Let Asuran and Norn status effects work outside GWEN!

And your point is?

There are lots of assets in campaigns that arent available in other campaigns;

Normal skills,
Elite skills,
Heroes,
Armor,
Weapons,
Consumables,
Insignias!

Should we not be able to use factions normal and elite skills in Nightfall, just incase one person doesnt own factions?

Should we not allow people to use NF heroes in factions or prophercies just incase one person doesnt own NF?

Should we not allow people to use consumables in factions, nightfall or prophercies just incase one person doesnt have either?

There are also titles that cant be earned unless you have all 3 like legendary cartog, skill hunting and guardian!

Should we not allow people to earn them just incase one person doesnt have all 3?

Its called marketting!

Buy GWEN and/or all the campaigns if you want access to everything!

Ok whats your point of view then. That these will somehow magically turn a bad player into a mediocre player you can pug with? Ok let's look at the average person that has a r5 asura title, they are getting another 10 energy. Thats basically 2 more casts on a bar he either 1. shouldn't be using due to bad skill selection or very sub-optimal for the area they are trying to deal with, or 2. probably isn't running to max their own efficiency in the first place, otherwise you wouldn't need the extra 10 energy. The extra health isn't going to save the guy running 2 sups on his fire ele and wants to use Star Burst in the front lines anyway, no matter if your monk has the extra 10 energy or not.

So again I ask, whats the point of having these titles in any more than whats being used for them already? Your supposed side has all said one thing basically. thats this: "Hi. I'm mediocre at best and still having trouble dealing with the PvE gameplay. I need something more easier so I don't really have to do anything but just push 1 button and sit back and reap the rewards." You have given no real reasons as to why this should be allowed into any other aspect of the game, yet try to jump someones ass when they bring up reasons as to WHY it shouldnt be allowed or is just plain rediculous as to why youre asking for it.
Ok let's deduct thest down to what they are.
Your normal skills will have 90% of them copied into an alternate version of them with the new skills from the different campaigns, and core skills are available to anyone who onws 1 on the campaigns. This argument is basically irrelevant with the exception of PvP.

Heroes you must buy nightfall. Heroes = customizable henchman, but each and every campaign is easily doable with hench only. Prophecies and factions both didn't have heroes and still worked just fine.

Armor, weapons, and insignias = irrelevant. The skin of an armor or weapon does not make one any better than the other. Each has a max level and max attributes assigned to them. Your point is void. The same insignias can now be bought at ANY rune trader and can be fitted on Any armor that will accept them through any campaign. Point void. The only campaigns where you cannot have inscribable weapons available to everyone is Factions and nightfall. The basic weapon mods that anyone will want can be found on all non-inscribable weapons or bought for cheap enough, or found on green items. point somewhat vaild ill give u that.

Consumables have been around since the first event function. Everyone has had opportunities at candycanes, clovers, eggs, etc. at some point. point void.

So it boils down to you have 1/2 a point in all of your argument that you so endlessly rambled on about. try harder.

You keep going here to this point. I recall being in other threads with you about grind, and title based advantages, and in those, you used that argument for the exact opposite reason - because we as players are not in competition in PvE and advantages you earn from grind/whatever/lucky drops/work/etc are what you earned and does not affect gameplay of the noobs who cannot compete PvE, so do not try and take away your grind-based entitlement super skills/bonuses

Forget it. Bonuses given to players do not affect you. You are not in competition in PvE, by your own words written by you.

Give it up - even if they are noobs who need the help, I find it easy to reconcile with your past behavior and posts that you would not lift a finger to help them in the slightest, even though you are perfectly content to use the same argument to defend your grind-based entitlements even though, as you say, you are not in competition in PvE with them.

Stop being so cheap - everybody getting a tormented axe will not make the milk in your real fridge vanish. It'll still be there.

If this post seems harsh to you, then good. It is irresponsible to flip flop on argument tactics when it suits your interests.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

No, what is pathetic is a grinder that believes he needs to be all powerful in order to show off or decide who can play.

Grind for your titles. Take the skills out of the grind. If you want them in other areas, find, let everyone have them without grinding them.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

I don't mind if they are in other areas. There's already a mechanism to turn them off for people that don't believe in them/don't want them. It's not PvP so one person getting loot or finishing a mission with the titles isn't going to prevent someone not using them from getting loot/finishing a mission.

