Rant from a new player about other players
Mirage Isnt Emo
You guys probably dont know this, but I am soul weddings brother, so i think i know what im saying when i talk about monks. WoH sucks, glimmer sucks, vanq likes boys <3, and whoever told vanq to learn the game, go die.
Vanquisher
Running quicker and aggroing more stuff to make them keep up would make them better.
arcady
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Originally Posted by 4ssassin
Need energy? Cap Melandru's Resilience in Dragons lair (ranger skill), bring draw conditions, and invest in wilderness survival (up to level 9). Bam! Near infinite energy as long as you have a supply of conditions (which is really most places in the game.)
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The problem with any energy management advice based on 'get this skill or that skill' is that most of those skills aren't available until very far into the game.
Consider what energy management you can do if you have yet to reach even Lion's Arch, Kaineng Center, or Consulate Docks. Not much. Your management is going to depend of slowing things down and using the lower cost skills as best as you can.
arcady
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Originally Posted by Amalek
I used to try this, but I don't quite have the finger reach to use both my mouse and my keypad. I think if you want to use your keyboard to select party members your best bet is to use korean style, but most people have a hard time with just mouse movement.
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If that's a keyboard reference, the Korean keyboard looks identical to the English one, but has Hangul characters printed on the keys next to the Phonetician ones found on English keyboards.
I have my mouse left-handed, so using the numberpad for shortcuts is ideal. Funny I never thought to try this in Guild Wars - it's what I do in WoW.
Sekkira
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Originally Posted by Vanquisher
Running quicker and aggroing more stuff to make them keep up would make them better.
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I've seen so many Eles and Monks ping their energy bar so low and I always ask why they can't keep it up. I've even had some monk turn around to me and try and force me to run Savannah Heat over the dual attunes + Rodgort's spam. I was gaining energy faster than my spells were recharging.
Asplode
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Originally Posted by Vanquisher
http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...cipants-s2.php
then; ctrl+f search for "vanquisher the monk" ??? |
Second of all, lots of good points here, and a couple of things to note: More often than not deaths in pve will be incurred by mistakes in aggro or some catastrophically bad bars rather than energy problems, because as far as I know, GW's PvE is set in very manageable bite-size clumps of monsters that typically do not overwhelm a team of 8 people, players or henchmen.
If you find your team repeatedly wiping, either re-evalute the amount of mobs you're taking on at once, or have everyone ping their bars. In fact, have them show their bars before you go in.
If you notice something -exceptionally- bad, just drop the players in question, because chances are they're dead-set on using their creatively horrible skillset for the amusement factor at the expense of your time and patience, and won't be convinced to bring something more orthodox.
Over time you'll get to notice similar patterns in terms of how monsters patrol and group together, as well as get used to working with heroes and henchmen, especially in lesser-populated missions. My advice is get really used to them because you're likely to resort to them once you realize that random players you run into will typically be horrible and a waste of your time.
Also, as a monk, get used to wanding or ctrl+space'ing your targets, because I've found that your AI teammates refuse to attack things until you do so first for some reason, even as a monk.
arcady
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Originally Posted by Vanquisher
Should Monks say "gg Warriors, thanks for doing damage?" or "WAY TO GO NECROS! SPREAD THOSE HEXES!" or something as well then? That's ridiculous. I'm not going to go and say thanks to someone on an individual basis for doing what their character was made for...
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Even a lot of people who play healers in MMOs feel that way.
I find people in Guild Wars and WoW who play a healing class and then complain that healing is no fun... In City Of Heroes, which I've also tried, the feeling is so pronounced in the community that if you mention you want to play a healer the other people playing classes like 'Defender' will flame you for 'saying the heal word'.
Personally, if you don't enjoy healing, don't do it. Play something else. I can't stand tanking, so I never play warriors / fighters / tanks or whatever the given game calls them. Likewise for just about any other non-caster.
I play healers because I enjoy it. I don't need to be thanked, because I'm just doing the thing I want to do in the game. Now, when I'm in WoW and the tank drops out and my Druid is stuck switching form to Bear and tanking - well then, you better thank me for having to put up with being a tank.
