PvP and PvE are incompatable? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

23 Sep 2007 at 21:18 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

If you 2 would Learn to Read. I said it was the start that when Anerf seperated them and thats when they started to become incompatible.
Its not BS, Thats the exact point when the wedge was First driven inbetween PvP and PvE.

The entire reason for them being introduced was so that Guildwars wouldn't become the grindfest that other mmo's out there became for a PvE player to get into competitive PvP. Other mmo's are about item grind and time invested in your character > skill. GW wanted to reverse this and the introduction of PvP only characters was a perfect idea. It was ment to put everyone at the same competitive level, with the same equipment, same armor, same attributes, same skills. Sadly there were items and things available in PvE that the PvP characters didnt have access too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Sorry if you folks dont like the truth but that is and was the starting point of it all. I know it must be so hard for some folks to hear the truth from time to time but it needs to happen.

While the truth is a good thing at times, its aparent your version of the truth is blatantly false and misleading....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

Clearly you are really good at reading.

Aparently you arent good at comprehending. This isnt the first thread sayign that PvE and PvP arent compatible in one way or the other. Avarre was correct.

manitoba1073

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

ManitobaShipyards Refit and Repair Station

(SFC)Star Fleet Command,(TDE)The Daggerfall elite,(SOoM)Secret order of Magi

23 Sep 2007 at 22:43 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

The entire reason for them being introduced was so that Guildwars wouldn't become the grindfest that other mmo's out there became for a PvE player to get into competitive PvP. Other mmo's are about item grind and time invested in your character > skill. GW wanted to reverse this and the introduction of PvP only characters was a perfect idea. It was ment to put everyone at the same competitive level, with the same equipment, same armor, same attributes, same skills. Sadly there were items and things available in PvE that the PvP characters didnt have access too.
While the truth is a good thing at times, its aparent your version of the truth is blatantly false and misleading....
.

No your just missing the obvious truth. Reread even your own reply cause its quite funny you showed the reason but yet you are still failing to understand the truth. But I'll be nice to bold it for you from you own quote Sadly there were items and things available in PvE that the PvP characters didnt have access too And thus the beginnings of the seperation and INCOMPATIBILITES between PvP and PvE.
So please tell me where I'm wrong. Come on tell me. But the truth is I'm right.

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

24 Sep 2007 at 03:16 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Hate to play devils advocate, but most of the people complaining about grind are n00bs who fail too much to win without the overpowered PvE skills. Their is NO mandatory grind in guild wars. Their is no mission that cannot be defeated without PvE grind. Good players can still easily get to level 20, get max armor, get a REAL build ( not the BS grind pve skills builds ) , and run it start to finish with nothing but heroes/henchmen.

Anet is not at fault. The Playerbases unwillingness to get better and stop failing is.

I'd like to see your research on that. I could easily claim the following:

"Hate to play devils advocate, but most of the people who want powerful titles are n00bs who fail too much to win without the overpowered PvE skills and auras. There is no mission that cannot be defeated without titles or title-related benefits. Good players can still easily get to level 20, get max armor, get a REAL build (not the BS grind pve skills builds), and run it start to finish with nothing but heroes/henchmen."

See what I did there?

Personally, I'm one of the people complaining about grind, and I'd be quite happy to see titles removed entirely and title-based skills rebalanced (including nerfing as required - serious nerfing in some cases. "You Move Like A Dwarf" vs Gale, discuss) to act as normal skills or even removed entirely. And I don't think I'm unique among the people who don't like the grind.

VanDamselx

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Buffalo, NY

[TTBH]

24 Sep 2007 at 03:56 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

Not only are PvE and PvP incompatible, but also PvP is incompatible with itself. RA/TA, AB, HA and GvG are completely separate games.

And let us not even talk about the players who play these game types. Most of them are incessant whiners through and through. And then there are those like me who whine about the whiners, and about whining in general. Pretty soon Malice Black comes along and locks the thread.

Why is it bad that they're all different? People would bitch and complain if they were entirely too much alike. The variety is nice. Some people enjoy RA while they don't enjoy TA. Some people don't care to GvG, but enjoy HA. If PvP was all too much alike, I don't think as many people would do it.

And whining about whiners? Look at the pot calling the kettle black...

Hailey Anne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

A/E

24 Sep 2007 at 04:02 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Clearly you haven't seen the multitude of ones before.

