PCGamer's Ultimate GW2 Spoilers

EDIT: It's HERE!

You can now read the entire history of Guild Wars 2 here:

http://www.pcgamer.com/archives/2007...-_ultimat.html

This is a thread to discuss the lore given as "history" (the future to us) of GW2. A lot is changing, so if you want to be surprised, stop reading now!

(this takes place in about 1325 Mouvelian, assuming current time is around 1075 Mouvelian, and this is about 250 years after)

Please forgive mistakes as this is just a summary. (but point them out, so I can fix)

Defeating the Great Destroyer set back the awakening of Primordus, the first of many Dragons to awake 150 years ago. Glint and Kuunivang are but youths, no where near the power of these ancient dragons whose power rivals that of the gods themselves.

One such dragon caused the continent of Orr to rise to the surface, with the resulting flood destroying Sanctum Cay, D'Allesio Seaboard and the Battle Isles. Lion's Arch has become the new Guild Home, with access to Heros Hall.

150 years later, Divinity's Reach is the new capital of Kryta, ruled by a Queen and senate designed to give all people, not just Krytan's, a place to call home. But not all is peaceful: the White Mantle and Centaurs continue to fight for territory and control. Orr is now controlled by Draconian troops. If you dare to travel to this twisted, ruined landscape, you can still see the remains of Arah, city of the Gods, and her spiraled towers.

The Fire Island chain is patrolled by Undead corsairs, effectively blocking passage to Cantha.

In 1127 AE, Emp. Usoka, succ. of Kisu, takes tyrannical control of Cantha. He builds up and army, conquers the Luxons and Kurzicks (no, I'm not making this up) and expels all non-humans from Cantha. Many flee to Elonia and Tyria, but after Cantha is cut off from the rest of the world, the current situation is unknown.

60 years after Kormir's Ascension, Palawa Joka diverts and dams the Elon river, causing draught and famine in the northern provinces, and creating a green and growing Crystal Dessert. This is where Palawa Jokja currently resides. Those who bear the name Ossa are sent to him, and become part of his army. The Sunspears are all but extinct, with a few joining the forces of Joka, becoming dark knights called the Mordant Crescent. Order of Whispers still exists, and has expanded to Tyria. They hold the only true records of humanity, stored far ways from the cataclysm in the Shiverpeaks near Lion's Arch.

Dwarves are all but extinct, with a few rare Stone Dwarves remaining, driven with survivor passion. The Dredge have taken over Dwarven territory, and have become enemies of the Norn.

The Charr, on the otherhand, have an uneasy peace with the Norn as they continue to raid human lands. The Charr are still set in the goal to conquer the heart of Ascalon and beyond.

The Asura are the Neutral race, with gates in all major cities, and relations with all the races (including Charr). They live mostly above ground, in fear of the Dragon (Primordus?) who threatens them from the depths.

The Norn are isolated, not trusting the human Queen of Kryta, and having an uneasy peace with the Charr, they focus on battling the Dredge for control over dwarven territory, since an elder dragon of ice and snow rose from the northernmost peaks. (The one from Drakkar's Lake?)

Sylvari were born from the tree that the human Ronan and the centaur Ventari protect in GWEN. Ventari dies in 1165 A.E., after carving his life lessons on a marble tablet. Over a hundred years later, the tree continued to grow and sprouted cocoons, which gave birth to the Sylvari. They were guided to the tablets and venerate the Ventari Tablets as their most sacred artifact and testament. The Sylvari do not appear to age, they are "born" fully grown, with a special connection to each other they call the Dream of Dreams. This connection gives just born Sylvari basic knowledge, although many of life's lessons remain unknown. Also, beneath the voices of other Sylvari, a shadowy whisper can be heard through the Dream of Dreams...



Ascalon: [updated from new info from above link]


Having lost their homeland to the Charr, the humans of the Ascalon kingdom have been pushed ever west and south. The Great Northern Wall fell, and Ascalon City lies in ruins. The royal line of Adelbern ended with the death of Prince Rurik. The lone remaining human fortress in Ascalon lies at the far southern tip, where the eastern Blazeridge Mountains merge with the western Shiverpeaks. This last Ascalonian fortress, known as Ebonhawke, stands alone against all the might the Charr legions have to offer.

