I know they have said NO. But I was wondering what everyones opinion was on why. Would you prefer to run with 7 heros if you could? What reasons would you not?
My reasons for:
There are times when it is very hard to get a party. Henchmen often just dont cut it for certain quest, and I can never seem to find a person to help. (Fire and Pain) Henches often do not have useful builds, charge as an elite is not so good.
My reasons against:
It could cause overpowered teams, & heros and one player, with 8 pets, and a MM, so 16 member team +10 minions = 26 member team. It would over simplify certain areas. Getting Norn/asura/dwarf/ebon points would be a lot easier to grind and they arent that hard now. (course that could be a reason for as well)
ok your thoughts.
~the rat~
A discussion on 7 heroes
legion_rat
agrios
7 heroes? It would be just too good to be true. I dont believe it will be implemented. Never.
But the possibilities are fantastic.
But the possibilities are fantastic.
ThyNecromancer
I really would like to take 7 heroes in my party. If I get the armor for them and weapons, why not let me see them in my "pimping" party all at once instead of 3 at a time.
I usually take 2 mm heroes, with up to 20 minions, 2 of which are golems, they are more powerfull than 1 mm with pets.
20 minions and the full party of 8 = 28 in the party, more if I would take pets. The possibility of 8 with pets & minions would be a total of 36 in the party at most.
Drawback from all of this, less time needed to farm all these stupid rep points per character instead of the account like the faction points are (factions lux and kur), and well... 36 in a party.
I usually take 2 mm heroes, with up to 20 minions, 2 of which are golems, they are more powerfull than 1 mm with pets.
20 minions and the full party of 8 = 28 in the party, more if I would take pets. The possibility of 8 with pets & minions would be a total of 36 in the party at most.
Drawback from all of this, less time needed to farm all these stupid rep points per character instead of the account like the faction points are (factions lux and kur), and well... 36 in a party.
Isileth
I have to disagree with your reason against. Its no different than 8 players doing it. Having 7 heroes wouldnt suddenly unlock an ultimate build. Anything that can be done with heroes can be done better (assuming a decent level of player skill) by a player.
For me the main reason im for them is simply not everyone is a hardcore player.
Some people can only play for 30-40 mins at a time. Now if they spend the time to form a team of players that can eat up 10 mins of time easily. More if they are looking for a specific build or prof.
Henchmen just dont cut it when compared to heroes and players. They are a lot better in GW:EN but they still arent the same. So it forces people to either take a lesser team, or to take up a good portion of time they could be playing the game just to get a team.
Now the main con to most people (I say this because people have posted this reason elsewhere) is they think it will reduce the number of players they can team with. However I really dont think it will have a huge impact. Those that prefer to play with real people will carry on playing with real people. Those that play with h/h will just get a little boost (Nothing that makes it better than going with a good team of players but enough to make it no longer a punishment for those that dont have enough time to form a team).
For me the main reason im for them is simply not everyone is a hardcore player.
Some people can only play for 30-40 mins at a time. Now if they spend the time to form a team of players that can eat up 10 mins of time easily. More if they are looking for a specific build or prof.
Henchmen just dont cut it when compared to heroes and players. They are a lot better in GW:EN but they still arent the same. So it forces people to either take a lesser team, or to take up a good portion of time they could be playing the game just to get a team.
Now the main con to most people (I say this because people have posted this reason elsewhere) is they think it will reduce the number of players they can team with. However I really dont think it will have a huge impact. Those that prefer to play with real people will carry on playing with real people. Those that play with h/h will just get a little boost (Nothing that makes it better than going with a good team of players but enough to make it no longer a punishment for those that dont have enough time to form a team).
ForgeWhelp
Personally, I sorta like the idea of being able to USE all of these heros we get, but I think they'd have to increase the difficulty level if they allowed 7 heros. As well 7 heros would all but kill the need to ever play with humans if you didn't want to.
Sab
It would be nice, but ANet already said no.
By the way, the "1 person + 7 heroes = overpowered" argument is complete rubbish. A decent human team is miles better than a team of heroes. A full-player party is capable of rolling through any area in the game with no troubles, especially now with PvE skills. So, you cannot say that the game is balanced for human teams but not hero teams.
