Let Asuran and Norn status effects work outside GWEN!

Wow...personal insults...way to prove yourself and your argument there bud.

Resorting to an insult speaks volumes.

Cheers.

The notion that skill > time in PVE really went out the window when Anet introduced multiple chapters and especially heroes.

I have one PVE character of each profession. I've advanced each character to the point that they have access to all skills in all campaigns (not including EotN). Consequently, I can make nearly any hero build. You think the extremely skilled guy who owns just Prophesies or just Factions can progress through the game as efficiently as I can? Highly doubtful.

Could the uber-skilled guy beat me in PVP? Of course he could - even without acess to all skills. PVP is still balanced - as it should be. If Freek were arguing the Norn & Asura benefits should occur in PVP, I'd say he was nuts. I don't know if I agree with him, but allowing these benefits in PVE is far from crazy.

I'm not arguing for or against this particular proposal, but the PVE skill > time genie left the bottle a long time ago.

The game's more Number of Campaigns Owned > Skill. It's like that so as to create incentive to buy their games.

Aside from that, I'd think ANet would try to keep players in PvE as balanced as possible, regardless of how things are these days - kind of like how we still have only 3 hero slots instead of 7.

Here is the deal.

Asura and Norn title benifits are a BONUS just like a Moral bost. So if you can walk from the Asura areas to any other part of Tyria, say Lornar's Pass, then you can keep your bonus.

Other wise you might as well add a title that grants you a moral bost +1% per rank.

That was the point ive been trying to make!!!! You dont need these pve only skills, and you dont need to use these status effects! Their purely optional and noting is dependant upon their use!

We have countless other skills ingame that do pretty much the same thing without the need for titles!

What? are you suggesting that having +100 health or +15 energy makes a player lvl25? sorry but thats just nonsense!

All ive heard so far is that apparently letting people use an extra 100+ health or +15 energy in going to somehow make them over-powered and make the game alot easier!

But it wont! 100+ health isnt that huge a deal and whether you have it equipped in GWEN to not, you dont even notice any difference. Im currently on +83 health and it doesnt make that huge a difference to me.

The same goes for the +15 energy!

Im really not getting your lvl25 idea!

How exactly is an extra 100+ health or +15 energy going to make a player, (who is already lvl20, max armor, max runes, max weapons, got a huge selection of skills and has experience) any hugely more powerfull?

Its not! You might get an extra 1 or 2 spells off with the extra energy! WoW! You might last 2-3 seconds longer in a fight! wow!!

You could go to a shrine and get a blessing to add +20 armor or +health for 30 minutes instead, does that mean it'l suddenly make the game a walk in the park?

Even if you used these status effects in HM, its not going to make HM and vcanquishing any easier!

And why do most people start trying to get every last pip of energy or health? Because their new to the game and want every thing to be a high as possible!

Then you go and buy a max runes and loose 75 health! You might even use two and loose 150 health! Does loosing that 75-150 health render you useless and make the game suddenly alot harder? No ofcourse not!

So how is adding +100 isnt going to make it so much easier!

I never said you did have to grind for anything. Ive always said that playing through the game and just doing missions and quests is enough to survive on.

Who is forcing you to max the Asura, Norn, Drawf and Vanguard titles? Who is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to max them out?

Does having +15 energy add any huge advantage to GWEN? No!
Does having +100 health add any huge advantage to GWEN? No!
Does having +armor against the char and health boosts give an advantage in GWEN? No!

Ill accept the Drawf status effect has an impact, but even with using that title, the destroyers are NOT hard to fight!

The point being that at no point in GWEN is it impossible to progress if you dont display one race title or another. Its a nice touch and their handy to use if you want extra health, energy, damage or armor! But you dont need them!

The same would be said if they were game wide!

You wouldnt need that extra health or energy to play the game. It would all be do-able with it. No one would be forcing you to use them. If you did come accross a PUG that was dictating to use that title and not accepting you because your rank wasnt high enough, you tell them to grow up and stop trying to be elitist!

The same goes for the pve only skills.

You dont need to use them in any aspect of the game! Nothing is critical up on them. Your not forced to increase ranks to make them more powerfull, because their purely optional to use.

And the same example of a player trying to force you to use them, stands! I accept you will get some players in eltie zones trying to force you to use pve only skills or to use certain titles.