Seriously.
This issue has been talked about so much. imo any new threads about PvP vs PvE or incompatibily etc. should just be closed. with a link to one of the other 100 threads about it for them to go post on.

Perth68

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Sacred Blood

R/

24 Sep 2007 at 11:25 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hailey Anne

Seriously.
This issue has been talked about so much. imo any new threads about PvP vs PvE or incompatibily etc. should just be closed. with a link to one of the other 100 threads about it for them to go post on.

When I made the post I felt that would be generally less favored, and figured if one of those discussions were more recent then I felt they were that one of the mods would of done just that. There really has been a lot of these discussions, I just wanted to put in my argument now that I felt compelled too and I felt that it was one that wasn't expressed very often. (which is probably evident from the way I worded the first post I have been quite thrilled about how many people agree with me) Though to be honest, If I started writing the post after the thread "what brought me to gw....." I would've just made it a reply there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Hate to play devils advocate, but most of the people complaining about grind are n00bs who fail too much to win without the overpowered PvE skills. Their is NO mandatory grind in guild wars. Their is no mission that cannot be defeated without PvE grind. Good players can still easily get to level 20, get max armor, get a REAL build ( not the BS grind pve skills builds ) , and run it start to finish with nothing but heroes/henchmen.

Anet is not at fault. The Playerbases unwillingness to get better and stop failing is.

That argument is mostly right. Its what I love about Guild Wars. But since the grind is minimal in Guild Wars why should I even have to put up with a little? Why should I have to accept the fact that a person who has opened more chests has better chance at retaining the lockpicks? And while that is a fairly small detail that doesn't bother me so much to not like Guild Wars, these are things that have been added to the game, and a direction that they look to continue to do. Guild Wars with these "enhancements" is a game I think I would have fun in, but it would be because its the game closest to what I want and not the game that I want. Its a direction that damages the original quality of the game.

PvE only skills add fun skills to the game, so why are they PvE only? Its either because of a philosophy that PvP balanced skills are less fun than overpowered PvE skills in PvE or that skills tied to faction titles are a fun mechanic. Both are wrong.

Separating the entire game types of PvE and PvP are for the same reason they are separated the skills, so they can change the way they work. And its a change that isn't beneficial or necessary.

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

24 Sep 2007 at 12:00 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perth68

That argument is mostly right. Its what I love about Guild Wars. But since the grind is minimal in Guild Wars why should I even have to put up with a little? Why should I have to accept the fact that a person who has opened more chests has better chance at retaining the lockpicks? And while that is a fairly small detail that doesn't bother me so much to not like Guild Wars, these are things that have been added to the game, and a direction that they look to continue to do. Guild Wars with these "enhancements" is a game I think I would have fun in, but it would be because its the game closest to what I want and not the game that I want. Its a direction that damages the original quality of the game.

That's pretty much my attitude as well. I didn't like the improved chance of not breaking items on salvage through a title when that was introduced, but it was still a relatively unintrusive benefit... then. However, the titles have been made more and more important to the gameplay as time passes, and as it does I see the original "spend your time having fun rather than preparing to have fun" ideal slip further and further away.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

24 Sep 2007 at 12:07 - 48

Explain how;

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Sadly there were items and things available in PvE that the PvP characters didnt have access too

leads to;

Quote:

And thus the beginnings of the seperation and INCOMPATIBILITES between PvP and PvE.

Considering PvP players prior to the addition of PvP characters had to make PvE characters anyway, and still did in order to have the most advantage. All you've done is give the explanation of why most top-tier PvP players played PvE extensively in order to max their characters out. That sounds like keeping them together to me.

The largest divide between the two was created when Anet began creating mobs with radically increased stats, numbers and skills in order to create difficulty. By doing this, the playstyle of PvE and PvP became far more differentiated compared to areas where the mobs were leveled and designed more like players were. As a result, builds, tactics, skills, and even entire character classes became obsolete in places due to their incapability against PvE.

Servant of Kali

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

Me/

24 Sep 2007 at 12:53 - 49

Quote:

you don't need to look good to pvp

You don't need to look good to PvE either.

Looking better in PvE and PvP is equally important. Looking worse in PvE won't decrease your performance just as it wont in PvP but the enjoyment will increase in both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

insta-create, discardable pvp characters are NOT very rpg-like at all, despite their convenience. WoW doesnt have them...

