Synergizing Hero Builds?
Sab
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Originally Posted by karunpav
also, on your build, is Death Nova really worth it? with Protective Spirt, your minions won't be taking too much damage so it seems like a waste to me.
From my experience, the heroes prioritize PS on party members, and only heal or prot minions when there are no enemies around.
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Originally Posted by shrillex
do the builds work in gwen?
For the majority of GWEN, yes. There are a few Asuran areas where there are no corpses, but you can switch out the MM for another SS.
Die and Serve Me
Background: Play ranger mostly. Got my LV, LC, and some other titles. Got my LV using ONLY H/H. My point being that I have played using heros alot.
Saw the post of this build and decided to give it a try. After a week, I have become a believer: 1 - Have now vanquished about 1/2 dozen areas in EOTN with this build - much easier than the SF Hero build I was using. Find that the heros use the skills mostly appropriately and so long as I do not screw up the pull too badly, the team just rolls along. And, even in a couple of cases where the minions resulted in a 'huge' pull (eg. 4 groups of lvl 26+ Wind Riders) there was enough healing + firepower to stagger through -- even if it was not pretty. 2 - Working on my Legendary Protector title and have completed several of those missions using this build. Gates of Kryta in HM= 20/30 minutes -- w bonus of course -- is an example. 3 - In some areas, I run a 2x MM build (using Aura of the Lich). Particularly in clearing the Norm area Varajar Falls and the Asuran area of Magus Stones. 4 - In areas without corpses, I run a 2x SS build, this syncs up nicely. Though, I find this build can be trouble unless I really pay attention to the pulls. 5 - I usu take along 1 or 2 hex removal. That + BHA + dust trap + Vanguard Sin Support+ ??(depends on what I'm doing) is what I carry. Basically, I set a dust trap or two ahead of time; use BHA/move like a dwarf on the key caster (if one), and then let the battle unfold. 6 - While this build is NOT 'godly' -- bad pulls can result in a party wipe just like any other build -- I like the idea of NOT having to bother with the heros skill bars. I was terrible at that 'micro'managing stuff. 7 - After a bit, I swapped out the N/Rt elite for more 'damage' output...tried wail of doom, using icy veins now. Anyway, thanks to Sab for this build. Others may find it not suitable for their style of play but it suits me just fine. Cheers IGN: Eldest Archer
karunpav
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
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Originally Posted by Sab
From my experience, the heroes prioritize PS on party members, and only heal or prot minions when there are no enemies around.
ok, i'll take your word for it and try it out soon.
shrillex
sab i play as a paragon. i wonder if you have a build that also can coexist with the 3 hero builds.
MercenaryKnight
Shrillex I am no sab. But when I run that build on my paragon I try something like.
Theres nothing to fear and Defensive Anthem for Elite. Providing 50% block half the time with an all caster hero/hench = win for me. Not to mention these 2 skills alone keep them all alive pretty easily. That's just from maxed leadership, the rest can be various pve skills and maybe motivation to support them more? Or go spear and add some damage.
mrlopes
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrillex
sab i play as a paragon. i wonder if you have a build that also can coexist with the 3 hero builds.
Take TNTF or SY or whatever you like (defensive skills) and replace [card]Weapon of Remedy[/card] with [card]icy veins[/card] in the Necro heroe.
With my Paragon who plays a support role, i replace some of the defensive skills in the Necro with offensive, icy veins is one of them. We don't need all that healing with a Paragon in the team  Great, great build SAB thanks for sharing. If some of you use to play with a friend or maybe with 2 accounts (like myself So no Monks at all! So you have a team of 6 heroes that can handle almost anything, explosive minions, life steal/heal, foes dazed, blinded, interrupted, great spikes. Adjust some heroes skills with the papers that human players have and you get a team that can handle almost anything with no pain at all.
Sab
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrillex
sab i play as a paragon. i wonder if you have a build that also can coexist with the 3 hero builds.
Something like:
Defensive Anthem/Cruel Spear Holy Spear Spear of Lightning Watch Yourself Anthem of Flame Aggressive Refrain (PvE Skill) (PvE Skill or Res) I haven't played a Para in PvE since the Aggressive Refrain change, but I heard the hench Monks go crazy removing the Cracked Armor. Try Frenzy/Soldier's Defense if Anthem/Aggressive doesn't work out.
furanshisuko
1 thing could this be used lets say whit olias ,jurah and livia?