But the point is that you dont need them to do elite zones. How did we manage before all this stuff was added?

Any of the grind that exists in GW is all optional and there is no pressure to do it. Whether it be exploration, farming rare materials or increasing ranks in titles!

Its all optional and doesnt bare any impact on whether you can or cant complete a part of GWs.

But that doesnt mean we should have the choice to use status effects in the entire game. At the minute they have very little impact on GWEN anyway and their rather useless.

Why not give them a purpose and make them useable in the entire game?




Lets throw another comparison into the mix though, since you didnt like the consumables one and the FOW one! As I said above, we can already get health and armor boosts from shrines which add resistance to certain damage, disease, effects and increases in points too!

If you are argueing against adding +100 health or +15 energy because it makes the game easier, then you have to argue not to use blessings at shrines!

When you walk past a shrine while doing a quest, are you forced to get that blessing? are you forced to pick up the extra 20 armor or health, or resistance to disease or the extra pip in energy or fire damage?

Are you pressured into using them or do you just walk on past and ignore it!

I for one, have virtually never used blessings in the 2 years of playing the game because I chose not to, and I can never be bothered to get them! Did that make my game a whole lot harder? did it make it easier those few times I did use blessings? No!!

There are already countless ways to boost health, energy, armor, resistances and pip numbers ingame! But they dont add any huge advantage to gameplay that ive noticed! Ive never failed a quest or mission or elite zone or dungeon because I didnt use a blessing or a status effect!

Its all optional, its all just a choice! Its all just a nice little touch that you can use if you want, or ignore if you want to!

No one forces it up on you!

If the level cap was raised to 25 can you please tell me, aside from attributes, what the difference between a level 20 and a level 25 character would be?

Dude, it's really to the point where it's bashing heads against walls and I'm over it.

Why?

Because it will never happen...ever....for exactly the reasons myself and others have explained and I really can't be bothered repeatedly trying to explain the reasoning why anymore as you obviously struggle with the logic.

Luckily Anet does'nt and as much as I gather you'd like to endlessly rant on about it and come up with these illogical comparisons that won't change the end result in that these bonuses will never be allowed world wide for valid reason.

Personally I think you should just move on and enjoy the game and the titles as they stand.It's all good to discuss such things but this thread has become a broken record.

Take it easy.

Exactly my point from earlier. Each level gives +20hp, so a full Norn title, health-wise, is equivalent to being level 25.

If you want to say that hit points and energy aren't important, let's have a quick trip to the rune trader. What, I wonder, are the most expensive runes and insignia?

Radiant, a fairly common drop is sitting pretty at 650 gold. Of the other profession-independant options, Survivor is sitting at 370. The only comparisons are Knight's and Sentinel's at 310 and 750 (and I've NEVER seen a Sentinel's drop myself, so that could be rarity), Bloodstained at 370 (another uncommon drop that happens to be incredibly useful for minion masters, a cookie cutter build), Nightstalker's at 300 (also uncommon), Windwalker's at 750 (reasonably common but not as much as Radiant, and seen as virtually required for most Dervish builds) and Centurian's at 650 (as Windwalker's, as most paragons nowadays maintain Aggressive Refrain to maintain the condition). Seems a lot of people think +8 energy is important enough to make it one of the most popular - and, hence, expensive - insignias. Furthermore, what is the primary class of the Elementalist? Energy Storage I believe... and I don't see many elementalists who consider energy to be so unimportant that they can skimp on that.

On the runes side... a Rune of Superior Vigor is twelve plat. No other rune even comes close. Seems people think +50hp is kinda important. Next one down is the major vigor at just under three platinum - so it seems that there are enough people who consider those nine hit points to be worth more than a platinum each to maintain the price. Seems hit points are important too.

Under the current system: Contrary to what some previous posters have stated, there is a basis for the titles to be location-specific. One reason is because it involves attuning to some power unique to the area - the animal spirits of the Norn, the background magic of the Asura - that simply aren't present elsewhere. Option number two is that the title is a benefit for doing things that the Norn and Asura approve of - they certainly approve of removing threats in their territory, but they couldn't care less about hunting corsairs in eastern Kourna.