Also, I disagree about the dungeons if the skills aren't allowed outside their campaigns. The dungeons just happen to be under the norn/asura/char lands, but they are clearly in the domain of the dwarves (hences Beacons instead of humanoid bounty givers).

Besides, if allowing the pve skills in other areas would imbalance the play there then allowing them in the dungeons would probably imbalance them as well since they weren't created with that in mind. If you mean imbalance players against other players in pve, please just... well, nevermind.

1. I've been the same person throughout the entire time I've ever posted on these forums.
2. Other players can grind/earn/buy/farm/etc. for whatever they like, It will never effect how I choose to play the game.
3. I could honestly care less what others have and I may or may not. I have the items and things I need to be able to play the game to the level that I choose to play it on.
4. Others titles/bonuses/etc. no not effect me, so therefore I could care less what rank in title you are or are not.
5. You obviously have never read any constructive post I have ever made. Any post I have made has either given advice, Game mechanics, or I have even personally given my ign and had said to anyone who wanted or needed help with anything or just wanted to make other friends ingame to have a real person to run around in game with to pm me and I would reply or accompany anyone as long as I wasn't currently occupied. During the Duncan farming, I pugged a lot actually, usually doing around 5 runs a day when friends weren't on or I wasnt GvG'ing with the guild. Guess reading comprehension does fail you.

The point I made and have brought up is the fact of several things. 1. This isn't needed in any part of the game except for the destroyer areas. 2. The titles are area based. There are no other areas linked with any of these titles other than the ones allotted for it. 3. These titles will not help any player having trouble in the game. If your entire party is wiping and extra 60 health (for example) will not help your team survive if your average monster can deal out more damage than you can protect against or heal for. The extra 10 energy isn't going to make or break a bad pug monk from being horrible and not learning why they are running out of energy or why their skill selection/bar is incredibly inefficient. The asuran/norn/vanguard/and dwarven titles were put into the game for specific areas with specific purposes, and the only one that even matters among those is the dwarven title simply for the extra damage against destroyers. If there are no other areas throughout the game that are considered occupied and controlled by the asurans, norn, or ebon vanguard, then where else in the game would these skill serve a purpose? When this question is answered with a serious response other than "well some of us might like it" than ill accept your argument. Until a reasonable counterpoint is made, you have no real argument other than "well I might like it." thus serving your own personal interest rather than the state of the game youre playing involving the entire community.

Am I the only one that sees a difference between an objection to the stated argument for making the 4 GW:EN titular track skill bonuses available across all campaigns:

and:

If you do not have an objection to what others have or do not have, then what is your objection to the "mediocre players" you are quick to sneer at getting a benefit?

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Lol, nope, you're not.

If you've beaten any of the campaigns, then this is unnecessary. If you've been unable to beat ANY of the campaigns, then, jeez, what are you reading this for? Go learn how to play the game.

I feel the urge to point out a fallacy here...

Some people have been calling for titles to be 'maxed' to be portable. Since that isn't currently possible, let's say 'maxing' = R8.

Now, consider the Norn. Let's say, for the sake of not having that argument again, that completing all the Norn quests and dungeons will get you up to R5. In order to max the title, you then have to grind - or, if you prefer, repeatedly clear the same area. I've heard it cited that clearing Drakkar Lake nets you 4000 points on average. And from my experience, if you don't get a platinum or two out of clearing an area, you've been incredibly unlucky on drops. To get from R5 to R8 requires 80000-26000=54000 points. That's about 13-14 runs - which, assuming 1.5k/run and no 'paydirt' drops, is going to be netting you about 20K - maybe not enough to buy you a set of elite armour, but it will certainly fund a decent supply of consumables if you go that way. And if you're doing that with multiple titles and characters, it's going to put you well on the way towards, if not being uber-rich, then at least decently wealthy.

In short: If you're grin*ahem*killing lots of monsters, you should be accruing a decent amount of wealth on the way. Maybe not as much as through a dedicated farming grind, but you should be getting something.

Personally, as may have been observed in other threads, I'm one of the people who really liked the skill-over-time-spent mantra that ANet seems to have abandoned, and while titles and PvE skills are bad enough now, I'd certainly consider making titles applicable in more areas as yet another nail in that coffin. Consumables, at least, have the advantage that they can be picked up at a title rank that doesn't require gr*cough*repeated clearing of areas using funds accrued from normal play, and since most if not all GWEN consumables affect the entire party, you only need one person to be carrying a couple to be used when bad stuff happens rather than making posession of them a condition for entry.