how should i set them attack,defence or evade? Elad Camaxtli
I used the original build on the front page and have loved it. A few tweaks here and there, and this has become my current team setup
I play a ranger with [skill]broad head arrow[/skill] and [skill]apply poison[/skill] with [skill]epidemic[/skill] I gave My SS necro the following build: SS Reckless haste Mark of pain splinter weapon cruel was daoshen enfeebling blood signet of lost souls death pact sig with the n/rit healer and the n/mo support mm, I have been able to complete most things in hard mode with ease, and almost all of normal mode is a cakewalk. Granted, you still cant aggro ungodly amounts of foes, but they drop quick, and BHA+Epidemic is obvious synergy in caster filled areas holix
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Originally Posted by Sab
Something like:
Defensive Anthem/Cruel Spear Holy Spear Spear of Lightning Watch Yourself Anthem of Flame Aggressive Refrain (PvE Skill) (PvE Skill or Res) I haven't played a Para in PvE since the Aggressive Refrain change, but I heard the hench Monks go crazy removing the Cracked Armor. Try Frenzy/Soldier's Defense if Anthem/Aggressive doesn't work out. How about ele  ? what build and which hench should i take with me and my 3necros to vanq GW:EN ? thanks^^
Sab
Quote:
Originally Posted by holix
How about ele
? what build and which hench should i take with me and my 3necros to vanq GW:EN ? thanks^^
Standard Mind Blast should be fine:Mind Blast Rodgort's Invocation Liquid Flame Ward Against Melee/Extinguish/Hex Removal Glyph of Lesser Energy Fire Attunement (PvE skill) (PvE skill or Res)
Dronte
What should I use instead of the third necro? (I dont have GW:EN, and wanna do vanquish in tyria, cantha, elona)
Currently I'm using this build, jagged bones instead of flesh golem, and I play as warrior (usually steady stance, save yourselves etc, self made build) cyber88
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Originally Posted by Sab
Standard Mind Blast should be fine:
Mind Blast Rodgort's Invocation Liquid Flame Ward Against Melee/Extinguish/Hex Removal Glyph of Lesser Energy Fire Attunement (PvE skill) (PvE skill or Res) since on the topic of eles. how abt savannah heat as the elite?
SotiCoto
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyber88
since on the topic of eles. how abt savannah heat as the elite?
Savannah Heat loses effectiveness without a big snare.... Deep Freeze should do it.
mage767
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Originally Posted by Cobalt
I don't think 4 manning it in FoW with this build would work as you need to rack up some kills to get it rolling and there is not enough fire power to take out the first couple FoW mobs to do it.
However with henches you could but I know you can't take henches in Prophecies as the henches are not level 20 in that area but perhaps accessing FoW in Nightfall's Chantry you can as the henches in that area are level 20, not sure though. Did 4-manning of this in FOW in NM. You can do Tower of Courage, the beach and even the spider cave with this but you need to be cautious...over-pull and you could die. cyber88
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
Savannah Heat loses effectiveness without a big snare.... Deep Freeze should do it.
Interesting.....I used to run a hero team build of a water ele with snares, fire ele with sf & gg and a mm loaded with br. The thing was that the water ele runs of energy 1st & the mm has to constantly br him (along with br the henchies monk) while the sf ele is constantly at almost full energy. With your explaination, I think I understand. The water snare keeps the mobs more bunch up so that mass burning can ensure steady flow of energy for the sf ele.
Hmmmzzzz.....thx for the answer.
Balian
Rt/N
[skill]Boon of Creation[/skill][skill]Explosive Growth[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill][skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Death Nova[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Signet of Creation[/skill][skill]Flesh of My Flesh[/skill] Spawning 12 + 2 +1 Death Magic 12 Rune of vigor Survivor Insignias Runes of attunement (get energy to about 47 or so for best results with the runes and staff) and Runes of Vit Put that on Razah in place of the MM Necro for better results... No energy problems whatsoever and always the last char to die (on the rare occassion it does happen) and before you say anything, yes the hero will upkeep the enchantments you will not have to do it manually ever sussuara
so i was wondering Sab, and whoever can help since its kinda a "silly" question, for place that doesnt have much corpses you suggested to bring another curse necro but when you go to kill mobs both necro will use SS on the same mob, since hex doesnt stack(even if its the same person) instead it renews the hex wouldnt it be kinda a waste ? even more if they use at the same time ?
So when you say to bring another curser necro do you micro to him target another target different the one that you going to call ? Or am i wrong and hexes from different persons(heroes/henchs w/e) does stack ? Omniclasm
This thread amazes me. So many "If a place doesn't have corpses, what do I do?". "I am an Elementalist, what build can I use?". "If I am a Paragon, what build should I use?". "Do I need monks?". : /
Sab
Quote:
Originally Posted by sussuara
so i was wondering Sab, and whoever can help since its kinda a "silly" question, for place that doesnt have much corpses you suggested to bring another curse necro but when you go to kill mobs both necro will use SS on the same mob, since hex doesnt stack(even if its the same person) instead it renews the hex wouldnt it be kinda a waste ? even more if they use at the same time ?
