PCGamer's Ultimate GW2 Spoilers

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

23 Sep 2007 at 01:08 - 81
The worst thing about the destruction of Ascalon is this is that even Jeff Strain admitted it was a mistake to destroy the players "home base."

http://www.guildwars.com/events/trad...7/gcspeech.php

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Strain
The importance of giving players a home was a lesson we learned with Guild Wars. Players start out in the Kingdom of Ascalon, an idyllic, beautiful land of vivid colors and gentle landscapes. Early in the game, Ascalon is destroyed in an event known as the Searing, and players find themselves playing through a blasted, dreary landscape of ruins and mud. While this certainly added a sense of drama and loss to the story, players were upset that they could not go back to Ascalon, because it had become their home in the game. In each new campaign, and even more so with the upcoming Eye of the North expansion, we were careful to establish "home" very early and maintain it as a sanctuary for players.
So, now, adding Insult to inury, not only is Ascalon as we know it destroyed, it's in the hands of our mortal enemies: The Charr.

Does Jeff Strain really expect us to make Charr characters just to see Ascalon again?

6am3 Fana71c

6am3 Fana71c

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

23 Sep 2007 at 02:05 - 82
Calm down, people. There's still plenty of time 'till GW2. Many thing can change.

Kashrlyyk

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

23 Sep 2007 at 04:42 - 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by sindex
snip
As far as I know the HoM will be locked, when GW2 is released.

menti

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Sep 2007

gangstatown, USA

Kneegrows

R/Me

23 Sep 2007 at 05:33 - 84
I like the idea with the Ring of Fire. It must look gaannngster. That sucks about the dwarves...I liked those guys. I don't get how the White Mantle would still be around if the royal family is back in Kryta. Maybe perhaps that giant piece of land to the north of Kryta is a hiding place for the White Mantle. Ho hem. Perhaps GW2 is going to put that entire northwestern area to use.

Metal Herc

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2007

23 Sep 2007 at 05:45 - 85
What I think people are failing to realize is 250 years have passed. Thats a long time. Canada hasn't even been around that long. Lot's can change. Look at a map of europe from 1757. I can guarantee you that there will be countries on there that don't exist anymore and the borders will be very different.

Bankai

Bankai

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Bubblegum Dragons

Mo/E

23 Sep 2007 at 07:48 - 86
There is a simple reason why the Charr invaded Ascalon. Ascalon and its neighbourhood once belonged to the Charr, not the Humans. They just want it back. If it were the humans who lived in the north, and Charr taking over Ascalon, this move would've been perfectly justified, wouldn't it?

dark_prince2023

dark_prince2023

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

W/Mo

23 Sep 2007 at 11:17 - 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk
As far as I know the HoM will be locked, when GW2 is released.
Nope you can still get to it via GW1 even after you purchase GW2 and link them together so essentially you can change your future by playing the past.

draxynnic

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

23 Sep 2007 at 11:31 - 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6am3 Fana71c
Calm down, people. There's still plenty of time 'till GW2. Many thing can change.
True. The storyline in the Guild Wars alpha around 2003 is almost completely unrecognisable compared to what came out in Prophecies. They're a little more restricted now because it has to be built off estabolished canon, but what's in the press now isn't set in stone (I think some of the completely-overhauled storyline from back then was referenced in the press of the day, too).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
-We'll forget for a second that you can't divert a river that flows south so that it flows north instead; why would Palawa Joko even WANT the Crystal Desert to become a lush and fertile landscape? He's Undead, he's not a kitten. Wow.
To control the food supplies. He's turned the human-held areas into a desert and his own into a garden... that means that any of the living that wish to remain that way have to either try to take the (heavily fortified, naturally) land from him or accept his rule. The attempt to do the former is probably how the Sunspears got themselves wiped out.

Quote:
-How can it be remotely possible that the White Mantle are still around over 200 years after their Mursaat leaders were exposed as false gods? Livia even gets her hands on the Scepter of Orr (somehow), and you KNOW she's gonna use it against them sometime between now and then. It's just not even legitimately possible that they're still fighting back.
They're probably the equivalent of the Royalists in presearing Ascalon. Everyone but them knows they've lost, and they aren't a major threat, but they're still causing trouble. Good for characters in the single-digit levels to cut their teeth on.

Quote:
-This one isn't even a question: There is no possible way that the shithole that is Kaineng's sprawling city somehow produces an army capable of soundly defeating the combined might of the VERY battle-honed Luxons and Kurzicks. Come on, seriously.
Actually, you've just explained exactly how.