Oh, and for the record: I have a W/E who's almost two years old and has never found energy to be an insurmountable problem - you just need to be conservative in what you use energy for (using mainly adrenal skills for the warrior side helps a lot). There have even been times - when running a build using Elementalist skills - when I've thought even the extra energy from her Radiant set was redundant. The low energy recharge is more of a handicap than the max energy - a higher max energy isn't going to help much if you're using it faster than you get it back, unless that higher energy a) gives you a chance to finish off your combo with a skill that'll get you some of your energy back or b) allows you to fire off a bunch of high-recharge skills that give plenty of time for energy to rebuild while they recharge.

PS On another side, the only title I'd seriously consider petitioning for a more widespread use for is Lightbringer, and that's purely for in-game consistency: Why is an Apocalypse Titan affected, for example, while a Burning Titan isn't? Or a Tortureweb compared to a Terrorweb? Torment Demons in the Nightfall versus Torment Demons in Halls? However, I think Coraline below has hit the proverbial nail on why they didn't make LB, and other titles apart from Vanguard in HM Ascalon, work in previous chapters.

I posted a reply which was based on logic rather than emotion, and then I get torn up for it.

The reason why the bonuses that you get don't transfer to everywhere in the game is because the rest of the game has not been play-balanced for those bonuses. If you look at the Norn health bonus, this seems like a lot, but actually it only helps just somewhat in the context of where you use it. I haven't seen a real way to "exploit" the Asuran energy bonus either. It's helpful, but it's not like you can really run wild as the monsters are extremely powerful and you can't solo the area.

As for using consumables, nobody is going to use consumables unless they are really doing badly, and they won't help anybody that's trying to farm (ANet's biggest concern). The new items seem powerful, but if you're going to reach for them frequently, then this means your team or build has some problem that needs fixing. A Powerstone of Courage can fix massive party-wide DP, but it's not going to prevent your party from wiping five minutes later. In any case, there's a HUGE difference between spending money and crafting materials on a one-time use item, and a title that lasts forever.

I don't understand why people can't see that +15 free Energy to any profession in the game--with no negatives or conditions--is not going to cause some kind of drastic, new metagame if it's taken outside of Eye of the North.

/signed

I was very disappointed when I found out it didn't do this already (after preview weekend).

/Signed,

Balance should only be in PvP not PvE furthermore if ANET does allow someone to use title abilities outside of a respective area you should only be able to select one title ability before you leave town. In this way you can't have both Asuran extra energy then suddenly norn extra hit points in the middle of an explorable area.

As per usual, you snip only the things that make you appear to be right and miss the point completely. I gave valid reasons as to why this would be illogical to insert into the game as if looking at it through a PvE standpoint, it does absolutely nothing to benefit your character in other areas of PvE.

The entire "hi i'm mediocre" comment was a sum-up of the argument of which others including you had posted to the fact of well others might want it but can give no valid reason as to why we should get it other than "We might want it." As I said when you can give a truly valid reason as to how it would tie into the rest of the game, im all for hearing it.

We as players would and are not in competition in PvE, but with these title allowing players to gain benefits outside of Eye of the North, would prevent some people from being able to play the game with others. Remember not everyone has bought GW:EN, so therefore would not have access to these titles.

How exactly would me having say, rank 7 Agent (selected and active in say, HM Ascalon area) prevent someone without the expansion from playing with me?

You're an exception, since you're a nice guy, right? Part of Yichi's point was that it'd probably cause more PvE rank discrimination (i.e. "LFM, R5 Lightbringer only"). However, given the fact that more and more people are going with Heroes, I don't think it'd be entirely applicable.

Ah, then if that's the case, nothing would change.

I wouldn't consider myself a "nice" guy, but I'm decent I guess. I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that you must be 'rank x" or have "x skill" for me to play with you.

lots of people would like it, lots of those same people are pretty good players.
I dunno about other "vets" but after 2 years playing when it comes to PUGing ill take on anyone not matter how unskilled or with whatever build onto my team as long as im prepared for it (in skillbar or hero loadout).
having these titles being effective anywhere would only encourage me (and probably others) to do it more.
games are supposed to be fun...if you want efficiency go....i dunno, go hang out with people in charge of downsizing.

/signed

You're only right ... because he forgot to mention PvE only skills.
- - -

Now, I'm not saying you need these effects to do anything. After all I did get my Legendary Guardian tittle (mostly with H+H) without them.