So when you say to bring another curser necro do you micro to him target another target different the one that you going to call ? Or am i wrong and hexes from different persons(heroes/henchs w/e) does stack ? AFAIK heroes will never use the same hex on the same target. They might both use SS at the same time, but they'll be casting on different mobs. sussuara
hmm didnt know that, thanks a lot again sab.
elysiumIX
Thanks for the really nice builds.
I've modified the MM though. Is [skill]Heal Area[/skill] fine to be included in the build? The hero spams it so much it drains him of his energy whenever we stop running.  Also, can [skill]Order of Undeath[/skill] replace [skill]Jagged Bones[/skill]?
shru
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10156960<---best and most innovative hero build I've ever ran.
I run the heroes as followed and a BHA epidimic ranger for mass conditions and shutdown. It works extremely well in any place with a medium amount of corpses and 6+ party members. Just make sure you take as many healer henchies as you can, as you'll have insane damage in HM with your two necros alone.
Karyuu
Well, finally got around to trying these builds today (after wrestling with Factions) and I must say that I'm really grateful! I decided to vanquish a few zones in Elona, and we didn't have a single death in the party the entire time.
Very cool :] unreal_uk
For areas like Varajar Fells in EOTN, you'll have to decide if you want the MM or not. If you vanquishing, then the lake and the elemental cave will cause you major problems since there are no fleshy creatures at all. The bison area in the southwest is completely simple - there are a good 100 or so enemies there that will fall quickly with these builds, so if you're just point farming, this is the place to start. But I had some nasty party wipes while fighting elementals and Imps.
Mac Sidewinder
I decided to test this build on the Thirsty River Mission. Even though it is a 6 man area I only took the 3 necro build and myself as a prot monk. After killing the 5 sand giants for +10% morale boost I entered the mission arena. Let me say it was the easiest time I have ever had doing this mission. If you simply pick off the casters outside the priest area then just march everyone (by flagging) inside it is pretty simple.
Even if you don't kill the priest in time and he rezzes his team your minions simply wipe them again pretty quickly. I even got the bonus without even really trying. The only thing about this mission that was more difficult was that the bosses and priest spam WoH and a interrupter would have been helpful. All in all I am very impressed with it. Thanks Sab. hotman
Sab, i am a necro, i was wondering what is a build i should use with your men, i am currently using your ss build, which is awesome, but i was wondering 3 SS necros wouldnt work very well in corpse-less places, and advice?
ヽ(??ー｀)ﾉ
One as Spoil Victor or Feast of Corruption?
cyber88
Damn! The update on SR hit this team build hard. Now the healing rit will lose the efficiency. Sighz.....
bungusmaximus
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyber88
Damn! The update on SR hit this team build hard. Now the healing rit will lose the efficiency. Sighz.....
But they fixed SR from spirits, I usually get more energy back from baddies dying. When I take 1 rit healer along thats only one spirit dying every now and then, that wasn't much already. I think it is the best way of fixing a problem without causing too much side effects.
cyber88
Quote:
Originally Posted by bungusmaximus
But they fixed SR from spirits, I usually get more energy back from baddies dying. When I take 1 rit healer along thats only one spirit dying every now and then, that wasn't much already. I think it is the best way of fixing a problem without causing too much side effects.
Hmmzzzz....to a certain extend, I do feel the same way but I dun wan to comment further. This thread actually helped me a lot & I dun wan it turn into a flame room.
kaldak
i dont doubt its effectiveness, i'm just curious...why is the healer a N/Rt instead of N/Mo?
Sab
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaldak
i dont doubt its effectiveness, i'm just curious...why is the healer a N/Rt instead of N/Mo?
Healing Prayers spells are balanced around having the Divine Favor bonus. This means /Mo secondaries are no where near as efficient at healing than Mo/ primaries.