Personally, I kinda like the title effects (if not their requirement to participate in a form of gameplay I don't enjoy in order to progress) as a bit of variety in the areas they are applicable for... but I'd rather not see them change the face of the game in the rest of the world. Even if ANet offered an instant maxing of those titles to all players I'd still object.

On the question of the difference a few points of health and energy makes: If you're spamming Lightning Hammer whenever it recharges with no energy management, it's not going to stop you from running out. It may, however, let you get one more off that takes that boss down before you go down. Extra hit points won't stop a mob of demons from ripping you apart - but if might give the monk an extra few seconds to put a healing spell into you... and then another few seconds to put the next one in... and then another few seconds... and then you find out that that mob is dead. Oh, and the Monk's extra energy makes it that much more likely (s)he'll still have the energy to put those heals in for long enough for the mob to go down.

They may be little things at first glance... but those little things add up, and in a close (or even not-so-close) fight, they may well be the difference between a wipe and not even suffering a casualty.

Really, when you get down to it... if it makes as little difference as you seem to be claiming, why do you care?

Here's a different take on it: There would be less incentive to build up rep for the other factions.

Norn Could work in all snowy terrains (Shiverpeaks) Asuran in all jungle areas (Maguuma, but not Echoval, since it's a forest, not a jungle), the Vanguard already works in Ascalon. And the dwarven only works against destroyers...

Hm...

Dude don't try to apply logic to it because the people arguing against it are the ones sitting on 300-1million gold and are worried that some little bit of nothing will allow someone else to feel as 1337 as them. it is a waste of time to argue so just let it go. if they don't get their way their little cooters will be hurt. so no reason to apply logic because they have none. If there was a title that you could grind to earn extra loot tho their heads would explode so we can only hope. *crosses fingers waiting for leetist heads to explode*

Dunno who you're talking to, since I'm only sitting on R4 Norn and 50k.

Aside from that, this post made me lol.

Oh man. When freekedoutfish understands the ramifications of that true statement, he's going to pop a blood vessel. +100 hitpoints is not equal to vanity armors.

Interesting. Are you comparing gold drops and unique gold/green equipment, which become substantial over time, to the bonuses tied to title tracks? I would hazard to say that the bonus from a green -vs- a normal weapon are not as game-altering as the bonuses from title tracks, for both their level of effect and their equal bonuses to your heroes in the party.

As has been demonstrated in this thread, the extra health can be compared to gaining extra levels. It is apparent to me that ANet is looking to extend the lifespan of the game by forcing users to repeat specific small sections of content, in Macro-like behavior, as opposed to doing new content. Even if you made the case that taking 5-10 characters for all skills through a campaign, say factions, is equivalent to redoing content, it is vastly less constrained than taking those same 5-10 characters through 3 designated Norn zones and clearing them again and again and again.

I'm sorry, but I cannot endorse that kind of game mechanic. I'd call it grind.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Then you qualify. 50k is more than 300, after all...

(Yes, that was beneath me and I know exactly what he meant to say, but I couldn't resist...)

Amusingly, over the course of various threads, us anti-grinders have been called everything from n00bs looking for free handouts (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0201281&page=2, second-last post on that page, and from memory by the fish himself in threads relating to title requirements for armour) to elitists looking out to maintain their own position unwilling to give anything that even looks like a hand up to less experienced players (do I really need to post a link?). I'd think it would be hard to be both at once, but somehow we seem to have managed it...

Myself, I simply see it as the losing battle to preserve the skill over time spent mantra Guild Wars started with and started losing piece by piece since title benefits were first introduced.

Sadly, this is what it's like down here these days. Leave logic at the door as it just makes your head hurt.

(pretty funny though)

Erm no! I dont agree with his belief about the lvl25. Sorry to disapoint!

Ive personally never called anyone a noob because they want the titles unconnected from the pve only skills.

I would never call anyone a noob just because they dont want to increase a title and ranks. What my point has always been, is that people need to stop thinking the reputation ranks are important.

I would call someone a noob who thinks that the PvE only skills are critical to gameplay, or someone who thinks increasing the reputation ranks is critical to gameplay.

The fact is their not!

You dont need the status effects, or the pve only skills, or higher ranks in these titles to do anything ingame. If you think otherwise and your trying to put some kind of priority on them, then your misguided.

Either someone has told you that you "need a higher rank" and you have believed them, or you personally think its their critical for some reason.