WoW doesn't have them... wow... incredible. ANet should commit suicide because they failed to make a 100% replica of WoW without monthy fee.

PvP characters are GREAT, they are meant for PvPing *not* some kiddish roleplaying with dragons. PvP char is meant to do exactly that - kill, and kill with style. PvP char needs to look good, needs to have good looking weapons, and needs to be effective.

Stop forcing people to play the game the way you want it to be played. NO ONE forces you to use PvP-only chars.

ps: It would be great if everyone had their Age listed under avatar picture here in the forum, so I can skip many posts made here by 12yr olds. It hurts my brain to read them, just to get to those few who matter

Crom The Pale

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

Ageis Ascending

W/

24 Sep 2007 at 13:52 - 50

To sum all this up...

Anet tried to build an integrated pvp + pve game and to please everyone that played it. They succeeded!

The problem is that to succeed they created several splintered versions of the same game all linked together.

Most everyone has one splinter of the game that they very much enjoy, missions/quests/dungeons/elite zones/Random arena/team arena/Heros Ascent/Guild vs Guild/Hero Battles...

The problem arises in that all of us think that our favorite splinter of the game(or 2 or 3) would be better and more enjoyable if they did away with or changed those parts we do not find as enjoyable. Anet has tried to stretch out that link by adding things exclusive to only part of the game(pve only skills/pvp only skins) but eventually they do have some impact on all players due to the simple fact that this is one game, not many many small games linked under one title.

Vanquisher

Site Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2005

Herts, UK

One Hitter Quitters [QQ]

24 Sep 2007 at 14:06 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Their is NO mandatory grind in guild wars.

Primary Quests are grind.

Terra Xin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2006

New Zealand

Me/R

24 Sep 2007 at 15:12 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Clearly you haven't seen the multitude of ones before.

Its sort of like saying "yes, we know" but not really caring if anything is done about it, because there's just too much that would need to be changed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

Primary Quests are grind.

Pfft. Waking up every morning is 'grind' yet we still do it.

Servant of Kali

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

Me/

24 Sep 2007 at 16:11 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunch of PvE-grinders

Their is NO mandatory grind in guild wars.

Wrong. Every piece of GW content which is restricted unless you grind, creates *mandatory grind*. It's silly to say there's no mandatory grind just because you can finish the mission storyline in 1-2 days.

If I want a FoW armor and can only get it through mindless grind (instead of some normal ways), then that is mandatory grind. The content of FoW armor (other skins too but this is an example) is restricted to me by grind. I dunnot need to have that armor of course, but I also don't need *any* armor to finish the game. As a matter of fact I've done almost all Nightfall missions with starter armor and only bought new one when I felt like it. So, I could also say "armor isn't mandatory let's remove it", but that would be removing a huge amount of content.. why? The same reason is - why remove a huge number of armor sets for casual people, or restrict them? Why? Because they ain't mandatory? Sorry, but I proved no armor is mandatory, or no weapon for that matter. Why then? To prolong someones gaming time? Please, we ain't paying subscription fees, there's no reason for it. Why then? Simple, to satisfy those players who turned grind into their meaning of life.

In the end I'd like to repeat - stop with nonsense that grind isn't mandatory. No weapon and armor is mandatory, so why those aren't restricted either? The fact is that grind disabled a significant amount of game content for casual players who don't spend 24/7 hours in GW nor do they intend to.

Also, in case few of you forgot, games are meant for relaxation and not work, so don't even try telling me that "I should work for skins if I want them". If I wanted to work I'd work IRL and *buy* myself *real* skins!

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

24 Sep 2007 at 17:32 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

Pfft. Waking up every morning is 'grind' yet we still do it.

No, waking up means you're alive, not grinding. Although there are a few I have seen post on this forum (not directed at anyone in particular, just a general observation) I wish wouldn't wake up....

agrios

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

South America

Naked Stalkers of America[Nude]

W/

24 Sep 2007 at 17:36 - 55

FoW is optional, so, grinding for is also optional. Not to mention that not all obsidian look good (Ele armor looks very bad imho), but they are wanted because theyre expensive, so, some people need it to show themselves off. Just like crystaline swords. Now that Dwarven Axes can be crafted ,how many people still want them badly? If all of a sudden FoW becomes easy to get how many of these people will crave for it?

This is - by far - different from other games where you have to grind, and I mean spending dozens/hundreds of hours, just to get skills and equipment just adequated to your level.