The continuing conflict between the humans and the Charr along the borders of Ascalon forced the humans ever farther into the Shiverpeaks. Although open war has ended save on a few small fronts, the hatred between the Charr legions and the human kingdoms never abated. If anything, it is worse than ever before. Ebonhawke stands alone in defiance, supplied by an Asura gate from Krytan territories.

The Charr solidified their control over Ascalon from their original lands in the north all the way south to the merging of the two mountain ranges at the edge of the Crystal Desert. Within the main territories of Ascalon, between the broken Great Northern Wall and the fortress of Ebonhawke, the Charr rule—but not unchallenged. In the last battle of Ascalon City, Adelbern used the final power of his enchanted sword, Magdaer, a relic from the age when the True Gods walked Tyria and built the city of Arah.

The stories told by the Charr (and the few, scattered human survivors of the battle) speak of a gout of sword-shaped flame rising from the highest tower in the city. After a white, burning heat swept the city streets, the dead and defeated Ascalonian guard arose once more, their spirits animated by the power of Adelbern's sword. In the face of this spectral resistance, the Charr were forced to abandon the city.

Since that time, the spectral soldiers have guarded the ruins of Ascalon City and the eastern frontier. They resist the Charr, but do not communicate with living soldiers from Ebonhawke. Their spirits are only memories, the lingering presence of a past that cannot let go of the present. Some believe that one day, when the rightful king of Ascalon returns with one of the two flaming swords—either Adelbern’s Magdaer or his son's, named Sohothin—the legion will abandon the city and sink at last into peaceful death. Until then, everyone is the enemy.

From all that i've heard it seems more like "oh hey lets kill everythingso we really won't have to write more than a couple sentences about it" cop out.

I don't have the mag myself but I been reading some info posted by some of my guldies who live over there. So far so.....well not good isn't it?

LA gone, Cantha rules by a semi-nazi Emperor who take over Luxon & Kurzick land, Elona under Joko's control, Sunspear are all but wipe out, Whisper order went in hiding. The Charrs are nearly take over Ascalon, King Adelbern summond a gaint holy sprit to protect the city before he went 6 feet under. Orr rise from the depth and now a HQ for the bad guys. Dragons are everywhere, most of them are bad. The 2 good dragons we know are but a puppy compare to them.

The future is bright indeed. Are here I am thinking, save the mesmer, save the world.

Mag should hit stores on september 25th in the United States. Should be able to pick it up then...I dont think its out anywhere yet is it?

The magazine came out early in Cannada, a lot of canadians have got themself the mag & mini destroyer.

Finally some challenges. I'm looking forward to taking on Primordus.

So helping and letting Joko go was massive mistake afterall! lol

Not all of us will ever get this mag, can you provide a bullet point summary?

This part really pissed me off.

So, 250 years in the future, and we're fighting a guy who should have been killed in Nightfall. Bah. I'll update my first post with a summary.

You know what would be cool? During that dark time there was one young Sunspear who was seduced by the dark power and help Joko hunted down and killed all of the Sunspears. That young sunspear is the grandson/daughter of Koss and Meloni.

Yeah. that would be awsome. Especially if some hack of an actor played him, and it totally broke the continuity of the other movies...

of wait, what are we talking about again?

so pretty much nothing's really changed much as far as EotN stuff goes, asura have settled in to their above ground homes, Norn are still there and still not trusting humans, the Charr are still bent on killing humans....

hey, won't we be able to play as Charr? please god tell me they won't make this into another luxon/kurzick thing.

Orr is back and bad as ever....they really f-ed up the geography of Tyria from the sounds of it, Cantha is now under 1984-ish control and elona is even drier thanks to Joko who seems to be enjoying his new garden in the crystal desert....

damn they really made a lot of S#!& hit the fan, sounds like it sucks to be humans anywhere but central Tyria...or Cantha...if you're into the whole semi-nazi thing...

lol but I still miss the biggest thing I want to find out about GW2 right now, CAN I PLAY AS A TENGU?!?!? :P

Nothing about Ascalon??!!!

Oh No! I thought it would be rebuilt finally

Or, worse, an Alliance / Horde thing.

It's so stupid to make the Charr "evil". I really hoped that in 250 years, the Charr and Humans would have an uneasy peace at least. Maybe the new Dragon threat will bring them together, but it certainly isn't helping to sell Charr in my book.