When you think about it, it's actually kind of inevitible. You have an overpopulated city FULL of people eager for more living space (given that sprawling city is about the size of either the Echovald Forest or the Jade Sea individually, the population is probably at least two or three times that of the Luxons and Kurzicks combined). Until recently, the temptation to expand has been restrained by facing other threats (Shiro, the Tengu Wars, and maybe other problems before them) and by the inhospitality of the alternatives. Then, suddenly, those lands start healing, the inhabitants are still busy fighting each other, and there's no heroes this time around to tell them to get their act together and form an alliance. Easy pickings.

Incidentally, it's worth noting that the statement that Cantha is cut off doesn't necassarily mean it's innaccessible, even right from the start. How many RPGs do you know where you're told that you can't get to X but eventually manage to find a way? Possibly through those tunnels the Dredge dug

Quote:
-So only 60 measly years after the order of whispers saves the world from a deranged god and helps bring Kormir to divinity, the ENTIRETY of the Sunspear Order is nearly gone? What?
See above.

It's even possible that those 'dark Sunspears' we hear about are actually no such thing - they're only pretending to be working for him while looking out for a chance to bring him down.

Quote:
-There are a lot of different questions I could ask about the Charr, but I won't bother. They have a long way to go to explain why the Charr would still be invading the wasteland that is Ascalon over 200 years later. And as far as Adlebern goes... what is this guy, like a billion years old? Gtfo.
He's a ghost, I'd guess. But as previously noted, this is my main beef - the implication is that it happens at a time the heroes should have been around to object. Strenuously.

BenjZee

BenjZee

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

The Overacheivers [Club]

Mo/

23 Sep 2007 at 17:12 - 89
this sounds sooo cool.
the lore sounds really good especially when i read the part about the undead corsairs who roam the fire islands. Then they mention something about stopping people goin to cantha. lol
the lions arch part really surprised me and the fact we have a Queen

This is going to be so amazing, i do like the whole sylvari ideas. They are ageless keep old lores. Making sure the human history isnt lost is a major part in the story by the looks of things.
Im deffently making an asura.
Non Humans fleeing because kisu died. this is weird. If we can still be humans, we better watch ourselves.

So, we did our best all those years and it wasn't good enough ... i wander where old Malenko and his fellowship of heroes went to? A young asura whos going to continue where they left off....and how did he become related is beyond me.
Maybe our characters just became too old, they would rather not be ressed as they are still fragile and weak. whatever happens i know this will end up to be an amazing game.

wetsparks

wetsparks

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

23 Sep 2007 at 19:45 - 90
Quote:
Quote:
-This one isn't even a question: There is no possible way that the shithole that is Kaineng's sprawling city somehow produces an army capable of soundly defeating the combined might of the VERY battle-honed Luxons and Kurzicks. Come on, seriously.
Actually, you've just explained exactly how.

When you think about it, it's actually kind of inevitible. You have an overpopulated city FULL of people eager for more living space (given that sprawling city is about the size of either the Echovald Forest or the Jade Sea individually, the population is probably at least two or three times that of the Luxons and Kurzicks combined). Until recently, the temptation to expand has been restrained by facing other threats (Shiro, the Tengu Wars, and maybe other problems before them) and by the inhospitality of the alternatives. Then, suddenly, those lands start healing, the inhabitants are still busy fighting each other, and there's no heroes this time around to tell them to get their act together and form an alliance. Easy pickings.

Incidentally, it's worth noting that the statement that Cantha is cut off doesn't necassarily mean it's innaccessible, even right from the start. How many RPGs do you know where you're told that you can't get to X but eventually manage to find a way? Possibly through those tunnels the Dredge dug
Another thought on that note, the Luxons and Kurzicks have been fighting each other for generations, how many people do they still have left? And a country short on space with lots of people that they see as "expendable" (like the way the west sees China right now) can easily make a big army that is capable of taking out the Luxons and Kurzicks who would not only be busy fighting each other while the Canthan army is attacking them from behind. So the Canthans would only be fighting part of the army.

Lao-Azi

Lao-Azi

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Sep 2007

Rise from the Ashes (phnx)

Me/Mo

24 Sep 2007 at 01:21 - 91
Well, if everything were peaceful, the game wouldn't have much for us to do, now would it?

This is a bigger pile of feces than I'd have expected, but... I can't say I'm upset.

One thing I do find odd is the whole Palawa Joko bit, even back into Nightfall. Where the hell did we start following the undead bastard? Did the fact that he tried to conquer Vabbi just sort of drop out of our memories when we work with him? Well, enemy of my enemy is my friend, I suppose, but it never sat well with me.

Yes, this has no relevance to GW2. What?

Anyway, when is this issue in stores? The 25th? Or is it out?

Frostlight

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2006

24 Sep 2007 at 02:58 - 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
The worst thing about the destruction of Ascalon is this is that even Jeff Strain admitted it was a mistake to destroy the players "home base."

http://www.guildwars.com/events/trad...7/gcspeech.php

So, now, adding Insult to inury, not only is Ascalon as we know it destroyed, it's in the hands of our mortal enemies: The Charr.