Faer
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Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin
VERY reassuring to see that get mentioned. People don't do this enough, Healing and Prot monks work at their best together, not 2 of each (Yes yes I know ZB monks)
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arcady
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Originally Posted by Asplode
Also, as a monk, get used to wanding or ctrl+space'ing your targets, because I've found that your AI teammates refuse to attack things until you do so first for some reason, even as a monk.
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If I set them to 'attack', some of them will go seek out nearby mobs, and some won't. If I set them to guard, most of them won't, but some, like Acolyte Jin or Olias, will seek out a nearby mob -sometimes- but not always, anyway...
Maybe once I'm around a little longer I'll figure out what's setting them off, sending them even far outside my aggro circle.
The henchman dervish sometimes does it too. Today he ran all the way across my radar to go grab a new mob he liked... even with me setting the flag where I was standing to try to and get him to stay put... So as soon as I got to town, I got rid of him.
Most of the time though, I just 'c' or tab someone on my radar, and then move until my aggro circle just touches them, and my heroes go for it while I shift targets and start putting up the shorter duration protections (the longer ones have been put up beforehand).
(some of the heroes will go for them by just clicking the 'target sign' on their skill bar after I tab to a desired target, allowing me to stay outside the aggro circle - again, it seems to vary by hero -as well as- attack/guard setting).
Sekkira
Your post was detailing a stereotype that rarely applies. I sadface when I don't see the warriors using frenzy. I sadface when I see people opt for warriors because they're 'needed'. I sadface when people like you think anything in specifics is needed for a good team.
Drinky
When i was getting my monk thru Factions to get armor, i found that most ppl that start PUGs are W/Mo's who usally just takes everyone, no mather if they dont get 2 or 3 monks. But since i cba to do everything myself in PvE since i dont really like it, i figured it be easier to just come with them, i knew that i prolly would have problems with healing, but i brought a stable bar, which can keep me healing for very long period of times.
Skills that are very good to be healing for half an hour is:
Zealous Benediction - If you meet the 50% req this skill heals for (with 14 prot), 170 hp for 3 energy.
Signet Of Devotion - This does have a 2 sec cast, but 10 divine it heals for 71, for free.
Gift Of Health - at 10 in healing it heals for 105 for only 5 energy
Reversal Of Fortune - Simply a wonderful spamable skill, nullifies up to 76 dmg, and if the dmg the target takes is lower, he is also healed.
Glyph Of Lesser energy, for 5 energy, you get 15 energy, i tend to use this to pull off a ZB followed by an aegis in mid fight.
Skills that are very good to be healing for half an hour is:
Zealous Benediction - If you meet the 50% req this skill heals for (with 14 prot), 170 hp for 3 energy.
Signet Of Devotion - This does have a 2 sec cast, but 10 divine it heals for 71, for free.
Gift Of Health - at 10 in healing it heals for 105 for only 5 energy
Reversal Of Fortune - Simply a wonderful spamable skill, nullifies up to 76 dmg, and if the dmg the target takes is lower, he is also healed.
Glyph Of Lesser energy, for 5 energy, you get 15 energy, i tend to use this to pull off a ZB followed by an aegis in mid fight.
Sekkira
For healing, Rejuvenation tends to be better than Devotion. It may have a 3s more recharge, but the 1s cast makes it viable to use for healing beyond just energy saving. On top of that, it's tied to Healing Prayers, giving you some flexibility in Divine Favour.
Edit: Actually I usually look at recharge as cycles, including the cast time. The aftercast afaik is the same regardless, so it's redundant. Devotion: 2c, 5r = 7s cycle. Rejuvenation: 1c, 8r = 9s cycle. So in reality, it's really only a 2s advantage on Rejuvenation.
Edit: Actually I usually look at recharge as cycles, including the cast time. The aftercast afaik is the same regardless, so it's redundant. Devotion: 2c, 5r = 7s cycle. Rejuvenation: 1c, 8r = 9s cycle. So in reality, it's really only a 2s advantage on Rejuvenation.
Ensign
There is no such thing as a heal monk or a prot monk in Guild Wars. There is simply monk. You run both. If you're running all heal or all prot you're shit, sorry.
