Let Asuran and Norn status effects work outside GWEN!

Actually, /signed on that condition.

Plot-related.
The ONLY valid reason so far for keeping them out of the rest of the game so far..... THANK YOU draxynnic.


That isn't how A-Net would view it.
And honestly, if that is the attitude you hold to then you have nobody but yourself to blame for the ease of the game.

Imagine this hypothetical scenario:
A-Net ... having got tired of maintaining Guild Wars and whatnot.... put a button into the game that will instantly render your party invincible for as long as you want... and perhaps a button that will insta-kill whatever enemies you're looking at.
Would you press those buttons just because they're there? I sure as hell wouldn't.

You'll find that both in Guild Wars and life... there are many things that are "just there"... but it doesn't mean you have to use them... ESPECIALLY when their effect is entirely contrary to your intents. You do have a choice there, in as much as one can assume choice exists at all. Nobody is forcing you to play a certain way... so you've got no business complaining about it if you DO play that way.

Disagree?

The title effects... be they Norn, Asura or Lightbringer..... are merely crutches. They are crutches to help those who can't (or won't) walk on their own. They are entirely unnecessary to someone whose legs, metaphorically speaking, are working just fine.... but that doesn't mean there aren't people who could really do with them.


Different people require different levels of focus... and consider different things "difficult". I'd imagine... since you associate with other particularly experienced and game-competant people... that it is entirely natural for them to find it easy. If you were hanging around Kaineng Marketplace and fraternising with the newbies... you might be seeing different opinions expressed (if you could even understand their primitive language).

Odd as it may sound... I think most of normal mode PvE is exactly the right difficulty level. Some bits are a bit tougher, some a bit less so. I find Hard Mode too difficult, as do I the Elite Areas (even in Normal)...
Though almost certainly I'm worse at the game than you are.... even if I weren't I would probably still have the same opinion because I'm a different person with different values and judge my surroundings differently.


Maybe with some parts... but not so much with others. People wouldn't play games at all if they had no choice. Interaction itself is a choice. The A-Net devs effectively have to try and find the balance between a totally linear and forced experience where everything is controlled.... and a totally free environment where players feel lost for choice and devoid of guidance.
Players are finicky things.... Generally, while on one hand we want to be able to make choices and feel like we personally have something to add.... we also want a great deal just served up to us without our having to make any more complex decision than whether we'll accept it or not.
And the fact is.... being individuals with differences, some will err on the side of more freedom (myself) while others will err more on the side of a guided and provided game (yourself)... A-Net ideally need to cater to both sides...


I'll tell you why A-Net put the grind in: A substitute for their own fading creativity.
I know from personal experience that it is hard to remain inspired, new and fresh forever. One cannot keep coming up with new and engaging content on a constant basis.... not least when what takes days or weeks to make can be basically plowed through by a player and their herohench in 5 minutes with a remark of "that's done then".
Sooner or later... everyone would start looking for shortcuts... ways they can do less work for more feedback.
The result is the grind. It has very little actual content to it.... but takes a bloody long time and a lot of repetition.... It can keep a person occupied for weeks while only taking a few hours to implement.

While I'm sure A-Net wanted a grind-free environment.... sooner or later everyone will cave to laziness if there is a constant demand for more and more content. It is inevitable.... and honestly, they need to be given a bit of slack.

Easy solution - full effect in norn/asura/vanguard territory, half the bonus outside.

Conditional nonsense unneeded.... otherwise it might as well be 10% effect for each of having an enchant, a stance, a hex, a condition, a shout, a chant, a speed boost, being drunk, wearing the right armour... and who knows what else?

It just makes more work for A-Net.


I'll just re-iterate that I'd LIKE to use my Norn title anywhere and everywhere..... but I don't NEED it and won't be devastated if nothing is changed.
The amount of difference it would make would be minimal anyway.

Isn't the game already too easy?

/not signed forever.



....omg even Racthoh's doing it.

Yeah /signed on maxing it out completetly before being able to use it.

Consumables and candy canes can be traded though, can't they? Titles can't.

But isn't our intention to help those people, to bring them off those crutches? If the title could be universal, I feel like it would just encourage to stay on them.

WHAT!, there are people who don't own all 3 campaigns?