Saying that primary quests are grind is non-sense. They are needed to be done just once, and they are pretty quick. Grinding is characterized by doing, the same, boring thing, thousands of times for a very long time - like in other games: go to spot -kill mob- get loot - wait for respawn - goto line1.

I can say farming is some sort of grinding, but even so, is a self imposed grinding. Money from farm helps? Alot, but I played a lot of chars in my 2 accounts, and with some of them, from start to finish without having to farm even a little. So, farm is not mandatory, it just helps you to get some of your vanity needs.

Buster

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Elona

Clan Eternal Legion

D/W

24 Sep 2007 at 18:37 - 56

There is never any compatibility/balance in GW in regards to pvp and pve. Once they start changing skills everything just gets messy for pvp and pve.
They should have made pvp and pve only servers right from the start, this way everyone would have been happier.

Vanquisher

Site Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2005

Herts, UK

One Hitter Quitters [QQ]

24 Sep 2007 at 19:26 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

Pfft. Waking up every morning is 'grind' yet we still do it.

Doesn't change the fact that the implementation of primary quests to force people to play the storyline is grind.

Nekretaal

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

24 Sep 2007 at 19:58 - 58

GW is an incredibly casual, almost pick up and play PvE and an incredibly hardcore pvp.

In Pve you can get started and go, henchmen can complete everything for you, outside of a few dungeons.

The pvp game requires you to spend $200, unlock all the skills & learn all of the important skills & skill animations, and requires you to have ventrilo and good teamwork. In fact, GW's hardcore pvp takes 5-15 minutes of setup before you can even start the match. Gw's pvp does not appeal to casual pvpers who will rush this week to buy HALO3. The dollar cost, teamwork issues, lack of good pvp singleplayer options, and time spent to setup make GW pvp a very niche game... one that's been bleeding players for the last 18 months.

Causal pvE and Hardcore pvp in the same game?

Incompatible. Nuff said.

It's a legit complaint of the casual player that he's constantly getting nerfed. "Wtf why dont my skills work?" "Why do I need to grind to get new skills (gear) and rework my whole build just because of some issue in a pvp game that I dont even play?"

Then there's anet's decision to introduce grind to satisfy the hardcore players of GW's causual pvE. Personally, I quit and uninstalled in May after anet asked me to grind luxon/kurzick points to use skills. No thanks. I accepted the soul reaping nerf but wolnt ever grind friggin alliance battles. Though vanquisher calls these inducements to grind bad pvE design issues, its hard not to blame the pvp balance for these issues. There's no gear worth getting for the hardest of the hardcore, there's no progression or character development except for nerfs which are universally negative, and that's because of pvp balance. The only thing to do is grind alot so some pvper will sell you gear so you can look like you are good at pvp.

Anet botched PvE, and GW pvp just isnt a product that will appeal to a mass audience (advantages over WoW or other MMO pvp notwithstanding).

Bring on GW2.

It sounds like GW2 is shaping to offer hardcore pvE from the get-go, so it'll be an entirely different experience.

Master Ketsu

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

middle of nowhere

Krazy Guild With Krazy People [KrZy]

R/

24 Sep 2007 at 20:32 - 59

Quote:

Wrong. Every piece of GW content which is restricted unless you grind, creates *mandatory grind*. It's silly to say there's no mandatory grind just because you can finish the mission storyline in 1-2 days.

If I want a FoW armor and can only get it through mindless grind (instead of some normal ways), then that is mandatory grind. The content of FoW armor (other skins too but this is an example) is restricted to me by grind. I dunnot need to have that armor of course, but I also don't need *any* armor to finish the game. As a matter of fact I've done almost all Nightfall missions with starter armor and only bought new one when I felt like it. So, I could also say "armor isn't mandatory let's remove it", but that would be removing a huge amount of content.. why? The same reason is - why remove a huge number of armor sets for casual people, or restrict them? Why? Because they ain't mandatory? Sorry, but I proved no armor is mandatory, or no weapon for that matter. Why then? To prolong someones gaming time? Please, we ain't paying subscription fees, there's no reason for it. Why then? Simple, to satisfy those players who turned grind into their meaning of life.

In the end I'd like to repeat - stop with nonsense that grind isn't mandatory. No weapon and armor is mandatory, so why those aren't restricted either? The fact is that grind disabled a significant amount of game content for casual players who don't spend 24/7 hours in GW nor do they intend to.