Sekkira
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Originally Posted by Ensign
There is no such thing as a heal monk or a prot monk in Guild Wars. There is simply monk. You run both. If you're running all heal or all prot you're shit, sorry.
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Asplode
Healmonk: LoD
Protmonk: SoD or RC
"Monk" with no reference to heal or prot: ZB in TA
Protmonk: SoD or RC
"Monk" with no reference to heal or prot: ZB in TA
pork soldier
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Originally Posted by TheHaxor
bring energy management
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Yichi
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Originally Posted by Darkobra
Oh that's right. Necromancer's hexes last shorter than 3 seconds. CAST CAST CAST! Not that you should have any reason to be so far away from the monk that it takes that long. In fact, there's so much wrong with that statement, I'll let you learn how to play first. And just so you can't use it against me, my monk has no energy issues at all. But like I said before, it's a team game. Learn to play and Wiki is not your friend.
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quickmonty
I can empathize with OP, as my first character through Prophecies was a monk. One of the things I learned that helps a lot is:
You do NOT have to keep the party at 100% health. Just try to keep them alive.
You do NOT have to keep the party at 100% health. Just try to keep them alive.
Kali Magdalene
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Originally Posted by arcady
I find people in Guild Wars and WoW who play a healing class and then complain that healing is no fun... In City Of Heroes, which I've also tried, the feeling is so pronounced in the community that if you mention you want to play a healer the other people playing classes like 'Defender' will flame you for 'saying the heal word'.
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It's very weird.
haggus71
For all those on their knees in front of Vanquisher at the expense of others....
I think everyone recognizes his achievements. My point was one of courtesy and encouragement. It is very easy to be an asshole when you get to a certain level of achievement. Being helpful and encouraging someone doing a good job does the community as a whole better. Some people gave great suggestions on playing a new monk(e-management, non-repetitive skills, etc.), and all I say is to give 2 seconds of encouragement when they are excelling. If you argue against even saying a word, I don't care what your achievements are. They just make you a prettier, shinier a$$hole.
I think everyone recognizes his achievements. My point was one of courtesy and encouragement. It is very easy to be an asshole when you get to a certain level of achievement. Being helpful and encouraging someone doing a good job does the community as a whole better. Some people gave great suggestions on playing a new monk(e-management, non-repetitive skills, etc.), and all I say is to give 2 seconds of encouragement when they are excelling. If you argue against even saying a word, I don't care what your achievements are. They just make you a prettier, shinier a$$hole.
Vitas
To the OP [Original Poster];
Regardless of how some of the replies may have stung, you have come to one of the right places to learn your craft. There are a lot of really good replies on your thread and I, having monked since I began a year ago, have learned some things as well.
Many of the PVP crowd know the skills inside and out, backward and forward. However, some of them are less than tolerant toward newbies so I wouldn't jump right into PVP or Elite PVE missions immediately.
Read these forums and the guides at the main Guru site as well as at the wikis. [As far as the PVXWiki - I consider cookie cutter builds a starting point, not the final answer for a build.] One of the things that I thought wouldn't really help me that helped me to get motivated to be better was a guide originally posted by Inde, Guru admin:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ing-id1982.php It's not just for wammos
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To the specific points of your post, I've read great replies and would only be repeating them here. Except to say that you will want to study your available skills and tools and adjust if you have a tank who does the 'go,go,go' thing because they find it too difficult or are unable to re-build their adrenaline.
This is a pretty balanced game and you will always find a way to deal with the different types of players . -V
Regardless of how some of the replies may have stung, you have come to one of the right places to learn your craft. There are a lot of really good replies on your thread and I, having monked since I began a year ago, have learned some things as well.
Many of the PVP crowd know the skills inside and out, backward and forward. However, some of them are less than tolerant toward newbies so I wouldn't jump right into PVP or Elite PVE missions immediately.
Read these forums and the guides at the main Guru site as well as at the wikis. [As far as the PVXWiki - I consider cookie cutter builds a starting point, not the final answer for a build.] One of the things that I thought wouldn't really help me that helped me to get motivated to be better was a guide originally posted by Inde, Guru admin:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ing-id1982.php It's not just for wammos
. To the specific points of your post, I've read great replies and would only be repeating them here. Except to say that you will want to study your available skills and tools and adjust if you have a tank who does the 'go,go,go' thing because they find it too difficult or are unable to re-build their adrenaline.