Given that people will charge 50 gold just to open the gate to the northlands in Pre-Searing.... do you seriously think that having given up a skill point and invested a fair amount of resources in a consumable item.... that person wouldn't try to sell it for a profit?
The end result is that those without GW:EN cannot get such things at their original prices.... but instead have to pay an indeterminate amount more for them. That is to say nothing of the trouble of finding someone willing to trade them in the first place.


Encouragement doesn't really come into it. They will choose for themselves whether they want to take them off or not.... and I'd personally say that using such things even if you don't want them there is a sign of weak will.
Not only that... but some will end up being "crippled" for their entire duration in the game... so it wouldn't even be appropriate to try to ween them off that which allows them to enjoy the game like everyone else.

The only real way to help someone is to let them do what they want to do.... Anything else is just imposing your will on them.

So you honestly believe that some people will never get better at the game, or be able to find other ways to success? If that is your belief, than I guess I can't argue with you.

If I understand your statement there. Are you saying consumables are ok to use in previous campaigns because they can be used to trade and make profit? If im right, doesnt that prove my point about people favourism consumables because the only require gold!

That would suggest that im right in thinking people are purely against this idea because either they wont make profit on it, or they cant simply buy it! I've only seen reasons against this idea, because people have to work to make the Status effects stronger!

While people are fine with consumables and candy canes being used in all campaigns because they either get them free or can buy them!

So again the rich are fine (because they can buy hand fulls of consumables)... while the poor suffer (because they cant). Just adding to the rich-poor devide! IMO the status effects are actually more fair then the consumables. The status effects only require earning points and grinding (something we all can do), while consumables require large amounts of gold to buy them in bulk.

Consumables are a rich-mans luxary and a poor-mans necessity!

Status effects are usable by all, regardless of wealth! It makes no sense to allow consumables to be used in all aspects of the game, but not status effects! Consumables could be used by low-end players and make it far easier to progess at low levels! Status effects can only be used by high end players from GWEN who are already maxed out.

End result =

The rich can buy handfulls of consumables and make their personal gameplay and the gameplay of low-end characters, aloteasier.

The poor cant afford consumables, and make do with less effective candy canes and less of them! Their lives are still a headache!

Solution =

Make status effects work throughout the entire game to give the poor players more of an edge!

no thanks

/notsigned

It happens, for one reason or other.
Heck... some people just don't stick around long enough to get better. Others just never move into situations where they would have anything to learn.

This is an excellent point.

I don't think that Title Track bonuses need to be extended to other Chapters, but I can't think of any reasonable argument that they shouldn't.

We already have PvE skills that unbalance the game, so that argument is moot.

They are already consumables that can be bought and traded across campaigns, so the argument that it should be limited to one campaign is moot.

Until someone can come with a rational argument, I'm gonna have to agree with freakedoutfish. Why not?

/signed

Off Topic: I liked your old avatar better.

And to them I say "l2p." I'm sorry, but I won't be sympathetic to people who don't want to learn more about how the game works.

The people you are arguing with, and let me put in the word "may" here - may be entitlement junkies.

Really, if a player is winning the game anyway, what does extra health or power do? Nothing. It will not make a difference in their game play experience, since they are already winning. They have other motives for screaming "no".

Maybe they get some kind of power kick out of the idea that they can win the game, and haunt forums to seek and mock others who cannot. That is a sick mindset and they need professional help, really. The really sad part is that the whole basis for the game is the rock/paper/scissors trick/countertrick paradigm, so if a PvE mob or Boss is using paper, they just need the scissor skills. I have been reading the difficulty complaint threads, and the players having difficulty are always lacking skills. Of course, as the height of hubris they imply that the other player is deficient, when more likely they have a job or other priorities, besides GW, and lack time.

Of course, they could also just be annoying weenies as well.

I really do not see a good spin for the people who say in one thread "lrn2play" and in another "OMG ONOES dont make the game easier!!!!!!!11!!one!" without offering a shred of assistance to people in builds or tips.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

I don't really care anymore. Thanks to grinded PVE skills, GW's has already become an absolute imba grindfest.
/Signed, for what it will change.

could you guys stop referring to PvE and balance? It's laughable to even think that PvE has balance in the first place. Canvassing the mass of opinions on whether an area is 'too hard' or 'too easy' is not balance, sorry.

Then I dont see the issue with my idea! In PvE you can play the game however you want, and if you want extra health or extra energy then why not?

But are you agreeing with me, because I cant seem to tell!!!

It seems like you are and in which case OMG. But just because one person wants really challenging game, with out any advantages doesnt mean the next player does.