EDIT: Oh, by Balthazar, it's worse than I thought. Updated Ascalon History on top - read it if you dare.

Isn't Pyre the one that lead another assult on Ascalon after Eotn? After all they stopped believe in God and only believe in themself. And from what I see the charrs were one of those old-time bad guys with honor and morals, which made them almost one of the good guys. They still hate human, I guess.

I'm more interest in Adelbern and his final act to protect Ascalon though, isn't there a page where they said he summoned all of the dead spirit, Rurik, Anthea and all of the people that die there and turn them in to some kind of giant holy avenger spirit. And that spirit remain protecting ascalon for 200 years or something?

yep. It's a ghost city in the middle Charr territory, which expands all the way to the Crystal Desert now.

Frankly, I can't imagine playing a Charr if they're set up this way. And Pyre is an a-hole. Gwen should have killed him when she had the chance...

Crap, isn't most of this about missed opportunities? Opportunities we didn't even have a choice on? I never trusted Joko, and I know there are those that never trusted Pyre. This is the problem with online RPGs vs. paper ones... in the end, we control nothing. We are just NPCs...

Agree, I don't like the way the story is heading. I thought they would fix Ascalon by then and all the races are co-living uneasy but peacefully. Then team up against the Dragons or whoever the bad guy is.

It's like what we did weren't matter in GW1, save the mesmer but the world gone FUBAR anyway. And here I was, hoping that Joko would open a bar in Vabby, where he would do a stand up show every friday night.

Damn, poor ascolon never got a break, really sucks to be a prophecies character now

I really don't get the charr, I thought they started their crusade against humanity because of their religion...the religion that they threw out...twice...you'd think they'd find something better to do with their time once they realized the reasons they started this BS war are just that. Mind you the whole Pyre thing gave us a lot of insight into the Charr mindset but I still don't get why they are still so pissy

*sigh* at this rate the story will end up a kurzick/luxon (or worse alliance/horde) thing, the charr are gonna fight humans for the first while, then the dragons are gonna show up and then and only then will they stop their stupid fighting to avoid getting wiped out, it's like factions in tyria

well I personnaly don't mind. it's not as good as I hoped, but it wouldn't be the first let down in GW history.

as I see it, the odds are against us, we are in for a heck of an adventure

If you didnt go through with Jokos deal, Abaddon would of succeeded and Nightfall would of consumed the world. If you didnt help Pyre, the Vanguard would of been lost and the Destroyers would gain a victory in the Charr Homelands.

One way or another Tyria was set for disastor. GW1s Tyria is dominated by Humans. GW2 is going to throw that away and show that mankind is no longer the commanding species - and what better way to do it than set up disastors all over Tyria?.

The Charr were evil to begin with from our perspective.

Pyre pretty much shows his evil side constantly. One of his quotes shows he was proud of his father, Vatlaaw for helping to destroy Ascalon!. Once the Charr regained control Ascalon was a goner. I'm betting that player Charr will be the rouge Charr while the rest are enemies.

I'm very interested in the Sylvari now.

But it doesn't matter if a Charr is Rogue or not... as you say, they are evil.

I thought something would change in 250 years. But, no, Charr are evil, Norn are as isolated as ever, Asura are playing it safe, and Humans are screwed.


It's the only race I'm really interested in, ATM. Kind of a cross between Elves and Aliens...

I don't understand why everyone hates the story.... I think it does a great job of accomplishing the transition from a human-centered world to a multi-species world. We've got humans oppressing humans (Elona, I think), we've got humans oppressing non-humans (Cantha), and we've got humans offering a non-oppressive atmosphere to all species (Kryta). It's a pretty basic setup for mankind in that type of world.

Regarding the Charr.... This seems to be a sore spot for a lot of people, but I don't understand why. I'm rusty on my Guild Wars lore, but do we even know why the Charr are so intent on wiping out Ascalon? Might the Ascalonians have pushed them out of the land at some point? Granted, most of the Charr that we've seen have shown evil tendencies, but that doesn't rule out the possibility that they have been victims too. Also, in what way does the lore for GW2 show that the Charr are at war with the humans? It sounds to me like there aren't really any humans left in Ascalon. The Charr are really at war with the ghosts of Ascalon, not the humans (though the ghosts are human ghosts, but still...). I've seen no evidence that Kryta and the Charr have any hard feelings, and last I checked Kryta wasn't on the most friendly terms with Ascalon to begin with.