This is a pretty balanced game and you will always find a way to deal with the different types of players
. -V
Vanquisher
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Originally Posted by haggus71
For all those on their knees in front of Vanquisher at the expense of others....
I think everyone recognizes his achievements. My point was one of courtesy and encouragement. It is very easy to be an asshole when you get to a certain level of achievement. Being helpful and encouraging someone doing a good job does the community as a whole better. Some people gave great suggestions on playing a new monk(e-management, non-repetitive skills, etc.), and all I say is to give 2 seconds of encouragement when they are excelling. If you argue against even saying a word, I don't care what your achievements are. They just make you a prettier, shinier a$$hole. |
That said, if someone does waste my time by running a bar full of crap like HH/HB on a Warrior, does no damage, can't maintain aggro, decides to stop and wait for Monks to regen when they don't need to, etc. I'm going to get annoyed. I don't want to have my time wasted by some morons who think they're super awesome and run retarded stuff. I want to finish quicker so I have more time to do things. If a Ranger decides to take no interrupts (this happened once) in Frostmaw, and the whole team gets Bile on them because of it, and one Monk is terrible, so we spend 10 minutes waiting after every mob, wipe at least two times on the first 2 levels, I'm going to get annoyed. It just so happened myself and the other Monk did quit out purely because of that, and the fact the Warrior did take Hands/Breeze. The Ranger was also Ignite/Barrage, by the way.
P.S. My achievements are rubbish. I haven't done anything in this game as I have never actually been to a World Championship and earned money from it.
dragonofinfinity
many classes have dificulty with energy mannagment, its not just monks, my ranger has huge problems even with loads of experties.
my advice would be :
-get a secondary with energy managment, ele and mesmer have skills,
-check your points distribution, this can mess everything up if they are distributed in certain ways,
-yell at people if they run too far ahead of you, if it comes too it, just ignore the adrennaline junkies and heal everyone who waits for you,
-see about diffrent runes and weapons, these can have a big diffrence to energy and regeneration of energy,
-find a good build, not all skills are good, some are utterly useless and a huge energy drain, the right combination can be very effective,
-practice, practice, practice, it takes a while to get used to a character and a set of skills, go out with a group of friends/guildies for henches/heros and get used to using skill and skill combinations and see what works for you,
most of all, dont give up, there is alot of morons in GW, try not to let them spoil it for you.
my advice would be :
-get a secondary with energy managment, ele and mesmer have skills,
-check your points distribution, this can mess everything up if they are distributed in certain ways,
-yell at people if they run too far ahead of you, if it comes too it, just ignore the adrennaline junkies and heal everyone who waits for you,
-see about diffrent runes and weapons, these can have a big diffrence to energy and regeneration of energy,
-find a good build, not all skills are good, some are utterly useless and a huge energy drain, the right combination can be very effective,
-practice, practice, practice, it takes a while to get used to a character and a set of skills, go out with a group of friends/guildies for henches/heros and get used to using skill and skill combinations and see what works for you,
most of all, dont give up, there is alot of morons in GW, try not to let them spoil it for you.
Yue
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Originally Posted by Vanquisher
. If a Ranger decides to take no interrupts (this happened once) in Frostmaw, and the whole team gets Bile on them because of it, and one Monk is terrible, so we spend 10 minutes waiting after every mob, wipe at least two times on the first 2 levels, I'm going to get annoyed. It just so happened myself and the other Monk did quit out purely because of that, and the fact the Warrior did take Hands/Breeze. The Ranger was also Ignite/Barrage, by the way.
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Voltar
I'm not saying that you are doing this but it's a common new monk mistake:
12 healing, 12 protection, 3 divine favor.
A restoration rit is a way better healer than a healing monk with little or no df. Orison of healing heal for something like 70 points with 16 in healing but it heals for like 112 with 16 healing, 13 df.
Also, avoiod spells that cost more than 5 energy. My monk is almost as old as the game and I still use mostly 5e spells.
12 healing, 12 protection, 3 divine favor.
