A discussion on 7 heroes - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Sleeper Service

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

CULT

10 Jul 2009 at 21:45 - 2245

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

I think the poll shows us how people feel. Now we just have to Q.Q to anet like everyone else does until we get it.

Send 1 email every day to Anet for the next year. Maybe that will have some effect. If people are too lazy to do that, then they don't want 7 heroes that badly.

PS: I don't want 7 heroes that badly.

Good thing about GW 2 is you need no support to truely solo. Bad thing is you might not be able to get the best loot possible.

Thing is, for a lot of the people pushing for this, loot is not an issue or even a want.

Sword Hammer Axe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

Look up.

Kurzick Conflagration Unit [KCU].

W/

10 Jul 2009 at 22:17 - 2246

Already got tons of overpowered ideas in my head. + it would give me a better reason to use heroes I almost never use like the sin and the derv heroes XD

However the overpoweredness is too much. Maybe make it a possibility in certain elite areas like Urgoz, Kanaxai, no idea how to make this for Slaver's since you have to pass through another area there, UW and FoW since those places are impossible to do alone and you need to plan those areas ahead for eons >.<

HuntMaster Avatar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

Around

Pillar's of Earth [ROCK]

W/

10 Jul 2009 at 23:19 - 2247

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

Thing is, for a lot of the people pushing for this, loot is not an issue or even a want.

Never said it was to begin with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

Already got tons of overpowered ideas in my head. + it would give me a better reason to use heroes I almost never use like the sin and the derv heroes XD

However the overpoweredness is too much. Maybe make it a possibility in certain elite areas like Urgoz, Kanaxai, no idea how to make this for Slaver's since you have to pass through another area there, UW and FoW since those places are impossible to do alone and you need to plan those areas ahead for eons >.<

7 heroes is not overpowered at all. Is 8 players overpowered? Same thing except 8 players in theory, are better than 7 heroes +1 player.

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

10 Jul 2009 at 23:56 - 2248

I am jumping into this discussion very late. I am basically a very shy person who borders on agrophobic I tend to take a long time to acquire online friends, which I feel I have with my current guildmates. That being said, there are times when I would just like to play by myself. That is no way an insult to my guildmates, it' just me being me. I feel it an honor that the remaininig members of our guild accept me as I am and I feel the same way towards them also. I guess we have acheived a real freindship that we accept each other as we are, thanks to my guildmates.

EDIT: I guess that means I would like 7 heroes to work when I want to.

JaiGaia

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

House of JaiGaia

D/

11 Jul 2009 at 03:16 - 2249

Ok this thread [which has been ongoing forever] is good because it means this is still a very good debate to this day, and even more so as the new MMO's come and go and GW continues to see decline in activity something like the 7 heroes idea is something that should definitely get more looked into.

Heroes didnt break the game, the company just never expected the impact on its game. however the more they compensated the more it started leaning towards this being an eventuality the players would want and is continually something that definitely would be of consideration in todays players. Players screamed game breaking blah blah blah, but when ursan became the standard look at how long they took to finally bring some kind of balance to it same w/ SF sins .... I think 7 heroes would bring back the actual challenge to the game for many reasons but lets not forget their inability to use PVE only skills which brings back that majestic feeling we had before they were introduced when synergizing ur team was important and tweaking to perfection.

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

11 Jul 2009 at 03:48 - 2250

Look at the ratio.
Anet, plz plz plz plz plz plz let 7 heroes in the next content update.

Nerel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2008

Australia, what you want my home address?

[CAT]

Mo/

11 Jul 2009 at 04:54 - 2251

Voted No, simply put, anything that encourages solo play seems inappropriate for a game like Guild Wars. Hero and hench is always there if you need it, borrowing a guildies heroes (or using a second account) if you really need six heroes is an option too.

HuntMaster Avatar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

Around

Pillar's of Earth [ROCK]

W/

11 Jul 2009 at 05:05 - 2252

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

Voted No, simply put, anything that encourages solo play seems inappropriate for a game like Guild Wars. Hero and hench is always there if you need it, borrowing a guildies heroes (or using a second account) if you really need six heroes is an option too.

Then blame the creators of the game for putting the idea in our heads to begin with. Guildwars encourages solo play and team play. In other words, it encourages you to play the game how you want to play it and not by someone elses standard. The game always encouraged solo play in PvE except a few of the missions.