The other player might want a really casual gameplay and consumables, candy canes and status effects give them that!

And my main arguement now is basically... if they allow consumables to be used throughout the entire game, then there is no reason not to do the same with the status effects.

Removing DP gives a much greater edge in PvE then increasing health and energy!

I couldnt agree more, especially since most people are complaining about aspects (such as pve only skills, consumables and titles and status effects) which are completely pve only.

This means their use and effects are completely personalised to that individual and their gaming experience. Yes you can join a PUG and it will benefit them too, but even so! That is your choice about how to play and its their choice to allow you to join them.

People seem to forget that GWs is also a solo experience, and not just a PUGing game.

There are players who play alone and their gaming style has no impact on you and your gameplay, unless you join them and knowingly accept that gameplay experience!

If you dont want to play an easier game, then dont use those aspects which make it easier. If you want an easy game, then do use them! No ones forcing you otherwise!

I understand that. The thing is, what's so bad about having the option?

I agree with you. There is no logic behind the statement "The game is too easy as it is" since what amounts to a free (extra) health or power rune on every character is not going to alter the gameplay experience of someone who is winning already.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

The reason why they can't implement these titles outside of Eye of the North is because somebody will figure out how to exploit them to make a billion gold in farming.

Most of the titles in Guild Wars that give bonuses are often limited to their scope on purpose. I.e., Lightbringer only works on demons... and apparently Stone Summit in Slavers' Exile. (You just know that the latter is going to be fixed soon).

The one that has me most concerned is the bonus energy from the Asuran title. If this could be implemented game-wide, the whole Guild Wars game would change completely. Even at Rank 5, you get +10 bonus energy. The title alone gives more energy than a full set of Radiant insignia. At Rank 10, you can have more energy than if you also added two additional Runes of Attunement, which is all you want to add unless you have some crazy build.

That's basically giving everybody a huge, free energy boost for just wearing a title. Then people are just going to slap on other runes and insignia to cover any other weaknesses (like extra armor or health) and the game would collapse pretty quick as everybody starts owning PvE like no tomorrow.

=====

Don't get me wrong...

I totally agree that PvE should feel more in line with other games. I hate how Guild Wars is the only game where "max level" doesn't really feel all that powerful unless you're in the beginning parts of each chapter, where the monsters are all super-low level and have low armor. Compare this to other games where long-time players are rewarded by making them feel like walking gods.

However, Guild Wars is a pretty fragile game. Having people run amuck with near-infinite energy builds is going to split the game wide open.

From what I can tell, ANet more-or-less quietly approves of grinding for titles and rares as this keeps people interested in the game. In fact, there's heavy evidence that ANet will manipulate the market--such as reducing Icy Dragon Sword drops--once farmers started moving in droves into the area to keep the price and demand high.

I think that what you want will probably show up in Guild Wars 2, where they can start over and hopefully fix a lot of problems with the GW1 model. If ANet didn't approve of such a thing, then I don't see why they are now thinking that a max level of 100 (or even higher) is now going to be the new formula. I can absolutely confirm that many people have quit Guild Wars after realizing that they "maxed out" their characters so early in the game. Most of my friends quit this game for that very reason--PvEers don't care about CHALLENGE, they care about being SUPER POWERFUL. Look at every other RPG ever invented and count how many aren't centered around obtaining a high level or some uber-rare weapon.

signed ... i see absolutely no imbalancing in this ...

it would help a little bit in Hard Mode, sure, but not so much, as when through this would become HM direct too weak and imbalanced ...

even not with normal mode.

the bit HP you have more through the Norn title, that won't help you much, when you receive within some seconds through several lvl 28 monsters some hits which will hit you all together so much ,that U''ll insta die when u get not protected good enough, the bit HP will ensure only, that you might live maybe 1-2 seconds longer in such fights, this isnt imbalanced.

+9 Energy, wow, thats in a fight where u've to spam quick skills 1-2 skill usages more, very imbalanced -.-
And classes like the Necromancer or the Elementalist have so or so enough base energy and ways to retrieve back energy over time good enough, so the 9 Energy more won't be so imba for any builds, which don't need to spam spells. this wold be much more olny a benefit for melee classes, which have much lesser energy, enabling them to not run so quick out of energy, and also enabling them to play some new nice builds, they would be able to to otherwise, like some builds which rely on skills which cost permanetly like 15-25 energy, thus making builds like W/Me, W/E and W/N making more interesting.

since the game has been around for 2+ years you could argue that pve is already imbalanced by experienced players vs inexperienced players. pugs anyone?

as for the ops suggestion, i dont see how it would "imbalance" pve further so ill sign for it, eventhough, i doubt anet will implement it.