But if you choose or choose not to increase those ranks, then fine. Its your choice. But stop thinking that its-the-end-of-the-world if you dont have a high Norn or Asura rank.

It wont make the game any more or less able to be compeleted!

The noobs in my view, are those who try to force and pressure others into increasing these ranks. The people who tell them "you cant join my PUG unless you have rank 10 Drawf" or "you cant join my PUG unless you have a certain pve only skill at this level". Those are the noobs and those are the people ruining the game for others.

That they are different kinds of rewards, that's why in the following paragraph I said I don't agree with "this particular kind" of reward, i.e. becoming numerically stronger beyond level 20.

Any sort of farming can be boiled down to macro-like behaviour. Farming for greens, for example, you go out, run a certain route to the boss then you kill him. Then zone back do it again and again. Eventually you'll be rewarded with a green. Farming for anything else is not much different. It all depends on your own definition of "grind".

Tabasco if you cant endorse grind in any form, then why are you playing an MMO/RPG? Why are you playing GWs which has contained grind from the very start.

You obviously dont mind grind while farming.
You obviously dont mind grinding for greens.
You obviously dont mind grinding missions, quests and dungeons.
You obviously dont mind grinding to max easier titles.

But amazingly, you start complaining about grind when it doesnt suit you and what you want!

Your being a complete hyerpcrit, talking about grind like its a disease which the game suffers from. I assume youve been around from the start like most people, and only now you start complaining.

Please explain to me what the priority is around these pve only skills, and the reputation ranks that is forcing you to grind them?
Is there a bomb in your chest that will explode if you dont max them out in the next 2 months?

This has been said before, but compared to other MMOs. We get a free ride in GWs. The grind in this game isnt critical, compared to other games. Its not like we have to spend 6 hours mining materials to create weapons like other games.

Everything is virtually given to us in GWs, and you want to complain about grind!

i can see where most people are coming from, but didn't gailie herself confirm that EOTN would have extra character development beyond level 20, but wouldn't raise the level cap?

and before someone asks, no, i dont mind if this is implemented or not, it makes no difference to me,

however, the title tracks can hardly be considered 'character development' if they only work in certain areas. Unless Anet plan to add something else in to EOTN in a future update, then these should be allowed to work in other areas, so Anet are living up to the things they said pror to EOTN's release.

Then again, why not add a title that removes max health and energy for those who want a challenge? *cough*

Please, if you don't mind, could you respond to the question.

Not in those precise words, no. But I distinctly remember that you were among the people saying that those people who didn't like having to grind the titles for armour were just too slack to work for their reward.

It's something I consider more of a grey area than the topic of this particular discussion, since a) it's vanity, and b) it can be seen as a variation of the shard/ecto collection for obsidian (although FoW and UW have quests that you can do while you're collecting those materials as well as the option to buy them outright if you get the funds from other sources, which is less so with reputation grind) but I certainly remember comments along the general lines of "It's not that much, if you really thought it was important you'd do the work" in your posts.

Incidentally, on grinding quests, missions and dungeons: If you do it once per character in order to complete the storyline (whether the big storyline or just the sideplot featured in that quest or dungeon) it isn't grind except in the very loosest definition of the term - it's storyline completion. It's when you do the same thing with the same character over and over again that it becomes grind. (As an aside, this is actually one of the things I don't like about things like the Norn blessing skills, the junundu, and the siege devourer - they blur out the difference between characters and make it feel more like a genuine grind as you put multiple characters through.)

So are you saying that achieving rank 5 (on all races) for armor, isnt hard work. That it is achieveable by simply playing the game atleast once with each character! Doing all quests and dungeons and bounty as you explore?

If your saying that, then we agree!

If that is what your saying, then unlocking armor in GWEN cannot be concidered grind because its achieved by simply doing the game once!

Grind is something that you do outside of the storyline, and requires time away from the normal flaw of the game!

I accept going above rank 5 is grind by that definition. Which is when it comes into this debate about making the status effects gamewide.

How ever because those status effects and the GWEN pve only skills are not critical to any aspect of the game. Their not required to complete any quests, dungeons, missions or elite zones. Then they are optional!

That does then lead to the conclusion that if a person is complaining about grinding past rank 5 reputation, they are either...