A restoration rit is a way better healer than a healing monk with little or no df. Orison of healing heal for something like 70 points with 16 in healing but it heals for like 112 with 16 healing, 13 df.
Also, avoiod spells that cost more than 5 energy. My monk is almost as old as the game and I still use mostly 5e spells.
Vanquisher
Orison is terrible. 10e skills like Prot Spirit and Spirit Bond are awesome.
Avarre
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Originally Posted by Yue
That team was so baed. First time I RQ a pve group that far in.
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Amalek
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Originally Posted by arcady
Korean style?
If that's a keyboard reference, the Korean keyboard looks identical to the English one, but has Hangul characters printed on the keys next to the Phonetician ones found on English keyboards. I have my mouse left-handed, so using the numberpad for shortcuts is ideal. Funny I never thought to try this in Guild Wars - it's what I do in WoW. |
dragonofinfinity
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Originally Posted by Vanquisher
Orison is terrible. 10e skills like Prot Spirit and Spirit Bond are awesome.
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Tijger
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Originally Posted by arcady
I play healers because I enjoy it. I don't need to be thanked, because I'm just doing the thing I want to do in the game. Now, when I'm in WoW and the tank drops out and my Druid is stuck switching form to Bear and tanking - well then, you better thank me for having to put up with being a tank. |
I dont feel I need to be thanked though, thats just silly, in GW if you play with a human team then everyone has their role and everyone is equally important to the success of the team. I like hearing "hey, that was nice monking" but people who go around asking for special considerations and even money for their monkey I have zero respect for.
SeraCombi
the issue here is not energy management.
Here is a Disclaimer for all would-be Monks:
-->if you are a monk, you will blamed for the failure of your team, and for the death of your teammates, no matter how hard you work, and or how bad they play.<---
monks eventually become angry, snippy players because of this.
Good example: i was playing a monk in AB. Myself and a Sin on my team were by ourselves, and a big group of like 7 enemies came towards us. Intelligent reaction: RUN!..right?
The Sin, however, seeing that he had a monk on his back, ran straight into the group of seven! Knowing that we would both die, I ran. When we got back to base after the match, he booted me.
Here is a Disclaimer for all would-be Monks:
-->if you are a monk, you will blamed for the failure of your team, and for the death of your teammates, no matter how hard you work, and or how bad they play.<---
monks eventually become angry, snippy players because of this.
Good example: i was playing a monk in AB. Myself and a Sin on my team were by ourselves, and a big group of like 7 enemies came towards us. Intelligent reaction: RUN!..right?
The Sin, however, seeing that he had a monk on his back, ran straight into the group of seven! Knowing that we would both die, I ran. When we got back to base after the match, he booted me.
EternalTempest
No matter who good you are, an inexperinced wamo (pve) will still drain a monk dry.
I've seen (and done this myself), if they don't listen to slow down, or respond to low engery ... cut them off, stop healing them and allow them to rage quit or they learn to respect I have 1 of X engery. Don't extend yourself in to aggro because the tank is way out of range either.
This pug behavior has happened to me while I was a monk. I don't play monk anymore.
The end result will be the same a usless dead warrior (by there rushing or "slow" healing them) or raqe quit and leave. No matter what you have an empty slot.
I've seen (and done this myself), if they don't listen to slow down, or respond to low engery ... cut them off, stop healing them and allow them to rage quit or they learn to respect I have 1 of X engery. Don't extend yourself in to aggro because the tank is way out of range either.
This pug behavior has happened to me while I was a monk. I don't play monk anymore.
The end result will be the same a usless dead warrior (by there rushing or "slow" healing them) or raqe quit and leave. No matter what you have an empty slot.
Mirage Isnt Emo
As much as people also want to make it sound like a group wiping is never a monks fault, a lot of times it will be. You run shitty bars that come people give here, you're dead. The second you run 16 healing is the minute that you died.
Malice Black
A group wiping is down to poor communication. Pinging energy, even drawing on the map goes a long way in a pug.
arcady
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Originally Posted by SeraCombi
-->if you are a monk, you will blamed for the failure of your team, and for the death of your teammates, no matter how hard you work, and or how bad they play.<---
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Healers are popular because they are unpopular to play - so most players know what they need from them, but not how it is done.