Although the term "Solo" in guildwars is far different than in other games. Solo in this game means with H/H and not alone. Although that never stopped us.

headlesshobbs

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

11 Jul 2009 at 05:18 - 2253

I can't support having 7 heroes because of what this does to the current game balance as a whole. Maybe if we were able to select them for hardmode, this would pan out.

Also you got to remember all the work they put in when they included henches. Knocking them out of the game is never gonna happen and if you can't do with that, get another player with his own crew to help.

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

11 Jul 2009 at 05:56 - 2254

Quote:

Originally Posted by headlesshobbs

Also you got to remember all the work they put in when they included henches. Knocking them out of the game is never gonna happen and if you can't do with that, get another player with his own crew to help.

They made Alessia a whammo in the norn fighting tournament just to spite her shittiness.
So much for "work" when the company themselves jokes about how crappy their creation is.

I only ever use henchies because they're the only ai option.

refer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2009

US

11 Jul 2009 at 06:20 - 2255

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monk of Myst

My other argument, if we can only use 3, when why do we have so many heroes? It's not like it's going to take 10 minutes to change the hero's build. If they only wanted us to use 3, then they shouldn't have given us so many heroes.

Heros weren't not part of the core game but maybe if they were you wouldn't see so many. Plus the storyline participation they have comes into play.

Nerel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2008

Australia, what you want my home address?

[CAT]

Mo/

11 Jul 2009 at 12:26 - 2256

Why so many different heroes available? Because some people like to run three heroes of the same profession, obviously. Less obvious would be that some players actually care about their hero's appearance, more heroes equals more choice. Don't believe me? Just search the forums for "Livia" and your screen will be dripping with fan boy drool. Olias get's no such love, ugly rat faced bastard that he is.

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

11 Jul 2009 at 15:07 - 2257

Lol who revived this old and dead and useless to keep trying thread again? Anet has said NO! They have moved on, so, why keep beating a dead horse? You ain't getting 7 heroes hahahahaahah.

Tomm

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

W/R

11 Jul 2009 at 15:21 - 2258

Yes, definitely!

Even better would be if you could use your other characters as heroes, so you can level them together, and farm points together.

Of course, there should be harder missions then, which you cannot complete only with heroes, but with real people.

But for some secondary quests and farming points, it would be great.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

11 Jul 2009 at 18:25 - 2259

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Lol who revived this old and dead and useless to keep trying thread again? Anet has said NO! They have moved on, so, why keep beating a dead horse? You ain't getting 7 heroes hahahahaahah.

I did. Anet said NO to many things in the past, but they delivered. Extra storage is only one example.

It's a wanted feature for the following reasons:

- the population is spread over 3 continents and after 4 years less people are playing

- no forced pugging, no long wait times

- 7 heroes would bring more brain food in the form of team builds and will open up new strats and what not.

- it will simply give a more fun gaming experience and thus will enrich the game

Till this day no valid counter arguments can be given.

- the system has already been made when Anet was working on heroes, they even tested with 7 heroes.

- They won't fill up the screen as it's all the user's choice. Put small interface on, hide hero bars etc.

- They wouldn't be more overpowered than all the stuff we already have ingame. Besides that, players can already use 6 heroes.

- heroes are here since nightfall got released and the playerbase switched to h/h overnight. The players made that choice, pugs killed pugs.

- The multiplayer aspect of this game is not in danger, as players find eachother in guilds etc. to play competitive PvP or cooperative PvE.

leetLoLa

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2009

Pawn!

Who Are You [wAu]

W/Mo

11 Jul 2009 at 18:38 - 2260

yea lol gogo anet

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

11 Jul 2009 at 18:58 - 2261

Quote:

Till this day no valid counter arguments can be given.

lol do you know how many times that stale and dead horse quote has been stated?