1) Lazey!
2) See some importance to these ranks that doesnt exist!
3) Are being pressured into increasing rank by another player or group of players.
4) Are simply wanting them to get KOABD and similar ranks!

...so again they are optional! Just as most grind in this game is! People only complain about certain grinds because they either want the end result now and dont want to work for it, or they place some importance on it.

Usually importance that either doesnt exist, or doesnt have any critical baring on the game. But they feel its that important to kick a fuss up. All because they want a maxed out pve only skill or maxed out status effect that isnt critical or important at all.

We have more then enough skills ingame that can do similar stuff to the pve only skills, but their just a little weeker! But people want the oober versions and complain about it.

But this debate is about the status effects being game wide, and im trying to say that 100+health or +15energy isnt going to make the game that much easier.

I've had countless times ive used blessigns that gave me +health, +armor and other effects and ive not noticed any staggering improvement. It makes a difference if your on -#dp and need the boost.

But if your full health anyway, you dont notice!

Grind is fine as long as you don't get any benefit from it. You get a benefit from grinding in GW:EN - That's the problem. Not that the grind exists, but that you can actually be stronger - no matter how much - than someone else simply by C+Spacing in an area.

Then we don't.

Because I didn't say that. Because it darn well isn't... from my experience, even for the Asura without some area-clearing grind to boot. I was just saying that there is a better argument for the armour grind due to precedents - but even then, the armour grind is bad due to the lack of alternative means to get it that don't involve grinding.

It's certainly not as bad as grinding higher for title benefits as doing all the quests gets you close, so it can probably be fixed by adding new quests rather than removing the requirement. Which, in that particular discussion, was what I was asking for all along.

Exactly.

I dispute the cut-off point, but certainly rank 4 appears to be doable.

And there we go. You ARE saying people who don't like the grind are lazy and want an immediate handout. A term which is usually applied to people who aren't doing enough work - I play the game to have fun, not to do work.

And if you're on full health, you don't notice having 100 less hit points for only being level 15 either.

If hit points don't make that much difference, can we presume that you'd be happy to walk around as an Elementalist with a superior (non-Vigor) rune in each slot, without using Protective Spirit? After all, if you're at full health anyway, you're not going to notice the downside that you're only sitting at 105 hit points, are you?

That's a strawman argument, and deliberately so, but it illustrates the general point. Your fallacy is that you're only looking at the situation where a resource isn't being used. If you're not getting hurt at all, or if you're regenerating health before you can take further damage, it really doesn't matter what your hit points are. That's the whole point behind builds such as the 55 monk. In short, you're right: It doesn't matter how much of a particular resource you have if you're not using that resource, and if you're not getting hurt, you're not using your hit points.

In a close battle, though, when you're repeatedly being knocked down to double-digit hit points before being healed back from the brink... well, then you definitely notice an extra few hit points. In that case, an extra 100 hit points may well be the difference between continuing swinging and taking a dirt nap.

A similar argument can be made for energy. It doesn't matter how deep your energy well is when you're just skimming off the top. When you're plunging right down into the bottom of that proverbial well, however, when you're squeezing every single point for everything it can give while the enemy is hitting you repeatedly with energy denial skills, then you'd better bet that the depth of the well matters!

It's not when your totals are high that it matters. If your totals are staying high, you're probably pretty comfortably winning anyway (or, in the case of Energy, being limited by recharge rather than Energy). It's when your totals are low, when that perfect Fortitude mod is the difference between getting healed from being on 15 hit points and taking a dirt nap, that it matters.

To finish, I'd like to repeat a question I asked earlier. If it really makes such a little difference as you are trying to claim, why do you even care? From my viewpoint, it looks like my side is arguing for something that we believe matters, while you're arguing for something that you think doesn't matter at all! If that's the case, why do you even bother?


---------ADDENDUM---------

After some thought, I think this pretty much summarises what I'm really afraid of happening. I don't think anyone has seriously suggested proceeding to Step 2, but I would bet triple digits in American dollars that someone, if not necassarily anyone who has posted to this thread, would demand going to Step 2 if Step 1 is implemented. And so on, until the point where it becomes obvious to all that what these titles are is basically a backdoor method of levelling beyond level 20.