Bolded where you debunked yourself.

Vanity is not mandatory grind. Mandatory grind would be grind that disables you from playing the game, not grind that disables you from obtaining access to a silly little bonus item thats slightly more shiny then the collector items and provides no additional benefit or advantage in competitive play.

I also LOL @ renaming me "bunch of PvE Grinders". I hardly ever PvE ! Ive never even completed fissure of woe. Im a PVP player. HA, TA, GVG and all that. RA when my guild is being lazy. 2 million+ balth faction. Most expensive thing I ever bought was 15k druids. And did I feel like the grind towards 15k druids was in any way "mandatory" ? No, because its a vanity item. I wanted it because I was willing to work for it and wanted to look differant then other rangers. Not because I had to get it to stay competitive in PvP or to stay alive longer in PvE but because I wanted to. Emphasis on want. If you want something, its not mandatory. Its only mandatory if you need it.

Quote:

Primary Quests are grind.

LOL fail.

Gattocheese

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

New Mexico

GWEN

24 Sep 2007 at 20:50 - 60

I agree that Guild Wars is the strongest PvP MMO out there. It started out as pvp, hense the name Guild Wars and not World of Tyria. But the pve aspect of the game grew way too fast. Then they started catering more toward pve this last campaign(NF) and expansion(GWEN). Now Anet has a mess of trouble trying to balance pvp and pve out. What once started as pvp now is mainly pve. Most nerfs come at the cost of pve because its overpowered use in pvp. Thats probaly one of the top reasons for creating GW2.

I believe that the skills for PvP and PvE should be seperated some how, but still feel like it belongs to the world. I dont know about you, but i would really love to see an update containing content for the game, rather than seeing an update for the game saying "oh crap, what did they nerf this time". In the future, if Anet can get GW2 right, they could spend more time on making GW2 alot better by adding content and using their resources in places its really needed instead of constant nerf updates.

Servant of Kali

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

Me/

24 Sep 2007 at 23:00 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Bolded where you debunked yourself.

Vanity is not mandatory grind. Mandatory grind would be grind that disables you from playing the game

I'm sorry, have you even read my post? Do I need to re-type everything?

ps: Vanity is ego thing. I'm talking about Style. Yes, I like style and a sense of fashion so to speak. That does not make me vain. Style is when I want my character to look good because it increases my enjoyment factor. Vanity is when I don't care how my character looks like, but whether it has expensive equipment I can boast with.

But as the saying goes.. to the pure all things are pure. Opposite goes too. So I perfectly understand that people full of vanity will see vanity everywhere.

Quote:

and provides no additional benefit or advantage

...and.... why then is GW not made in 256 colors, with far less animations?
How much less people would buy the game if that were so?

Exactly.

Quote:

I wanted it because I was willing to work for it

So you prove my point.

If you want to work in a game, that's all okay, I have even suggested a Title just for you:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:...title_pl s.3F

Just don't force people to work in a game because you like work. Also, just because you have no sense of style or fashion, don't assume no one else does. Just because you're satisfied with little things, don't assume that someone doesn't have healthier stance.

Quote:

If you want something, its not mandatory. Its only mandatory if you need it.

Exactly. And I need all weapon/armor skins, my sense of style demands it. I didn't pay 150$ so that I have to work. I payed 150$ so that I can relax and have fun AFTER work. Obviously something that you and others fail to grasp.

For me, it's mandatory, just as skill balances are. Using your logic I can also say "oh, GvG should have 1 map, and there should be no other PvP arenas. Beause you see, you can still PvP with 1 GvG map, the others are not mandatory". Hey, it makes as much sense. Sounds drastic this way, but that's the only way people will realize it.

Master Ketsu

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

middle of nowhere

Krazy Guild With Krazy People [KrZy]

R/

24 Sep 2007 at 23:44 - 62

Quote:

And I need all weapon/armor skins, my sense of style demands it.

your parents clearly never taught you the difference between needs and wants, and I really dont feel like picking up their slack so I'm backing out of this one before it gets too ugly.

cya.

Master Ketsu has left the game.

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

25 Sep 2007 at 01:37 - 63

Grind IS mandatory for new players to PvP. You start out with nothing unless you buy the ridiculously overpriced PvP packs (in other words UAX should be free). So in essence, PvE mechanics have always created grind in PvP where grind didn't belong. There is your incompatible.