I doubt this is in Anet's calculations, or else they would ban consumables in farming areas. As mentioned, consumables give as much, if not more, benefit than extra energy / health.

Wide open into what? A game where W/E actually makes sense? Again, this is PvE, who cares if Johnny can now make another uber build to farm...

Agreed to a point. There's a difference between challenging and stupidly difficult. And that goes back to what some other people have already said: having more Health or Energy will probably not help those that are failing anyway, their problem is the builds/heros they are using, not how much health they have.

Meh, I suppose it's not worth arguing about, as I doubt it will ever happen.

(Although this thread totally switches the "Vanguard Title is useless" rant on its head. In some ways, the vanguard title is the ONLY useful title, because it's the only one usable outside of GWEN).

How can PvE be imbalanced? Imbalanced against who exactly? I swear you people argue just to have yourselves heard. And don't say "that wouldn't be fun" because you just have to reach down to whatever nether region of your person holds your willpower and DON'T TURN ON THE BONUS IF IT WILL RUIN YOUR FUN!!!!! Seriously, what imbalance? I can already imbalance the mobs with my end game skills and weapons and my heroes are set up the same, so point to the balance issue please.

One thing I do not understand is why people complain about title track skills/consumables being imbalanced. Communism lovers ? According to that logic pre-order /bonus items are imbalanced either. Players who own more chapters will always have slight advantage over others. Balanced gameplay means that you can successfully finish the game without being forced to buy expansions.

/notsigned Would create too much imbalance. Not to mention that PvE is already way too easy as is.

You can, can't you? And you're not exactly forced to buy expansions. If you don't want them, don't buy them. Noone's pointing a gun at your head.

Ofcourse you can, that was my point. I'm not the one who is complaining about it.

The issue with that arguement is why exactly do we need the extra energy in Asuran territory and why do we need extra health in Norn territory?

Both areas which fall under them races, are easy without those extra status effects! And both territories are relatively small and only have about 3-4 tiny zones in each!

How much time do you spend in Asuran and Norn zones on average while playing GWEN? not enough to make those status effects usefull IMO!

Also if your arguement was right, then whats to stop people creating oober farming builds in Asuran and Norn territories once they max those titles? Those areas could just as easily be farmed as any other, and as a high end area it will give better drops (presumably).

In reality, the Drawf status effect is the only real critical one in GWEN. For quests, dungeons and glints challenge where you face the destroyers! None of the other status effects add any real advantage or feel critical to progressing!

I cant really accept that making the Asuran and Norn status effects, gamewide is going to add any huge advantage to anything outside of GWEN. The fact is that people already have oober farming builds for most sections of GWs and all campaigns.

Extra health and energy isnt going to suddenly make it easier then it already is to farm!

You also have to concider that these Status effects will only be used by lvl20 players with max armor, max weapons and max runes anyway. With a wide selection of normal and elite skills.

Such a player will have already completed most campaigns, or have an edge when playing new campaigns. Surely when a lvl20 char enters factions for the first time, they have an advantage over someone who starts it new?

I just feel that as an expansion (and as nice as new armor, weapons and skills are), we should be able to take more away from GWEN that feels worthy of buying it.

I find it hard to concider GWEN an expansion, because an expansion to me adds content to the entire game. Not just the stand alone bits they add in!

As ive also said myself.... the consumables already give more advantage then the status effects.

Imagine people farming in prophercies, faction or NF loaded with dozens of consumables and candy canes! With an instant ability to remove all DP and protect your team from ciritical hits. Does that not mean rich enough player can become the oober farmer?

You cant argue that Anet is trying to avoid making it easier to farm, when they allow players to use consumables in previous campaigns and allow you to share them with lower level characters!

Imagine a lvl10 player doing missions in ascalon loaded with consumables! They will fly through those missions and quests easily. No worries about DP like the other 90% of players there.

Actually I am the one arguing to take out the skills altogether so there is no imbalance. You are the one arguing to imbalance the game and must be the type of person who would require someone to have a specific skill, ect.

I am the one arguing to keep it skill based. You are the one arguing to keep it GRIND based. Please don't confuse the issue on it with a bunch of words. This is the bottom line on it.