Resto spells are balanced around having spirits in range, and they generally heal for a lot more than the equivalent Healing Prayers spell (compare Mend Body/Spirit Light to Orison/Kiss).
distilledwill
This setup is a variation of the setup I posted on the vanquishing builds section, I havent had a chance to try it out yet and I'd like some feedback on it:
Hayda: P/Mo with a Zealous Enchanting Spear: [card]Spear Of Lightning[/card][card]"Stand Your Ground!"[/card][card]"Go For The Eyes!"[/card][card]Holy Veil[/card][card]Aegis[/card][card]Anthem Of Envy[/card][card]Soldier's Fury[/card][card]Signet Of Return[/card] Spear Mastery: 8 + 1 Command: 10 + 1 + 1 Protection Prayers: 9 Leadership: 9 + 1 Morgahn: P/any [card]Barbed Spear[/card][card]Mending Refrain[/card][card]Chorus of Restoration[/card][card]Ballad of Restoration[/card][card]Finale Of Restoration[/card][card]Energizing Chorus[/card][card]Song Of Restoration[/card][card]Signet Of Return[/card] Spear Mastery: 10 + 1 Motivation: 12 + 1 + 1 Leadership: 9 + 1 Melonni: D/N with a blood staff - set to avoid combat. [card]Order Of Pain[/card][card]Dark Fury[/card][card]Arcane Zeal[/card][card]Vow Of Piety[/card][card]Watchful Intervention[/card][card]Faithful Intervention[/card][card]Mystic Healing[/card][card]Resurrection Signet[/card] Blood Magic: 12 Mysticism: 10 + 1 + 1 Wind Prayers: 8 + 1 If you can, take a monk hench and a physical attacker hench (for 6 man areas - more physical attackers eg, Warriors and Paragons, for 8 man areas.). You shouldnt need 2 monks really but it makes it fairly easy if you do take them. The more physical attackers you have, the higher your overall DPS will be, plus, adrenhaline based henches work well due to dark fury so think about taking only warriors and paragons. I swapped out the Magrid packhunter from my original setup for this odd Aegis paragon. The full party enchantment from Aegis will assist in reducing the melee pressure much like a Defensive Anthem para would. Her Command shouts include two Adrenaline shouts to allow her to regain the energy which Aegis costs. Holy Veil is for hex-heavy areas, paragons dont have very effective hex-removal without using a /Me secondary so I thought I would put this in there as it is usually used pretty effectively by monk heroes and I dont see why it wouldnt be just as effective on a paragon. You can replace Holy Veil with [card]Anthem Of Flame[/card], Purifying Veil or [card]"Never Surrender!"[/card] if you're not going to be under lots of hex-pressure. I used Soldiers Fury as she is using a Zealous spear so the more she can attack, the better her energy management will be. The paragon build mainly spreads helpful chants and can maintain mending refrain on most people with the help of the the Command/Protection Paragon. He uses Chorus Of Restoration and Energising Chorus to assist Hayda with her shouts and Song of Restoration and Ballad of Restoration to provide party heals. I equipped him with Barbed Spear so that he can contribute to the degen which I apply with my characters build, but it can be swapped out for a different attack or even another shout. Melonni will use her two Necro enchants really often, triggering party heals when they end and causing great energy boons for her. The parties DPS shoots up under Order Of Pain and coupled with Go For The Eyes from Kayda, it can get pretty impressive. Make sure you precast Faithful Intervention whenever entering an area and when it is stripped or triggered. With the addition of the Aegis paragon, she now benefits from when Aegis ends on her, giving her a boost of health and energy, and if she has vow of piety on her, it will give party heals out too. The same goes for when she is hexed and the Command Aegis paragon removes it with holy veil. I play as a Ranger Packhunter, benefiting from the orders, dark fury and using a PvE shout so as to benefit from the chorus': [card]Spear Of Lightning[/card][card]Blazing Spear[/card]"Finish Him!"[card]Poisonous Bite[/card][card]Tiger's Fury[/card][card]Heal As One[/card][card]Charm Animal[/card][card]Resurrection Signet[/card] Any physical attacker that uses shouts or even a dervish who can benefit from the enchantments flying around will work well with this hero setup. Any constructive criticism?
Cathode_Reborn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sab
Healing Prayers spells are balanced around having the Divine Favor bonus. This means /Mo secondaries are no where near as efficient at healing than Mo/ primaries.
Resto spells are balanced around having spirits in range, and they generally heal for a lot more than the equivalent Healing Prayers spell (compare Mend Body/Spirit Light to Orison/Kiss). The new Glimmer is nice on N/Mo's. Same healing as Mend Body and Soul but with a fast cast and 1sec recharge....heroes are always good with 1/4 stuff. One of the better things about an N/Mo is it has access to prot spirit/hex removal.
davehall
Quote:
Originally Posted by unreal_uk
For areas like Varajar Fells in EOTN, you'll have to decide if you want the MM or not. If you vanquishing, then the lake and the elemental cave will cause you major problems since there are no fleshy creatures at all. The bison area in the southwest is completely simple - there are a good 100 or so enemies there that will fall quickly with these builds, so if you're just point farming, this is the place to start. But I had some nasty party wipes while fighting elementals and Imps.