By the way, the "1 person + 7 heroes = overpowered" argument is complete rubbish. A decent human team is miles better than a team of heroes. A full-player party is capable of rolling through any area in the game with no troubles, especially now with PvE skills. So, you cannot say that the game is balanced for human teams but not hero teams.
nugzta
There is no valid reason for against, 7 heroes party is not implemented just to make PuG carebears happy.
Lord Natural
They probably don't do it to encourage the "buddy" system. Unfortunately most people don't bother and just take the 4 hench. I for one would find PvE much more interesting if I could make full team builds, rather than builds which are compensating for taking 4 mediocre hench along.
Zahr Dalsk
7 heroes would not imbalance the game. A team of 8 humans from an alliance running a coordinated team build will always be much better.
Will it ruin the social aspect? Face it, a lot of us already play H/H and will NOT go PUG. I socialize in towns. I do not socialize in the middle of the Gate of Pain. I only go with other players when I'm helping alliance members with missions or farming dungeons with alliance members.
7 heroes would be great and more fun than the current 3 cap, it would not cause any imbalance that an 8-man guild team could not already achieve, and it would not hurt the PUG players.
Henchmen are built-in obsolescence. We do not need them anymore.
Will it ruin the social aspect? Face it, a lot of us already play H/H and will NOT go PUG. I socialize in towns. I do not socialize in the middle of the Gate of Pain. I only go with other players when I'm helping alliance members with missions or farming dungeons with alliance members.
7 heroes would be great and more fun than the current 3 cap, it would not cause any imbalance that an 8-man guild team could not already achieve, and it would not hurt the PUG players.
Henchmen are built-in obsolescence. We do not need them anymore.
Aera Lure
I'm bored of hero/hench play. I look back to the days in Prophecies when I spent the majority of my time playing with other players, be they in a guild or in a random group. I simply dont see that anymore and I miss it. Takes a lot of coordination to get a guild group of that size together to do something in PvE, so it has more to do with the larger community preferences than with any given guild.
I say bring out the option to play with all heroes anyway. There's no going back from where we are currently at, so why not? Its not inherently more powerful than an organized party and it has no effect on the social dynamic since there are already so many who prefer hero/hench play when a friend isnt on. Even I would like once and a while to build and manage a full team.
I say bring out the option to play with all heroes anyway. There's no going back from where we are currently at, so why not? Its not inherently more powerful than an organized party and it has no effect on the social dynamic since there are already so many who prefer hero/hench play when a friend isnt on. Even I would like once and a while to build and manage a full team.
MirageMaster
Id love to have full party heros my self,not because its overpowering(after investing so much in them and in anet i think we deserve it anyway) but because i just simply like them and want them with me doing quests.
The real reason you all forgeting is that anet has this stupid designer vision of theirs that say 7 heros is a NO.Damn i hate them for it!
The real reason you all forgeting is that anet has this stupid designer vision of theirs that say 7 heros is a NO.Damn i hate them for it!
JeniM
If your saying party size could be a downside look at the 3 necro heroes we have
Thats 30 minions in a corpse rich area, i always take 3 MM on Siege Devourer runs in Charr land . . not huge point to taking that many minions but its fun to see
Thats 30 minions in a corpse rich area, i always take 3 MM on Siege Devourer runs in Charr land . . not huge point to taking that many minions but its fun to see
dark_prince2023
I say take it back further to the time before Hero/Hench where evan there it was alot better IMO people griped but still played with everyone.
Esan
For the love of god, will these threads please die already? We have gone over every conceivable point twenty times already.
BLOODGOAT
They say it isn't in the game's dynamics to make 7 heroes parties part of the game, but have they really stopped and looked at the level of people playing? I mean, come on, I'm running around Abaddon's Mouth watching these kids get torn-the-hell-apart because they still aren't infused, and don't even know what infusion is. My concern isn't that they aren't infused, but rather how the hell they even got past a mission like THK (assuming they did bonus) WITHOUT infusion. Was the person just proving themselves a nuisance to that team, as he is proving a nuisance, now, to mine?
I don't really think ANet has a clear idea why we've been so fervently requesting the modification to the game, but it's because the hardcore and seasoned gamers who know what they're doing and want to do it as fast as possible are sick-and-bloody-tired of sitting in an outpost for twenty minutes just trying to assemble moderately coordinated team which would probably still have a Wammo with Frenzy and Mending.