WOW!!!! this thread a whine fest of horrible players...

The simple fact is that you don't need anything to make this game easier than it already is. You don't need the PvE skills, you don't need consumables, you don't need the title track bonuses. PERIOD!!!!

Fact time: If you're relying on these as your crutch to get you through the game, than you need to rethink how you play the game.

Then don't read it. My biggest pet peeve is whiners whining about whining...

Anyway, this is NOT a whine thread. It's a thread pointing out the inconsistencies in the game. Everyone here agrees that the Title Tracks are not needed... but since they are here, why not make them useful?

Agreed, but that's not the argument.

Again, agreed. I'd go farther and even argue that if your dying regularly in the game, this won't help a great deal.

But again, you're missing the point.

The point is, why NOT allow these in other areas?

The PvE only skills already unbalance the game, so the "unbalance" argument is moot.

The consumables already give you better bonuses - so that issue is moot.

Again, arguments about being "too easy" or "it's not needed" are missing the point - NONE of this stuff is "needed" - but it's there, so why not Title Track bonuses as well?

Just answer that question: Why Not?

Why can't we use more than three heroes? P
The answer to this question and to the thread is ???????????????????

ANet works in mysterious ways...

Ok then. Break the titles down by what they are and the only real one that has any merit is the vanguard title.

Asuran title - Edification: Gain x amount of energy while in Asuran territory. I'm sorry but I certainly don't remember an Asuran territory in Factions while running around Kaineg center or in Kamadahn, or in the Gate of Madness....

Dwarven title - (forgot name): gain x amount of damage against destroyers and steal x amount of life. Great. I'm sure that all the destroyers guarding the lich, or shiro, or abbadon will all fall with ease....

Norn title - Heart of the Norn: Gain x amount of health while in norn territory. Super. Ill be sure to use this while helping Jora track down her family in the Mirror of Lyss.... or in the Ring of Fire, bear formed creatures love to go there....

Now do any of you people have a clue? There is no purpose or logic behind any of these working. Hell even the vanguard title only works and has a benefit of being in Hardmode of early ascalon and shouldn't even be allowed to work there since the charr don't control it and it is still considered Ascalon Territory. Other than that this title is worthless in every other campaign except GW:EN.

Lord (or who ever it was) for the 100th time, drop your rediculious notion that the pve only skills create inbalence. I've been through that entire arguement in two other threads. Both of which I left because it just got pathetic.

You only think PvE only skills create inbalancement because you want people to use them in elite zones, or other players do. And if those players dont have the right rank for you or others, they get kicked. PvE only skills do not create inbalancement.

There is no issue about pve only skills, except what you and others are trying to create!!! Understand this for the 100th time - - -
PvE only skills are purely optional and are not critical to gameplay. You do not have to use them at all if you dont want to!

There is no aspect of the entire game, where you cant progress if you dont use a certain pve only skill. Even LB gaze isnt vitually important!

Stop trying to drag your notion of inbalancement in every thread I post, in some sad attempt to start this up again!!!







I give up, people really are just creating this issue of inbalancement themselves by forcing people to use these pve only skills. If you didnt force people to use them and you didnt judge others on their title ranks, then we wouldnt have these issues.

/Unsigned

Not everyone has GWEN.

Wrong - if you are already steamrolling PvE, then more HP or Power will not change your gameplay experience, you will still steamroll. And you yourself have said to me in the past that what affects you does not affect me, and vice versa, so if someone else has more HP then it does not affect you.

Does not stand up to logic, and your own past assertions there Yichi. Try another argument.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

understandable it doesn't effect me, but than again it wouldn't effect anyone else that has the title equipped since it would not meet the requirements of said title. Again you either cannot comprehend things, or are just incapable of seeing someone else's point. What point or function do these have? each has their own niche with it that you must be in their own terriotry to be used. Now please feel free to point out to me WHERE else in the Guildwars world is considered norn territory or where else I'm going to find destroyers at and ill retract my statement.

Yes, you stated the problem quite succinctly. The base title effects are worthless outside of GWEN.... what a waste. Some of us would like for that to change.

Try seeing our point of view.

So? Were Heros banned from Cantha? Can I not use skills from other campaigns?

Wow, imagine that, buying a product might give you an advantage in an Online Game....

(not that I buy the argument that having an "advantage" in PvE is somehow wrong in the first place...)