Does Jeff Strain really expect us to make Charr characters just to see Ascalon again?
Sure, Jeff is going to give the human players a home... in Kryta. In fact, the GW2 article makes it clear they're deliberately creating homelands for each of the playable races.

If we go by GW:EN as an indicator of their upcoming game design, Ascalon City will probably be a challenge mission to defeat wave after wave of Charr, for points towards the human faction title track and armor pieces for your "sidekick".

Which begs the question... what makes GW2 a game that GW1 PvE players will care enough to move onto as a sequel?

- Your characters? dead.
- Other major NPC characters? also dead.
- The fate of the world and the various nations? whether you like the future or not, imo it is not really that relevant to what happened in GW1. Cataclysms and lore revisionism (no, this stuff you've never heard of is even more ancient than anything so far, oh and by the way we're going drop a nuke here and there)
- Hall of Monuments? I guess there might be some people will buy GW2 because they've stashed some destroyer weaopns in it, but I haven't met any of them.
- The gameplay? mostly different, along with elements being introduced in the past 6 months, i.e. title track grind tied to PvE skills, armor, what have you.
- Or, will the name Guild Wars 2 be enough by itself?

From the information we have so far, it seems to me they're very excited to create a brand new game, but caring little about the continuity and ties to GW1. And this has nothing to with whether the future is bleak or not - good novel writers should be able to leverage the existing lore rather than to abandon it as what seems to be happening here.

Well, unless you're really interested in Charr ecology and sociology. Then you'll be pumped I'm sure.

arsie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2007

N/

24 Sep 2007 at 06:18 - 93
Lets put aside the issue of whether current GW lore is good or not, and whether the future GW2 lore will be good or not. All those are subjective issues, some people like it, and some people will not.

The undeniable fact is that this change is probably the most extreme case of a company changing all of its existing lore. You may argue that these are but logical extentions to the current story line, but never in my experience of story worlds, whether RPG, computer games, or novels, have I seen such wholesale overturning of existing lore.

Sure some things change with time, but quite frankly, many things stay the same. Technology might change, but attitudes and personalities remain the same. For most gaming world evolution, its usually the opposite.

One look at EQ2 and one can see almost direct parallels. The hope is that this being so in Anet's face, that they would attempt to avoid the same mistake.

So why the wholesale change of lore? If you think GW lore was weak to begin with, then you'll probably think their writers are weak. That might be one explanation of the wholesale change. Poor writers making poor decisions.

If you like GW lore so far, then it must be puzzling why they would throw out most of their own work. Perhaps their hands were forced, that in order to get funding for GW2, Anet might have needed to compromise creative control to others who think they know better about writing MMO lore.

New head-writer on the job, who feels that the only way to justify his own existence is to neuter his predecessor's work.

While some people says that its early days, and not to worry, I think that the story ideas and game mechanic principles have already been decided upon. Otherwise they'll never be able to meet their deadlines.

Sure, some small details might change along the way, but I think this will be it. The broad ideas are pretty much carved in stone.

One thing for certain, the storyline as is, completely disregards all the efforts and achievements of the current GW1 player. GW2 will probably be a compelling gaming world for someone who is new to the new lore, but GW1 players will have to go into it knowing that everything they did in the game did not make the world a better place, even in the slightest.

It would have been nice if we actually did bring about 250 years of relative peace and happiness in the world, but that does not seem to be the case now. Enjou Pre-Searing, it keeps going downhill from there.

draxynnic

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

24 Sep 2007 at 07:55 - 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsie
The undeniable fact is that this change is probably the most extreme case of a company changing all of its existing lore. You may argue that these are but logical extentions to the current story line, but never in my experience of story worlds, whether RPG, computer games, or novels, have I seen such wholesale overturning of existing lore.
I dunno - I think Blizzard still has it beat with the Warcraft universe.

doinchi

doinchi

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Singapore

Sheperd of Souls

W/Mo

24 Sep 2007 at 09:10 - 95
I think the storyline is awesome so far. The first RPGs I've played were the KOTOR series and I've always liked playing the "underdog" character, not some prince or king something.

I think the new Dark and Gritty, Post(Pre?) Apocalytic scenario is very refreshing.

drekmonger

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

A/E

24 Sep 2007 at 14:07 - 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsie
It would have been nice if we actually did bring about 250 years of relative peace and happiness in the world, but that does not seem to be the case now.
Yes.

The cataclysm could/should be in the moment of GW2 -- the semi-lame Legendary Dragons arise just a few years prior to game start. That creates more drama and outcome uncertainty, while still giving players invested in GW1 the idea that their character's actions made a differences. They bought 200 years of peace. (and it also suggests that to the players of GW2 that their efforts won't be erased when it comes time for GW3).