I think it would be nice to have those effects availlable everywhere as a reward for the work you did.

ps. I'll never max them out myself, because I don't like grind and I'd rather take another character through the game when finisdhed than start over with the same one.

Lord what are you on about! Whos a grinders, who wants to show off? I have nooo idea what your on about there! Why wont you accept that you dont have to use these titles, and if you dont want to grind to max them out, you dont have to!

Your just a player who wants everything given to you at max levels. You have to own everything ingame, and your annoyed you cant collect these skills and use them at max levels.

Well tough, you dont need them at max levels and you dont even need them at all! Even at rank 4 or 5, these pve only skills are still very effective! I have no intention of maxing out my ranks and im on rank 8, 7, 5 and 5! Thats till do me!

I dont even have all of the pve only skills because I dont like polymock and i dont like Norn tournaments. But do you see me complaining that I cant get them without playing mini-games I dont like? No!! Because I know i dont need them!

Keep in mind that you cant even get all the pve only skills in GWEN unless you play polymock and the Norn tournemants and drawf boxing. That means playing pvp-ish mini-games to unlock pve skills.

Does that make sense?
Is that far?

I personally dont think so because as I said, I dont like those mini-games! I expect alot of others dont like them, and want all the pve only skills! But Im not complaining... why? Because I know I dont need them!

If I entered a PUG and I didnt have summon flame Djin (because I dont like paying polymock) would you kick me? Ofcourse not, or atleast I would hope not. Why? because when exactly do you need summon flame djin in GWs? You dont!! its just a nice little extra!

PvE only skills do not cause anything to be inbalanced because your not forced to use them ever! Why can you not grasp that?

Things only cause inbalance if Anet forces you to use them, or changes them based on pvp aspects! But Anet is noy holding a gun to your haed and making you use them. There are no aspects in the entire game that require you to use any GWEN pve only skills.

FLOG will you understand that?

Another typical elitism attitude!

"If you dont use the skills I tell you to, or you dont have the right title rank you cant join my PUG, ragh ragh ragh".

This is pve, there are NO instances when a person is required to use any pve only skills or have a set rank in any GWEN titles!

If your the kind of person who wouldnt accept a player into your team because (for instance) their Norn title wasnt high enough, then OMG your sad!

I wouldnt want to PUG with someone who tried to force people to have higher ranks, just to meet their eliteist standards.

There is nothing wrong with allowing us to use the status effects in the entire game. But if players are going to warp that with those kind of attitudes, then that is their problem. Not mine!

I wouldnt join a pug with players like that.

God....no....

Comments like that scare the bejesus out of me.GW has already, slowly but surely, gone the way of promoting grind through titles such as Lightbringer, Sunspear, etc and while I have no problem if you wear your FoW armor and think your the bees knees transferring that mentality and game mechanic over to such potent bonuses is totally against the philosophy of what GW set out to be in the first place.

A game where a part-time player was in no way inferior to a full-time.

Leave elitism and grind where it should be, in the realm of gear, NOT skills and bonuses.

I fear what GW2 will bring.

/not signed

Anet will not do this, they already nerfed Rebel Yell(Vanguard Title) to limit it to GW:EN and those few spots in Tyria where Charr are found.

Dwarf title only works on Destroyers, makes sense to limit it such.

Norn works in norn lands, unless you are a Norn this is gotta be where it works.

Asura Bodyguard, no asura in the area to protect, no bonus, makes sense.

Keep things as they are.

/signed
we have sunspear and kurzick / luxon skills that work in other campaigns so why not GW:EotN skills seems reasonable long as it doesnt inbalance the game much

I saw it happening in NF more than I'd like. Like I said, H/H are becoming more popular these days, and I rarely see PUGs anymore, so I agree it not happening a whole lot these days.

What does that mean? Are you assuming Yichi is having an "elitist attitude?" Because she's referring to other players.

Exclamation points at the end of all my sentances gets my point across!

But seriously. Of course it's sad. This is Guild Wars, it's full of sad, annoying, bratty people. But I wouldn't be suprised to see this common mentality among PUGs.

Who's blaming you? And the fact that there are people who would have this mentality be a problem in itself.

And thirdly, why is this being made into such a big deal? You'll do fine with them, you'll fare the same without them.

Agreed, with the way they limit the skills it can be safe to assume what ANet's intention is: Keeping most of what they can limited to GWEN.