VanDamselx

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Buffalo, NY

[TTBH]

25 Sep 2007 at 01:53 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Grind IS mandatory for new players to PvP. You start out with nothing unless you buy the ridiculously overpriced PvP packs (in other words UAX should be free). So in essence, PvE mechanics have always created grind in PvP where grind didn't belong. There is your incompatible.

That's not what PvP packs are for. They are intended for people to buy without buying the whole campaign. If you don't PvE, you save yourself 20 bucks and a lot of time by already having the skills and the additional professions unlocked that would come with that campaign.

Vanquisher

Site Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2005

Herts, UK

One Hitter Quitters [QQ]

25 Sep 2007 at 06:27 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

LOL fail.

How exactly? It's forcing me, if I even bother with PvE, to grind some dumb ranks and do retarded things I don't want to do, before I can complete the storyline. Prophecies was far better, just let people get to the end of the game without doing anything really. Mind, then I needed to cap elites and buy skills of skill trainers throughout the entire map.

cthulhu reborn

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

the Netherlands

W/Mo

25 Sep 2007 at 06:31 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Certain people just need to realise how important skill balancing is to PvP, and how little it matters in PvE.

Certain people just need to realise that this sort of comment has no inherent value and so might aswell not be made to begin with.

Spazzer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

USA

Team Asshat [Hat]

Mo/E

25 Sep 2007 at 06:36 - 67

He's right, and there's plenty of value in that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

you arent good at comprehending.

Are you trying to be ironic to confuse me, or are you really so random?

acidic

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

25 Sep 2007 at 07:46 - 68

people actually still play this god forsaken game? amazing

Servant of Kali

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

Me/

25 Sep 2007 at 08:15 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

Certain people just need to realise that this sort of comment has no inherent value and so might aswell not be made to begin with.

He's right, you're wrong.

And you have "W/Mo" listed as your profession under your avatar pic. Nuff said.

Clord

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Finland

Victory Via Valour

25 Sep 2007 at 08:44 - 70

When talking about skill, it is mostly build what you use and your equipment choices to support that build.

However, MMO games are not mostly played because how much skill they take, they are played because you can experience other worlds and role play. Casual PvE player not gonna care about balance and use Guild Wars forums.

Then there is games where you actually use your BRAIN and that is because they need some PLAYING SKILL. Games like Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, etc, require that. Guild Wars is more focused to use your PLAYING SKILL, prepare to right build build and making new builds. Then putting some items with you and you are ready to try and win PvP match. Bit cooperating and team work too of course.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

25 Sep 2007 at 09:02 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

Certain people just need to realise that this sort of comment has no inherent value and so might aswell not be made to begin with.

Actually, his comment is really the crux of everything. PvE/PvP compatibility becomes a non-issue if you take into account the fact that spillover changes barely effect PvE in a critical manner.

Yes, there are some changes to PvE as a result of PvP. They haven't killed the PvE game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nekretaal

It's a legit complaint of the casual player that he's constantly getting nerfed. "Wtf why dont my skills work?" "Why do I need to grind to get new skills (gear) and rework my whole build just because of some issue in a pvp game that I dont even play?"

Guild Wars was designed with both aspects in mind. It is the players', casual or not, fault if they can't understand that just because they don't play part of the same game, doesn't mean it isn't still there. If a player can't take the fact that the game is more than their insular preferred area, oh well. Time to realize that having to change a skill on rare occasion isn't really an issue since players should adapt their builds to different areas anyway.

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

25 Sep 2007 at 09:11 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Yes, there are some changes to PvE as a result of PvP. They haven't killed the PvE game.

Of course you are correct, but try explaining that to all the dumbasses who posted in the soul reaping thread.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

25 Sep 2007 at 09:45 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Of course you are correct, but try explaining that to all the dumbasses who posted in the soul reaping thread.

I tried, didn't work. I think the biggest point of that debate was that necros, and minion masters, are still run often. You just have to have a somewhat sensible bar (no Fiends + all energy skills and no management) that's almost realistically maintained when compared to other classes.

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

25 Sep 2007 at 09:55 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I tried, didn't work. I think the biggest point of that debate was that necros, and minion masters, are still run often. You just have to have a somewhat sensible bar (no Fiends + all energy skills and no management) that's almost realistically maintained when compared to other classes.