Second popular thing to blame is the class in any given game that all the 'newbie players' prefer - the class that has the most popularity. So you see a lot of people counter that it was the warrior, or in WoW, that it was the hunter, who caused the wipe.
Achilles Antony
To the OP: You've pretty much described the basic problem every monk in the history of this game has had. No wonder there have been "monk strikes" and many people find monks to be unpleasant. I've had problems with other players while I've monked, which is why I generally don't play my monk in pugs. Either play with people you know, play with heroes/hench, put up with the crap, or try another class. It's a well known fact that monks tend to take all the flak if things go wrong... even if it wasn't your fault and was obviously the fault of a dumb wammo that over-extended himself.
margretli
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Originally Posted by Mirage Isnt Emo
As much as people also want to make it sound like a group wiping is never a monks fault, a lot of times it will be. You run shitty bars that come people give here, you're dead. The second you run 16 healing is the minute that you died.
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Most trouble comes from a team with no killing power. It does not matter how good a monk or rit can heal/protect, or how well a tank can hold aggro. When a team can not kill anything, no one will survive.
Vanquisher
That's a terrible skill bar and suggesting someone else run it is ridiculously stupid.
Mirage Isnt Emo
A simple spirit bond can go a long way, as most things hit for over 60 damage. Sure it is only 10 hits, but that is a hell of a lot of healing compared to spamming orison on the guy, which is only good under healers boon...
arcady
I'm going to hazard a guess that more important than your actual skillbar is knowing how to use the skillbar you choose.
Myself, I'm full on Divine Favor and Protection, with zero in anything else. Works well for me.
My most recent build was:
[card]Reversal of Fortune[/card][card]Aegis[/card][card]Protective Spirit[/card][card]Convert Hexes[/card][card]Rebirth[/card][card]Dismiss Condition[/card][card]Signet of Capture[/card][card]Divine Boon[/card].
Just captured [card]Zealous Benediction[/card] last night though, so I will be replacing Divine Boon with that, and then mixing up the remainder as seems fit. It took quite a while to get far enough in to capture Zealous Benediction, so I had to make do with what was on hand for most of my monk's time.
This guide:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guide...ying_as_a_monk
Has some great advice, and for a newer player, you're just going to have to deal with not having a lot of the choices people will mention. But that guide presents a lot of advice for people who are low on elite skills, and many of the core skills it suggests are out there fairly early on, or at least were for me working a Nightfall monk. I've got second Prophesies monk, and I'll see how well I can tool her up once she gets to post-searing (she's on hold at the moment).
Oh, and contrary to popular belief here, I say go ahead and get a wiki build. But, don't be afraid to start adjusting it. Start with on that claims to do a style that interests you, and then start swapping out the things you find you either don't use or don't see as interesting / effective. Swap in whatever is in your list of known or learnable skills that looks interesting, and in time you find the ones that work for you.
Myself, I'm full on Divine Favor and Protection, with zero in anything else. Works well for me.
My most recent build was:
[card]Reversal of Fortune[/card][card]Aegis[/card][card]Protective Spirit[/card][card]Convert Hexes[/card][card]Rebirth[/card][card]Dismiss Condition[/card][card]Signet of Capture[/card][card]Divine Boon[/card].
Just captured [card]Zealous Benediction[/card] last night though, so I will be replacing Divine Boon with that, and then mixing up the remainder as seems fit. It took quite a while to get far enough in to capture Zealous Benediction, so I had to make do with what was on hand for most of my monk's time.
This guide:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guide...ying_as_a_monk
Has some great advice, and for a newer player, you're just going to have to deal with not having a lot of the choices people will mention. But that guide presents a lot of advice for people who are low on elite skills, and many of the core skills it suggests are out there fairly early on, or at least were for me working a Nightfall monk. I've got second Prophesies monk, and I'll see how well I can tool her up once she gets to post-searing (she's on hold at the moment).
Oh, and contrary to popular belief here, I say go ahead and get a wiki build. But, don't be afraid to start adjusting it. Start with on that claims to do a style that interests you, and then start swapping out the things you find you either don't use or don't see as interesting / effective. Swap in whatever is in your list of known or learnable skills that looks interesting, and in time you find the ones that work for you.