Been Norn-point farming Varajar Fells for a while, using a modified version of Sab's build. VF is actually easy once you know where all the pop-up nightmares are.
The only party wipes I had where I over-arggoed two groups of ice imps and when I was up against Dazehl Brainfreezer. I found the popup nightmares to be more feared then the ice imps, especially the scourge vaettir, who carry Scourge Healing and Reversal of Damage. I usually just avoid them altogether. But if you wish to take them on, best bet is to send in a group of mm bombers. lol
Palek
I have tried this party-builds in different places in HM. It's great! Structure about such:
N/any DM 16/SR 13, Jaggged MM: Jagges Bones - Animate Bone Horror - Animate Shambling Horror - Blood of Master - Death Nova N/any Curses 16/SR 13, SS support: SS - Desecrate Enchanchment - Enfeebind Blood (Defile Enchanchment) - Reckless Haste - Barbs - Mark of Pain N/Rt RM 12/SR 14, WoR-healer: WoR - Recuperation - Recovery - Life All necros have Signet of Lost Souls; resurection and rest of skills - in depend of a situation. In a party it is obligatory Mo/any monk. I'm monk. I prefer HB/heal party, but it is possible LoD, GoL, and ZB-prot. Further in this party henchs up to 6-8 reached so that there was one more healers (Motivation/Protection). Such party has appeared the most balanced, capable to be at war without micro-managment. In difficult places I stopped, waited, while MM will make all the business, manually put 1-2 spirits from N/Rt, forces to go minions forward and only after that pull foes. Important: a beggining of fight is critical time for all of healers/protectors. So I'd prefer HB/heal party + energy set. Often after 10-15s. from begining of fight I lost all of my energy (from 59), however my party is still alive and now protect me. If no, I lost this round. But you'll can find other tactic to survive. In difficult places where there is not enough flesh or foes are dispersed, I replaced N/Rt on primary Mo so that my party have 1 healer, 1 protector-heroes. Variations: in easy places it is replaced WoR on Icy Veins. In more easy places we can take the second SS or Necro-degen-Order which allows party started more quickly. I tried to improve this build changing 2-nd profession of necros on Me for second source of energy. It gives plus for start at absence of a flesh, but in fight lose vs the original Cobalt
After nerf build adjustments;
Since the N/RT can no longer get a SR benefit from spirits thus Life with it 20 second up time is no longer essential I tried some experimenting and I have found switching it out for Rejuvenation works much better. I noticed with Life the N/RT drops it all over the place and with this team plus henches often fights are over before life goes off. However with Rejuvenation it is used during battle no matter how long or short it is. So Rejuvenation is not a waste of a cast like Life can be now plus the N/RT does not seem to just drop it all over the place either. For SR benefit you can also try replacing Life with minions for weak minions that die a lot but you would need to be in areas with lots of corpses because the N/RT would be competing with the MM for them. xDusT II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobalt
After nerf build adjustments;
Since the N/RT can no longer get a SR benefit from spirits thus Life with it 20 second up time is no longer essential I tried some experimenting and I have found switching it out for Rejuvenation works much better. I noticed with Life the N/RT drops it all over the place and with this team plus henches often fights are over before life goes off. However with Rejuvenation it is used during battle no matter how long or short it is. So Rejuvenation is not a waste of a cast like Life can be now plus the N/RT does not seem to just drop it all over the place either. For SR benefit you can also try replacing Life with minions for weak minions that die a lot but you would need to be in areas with lots of corpses because the N/RT would be competing with the MM for them. Rejuvination really needs the befits from Spawning Power to be worthwhile. At level 12 Restoration and nothing in SP, you'll have a 140HP spirit that loses 9 health per person healed every second. Provided it's healing, say, 4 people every second (Seeing how it doesn't heal those at full health), the spirit will die in 4 seconds and provide 36HP to each person affected. The healing and life expectancy will drop even further when more than 4 people are not at full health. Life is still better because of it is a large party wide heal, something most N/Rt's can't do effectively. usually the spirit range is large enough that if your hero places the spirit out of combat, you can usually remain in the effect of the spirit when you enter combat, or pull enemies into the spirits range. UI Modifications which have a spirit range bubble on the radar can be usefull for situations like this. At the very worst you could just micro the hero. cyber88
Interesting observations. I want to contribute something as well. I notice that the resto nec is using the WoR quite well without any micro recently (was playing again this morning after a short break). I read elsewhere that during 1 of the previous updates that the AI for rit heroes was improved when using weapon spells but it was observed that it was only for rit heroes. It really helps now since N/Rt cannot can energy from spirits because using that elite is essential.
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