They even said it: "Character development beyond level 20." Should have rang alarm bells back then. Personally, I think I'd prefer an honest level grind; experience doesn't care what you do to get it as long as you do something, it doesn't require you to play in a specific manner to collect, instead you can just do whatever it is you enjoy doing and advance that way.

A cynic might even come to the conclusion that that's the whole point - that after putting up with title grind, a return to conventional level grind will come as a relief by the time Guild Wars 2 comes out.

If you would not notice it, they why ask for it to be spread beyond its current limits?

It was a bonus given to us when we play in these limited areas. It was meant as an incentive to those that do not want/need or care for the armor/weapons to raise our ranks in these titles. As the benifit was limited to the zones, so was the length of time we would be in those same zones completing the storyline and extra quests. Those that wish to repeat the repeatable quests can still level up the title and gain some benifit from it, those that do not can move on.

As for linking the pve skill to the titles, that is a totaly diffent topic than this thread is trying to address.

Then play the game to have fun! I know I do!! Thats my point! No one is forcing you to grind these titles past rank 5. And rank 5 is easy to reach on all races just by doing the quest and dungeons. Id be worried if you werent rank 4 or close after doing most of them!

I had rank 5 on all within 2 weeks, and 95% from the quests and dungeons and bounties!

You then choos to above rank 5, which requires earning points outside of the storyline. Which I admit does require mind-numbing farming! I know because im on rank 8 Drawf and Norn and it isnt fun.

But thats because I chose to increase them past rank 5! It may make kiling destroyers easier and give me a slight health boost, but it doesnt mean im better then anyone or got a huge advantage.

It was just a choice. I dont even use the status effects or pve only skills that much, if at all!

You can play this game how ever you like. But if you choose to grind, its your choice. No one forces you to do stuff beyond what you can achieve by just playing the game.

Funny enough................

I do not farm.
I do not farm for greens.
I do not re-play missions/quests/dungeons unless I am helping someone else.
I do not max titles.
I do not, sam I am.

I play the game. You totally misunderstand me.

I have enough friends that I play the game as and when I want, and I do not run out of things to do. I have not completed every campaign with every character yet, either.

No my friend, it is you who have run out of things to do and not beg for ANet to give you the grind again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

So, then, for the sake of argument I assume you think we all should get free Sup Vigor Runes?

After all, those with money to burn and/ or time to farm will have these and be at an advantage over those that don't.
I'm such a cynic. There's no doubt in my mind this is exactly what Anet wants. I realized this when the Kurzick / Luxon skills were introduced...

I'm not in favor of Grind = better skills / abilities. But that cat is already out of the bag. If Anet is going to make characters better the more they grind, then why not go all the way and allow those that choose to grind GWEN titles carry those benefits across continents? After all, we're complaining about +100 health, but that's nothing compared to plus +100 armor, is it? http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/%22Save_Yourselves%21%22

And if Vanguard title already carries beyond GWEN, then why not Norn or Asura?

And in all honesty, this title shouldn't even work outside of Eye of the North.

Right, but do people complain that it does?

What's wrong with giving people +100 health or more energy?

Like I said, unless all the people arguing against this want to hand out free Sup Vigor runes, I really don't see where you stand.

My stance on this has remained the same throughout the entire discussion. That is that they were created and made to effect one small area of the game where those bonuses are effected. The destroyers, or Norn, or Asura are not available in any other campaign or anywhere else other than EotN, so fundamentally what purpose do they have outside of these areas? The only one where you see even the most remote inkling of anything outside of EotN, is the Vanguard title track, which as you and I agree, shouldn't even work outside of EotN.

And no you don't need to hand out sup vigor runes to everyone. The game progressed just fine in the 2 years before these titles were introduced. If we go by your logic, than they should have handed them out at the beginning when you create a new character.

Crom has already firmly hit the nail on the head (once again, I'll add. He's damn good). It'll cause less incentive to continue grinding for the other titles. You could just level up your Norn title and boo-bam. Why grind for the others when you already have +100 health?

In all seriousness I am happy for you. Im glad you dont do those things, because alot of those I dont enjoy either!

But that begs the question, which ive asked before. What is the huge priority on increasing these ranks in GWEN?

Ive said before that the status effects arent critical to the game, and the pve only skills arent critical to the game. You only need rank 5 for armor and alike!