I see no problem with extending their use elsewhere, and don't really see why they shouldn't be

Somantics of how things work are not always useful, so the Asuran title refers to you being a Bodyguard for them, and Asura are not in other areas. Well this would imply when you have Vekk in your party it should work?

anyway, with regard to the original post of the bonus not being of particular use in the asuran and norn lands i would imagine they will be far more useful once Hard Mode is available there

You can already use GW:EotN skills in other campaigns.

What you perhaps also want is LB skills working on anything and the LB title working on every monster? That would be a good comparison, atm your statement/argument makes no sense.

And no sir, You Freekedoutfish are the one that seems to want to promote elitism, I remember numerous threads/suggestions being started by you that relate to this.

"Add elite armor for cartography title"

unsigning rank requirements for gwen armors come to mind.

All evidence of your elitist attitude.

It's also known that you just love reputation grinding and you have probably maxed out 2/5 of the tracks, you just want even more rewards besides the increased points it gives in pve only skills, which is also elitism.

And can you please find your way to the suggestion forum sometime soon?

Sorry!

I just find it absolutely obserd when people try to suggest the new PvE skills are either creating an unbalanced game, or that by adding them Anet has somehow forced players to use them.

Its all just rediculious!

It all comes down to a select group of players thinking they are elite, and demanding other players use these PvE only skills. And if their not high enough a rank, they cant join.

Its not Anet causing any inbalancement, its that select group of players warping the game per-usual into something its not.

I've said 10000 times to this player or that player, that these pve only skills are optional and arent critical to the game. But it doesnt seem to want to sink in!

Usually just because said player, wants all his team to use a certain pve only skill in elite zones! And their getting miffed because either people arent high enough in rank for them, or they dont have them!

Its just childisn and people trying to dicate how you should play, to better suit them and their ideals!

Stop using this term "inbalance". None of the PvE skills are causing any inbalancement in the slightest!!! (notice all the !!!!!!)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For something to cause inbalancement ingame, it has to be...

1) Compulsary to use or critical to completing a certain task ingame.
2) It has to effect that critical aspect when/if its nerfed or change in some way.
3) The skill isnt equal in power to each player during that critical task.

Now lets put those criteria and compare them to PvE only skills.

1) None of the PvE only skills are compulsary to use or critical to any aspect of GWs (at all). Even LB gaze isnt 100% needed to kill demons.
2) Because their not critical, that means any nerfs or buffs wont impact the ability to complete any aspects of the game.
3) Yes those skills arent equal amoungst all players due to ranks, but because #1 and #2 isnt true, it invalidates #3.

Do we understand?

These PvE only skills are not causing any inbalancement. People who suggest they are, are generally players who want to use these skills in elite zones. Players who want their entire team to use said skill at max level.

Players who judge others on their ranks and dont accept you if you're not high enough. Players who try to dictate that you need said skill to do said area, quest, dungeon or mission.

Its these players who are putting the preasure on others to increase ranks, so they feel they can enter groups! Its not Anet's fault!

The truth being that you dont need these skills at all! No area in GWs is dependant upon the use of PvE only skills. Not elite zones, not vanquishing, not NM or HM, not mission or dungeons or quests! Nothing at all!

Even LB gaze is very effective at rank 1 so that invalidates that!

Inbalancement can only exist if the thing in question is critical to playing the game and we are required to use it, and that aspect is then unequal amoungst players. And these skills arent!

Btw that wasnt personally against JaiGaia!

Anyway the main point is about these status effects and not the pve only skills. Can we try to stay on track and not talk about inbalancement. Letting us use the status effects wont cause any inbalancement in other campaigns.

Especially since we are allowed to already use consumables which remove all DP in other campaigns and we can give them to lower end characters.

If we are allowed to give consumables to low level characters, in noob areas of the game, then how is allowing us to use Asuran and Norn status effects outside of GWEN any worse?

Welcome to Guild Wars, where no matter how many times you tell the average PUGer such and such, it won't sink in. People will always think that Paragons suck, that Assassins are useless, and that Mending and Healing Hands are viable and efficent skills. Of course the skills and titles are optional and that you'll do fine without them, but there are quite a few who think differently.

Of course it's childish, annoying, and stupid. But people will do it anyway. It can't be avoided.