It doesn't sound to me like GW2 is being set up like the Luxon/Kurzick thing at all. Rather, what ANet is doing is setting up adversaries for each of the five races. The humans are struggling against the Centaurs and other human factions (Elona and Cantha), the Charr are struggling against the ghosts of Ascalon which I imagine are causing them a lot of grief, the Norn are struggling against the Dredge, the Asura are probably struggling to stay neutral and perhaps struggling against some new dangerous magic or something, and the Sylvari are struggling to grow and learn as a newborn species.

This all accomplishes what ANet said they wanted with small story arcs rather than one large linear story. I imagine once players complete all of those small arcs, though, the final arc will open up with all the races uniting against the dragons.

All in all, I have high hopes for GW2, and I think I'll enjoy the story a lot more than anything in GW1.

Besides, if there weren't chaos and destruction all throughout the world, the only quests we'd have would be to deliver pies and mail across the countryside like that LOTR MMO....

OK, I can see how my summary can be miscontrued. I love parts of the story: awakening dragons, Kryta's success, birth of the Sylvari, even the idea of the Asura as a "neutral" race.

The parts I hate are the "Doh!" parts everyone saw coming a mile ways: Joko re-conquering Elonia (although a green Crystal Desert is a nice twist... they'll have to change the name though. Crystal Lawn or something )

And I don't see why the Dredge have to be bad guys...

But, overall, not a bad launching pad.

Well, true, the humans pushed the Charr back and settled in their lands. So, I guess from that standpoint you could call the Humans the aggressors...

But the Charr have never offered peace with the Humans. If they offered peace, and were rejected, then they would have moral standing, see?

Instead, the surrounded Ascalon City and were about to destroy it, when Aldebern "ghosted" everyone. Also, in the Norn bit, it sounds like the Norns are allowing the Charr to raid Kryta. It also says the Norn have no love for the Krytans... (of course, as you note, neither did Aldebern).

Maybe the lesson here is that stubborn people never die... they just turn into ghosts and fight some more.

Agreed, but again, where are the Charr? Stuck in the past, fighting ghosts.

I guess my main complain is not that Charr are playable, just how they look like they will be set up. Maybe this is not what type of Charr we'll be playing at all. Who knows? All I'm doing is giving my honest reaction, in case Anet thinks it would be a good idea to have Charr that hate humans "LFG".

I hope that Anet has learned and we won't defeat the Dragons once and for all... only to face another bigger threat in 6 months. I want a perpetual world that makes sense, where we don't save the world from ever-more powerful creatures until it becomes a parody.

Well, agreed, and to be sure, my criticism is to try and make this story the best ever. It's still early, and hopefully the more problamatic elements can be fixed. But the foundation is solid, and if they do a really cool job on a Ghost Ascalon City... well, I might have to eat my words.

I think the story is a bit to much, everywhere there are things radically changing, dragons, extinction, more war.
But since they need to reshape the world for gw2 i guess thats the way to go.
I agree with Mordakai about not saving the world again, it gets so boring if all you do is save the world from ending every 5 minutes.
Its good being a hero, but a hero does not HAVE to save the world at every turn.
My favorite part was Palawa Joko, since he is by far the coolest character in all of GW, my first thought after releasing him was that i just reshaped the fate of Elona.
Palawa Joko for president!

The thing that I mostly hate about all this is, it sort of renders all of our "heroic" accomplishments and endeavours more or less futile.
Also the lore becomes kind of complicated and contradictory; the gods created Tyria [which gods?] and where were the dragons then?
TBH, I'd rather GW2 were a prequel rather than sequel to GW; exploring the pre-cataclysm Tyria and the geo-politics of the land back then with Orr and Arah still prospering...etc. etc.

Seeing as how this is the first piece of lore about GW2 to come out and that GW2 is years off, I am not going to complain about anything. They have time to fill us in on all these happenings.

Now, if they just left it at that and we couldnt get to cantha because of zombie pirates and a nazi emporer, ya I could see a problem. But I am sure there will be a ton of more info comming out in a year or so that fleshes out everything.