As much as I hate henchmen, I still use them because even that dimwit Stefan is still smarter than 90% of random PUGs. Why? Because when I ping an actio, he actually LISTENS. 3 heroes + 4 henchmen is really no different from having 7 heroes save for the fact of CUSTOMIZATION, which really is not a problem because as mentioned before, "Charge!" is not a suitable elite to be packing when you're trying to cap skills at Perdition Rock *I'm looking at you again Stefan*. Hell, I'm already running 3 monks and 3 nukes in my H/H parties... I don't see how I could get any more (or less) overpowered.
Until they release definitive proof as to why they simply CAN NOT institute a full hero party, with all the overwhelming evidence that people refuse to play with a PUG simply because the people are idiots, I won't be satisfied.
/rant
I don't really think ANet has a clear idea why we've been so fervently requesting the modification to the game, but it's because the hardcore and seasoned gamers who know what they're doing and want to do it as fast as possible are sick-and-bloody-tired of sitting in an outpost for twenty minutes just trying to assemble moderately coordinated team which would probably still have a Wammo with Frenzy and Mending.
As much as I hate henchmen, I still use them because even that dimwit Stefan is still smarter than 90% of random PUGs. Why? Because when I ping an actio, he actually LISTENS. 3 heroes + 4 henchmen is really no different from having 7 heroes save for the fact of CUSTOMIZATION, which really is not a problem because as mentioned before, "Charge!" is not a suitable elite to be packing when you're trying to cap skills at Perdition Rock *I'm looking at you again Stefan*. Hell, I'm already running 3 monks and 3 nukes in my H/H parties... I don't see how I could get any more (or less) overpowered.
Until they release definitive proof as to why they simply CAN NOT institute a full hero party, with all the overwhelming evidence that people refuse to play with a PUG simply because the people are idiots, I won't be satisfied.
/rant
dark_prince2023
Esan shhhhh look to the left of my post and you will find the answers you seek to the questions you ask! I still use Mending oh well I'm still a noob. I've been playing for about a month before the game came out and just don't like to change most of the time. Untill march of this year I was still at THK. Of course I don't play that often and was out of the country on bussiness for about 6 months.
Vinraith
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Originally Posted by dark_prince2023
I say take it back further to the time before Hero/Hench where evan there it was alot better IMO people griped but still played with everyone.
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For the bazillionth time, you can't force people to PUG, we'd just stop playing altogether. I really think this point can't be overmade considering the way things seem to be going with GW2.
6am3 Fana71c
Wait, what did Anet said, why don't they unlock that option, for playing with 7 heroes? Sorry, I am not well informed. I am just curious...it's probably some BS, since it's obvious it could be done.
Pkest
I'd just like them to stop being so hypocritical by saying 'no never! not how the game was designed! would break the game! It could never work! etc' while allowing hero dropping via 2nd accounts or friends or services.
But I really don't feel like Gaile is just blowing smoke here and I don't think we'll ever be able to run full hero parties with our own heroes from our own single account. And it saddens me. I really felt like GW was the only gane I needed for over a year and a half but I've grown tired of the changes due to 'original design and them ignoring the will of the playerbase for the sake of 'design vision'.
Frankly I bought Gwen thinking there was no way they could add all the new heroes without allowing full hero parties. So that is just another reason why I'm taking a break from Guild Wars and probably won't bother with GW2. (Headache causing graphical 'features', Computer crashing ooze nonsense 3 levels deep in a dungeon, and other Gwen induced bugs that haven't been fixed despite numerous complaints are some of the other reasons)
Yes, of course they can do what they want with their game but I think they've 'teased' the last dime they'll ever get out of me.
But I really don't feel like Gaile is just blowing smoke here and I don't think we'll ever be able to run full hero parties with our own heroes from our own single account. And it saddens me. I really felt like GW was the only gane I needed for over a year and a half but I've grown tired of the changes due to 'original design and them ignoring the will of the playerbase for the sake of 'design vision'.
Frankly I bought Gwen thinking there was no way they could add all the new heroes without allowing full hero parties. So that is just another reason why I'm taking a break from Guild Wars and probably won't bother with GW2. (Headache causing graphical 'features', Computer crashing ooze nonsense 3 levels deep in a dungeon, and other Gwen induced bugs that haven't been fixed despite numerous complaints are some of the other reasons)
Yes, of course they can do what they want with their game but I think they've 'teased' the last dime they'll ever get out of me.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by dark_prince2023
I say take it back further to the time before Hero/Hench where evan there it was alot better IMO people griped but still played with everyone.