I cant graps why yourself and others are putting so much importance on them, like having your pve only skills maxed out will make you all gods or something!

I realise its hypercritcal to say that, because im asking for the status effects to go game wide. But im not asking for that to give huge advantages or because its critical.

Im asksing for it, as just a choice if we want to use them.

But if your not a hardcore player, and you dont do all that farming rubbish, then why do you need these titles maxed?

People are increasing ranks in these because they arent that relatively hard to get a vast amount of points in and will provide 4 title tracks in a KOABD title track, as well as providing the maximum efficiency in the skills and title bonus effects.

Um, I am not going to max the titles.

I like GW implementing "grind for vanities".
I object to GW implementing "grind for in-game power and rewards".

I am torn, honestly. I'd like to have the 53 HP everywhere I go, of course. But I also know that grind for in-game benefit is bad, and is completely against what GW was founded on - I can go cut and paste the quote from guildwars.com, but you have read it before. Go read the whole page description of Prophecies at guildwars.com, really. I'll wait.

See? I waited. ( skill > time spent ) =/= grind

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Question to the general public here:

If it were only applied in Hard Mode, would that make it more acceptable?

I can see both sides of this argument. While I would like the extra advantage of both health and power I don't like the idea that simply because I do something over and over that I have an extra advantage over someone else that doesn't like doing that.

The main reason I bought GW was it wasn't based on how high I achieved in certain areas to be equal with anyone else. Most MMOs require you to have the best weapons, armor, spells, attributes, etc all of which take a long time to achieve (time spent). GW basically gives you all that when you reach level 20. No matter how much extra you do you won't get any better in those areas. Everything else is vanity and doesn't effect anything else.

That all seems to be changing now. It looks like GW2 is heading down the road that time spent will be greater than skill, and thats really sad. I can have that in 20 other different MMOs right now.

I have to agree with the /not signed crowd on this one and I actually think it should go a step futher that ALL skills or other benefits from specific title tracks should be removed. None of the core, campaign, or elite skills are tied to how high you have a certain title. The skills tied to Lightbringer, Sunspear, Luxon, Kurzak, Asura, Dwarf, and Vanguard should be set to one level of effect, obtainable from xp earned by normal quest and mission completion, and usable only in the areas they were originally obtained from. That would make them equal for all in those areas and no matter how many times you repeat those areas you don't get any stonger from that.

And to finally answer the above quote, no I don't think it really makes a difference if you limit it to hard mode only or not. I think its wrong either way.

And as a final note, Fish if you really don't believe that they would matter that much then why are you arguing so hard about them? Just an observation.

/signed And of note the Ebon Battle Standard of Courage is of great help vanquishing the Charr areas.

Thats a catch 22.

This is Hard Mode....but we also give you +100 health and +15 energy.

Would'nt that make it medium mode?

Thats what GWEN is and will be anyway!

We already have hard-mode level creatures in GWEN and we can already equip the +100 health or +15 energy in GWEN.

So does that make GWEN hard mode or normal mode? Does the extra health and energy in some areas of GWEN counter-act the higher level creatures and remove the difficulty?

I personally dont think it makes a difference and you always have the choice to not use the extra health and energy to make it harder!

But what about when HM is added into GWEN! Will the extra health and energ become a priority because GWEN will suddenly become oober hard?

Who knows!

I cant see HM in GWEN being any harder, because they have already improved the AI in GWEN and given us lvl22-28 creatures!

I find it hard to understand how HM will work in GWEN, other then giving bounties past lvl8.

But your right to argue that the extra health and energy counter-acts the harder creatures, but again its choice to use that advantage.

If you want a harder game, done use them. If you want an easier game, then do! Its all about playing how you want to, and thats why I dont see an issue with having the status effects game wide.

How you choose to play has no baring on someone next to you in PvE! Even in a pug it just means the monks might not need to heal you as often. But it doesnt mean the rest of the team is disadvantaged in anyway.

Well, it wouldn't give you +100 and +15, just one or the other depending on which title you have selected. Also of course, the plus 100 and plus 15 aren't automatic as they both require max ranks in those titles. It would still be Hard Mode, you just have a buffer that allows you to die a couple of seconds later and able to cast a couple of more spells before hitting 0 energy. At best it would be like having half a birthday cupcake, either you get the plus energy or you use the extra health.