The fall of the Luxons, Kurzicks, peoples of Ascalon and the Sunspears could then easily be explained as each faction going soft because of these 200 years of peace. For example:

After generations of watching Joko play nice and heal the Crystal Desert, the Sunspears aren't prepared the resurrected Drought and Hunger being unleashed into the heart of Elona. The Sunspears are mostly pushed back to Istan, where they are doomed by a tsunami caused by the rising of Orr. Most of the surviving Sunspears flee to Joko's "hospitality" and have become his servants -- under the mistaken impression that Joko will help to free Elona proper.

The at-peace Kurzicks and Luxons don't have the martial edge to beat back a newly ascendant Emperor's armies. To tie it into the Dragon inspired cataclysm, perhaps the new Emperor is literally a Legendary Dragon reincarnated in a human body. Once the Luxons and Kurizicks are pacified, The Dragon Emperor expels all foreigners, cuts off trade, and begins a new Tengu War (which is more like a wholesale slaughter).

The people of Ascalon havn't had need for a large army or a big Wall anymore. And so when the Mursaat or Dragon underlings come back to play, they have to resort to calling up the vengeful dead from the first Searing (including General Gwen and Price Rurik) for defense.

-- resulting in a second Searing, and a massive army of angry ghosts that will never believe that some of the Charr tribes have been allies of Ascalon for 175 years.

Point is, the accomplishments of GW1 don't have to be erased to create the situations of GW2. The game restarts when the strife restarts.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

24 Sep 2007 at 14:32 - 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsie
The undeniable fact is that this change is probably the most extreme case of a company changing all of its existing lore. You may argue that these are but logical extentions to the current story line, but never in my experience of story worlds, whether RPG, computer games, or novels, have I seen such wholesale overturning of existing lore.
The problem is, it really doesn't change much at all. I have no problem with a Cataclysm, and with continued strife and war. That I expect.

I guess what pisses me off the most, it's threats our Characters either dealt with (or were not allowed to deal with) that end up causing the most harm:

Palawa Joko. The Charr.

The fact that these are the entities that kill off the Sunspears and Ascalon, just rubs salt in the wound. If you're gonna re-write the lore, that's fine, re-write it. Don't re-use existing threats 250 years later... that just seems like cheap recycling to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drekmonger

The people of Ascalon havn't had need for a large army or a big Wall anymore. And so when the Mursaat or Dragon underlings come back to play, they have to resort to calling up the vengeful dead from the first Searing (including General Gwen and Price Rurik) for defense.

-- resulting in a second Searing, and a massive army of angry ghosts that will never believe that some of the Charr tribes have been allies of Ascalon for 175 years.

Point is, the accomplishments of GW1 don't have to be erased to create the situations of GW2. The game restarts when the strife restarts.
That's an awesome idea! That's a great way to recycle stuff, but still keeping it "new". (although I know many players will not want to see Ghost Gwen, so maybe not).

phan

phan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

phantasmagoria

24 Sep 2007 at 14:36 - 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Noran
-Why do you strive so hard to "make up" your "own races"? Seriously, you can just call the Sylvari Elves, and the Charr Orcs, and the Asura Goblins (or Gnomes I suppose, if you wanted), and the Norn Vikings. No one would care. If you're not going to do that, you should come up with a new name for the Undead and then pretend you invented reanimated skeletons that have personalities.

I don't agree with this .. at least anet thinks about new things .. else it would just be wow .. i havent seen an orc in the last past 10 seconds .. now we fight big hairy creatures .. and sylvari elves ? come on a tree = elf Oo ??

phan

phan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

phantasmagoria

24 Sep 2007 at 14:39 - 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by wetsparks
Another thought on that note, the Luxons and Kurzicks have been fighting each other for generations, how many people do they still have left? And a country short on space with lots of people that they see as "expendable" (like the way the west sees China right now) can easily make a big army that is capable of taking out the Luxons and Kurzicks who would not only be busy fighting each other while the Canthan army is attacking them from behind. So the Canthans would only be fighting part of the army.

This doesn't make sense cuz .. the luxon and kurzick [combined] only take 1/5 of the map .. what about all the areas we cant go with our chars .. but it's still there isn't it .. ?

Etta

Etta

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Mancland, British Empire

24 Sep 2007 at 15:30 - 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by doinchi
The first RPGs I've played were the KOTOR series and I've always liked playing the "underdog" character, not some prince or king something.
Ah then you knew, who your main character really is in KOTOR, is he an underdog? I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
The problem is, it really doesn't change much at all. I have no problem with a Cataclysm, and with continued strife and war. That I expect.
The thing is if I want a Cataclysm setting, I would go play Fall out 3. I know the game is still at least 2 years away and anything could happen in that time. I just hate the idea of the world just gone back to square one after the heroes save it time and time again.