I really can't wait too hear more about the charr. Sure they are "evil" but thats all a point of view. Alberdern (?) would have dropped a meteorite on them if he had had the chance.

as cool as it sounds, you have a worst problem... you know how everything will turn out.

Much better to be in the future, and the unknown.

Now that seems to be the crux. Nothing any of our characters did matters for squat in GW2. VERY LAME.

And Kaening Center flunkies overthrowing the Luxons and Kurziks ROFLAMO.

Hmm, what was missed.

The Great Destroyer is a lackey of Primordus, albeit the strongest of the dragon's generals. His destruction set back Primordus' awakening by 2 generations. He wakes up pissed and creates some new creatures to do his bidding and has them run amok underground.

LA isn't quite destroyed, its just flooded and now lies in ruin. In addition to being the new guild home of the Balth priests, the corsairs that escaped the rise of Orr have also made it a pirate haven. The dragon that raised Orr also brought along with it the all the things that use to live there. They now work as its undead soldiers, patrolling its shores. Other ships that get too close are sunk and subsequently re-raised as an additional "black ship" helping to patrol Orr.

Usoka does not expel all non-humans. He instead kicks out(or silences) those that don't agree with him. Cantha becomes extremely isolationist and travel between Tyria and Cantha becomes scarce. With the addition of the Orr ships, Cantha has basically fallen off the map. Canthan travellers will occasionally wash up on Tyrian shores, but we learn little from them aside that Cantha is still there.

Dwarves are physically changed. They are no longer flesh and blood, but rather living stone. There are very few left around.

Thats all I can remember for now off the top of my head. I'll check again if anythings missing when I get home.

I think its been said before GW2 wont have a direct storyline. So you dont have to save the world - perhaps a storyline to take on the Corsairs and Undead that are plaguing the sea or a trip to Ascalon to attempt to give its spirits peace. There could be minor storylines if you want to take out the other dragons such as the one in Far Shiverpeaks. And the main save the world story could be bringing down Primordus itself.

Something i think would be cool is if they gave us the option to be good or bad. Say they realease a expansion to get to Elona - it would be great if our character got their and had the options of joining with the Order of Whispers or sideing with Joko and joining the rouge sunspears.

I think GW2s storylines could be promising.

been waiting for a chance to use this...


And it sounds like there'll be no Canthan characters in GW2, and that was what most of my characters are

I am liking the Cantha situtation, thought I don't see how the Kaineng people defeated the Luxons and the Kurzicks. If anything, the two would have allied to fight back. Not to mention it leaves room for pretty much a guaranteed expansion for cantha (I would hope).

My characters better be one of those ghosts in Ascalon killing charr. My character's decendents better be there helping out too.

I can't allow it.
All Wardens, Tengus, Turtles come and we shall bring the Fall of the Canthan Empire!
Muwahahahaha!
I think their will be a Drk and Light Sylvari, Sounds to Elvish^^.
Balthazar has helped the Ascalonions bring their Peace and Revenge!
Huzzah, Huzzah!
What a New Each, Draconians!
I wanna play, I wanna play^^!
What it's not playable?
Oh so its unsure yet^^.

I have an idea. How about the Norn go hunt the White Mantle. I'm so tired of their ugly armor selves...

~sniff~ What happened to the Tengu?

The Canthan expansion is very obvious. Although, I really hope Tengu are playable before then. I really would like my current Ranger to be connected to a Tengu Ranger instead of something else. Although, I really don't know how it works yet...

The story doesn't sound so bad. Some unexpected things. But also, some changes for changes sake things.

Dredge? Bad? Why?

Oh and by the way people! Stop doing the non-primary Joko quests! You're only hurting your descendants!!!

Your GW2 Charr ranger will inherit the accomplishments of your Legendary Defender of Ascalon/Protector of Tyria via the Hall of Monuments because that makes a lot of ... sense?

Having read over it myself, some thoughts have struck me...

Given that ANet has two centuries to play with, it seems that the destruction of Ascalon happened too fast...

Given that Adelburn wasn't exactly a spring chicken to begin with, that, more than anything else, seems to be devalueing the heroes' efforts - since unless Adelburn has some life-extending magic on him, he can reasonably be expected to die of old age before the heroes fall out of their prime. It feels disempowering that you have people who have defeated evil gods that can't manage to hold off an invasion of their homeland...