Given the fact that ANet pretty much *wants* us to play with other people and will try to prevent any discouragement from doing so, and seeing how insignificant an advantage these titles offer, I don't expect any changes coming along to this. If I'm wrong, then hoo-rah, you can cast one additional spell before your energy goes out and you'll be able to die slower.

How was I being elitist when all I said is that there is descrimination out there that people WILL descriminate on another players rank in a title or effectiveness of a skill or a skill selection.
You obviously haven't payed attention to any of the last half of Nightfall then.....
agreed. never said it was required for anyone to have these or have any rank in titles. I'm absolutely certian that I have even said that in other posts, but it would help if people read them before going on a rant....
1.) after pug expierences I have had personally, I will normally only make pugs with people I know, but on the rare occasions I do pug I don't care who comes and with what normally unless its the monks. 2.) This already goes on with the LB title in certian areas of the game. Again pay attention.

Most pugs that people mistake for having an elitest attitude can be half the time, contributed to the players own stubborness. Seen it far too often when asking nicely why a person prefers skill x over skill y in certain situations. Generally I won't even talk if I'm ever in a non-friend pug.
I never said there was a problem with it. I said its not going to help a player either a) learn what they need too fix just because now they have an extra 10 energy or b) since the titles have a criteria that must be met, cannot be met anywhere outside of gw:en. again pay attention.
As sad as this will sound, its suggested that you don't PuG then, because I'd say 50% of pugs out there ARE descriminatory against other players and what they may or may not have for rank in skills or titles.
Life called and told me to tell you hello.

Ive actually never personally experienced discrimiation against a persons rank while in pve. Not even while doing nightfall and with the LB ranks!

I'm purely going by what ive been told happens, and by the attitudes of some posters who try to defend it in elite zones.

Sorry if i assumed you were one of them, I might have worded my post wrong to sound like it was aimed at you.

/notsigned

+100 hp or +10nrg is a lot, the game is easy as it is (i think there's still around a screenshot of someone who did THK without skills, armor and an all hench party)

This thread belongs in Sardelac.

/not signed, because we have consumables. If you really want the extra health or energy, you can use Grail of Might outside of GW:EN, in any campaign.

Thats a blatant contradiction and we are talking game mechanics here dude, not selfish motivation.

If rules are not in place to dictate game play the game world slowly falls apart.Again imo skill access and potency directly corresponding to game time, at least in the extremes Anet has gone with some of these GWEN titles, is one of the worst ideas I've ever seen in a MMO to date.

If the theme continues into GW2 I shall hang up my GW coat and search elsewhere for fair for all, easy access, game play.

Sure you should have to finish the game or play for a certain and realistic amount of time to get skills but Anet are going over the top with GWEN title related skills and having to grind out ludicrous amounts of time to access them and make them efficient is complete garbage and Anet clearly would rather add need for repetition than actual original content with fair access for all.

Grinding should be an option and while it's not "needed" to complete the game and have fun part-time players with jobs and outside commitments like me should not be at a direct skill, health or energy based disadvantage due to not playing 10 hours a day.

Your missing the point that it's a game play mechanic and principle at heart here and if they did what you asked where would it stop?Weapons only allowed to be used by max title characters?Armor?Access to levels?

Screw that.Other MMO"s cater to that elitist style of play not Guild Wars.

Theres a level 20 cap for a reason.

GW was never about elitism outside the realm of gear until NF and even then it was'nt a dramatic issue as it was purely aesthetic in the main with a player with 20-40 hours under the belt able to hold his/her own in PvE with maxed attributes, health, energy, most skills needed for a good build and max damage output but asking to add so much of a health or energy bonus merely because you have nothing better to do than grind out titles for hundreds if not thousands of hours is putting the part-time player at a distinct disadvantage.

As it stands a part-time player is just as viable as a "People Know Me" player in the prequels which directly promotes experienced players mixing with newer ones which can only be good for the community as a whole in the long run.

Why create such a game play effecting distinction?

You have made the comment that is only a problem for those of an elite mentality but your completely missing the obvious effect it would have over time.

Why take a "normal" PvE player from the prequels when that GWEN guy over there has max titles which directly correspond to his health and energy.It's not rocket science this would directly promote elitism, regardless of intention, speaking of which I'd look at your avatar before accusing others of having an elitist attitude.

Much of the reason Guild Wars has such a great community in the first place is directly due to the the lack of distinction between full-time and part-time players with both being on a relatively level playing field.This type of change would do nothing but see "noobs" play with "noobs" and "leet" players shun those without certain titles.