If only Kevin Smith is the GW2 story writer. lol

Croix_Raul

Croix_Raul

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

Me/

24 Sep 2007 at 16:08 - 101
Throw money into the sky lets see if it will go up in smoke

Gw2

A completely new lore or this case almost till the level of sci fi
-Not sure if old school PvE player can accept this huge lore changes

Sylvari elves oh cool we can be beautiful green alien elves
-personally really dislike green color as whole
-First thing to come to mind is mum asking me to eat veg's lol seriously don't think it will go down well with kids lol
-if ur going to give us an elf please look at other nicer color why not have some djinn player able race that are nicely designed then this uber green alien elf ...

Charr might be more popular due its predator like appearance symbolic with strength and feared animal traits

Asura err i dunno man not sure many like being little green mens with sharp teeth
-will not comment on why they created gnome hybrid or from some cartoon "Real cute man XD" as npc they are ok but as player character forget it....i Don't need another gnome mage from WoW

There is so many popular race around why mess with success and go on another project X not everyday is sunday. The foundation are there really can't understand why they can't improve the current rather then opt for a revamp from scratch

The Shelf

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2007

R/Me

24 Sep 2007 at 17:22 - 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etta
I just hate the idea of the world just gone back to square one after the heroes save it time and time again.
You mean like real life? Our heroes saved the world from destruction. They never brought significant peace to anything. They just saved it all from destruction. In that regard, our efforts were not in vain. However, people will be people, so peace will never last more than a little while. I mean, look at Kryta. We saved it from destruction, but according to Livia it is still under civil war. If nothing bad happened between GW1 and GW2, I would have thought that was utterly cliche. Congrats to ANet for going against the grain a little.

Hyper Cutter

Hyper Cutter

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Knights of the White Eye [HINA]

24 Sep 2007 at 19:29 - 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shelf
I mean, look at Kryta. We saved it from destruction, but according to Livia it is still under civil war.
iirc, we're indirectly responsible for the civil war because the broke the White Mantle (not thoroughly enough, apparently) and gave the Shining Blade the chance to take back Kryta...

Metal Herc

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2007

24 Sep 2007 at 19:42 - 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shelf
You mean like real life? Our heroes saved the world from destruction. They never brought significant peace to anything. They just saved it all from destruction. In that regard, our efforts were not in vain. However, people will be people, so peace will never last more than a little while. I mean, look at Kryta. We saved it from destruction, but according to Livia it is still under civil war. If nothing bad happened between GW1 and GW2, I would have thought that was utterly cliche. Congrats to ANet for going against the grain a little.
Exactly. WW1 was the war to end all wars. Then a few years later WW2 broke out. That war should have ended wars, it didnt. We have had conflict after conflict.

In 250 years it only makes sense that things change ALOT.

Sure we stopped the Lich King. The Humans were still at war with the charr for what, another 6 years untill EOTN (which they are still at war with, but pyre is leading a civil war). The lich is dead, the human race doesnt suddenly repopulate. Throw in a few more big bad guys and things SHOULDNT be looking good for us humans.

Of course the lore will have changed by GW2. Its 2 and a half centuries in the future. If you went forward in time that long, my bet is you wouldnt understand anything. Customs, countries, people etc. all change over time.

wetsparks

wetsparks

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

24 Sep 2007 at 20:56 - 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by phan
This doesn't make sense cuz .. the luxon and kurzick [combined] only take 1/5 of the map .. what about all the areas we cant go with our chars .. but it's still there isn't it .. ?
What about it? Cantha has a lot of people stuffed into a (relatively) small place. Can't get more land from the sea, can't take away the farm land from the noobie island or else the people will starve, so you go south and fight the Kurzicks and Luxons.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

24 Sep 2007 at 21:19 - 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal Herc
Of course the lore will have changed by GW2. Its 2 and a half centuries in the future. If you went forward in time that long, my bet is you wouldnt understand anything. Customs, countries, people etc. all change over time.
Migration, migration, migration.

I was pissed to hear that Ascalon will no longer the occupied by humans, but that's the way the word works: people move, especially in the face of world-changing events (like the Searing and Cataclysm).

Kryta is humans new home now. I'm beginning to accept it.

Onarik Amrak

Onarik Amrak

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2007

Astral Revenants

P/W

24 Sep 2007 at 22:14 - 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Migration, migration, migration.

I was pissed to hear that Ascalon will no longer the occupied by humans, but that's the way the word works: people move, especially in the face of world-changing events (like the Searing and Cataclysm).