I remember that thread, it was HUGE. All those peeps whining about energy really don't want to play a monk or a mesmer. Anyways, without skill balancing PvP will be gone, and half of my fun I have playing GW would be gone with it.

Besides, aNet did its best to cater to the PvE crowd by making PvE only skills (VERY smart move imo), which I never use btw because they feel like cheating. I'd rather practice on monsters what I like to do to real players in the arenas.

Sab

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

25 Sep 2007 at 09:58 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

Certain people just need to realise that this sort of comment has no inherent value and so might aswell not be made to begin with.

- Skill balancing is extremely important to PvP
- Some of these balances affect PvE
- However, the effect on PvE is minor
- Lots of people don't understand my first and third point. That's the cause of great debate, seeing as skill balancing is one of the few points where PvE and PvP cross over.

What do you disagree with?

Kas

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

25 Sep 2007 at 12:21 - 76

Yes. PVP and PVE are incompatible. Not because of mechanisms, not because changed affect both sides if they are done due to PVP.
The real reason why PVP and PVE are incompatible lies in the human mindset and the lack of ability to respect another side except for their own. Just read every single post in the PVP Forums here and you'll see a strong distaste for PVE Players, they're treated as inferiors, retards and morons which are too dumb to breathe.
And just to be fair, look at the PVE Forums and see how they bitch about PVP being all elitist and stuff. That's the true reason why PVP and PVE is incompatible, both sides hate each other with a passion and playing together is impossible because, quite frankly... PVE Players are utter retards and PVP Players are ignorant elitist pricks with ego problems... or something along these lines

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

25 Sep 2007 at 13:21 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kas

Yes. PVP and PVE are incompatible. Not because of mechanisms, not because changed affect both sides if they are done due to PVP.
The real reason why PVP and PVE are incompatible lies in the human mindset and the lack of ability to respect another side except for their own. Just read every single post in the PVP Forums here and you'll see a strong distaste for PVE Players, they're treated as inferiors, retards and morons which are too dumb to breathe.
And just to be fair, look at the PVE Forums and see how they bitch about PVP being all elitist and stuff. That's the true reason why PVP and PVE is incompatible, both sides hate each other with a passion and playing together is impossible because, quite frankly... PVE Players are utter retards and PVP Players are ignorant elitist pricks with ego problems... or something along these lines

Meh such rubbish, in that case I should hate myself while myself hates me back, with a passion

The reason why PvP and PvE aren't compatible is because theyre entirely different ballgames, nothing else.

Kas

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

25 Sep 2007 at 13:47 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Meh such rubbish

There are times when I wonder why there are such notes like "Do not put cat in microwave" and "Careful, knive may be sharp" but everyonce in a while, people like bungusmaximus come along and show me why those notes exist.

So here is, just for you, your sign:
"Careful, post may contain generalisations and sarcasm"

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

25 Sep 2007 at 13:52 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kas

There are times when I wonder why there are such notes like "Do not put cat in microwave" and "Careful, knive may be sharp" but everyonce in a while, people like bungusmaximus come along and show me why those notes exist.

So here is, just for you, your sign:
"Careful, post may contain generalisations and sarcasm"

ROFLMBO, well, 1) there are enough people on these boards that seriously think the way you described above and 2) sarcasm is hard to spot when I can't hear the tone of your voice/see your face.

I never put my cat in the microwave though, I kicked him out once because he was searching it for scraps

Terra Xin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2006

New Zealand

Me/R

25 Sep 2007 at 16:18 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kas

The real reason why PVP and PVE are incompatible lies in the human mindset and the lack of ability to respect another side except for their own. Just read every single post in the PVP Forums here and you'll see a strong distaste for PVE Players, they're treated as inferiors, retards and morons which are too dumb to breathe.
And just to be fair, look at the PVE Forums and see how they bitch about PVP being all elitist and stuff. That's the true reason why PVP and PVE is incompatible, both sides hate each other with a passion and playing together is impossible because, quite frankly... PVE Players are utter retards and PVP Players are ignorant elitist pricks with ego problems... or something along these lines

That's just a major failure on the community's part. People argue from two very different perspectives, it's a waste of time trying to resolve their issues.

There's nothing left for us to do with Guildwars at this time, it will always be playable for many years to come, but in terms of trying to improve the game's quality, its easier to put our hopes on GW2 to fix it all. If GW2 doesn't improve on GW1 flaws then I'll completely lose it on these forums... Anet has been good, though.