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Retribution X
I'd just like it because I play an assassin, and no humans want to play with, "Stupid assassins"...
And I've found that my hero's don't seem to mind though.
And I've found that my hero's don't seem to mind though.
mage767
The recipe is really simple:
Normal Mode = 3 heroes anywhere
Hard Mode = 7 heroes anywhere
...is this hard to implement? BTW did you guys notice how favor is down the sink? Most of the time, it's the hardcore players who keep favor up.
Normal Mode = 3 heroes anywhere
Hard Mode = 7 heroes anywhere
...is this hard to implement? BTW did you guys notice how favor is down the sink? Most of the time, it's the hardcore players who keep favor up.
Onarik Amrak
If I could, I would. Then, I won't have to deal with random PuGs.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Retribution X
And I've found that my hero's don't seem to mind though.
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Most important in my opinion is that they allow you to go AFK in the middle of a mission for as long as you want. It's the closest thing you'll get to a pause button.
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Originally Posted by mage767
BTW did you guys notice how favor is down the sink? Most of the time, it's the hardcore players who keep favor up.
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Charrbane
If it was up to me, you'd be able to take 7 heroes and make any NPC henchie into a hero if you wanted. I wouldn't mind turning Devona, Mhenlo and Cynn into Heroes but that's another story. 
Metal Herc
I just wouldn't like the idea of making builds for all the heros, then trying to manage them all :S
odly
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Most important in my opinion is that they allow you to go AFK in the middle of a mission for as long as you want. It's the closest thing you'll get to a pause button.
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AFK, Kid is crying, Will be back in 45min.
How long till they kick me do you think ?
..L..
I like both aspects of getting 7 heroes in a party and removing heroes completely from the game.
For one, I'd love to work out my teambuilds on 7 heroes it would make the game a lot easier and fun for me.
Though I liked the way things were at the start better, sure pugs sucked but it was more fun more challenging you could contribute more then you could now, make friends, enemies or just have a few laughs. Sure heroes dont complain, heroes listen, heroes do whatever you tell them to do in the aspects of builds, targeting and flagging. But heroes dont socialise with you, heroes dont make you laugh, heroes dont give a shit about what you do, heroes dont applaud you if you saved the day, heroes dont give you that one drop you wanted but someone else got it and gave it to you for free because he liked you, heroes cant replace the fun you have with real people.
For me they ruined guildwars a little bit, if you dont like playing with humans because of their incompitence go play a singleplayer game.
For one, I'd love to work out my teambuilds on 7 heroes it would make the game a lot easier and fun for me.
Though I liked the way things were at the start better, sure pugs sucked but it was more fun more challenging you could contribute more then you could now, make friends, enemies or just have a few laughs. Sure heroes dont complain, heroes listen, heroes do whatever you tell them to do in the aspects of builds, targeting and flagging. But heroes dont socialise with you, heroes dont make you laugh, heroes dont give a shit about what you do, heroes dont applaud you if you saved the day, heroes dont give you that one drop you wanted but someone else got it and gave it to you for free because he liked you, heroes cant replace the fun you have with real people.
For me they ruined guildwars a little bit, if you dont like playing with humans because of their incompitence go play a singleplayer game.
wetsparks
Quote:
| (Headache causing graphical 'features', Computer crashing ooze nonsense 3 levels deep in a dungeon, and other Gwen induced bugs that haven't been fixed despite numerous complaints are some of the other reasons) |
Quote:
| Though I liked the way things were at the start better, sure pugs sucked but it was more fun more challenging you could contribute more then you could now, make friends, enemies or just have a few laughs. Sure heroes dont complain, heroes listen, heroes do whatever you tell them to do in the aspects of builds, targeting and flagging. But heroes dont socialise with you, heroes dont make you laugh, heroes dont give a shit about what you do, heroes dont applaud you if you saved the day, heroes dont give you that one drop you wanted but someone else got it and gave it to you for free because he liked you, heroes cant replace the fun you have with real people. |
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by ..L..