Kryta is humans new home now. I'm beginning to accept it.
And Cantha! Possibly all of Cantha by the looks of it...

Ari Kela

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Sep 2007

Mo/Me

25 Sep 2007 at 01:57 - 108
Wow. And here was I think the guildwars community was less whiny and immature than the Warcraft one ><

If you don't like the story, that's fine. But Guild Wars is actually pretty original as far as magical fantasy goes, and it's impressively realistic too- people die, there is war and suffering, and it doesn't all magically disappear when you defeat the lone villain. Races don't just get along just because they're introduced to each other, there has to be tact, effort, respect, and diplomacy involved. The layers continue deeper as we find out more and more of the world's backstory.

Most of the complaints here come down to a matter of personal taste. "I don't like Dragons" or "I don't like Elves and Silvari are too similar". Don't expect that the story will be a massive failure just because it doesn't cater directly to your tastes.

Finally, remember, all that's been revealed so far is basically backstory. I think it's slightly rude to rail at that while you're really only guessing the rest.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

25 Sep 2007 at 03:17 - 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Kela
Finally, remember, all that's been revealed so far is basically backstory. I think it's slightly rude to rail at that while you're really only guessing the rest.
This is good to keep it mind. All stories sound like crap when reduced to basic plot elements. The details will make or break GW2.

After the initial shock has worn off, I must admit, this is not a bad premise. And there are so many questions left to be answered:

Who are the gods that Humans worship? What is their relationship to the Dragons? And can Palawa Joko take a joke?

Onarik Amrak

Onarik Amrak

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2007

Astral Revenants

P/W

25 Sep 2007 at 03:50 - 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Kela
Wow. And here was I think the guildwars community was less whiny and immature than the Warcraft one ><

If you don't like the story, that's fine. But Guild Wars is actually pretty original as far as magical fantasy goes, and it's impressively realistic too- people die, there is war and suffering, and it doesn't all magically disappear when you defeat the lone villain. Races don't just get along just because they're introduced to each other, there has to be tact, effort, respect, and diplomacy involved. The layers continue deeper as we find out more and more of the world's backstory.

Most of the complaints here come down to a matter of personal taste. "I don't like Dragons" or "I don't like Elves and Silvari are too similar". Don't expect that the story will be a massive failure just because it doesn't cater directly to your tastes.

Finally, remember, all that's been revealed so far is basically backstory. I think it's slightly rude to rail at that while you're really only guessing the rest.
Probably the best post by a pre-searing cadet, ever.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

25 Sep 2007 at 03:55 - 111
The rest of the story is up at http://www.pcgamer.com/archives/2007...-_ultimat.html

I revised the first post (including the full Ascalon section, which sounds much better. Oh, what the hell, I'll post it here to so you don't have to click back to page one to reference:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GW2 History
For centuries, humans dominated the continent of Tyria, but over the last 250 yeras that has changed. Humanity clings by a thread, maintaining its cities only through the absolute dedication of its armies. Ascalon City fell. Rin belongs to the Charr. Lion's Arch, inundated by tidal waves, was rebuilt by the mercenary guilds, and Orr . . . rose into undeath and corruption.

The gods of the humans have been notably distant these past two centuries, withdrawing into silence even as the world beneath them shattered. Although they still answer prayers, they do not intervene—even as Tyria crumbles and the human race calls out desperately for heroes to save them from their darkening struggle.

Ascalon

Having lost their homeland to the Charr, the humans of the Ascalon kingdom have been pushed ever west and south. The Great Northern Wall fell, and Ascalon City lies in ruins. The royal line of Adelbern ended with the death of Prince Rurik. The lone remaining human fortress in Ascalon lies at the far southern tip, where the eastern Blazeridge Mountains merge with the western Shiverpeaks. This last Ascalonian fortress, known as Ebonhawke, stands alone against all the might the Charr legions have to offer.

The continuing conflict between the humans and the Charr along the borders of Ascalon forced the humans ever farther into the Shiverpeaks. Although open war has ended save on a few small fronts, the hatred between the Charr legions and the human kingdoms never abated. If anything, it is worse than ever before. Ebonhawke stands alone in defiance, supplied by an Asura gate from Krytan territories.

The Charr solidified their control over Ascalon from their original lands in the north all the way south to the merging of the two mountain ranges at the edge of the Crystal Desert. Within the main territories of Ascalon, between the broken Great Northern Wall and the fortress of Ebonhawke, the Charr rule—but not unchallenged. In the last battle of Ascalon City, Adelbern used the final power of his enchanted sword, Magdaer, a relic from the age when the True Gods walked Tyria and built the city of Arah.