In my opinion, it would be better for such an event to occur a few decades after Adelburn's death (since it does make sense that Ascalon probably would eventually fall to the war of attrition) - with the 'ghost town' magic being performed either by Adelburn's ghost (I can see him sticking around after death acting as a protective spirit to the city...), one of his successors, or one of the mages around at the time. End result is the same, but it's not quite a slap in the face if it happens after it's obvious the heroes are no longer capable of stopping it.

I liked this quote from the first page. Guess I really need to start pimping out my Hall of Monuments because I have got to be a human now. Enemies all around that need to be fought off and one of the best ways to save the human race doesn't even involve a sword.

I totally agree.

No way my Character and Gwen would let this happen...

How does feel community? How does it feel? You cried to the fact you hated certain elements in the game like Cantha and Elona, so you got what you wanted. You praised things like Glint; now we get big evil (*gasp*) dragons. Anyone wants to take the test of your dragon knowledge 101? I know some of you D&D fans are already eagerly raising your hands. Don’t you all feel like a grain of salt? All of your work and progress were for naught.

A-net you took this “play” right out of George Lucas handbook of story telling (only ten times destructive). "The Empire Strikes Back," indeed. It looks like your pre-searing loving worked against you all. To see Tyria (the world) when it was in its glory days, you have to go back to GW 1 (how ironic).

So let me start to the my main ideas/opinions to each continent.

Tyria

Starting with this new great nemesis, Primordus; let’s see I am thinking the motivation of the Titans (if they finished their job in Tyria) and the power (ten times that) of Abaddon. Guess who is going to ask for your help? It would be the Gods of Tyria who are going to need your help again. It seems that no new light was shed upon Dhuum or Menzies, who have seemed to take the back seat yet again.

As for Kryta new leadership as a queen: how much do you want to make a bet she wielding the Scepter of Orr? Also to the fact she might be Livia’s descendant? If she turns into a Lich Queen, I will… just… be... so angry.

I believe Glint’s dead now, but her children live on. Probably they will become potential allies in the fight ahead. However for this fight, I have a feeling most part of the Crystal Desert will be cut off from the GW 2 populace once again.

What happened in Ascalon is no big surprise considering King Adelbern's mentality during the time period. It’s kind of comparison to the Vizier Khilbron, and what he did to save/destroy his people. (sarcasm) It’s not like we have enough ruins to through now. (sarcasm) I think they should come up with an archaeologist profession.

BTW the whole Ancient evil Dragon thing has to be the absolute last dirty little secret of the gods. I will say they better have a really good explanation to this whole debacle; not like the Great Destroyer lore which was an absolute failure. Background information is a must for these guys now. I am still waiting on the explanation about the Seer’s and their war with the Mursaat.

Cantha

Well the Galactic Empire has…. Err I mean the Cantha Empire seems to had enough of this petty feuding factions. Can you say your voice was heard about AB and Faction part being a failure in your eyes? It seems to me the only reason why the emperor would do something like this, if his body got taken over by a demon/specter. We may get to fight an old nemesis yet again. However this time his plan will not fail.

Elona

Land of the green crystal and Kane… Opps, I mean Palawa Joko is up to his devious ways yet again. This is another reason why I see the Crystal Desert being somewhat cut off again. Palawa most likely extended his reach into Tyria itself. I can’t believe Palawa is more worried about the Sunspears and Turai Ossa’s ancestors, then about the hero’s ancestors who are more likely to send him back to oblivion.

Well it looks like here are our two expansions. We have to wait till after GW 2 is released before more detail probably will ever circulate about these past lands. However did anybody in the community really care? I know I did.

The race issues continue (no not that kind).

About the Sylvari; again very disappointed that there was more information here then in the game. How much do you want to bet they are the ones to bring all the race issues to an end? They are supposedly the key race in GW2. Now I can see why; no one trusts each other (go figure). So these peace loving species will just have to spurt out saying shuch as, “why can’t we all just get along?” *shudders at the thought cliché idea’s already*

Honestly I like to see a morality system now in GW, since this is going in such a dark direction. I want consequences to my action, either be good, evil, or neutral.