on Signet of Capture rather informative.