The stories told by the Charr (and the few, scattered human survivors of the battle) speak of a gout of sword-shaped flame rising from the highest tower in the city. After a white, burning heat swept the city streets, the dead and defeated Ascalonian guard arose once more, their spirits animated by the power of Adelbern's sword. In the face of this spectral resistance, the Charr were forced to abandon the city.

Since that time, the spectral soldiers have guarded the ruins of Ascalon City and the eastern frontier. They resist the Charr, but do not communicate with living soldiers from Ebonhawke. Their spirits are only memories, the lingering presence of a past that cannot let go of the present. Some believe that one day, when the rightful king of Ascalon returns with one of the two flaming swords—either Adelbern’s Magdaer or his son's, named Sohothin—the legion will abandon the city and sink at last into peaceful death. Until then, everyone is the enemy.
Ebonhawke has World PvP written all over it... can't wait to battle you Charr lovers there!

natuxatu

natuxatu

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Wisconsin

Rt/Mo

25 Sep 2007 at 05:10 - 112
I think it will work. It's a little cliche sure but with for example a dragon causing meance underground by creating evil creatures ect as explained in the magazine... at least there is a reason we are killing stuff. Now for example we are going into areas or dungeons and killing aimless stuff with no reason for being there (that we know of.)

So... I think the dragon plot device will work nicely.. especially for casual gamers because we will have an easy understanding of what is going on in the world.

Few random points.

1) Hope the Tengu become playable.
2) Wish Ascalon was either a thriving Human city or a thriving Charr city.. just wish it was thriving.

I guess those are my two big issues at the moment.

BahamutKaiser

BahamutKaiser

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Heightened state of mind.

P/W

25 Sep 2007 at 06:11 - 113
I think it makes plenty of sense that the world is totally reshaped after the next 250 years. This helps redevelop the locations and experiences you will have in a new MMO version of the game instead of continuing like another chapter. It is also good that humans have started to lose power and other races have become more dominant since these new races will be characters to play with, it would be kind of shallow if there was only a small homeland for all of the demi-human races because the world is still primarily human.

It also makes sense that Cantha and Elona are cut off, since they will not be in the release and a reason for not being able to reach them needs to be developed, chances are that they will open up as locations to explore and challenge in expansions, but for now, they are unreachable, and matters nearby will take up players interest.

The desolation of Ascolon is really just vindication for Ruriks decision, he knew Ascolon was a lost cause, and his father decided to die there and forever damn the city since he couldn't win it back, they should have left together.

And this is just a backdrop for the new game, whatever "present" developments can rearrange what our characters will be pursuing during the gameplay, so it's possible for unfriendly races to get together for a common goal.

It all pretty much comes together to reposition the existence in GW for the sequel. With a new world comes much more room for expansion and redevelopment, instead of trying to rehash the existing game. I think when you look at it by what would make the game most elaborate instead of what we are most attached to right now, it makes plenty of sense.

I'm concerned about my precious tengu though, I wonder where they are now that they are exiled from Cantha? I hope they invade Cantha and take back their lands.

I could care less for the locations that exist in GW1, they really don't mean much to me, I'm more concerned about the races we will get to play, and hopefully more beyond that, like Tengu and Centaur.

wetsparks

wetsparks

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

25 Sep 2007 at 06:30 - 114
Earlier in this thread people were talking about, what happened to our characters and why would they let this happen. I think I found the answer to that in the magazine (which I picked up a few hours ago). Even though I can't find the exact quote at the moment, it was along the lines of the Charr finally get semi organized and started invading Ascalon in a coordinated attack until finally only Ascalon City was left, that the heroes of Ascalon fought valiantly but the Charr finally broke through the walls and instead of letting the Charr take over the city Adlebern used the spell to wipe everything out and bring the spirits of the dead to defend the place from the Charr.

sindex

sindex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

California

Swords of Night & Day [SWRD]

25 Sep 2007 at 07:46 - 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Kela
Wow. And here was I think the guildwars community was less whiny and immature than the Warcraft one ><

If you don't like the story, that's fine. But Guild Wars is actually pretty original as far as magical fantasy goes, and it's impressively realistic too- people die, there is war and suffering, and it doesn't all magically disappear when you defeat the lone villain. Races don't just get along just because they're introduced to each other, there has to be tact, effort, respect, and diplomacy involved. The layers continue deeper as we find out more and more of the world's backstory.

Most of the complaints here come down to a matter of personal taste. "I don't like Dragons" or "I don't like Elves and Silvari are too similar". Don't expect that the story will be a massive failure just because it doesn't cater directly to your tastes.

Finally, remember, all that's been revealed so far is basically backstory. I think it's slightly rude to rail at that while you're really only guessing the rest.
Have you ever heard the term déjà vu or to that fact irony? For it seems to be pointed out throughout the entire campaign series of Guild Wars. The whole, “we are strong brave survivors of violent times and we smite the evil down” gets really old. Especially when you throw in the cliché idea’s that go nowhere, except gets you back to “square one.”