But heroes dont socialise with you, heroes dont make you laugh, heroes dont give a shit about what you do, heroes dont applaud you if you saved the day, heroes dont give you that one drop you wanted but someone else got it and gave it to you for free because he liked you,
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..L..
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Originally Posted by wetsparks
If they were easy to diagnose and fix, they would have been spotted before the game was released and fixed or fixed in the first couple days after release. Heroes also don't draw certain parts of the human anatomy on the map, talk in leet speak because they use the uber leet mending+healing breeze+vigourous spirit build, they don't ruin missions because they don't want to target the right enemy but that other group looks good.....the bad things about pugs go on and on, but the bad things about heroes are slim (the ai and nothing else). Don't get me wrong, real people can be fun, but when they are stupid 9 year olds, and there is no way to find out before hand, it sucks.
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Maybe they should implement both changes for a week and see wich one suits players better.
..L..
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Well, neither do most PUGs, sadly.
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Voltar
It's too bad that Anet would be so obstinate about it. It's really the way to go. I do get a kick when people post that 7 heroes would kill PuGs...the people who would run 7H groups are the H&Hers now (for instance...me). Seven real (and proficient) people will always do better than a 7H group but there's too many variables to always get that kind of awesome group. It really makes plain sense to allow 7h groups. It would allow us to really get some use out of group build ideas.
The only valid reason that I could see Anet sticking to the 3H limit is to make the people that created the hench builds not cry. I will admit that the GW:EN hench are pretty good (for hench).
The only valid reason that I could see Anet sticking to the 3H limit is to make the people that created the hench builds not cry. I will admit that the GW:EN hench are pretty good (for hench).
Phaern Majes
Find a friend then you can run 2 people and 6 heroes...problem solved.
Wrath of m0o
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Originally Posted by ..L..
For me they ruined guildwars a little bit, if you dont like playing with humans because of their incompitence go play a singleplayer game.
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Anyway, This game is great because we have options.
Yes if you like playing and socializing with other players, great you can.
If you want to play solo and work on the things you are working on, great you can.
If you want to do Mallyx at 4:30 am, oh well you cant.
Reason i dont play with pug's is
1. Time, i get missions done the 1st time(mostly)
2. If i want to go cook a steak, and smoke a cigar, my team has no problem waiting for me.
3. Elite missions have to be run with a "Certian Build" or at least alot of people think so.
What if my character isnt what PuG team say's is needed to complete this mission. I for one, like to try different things. What i like one week isnt always the same the next week.
Although i will admit, when guildwars came out, i found myself in alot of PuG groups, but as someone in this thread said, everyone in the game was in the same campaign, and we were all consolidated to a few towns. Finding a group was rather painless, and everyone in the game was almost equal in experience.
I can finish Nightfall in less than two days, with hero/hench. If i was to try to do this with a PuG group, i would guess it might take somewhere between 2-3 weeks. Not everyone is in an Elite guild that can get 8/8 elite players all on TS/Vent.
Now, why i have 25 Heroes and can only use 3 of them.. is beyond me.
Does only having 3/8 hero's tip the scale and make me go play with a PuG group, No.
Guild groups have 8/8 custom builds, why shouldnt everyone?
Engel the Fallen
Gaile said a few times that the game was not balanced for 7 hero parties. Odds are like always she will read this then deny it, but a search will find it here.
That being said it is a easy to figure out why we cannot have full hero parties. Heroes are better than real players.
That being said it is a easy to figure out why we cannot have full hero parties. Heroes are better than real players.
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by Phaern Majes
Find a friend then you can run 2 people and 6 heroes...problem solved.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen
Gaile said a few times that the game was not balanced for 7 hero parties.
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If 7 heroes are imbalanced than logically an 8-man guild group would not be allowed, correct?
enxa
I wouldnt like to see that. 7 heroes would be just plain boring. And its a nice thing that GW:EN actually encourages PUGing through a slightly different gameplay, and to notice that PUGing isnt really as bad as it sounds. To see the effort ANet put into this go down the drain would be just sad.
..L..
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Originally Posted by Wrath of m0o
What do you call Polymock?
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Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen
Gaile said a few times that the game was not balanced for 7 hero parties. Odds are like always she will read this then deny it, but a search will find it here.
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Originally Posted by ..L..
True but I wasnt referring to getting the items...
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