You might not, the majority would.

To end it promotes nothing but grind based access and elitism in the realm of skills and health/energy related bonuses which is something that only "high-end" GWEN players should have to worry about if they so choose and only in certain areas.

Keep that crap out of the prequels thanks.

I would like the whole package from the tittle./signed
At least make things in PVE stay in PVE.

I really dont understand where your coming from, in suggesting that im trying to promotse elitest attitudes!

Allowing us to use the Asuran and Norn status effects outside of GWEN wouldnt do that. If you were to come accross a PUG who dictate you cant join because your title in either isnt high enough, you tell them to f'off and grow up.

You seem to be missing the blatent fact that consumables from GWEN can be used by players (max leve or not) in other campaigns, and outside of GWEN. Imagine a player in GWEN bought a handfull of consumables, put them in storage and then used them with their lvl10 character in noob areas or sold them to a newbie player.

Are you suggesting that doesnt give that low level player a staggering advantage at such a low level?

Imagine them doing all the starter quests with the ability to remove DP and protect against critical hits. That is a far greater advantage then adding 100 health or extra energy!

And consumables are not the same as candy canes. Candy canes are alot less effective then consumables in removing DP and they dont protect against critical hits or ress your entire team in one go.

If your willing to accept that its ok for consumables to be used and traded by low level characters, then you are in no position to protest against 100 extra health and some extra energy!

Consumables are also a luxary item that only rich players can afford on mass. That means all those rich farmers and ecto traders are going to be at a huge advantage when buying them.

Again you have rich players running around with items that give a huge advantage, while the poor might only afford the odd few if any.

The status effects are achievable by all and use-able by all regardless of wealth ingame. You dont have to sacrifice vital gold to get them, which you might be saving for other things.

These status effects would also only be used by max level characters who presumably already have max armor, max weapons and runes. Your not giving these players any staggering advantage with just 100 extra health and 15 more energy.

They are already experienced players who can probably wipe a campaign anyway. It would just be a nice thing to have!


I think your against this idea, because you think it would make people in elite zones start forcing you to use these title to gain the advantage. Maybe it would, but that is their choice if they want to behave like that.

I personally would just avoid and ignore any PUGs who had that kind of attitude. I've left PUGs before who try to dictate behaviour, and found others who were more fun.

That elite attitude would happen regardless of this idea! You get people who ask you to use a skill that you might not have, because yo dont own a certain campaign. You get people asking you to bring certain heroes, but you dont have certain campaigns.

You could argue that if I was to stand in the TOA I would get picked before anyone else because I have legendary guardian! It all depends on the attitude of the PUG and its leader. Some PUGs arent that arrogant and will take anyone, while others will judge you on the smallets and most pathetic things!

You cant not add or change stuff, just because of the behaviour and attitudes of eliteists who love themselves! Elitist players warp and pervert virtually every aspect of this game. They will see something new and suddenly decide you cant join them unless you use it or equip it. Even if it makes no difference.

When they added SF for elementals, I had every PUG I joined asking if I use a SF build and alot them ordered me to use it. If we let them dictate the suggestions we make, then how is that good? Should we never change anything ever again that will benefit the game, just because they will pick it up and warp it to alienate players?

I just left and told them to f'off, because its not that great! They only wanted me to use it because of the hype around it! I'm sure players in elite zones will start to dictate you take consumables and if you dont have any, they kick you! It wouldnt surprise me at all!


But the main arguement is that if you accept consumables are ok to be used outside of GWEN and given to low end players, you cant argue against this idea. Because otherwise your accepting one staggering advantage and disallowing another!






The bit I dont understand it this; These PvE only skills and these status effects arent critical to gameplay. Yet people keep making this same statement of "your being forced to grind these titles to make them more powerfull". No your not!!! No one is forcing you to do that, or pressuring you to that.

If you come accross someone who tries to order you to use PvE only skills, or judges you on your title rank and wont accept you, why are you bothered?

Why do you care what some eliteist moron thinks of you just because your rank 3 and not rank 8! Join another PUG, take guildies, take friends! Player with people who dont judge you!

If you cave-in to the preasure and then run out and spend every day grinding your title higher and start using PvE only skills because some moron told you to, then that is your choice and your own fault.

Stand up for yourself and dont just grind these titles because some moron told you too!