There has been a valid counter and it's "Anet said NO!" and the other is "There are no resources for it and Anet gave reasons for not doing so plenty of times that are valid because ANET SAID SO! (remember the law of your mother or father? When the said something it was law and the rule?) well Anet is your mother here

" Anet is putting all excess resources into GW2, not some silliness to add extra heroes to an already EASY game. No use making it EASIER you already have it TOO EASY as it is. So, yep plenty of valid counter claims of FACTS which are much bigger and higher than arguements. FACTS are truisms, arguments are nothing more than fiddle faddle between two or more idiots.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

11 Jul 2009 at 19:16 - 2262

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

There has been a valid counter and it's "Anet said NO!" and the other is "There are no resources for it and Anet gave reasons for not doing so plenty of times that are valid because ANET SAID SO! (remember the law of your mother or father? When the said something it was law and the rule?) well Anet is your mother here

" Anet is putting all excess resources into GW2, not some silliness to add extra heroes to an already EASY game. No use making it EASIER you already have it TOO EASY as it is. So, yep plenty of valid counter claims of FACTS which are much bigger and higher than arguements. FACTS are truisms, arguments are nothing more than fiddle faddle between two or more idiots.

Anet my mother lol, what are you on? We are customers and play a game made by Anet. If we think the product can be improved, you're not gonna stop us expressing our views and arguments. You're welcome to state your counter arguments, but they're pretty weak so far.

No can be changed to yes, Anet proved that many times in the past so you can't blame people for trying.

And do your howework better, the system already exists, the quote is here somewhere on guru.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

11 Jul 2009 at 22:50 - 2263

The thing with ANet saying "no" to things like extra storage and hairstylists was "we can't because it's not possible". Well, apparently now it's possible to do those things, apparently.

I feel that the 7 heroes situation is much more of a "we don't want to" kind of thing. Many a developer is stubborn, and ANet isn't a whole lot different.

Honestly I'd only want 7 heroes for vanity purposes. I can already see 99.5% of the game by myself, and all I need for the other .5% is a friend to join my party - who can leave at the start of joining the area if he so wishes, since heroes stay.

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

12 Jul 2009 at 00:43 - 2264

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

"There are no resources for it and Anet gave reasons for not doing so plenty of times that are valid because ANET SAID SO! (remember the law of your mother or father? When the said something it was law and the rule?) well Anet is your mother here

"

In that case, since our "mother" (ANet) relies on us (their customers) so she can continue existing, all the more she should pay attention to what we have been telling her or one day she may just cease to exist.

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

12 Jul 2009 at 01:28 - 2265

I say they charge you all for 7 heroes. I'd be happy with you all losing money.

Master Knightfall

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

12 Jul 2009 at 01:34 - 2266

Well I hope they never allow 7 heroes myself. As Red said it's already way too easy with just 3. No use adding gasoline onto the fire.

Mokeiro

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2009

12 Jul 2009 at 08:42 - 2267

Players: ANET pls give us 7 heroes!
ANET: We can't, it's impossible

Players: ANET pls give us 7 heroes!
ANET: We can't, for the sake of pugs

Players: ANET pls give us 7 heroes!
ANET: We can't, all our efforts are on GW2

Players: ANET pls give us 7 heroes!
ANET: We can't, too many variables

Players: ANET pls give us 7 heroes!
ANET: We can't, it's deep inside the code and could be dangerous

Players: ANET pls give us 7 heroes!
ANET: We can't, the game is not designed that way

Players: ANET pls give us 7 heroes!
ANET: We can't, God kill a kitten everytime anet listen to their customers.

Some stupid nerfs after and a "big" update

ANET: Fellow players, we are happy to announce we have raised heroes cap to 7 per player, now you can use full party heroes, oh, btw, to do that don't forget to move your ass to the online store and pay us 9.99$.

Players: ........................

Did the previous story remember you something?

superraptors

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2008

W/

12 Jul 2009 at 09:08 - 2268

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Well I hope they never allow 7 heroes myself. As Red said it's already way too easy with just 3. No use adding gasoline onto the fire.

so your saying u wouldnt rather breeze through areas easier, thats like gimping yourself....

Darkobra

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Scotland

Type like an idiot, I'll treat you like an idiot

E/Me

12 Jul 2009 at 09:42 - 2269

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

so your saying u wouldnt rather breeze through areas easier, thats like gimping yourself....

Some people like to play a game and not watch it.

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

12 Jul 2009 at 10:07 - 2270

The stupidest argument ever.

"It would be too easy".

Uhm. Hello? For UW/FoW/DoA, we already can use 6 necro heroes + 1 player, 4 paragons, necro healer and an order dervish. You just need a second character, either your alt account or a friend with heroes.