I understand from your PoV that Lore is truly up to the writers to dish out. However does not a critic look at a film, literature, play, and excreta to review its quality? This negative feedback is nothing more then a sharing of ideas into what works, and does not work for the current state of GW’s lore. I mean there is a good chance some of this will change overtime, but I doubt it.

GW lore has always kind of been on the shallow side, never really finishing what it started. Some questions are left up in the air, until people actually stop caring; then they resurrect that plot again. Gwen was a perfect example of this, in which it took an awful long time before some of her questions (not all) were answered. I am guessing if they kept at the campaign marketing module, we probably would not have seen her till the end of that next trilogy. Yet there still are unanswered questions to Menzies, Dhuum, Seer’s, Scarab Plague, Mursaat, Great Dwarf (individual), and so on.

Why people are upset to the fact of Dragon’s being the main menace of the next installment in the GW series? For it sounds really cliché at first glance. I mean there are so many fantasy plotlines that revolve around dragons being the foremost antagonist. Another thing is that the destructive nature of these villains always seems to follow a pattern of “destroy the world then take it over.” None of the villains of the GW series have ever had a unique personality, in which they do things from a different perspective. I think the way your able to get people interested into an antagonist, is for your audience to, “love to hate” that being.

arsie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2007

N/

25 Sep 2007 at 07:50 - 116
I wonder if GW players who use HoM will reappear in spectral form in Ascalon wearing 15k armour and wielding Destroyer weapons, shoulder to shoulder with their minipets.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

25 Sep 2007 at 11:40 - 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsie
I wonder if GW players who use HoM will reappear in spectral form in Ascalon wearing 15k armour and wielding Destroyer weapons, shoulder to shoulder with their minipets.
Ha! Now that would be awesome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by natuxatu
2) Wish Ascalon was either a thriving Human city or a thriving Charr city.. just wish it was thriving.
Well, it seems open that we may get a chance to redeem the ghosts if we find the sword or something.

Etta

Etta

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Mancland, British Empire

25 Sep 2007 at 11:56 - 118
A pair of the flaming swords......God I'm sure hope they didn't mean the FDS.

mazey vorstagg

mazey vorstagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Nodnol

Meeting of Lost Minds

E/Mo

25 Sep 2007 at 12:18 - 119
Yeah, Rurik's FDS is magical, obviously Adelbern's was too

Now I know why I use that sword!

doinchi

doinchi

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Singapore

Sheperd of Souls

W/Mo

25 Sep 2007 at 12:21 - 120
The fact that our characters have saved the world 4 times in a span of 10 years does seem odd, but lets not forget that the events of Prophecies, Factions and Nightfall are a series of events brought upon by one entity, Abbadon.

The events of Eye of the North can be seen as the first "Act" of Primordius. We foiled his first attempt at awakening and after licking his wounds, finding some new minions and 250 years, he going to try again.

In the article, it is mentioned how even our memories can lie to us and how much, or some, History is lost in the Sinking of Lion's Arch. The main story takes place in Tyria where they have lost contact with Cantha and Elona. They have very little knowledge of past events. It may be worth mentioning that the Hall of Monuments it probably forgotten. This seems to set the stage for an Apocalyptic World which is pretty much screwed.

(Right now I feel like I'm answering a Source Based Question for History, which I should be doing now instead of reading the forums. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense even. Am I?)

Well, anyway thats my idea of the setting and the events leading to the Primordius's rise. I think the story would start in Divinity's Reach. You, the Hero, signs up for the Divine Legion, or some equally cheesy name and get your basic training. You then go on several missions, slowly coming up with solutions to defeat Primordius, eventually ending up in the North-East where you stumble upon a old citadel. Eventually you find out it is in fact, the Eye of the North. You find the Hall of Monuments and upon entering, you admire the armor, weapons, titles and... Mini-pets. Then you look into the scrying pool and your Guild Wars 1 character pops out, telling you that your his/her descendant and your chosen by the Gods to Vanquish the Dragon. He/She becomes your Guide/ Guardian Angel and sorta helps you along the way like Rurik, Togo or Kormir. Only he doesn't die at the end because hes.. Well... Dead.

Whatever happens, I just want to see my GW1 characters again in GW2, maybe give them a small role or something. Oh, oh! I would LOVE to have a special green weapon belonging to the GW1 character, like Dinesh's Edge or something like that...

I have to get back to studying Real World History right now so I can't imagine or write much more. I really hope I don't mix up these 2 histories together. I might end up writing about how King Adelberns New Economic Policy and 5-Year Plans helped Ascalon cope with the Charr Invasions of 1000BC.