You dont need to use PvE only skills and you dont need high ranks in certain titles to progress. They are just nice little touches to make your gameplay better and different. You cant complain and blame Anet just because your spent 20 hours grinding a title, just because some idiot told you too in order to join his PUG!

Do you not have a mind of your own?
Do you not know how to say no?
Do you just do what everyone tells you to?

Yes it would.

Assuming everyone would have your attitude of not making it so is ignorant and false.

Your comparing consumables canceling death penalty, rezzing or protecting against critical hits to taking GWEN specific and permanent in area health and energy bonuses only accessible by GWEN owners to other campaigns.

Bad analogy man.Get real.

Involving pre-level 20 in your stance is completely inaccurate.Who cares if someone gets to lvl 20 in an hour?

I don't give a hoot.It has no effect on my game and a factions created character can get there in a few hours anyway.

The whole point is lvl 20 is a set game limit in health and energy for all players.You wish to change that for a select group of players.

Dude...your joking right.


lol

A consumable in comparison to +100 Health and + 15 energy.Do you even play GW?Who the heck needs a consumable of the type you describe pre lvl-20?

Seriously.....

No....thats what rez skills are for.These consumables are simply not needed in the prequels and your attempt to justify yourself by using that as an example is an exercise in poor judgement and comprehension of overall game mechanics.

Yes I am as I stated above.Your comparison holds no water and is a tad futile.Who cares if new players get such consumables.The point is we ALL have access to them through trade and they have no effect in separating players via skill, health or energy post lvl 20.

The GWEN skills don't work like that.They are permanent in given areas and restricted in access to players of GWEN.

Your logic in this regard is seriously flawed.

Consumable and temporary gain vs permanent title bonuses.

Are you getting me yet?

Wrong.

You would firstly need to own GWEN and secondly have the time to commit to achieving a high rank to really make them shine.Re-read my above post and pay attention to my part-time vs full-time player comments.

Then why do you care?

Yeah...thats great fun for new players.I'm seriously wondering how you manage to think this way.

The point is creating a disadvantage for those that don't either have GWEN or the time to get these titles.

It creates a segregation in player level and power.Basically your saying that you should be lvl 25 while people who only own the first 3 games have to stay at lvl 20.

Period....and no.

Also to claim +100 health and +15 energy as not giving a player a distinct advantage is ludicrous at best.


I explained exactly why I'm against it in my previous post.Don't try to put words in my mouth as it's all there in plain english and you would be a fool to turn down any player with +100 health and +15 energy when compared to the set norm.

Yes it would but for greatly less game altering or significant reason.Saying "OMG Wammo u have ten mending noob kthxbye!!" is a tad different to "You have 100 less health and 15 less energy than the rest of us...goodbye"

Yes...+100 health and +15 energy is small and pathetic....*rolls eyes*

As a Sin thats a 20% increase on my base health and a 50% increase in energy.....do you even comprehend what such a bonus would do to builds or my effectiveness as a Sin let alone any other class.


I suggest you rethink what your actually saying.This mantra has no merit even being in the topic.



The whole game mechanics of Guild Wars revolves around restrictions in health and energy hence the GWEN bonuses are novelty and area specific.You would be changing everything from rune value to armor worth, build structure, etc.

Think about it man...seriously.

Did you even read my post?

I don't give a damn about "leet" players.I give a damn about restricting world wide +100 health and +15 energy to players who own GWEN and spend all day grinding titles.

When titles are directly relevant to health and energy?Your confusing aesthetics and reward markers with actual gain to a players effectiveness.

Oppps.


And about here is where I think you lost the plot.

Good day sir.

Just to point something out-imagine if lightbringer titles affected every creature. Do you think people would insist on you having maxed out lightbringer? Of course they would; people already insist a weapon must have 15^50 to be 'perfect'.

Same with this who silly idea. Scrap title based skills and tie them to primary stats.

To put this thread a little more back on track...

We are not talking about PvE skills here, only the Asura and Norn title effects.

Allowing these tittle effects out side of there designed locations is just not a very good idea. Any more than allowing LB tittle to affect all monsters. These titles were meant to only work in GW:EN.
They were meant to only provide a small bost to players during quests in GW:EN.

To have the abbility in say a Nightfall mission to instantly switch titles and gain 60+hp or 10+ energy is a major bonus/advantage.

Would you want a crafter in GW:EN to make a shield with +90 hp mod? or an offhand with +22 energy? This is the equivilant of what your asking for.