Besides, wouldn't 8 players be EVEN EASIER? Oh, wait, no, because people are idiots and most of them are worse than AI...

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

12 Jul 2009 at 10:08 - 2271

Its amazing some of the people supporting this is also the people who go on the other threads whining and moaning about how PvE skills and SF is ruining PvE and making the game too easy or how OP skills are making it impossible to find a group because everyone are doing farm builds....and yet going with 7 AI and watching them blow stuff up is perfectly fine.

I won't name names but the amount of personal agendas is just ridiculous.

As for 7 heroes, I don't really care anymore since 3 heroes are enough for pretty much everything. 7 heroes won't make much of a difference except removing the last player from duo discordway. Since GW is nearly dead anyways might as well let heroway take over the last few pug areas. The funny thing is that people will probably be complaining about overpowered assassins/monk soloing while they are playing "balanced" with 7 "other".

Sword Hammer Axe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

Look up.

Kurzick Conflagration Unit [KCU].

W/

12 Jul 2009 at 12:30 - 2272

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Besides, wouldn't 8 players be EVEN EASIER? Oh, wait, no, because people are idiots and most of them are worse than AI...

Damn straight. I still wouldn't mind 7 heroes. Wouldn't make much difference really. Besides if people think it's too easy they can always just take henchies. No one's forcing you to make it easier on yourself. Hell I even went out in a party of 6 instead of 8 while vq'ing that grawl area to the east of Droknar's Forge because it's too easy a place with 8-man team to me ^^

Nerel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2008

Australia, what you want my home address?

[CAT]

Mo/

12 Jul 2009 at 12:41 - 2273

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The thing with ANet saying "no" to things like extra storage and hairstylists was "we can't because it's not possible". Well, apparently now it's possible to do those things, apparently.

The difference between "not possible" and "possible" is a $9.99 US micro transaction. Credit cards, making the impossible, possible.

Improvavel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

12 Jul 2009 at 13:20 - 2274

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Besides, wouldn't 8 players be EVEN EASIER? Oh, wait, no, because people are idiots and most of them are worse than AI...

I guess this exactly their argument, with some variations.

Variation 1 - they suck and so, even with heroes, they need other players.

Variation 2 - they can't make friends for one reason and another, so the only way people would play with them is if they are forced by the game.

Variation 3 - they like to monk. Monking for AI isn't as fun. Monks also used to have a certain power before the advent of heroes they lost since, because every party needed a healer.

Variation 4 - you can't be l33t without an audience to marvel to your armor + weapon combo.

It interesting that they say that they want to play with other people since it is fun that way, but then the "others" that play with h/h don't think the same, and prefer to play alone.

I guess those that prefer to play alone are very uninteresting, so why would it be more fun to play with someone like that in the first place?

I can hardly stand playing GW on my own anymore, but I wouldn't pay with the large majority of the population out there, but I would certainly play with a few that are quite interesting people.

Of course those, have no problem finding a party with humans...

Improvavel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

12 Jul 2009 at 13:25 - 2275

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Its amazing some of the people supporting this is also the people who go on the other threads whining and moaning about how PvE skills and SF is ruining PvE and making the game too easy or how OP skills are making it impossible to find a group because everyone are doing farm builds....and yet going with 7 AI and watching them blow stuff up is perfectly fine. Apparently being able to /dance while playing the game is balanced while.

Because when you play with other people you don't see other stuff blowing even faster?

Last time I checked you had to move for heroes move - so you can as well pretend to be playing in a party of 8 people.

Quote:

As for 7 heroes, I don't really care anymore since 3 heroes are enough for pretty much everything. 7 heroes won't make much of a difference except removing the last player from duo discordway. Since GW is nearly dead anyways might as well let heroway take over the last few pug areas. The funny thing is that people will probably be complaining about overpowered assassins/monk soloing while they are playing "balanced" with 7 "other".

Again, when you are with heroes/henchies, you play your build and when you are with other people you play the other people build as well?

When I play earh shaker warrior with H/H, I go in micro PS on myself, call targets and press my skills to kill mobs.

When I play earh shaker warrior with 7 other people, I go, ask for PS on me if monk is slow, call targets and press my skills to kill mobs.

You do it differently?

volsung

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2006

E/

12 Jul 2009 at 13:30 - 2276

i have just one request/suggestion IF anet do make it possible to use 7heros, then please remove any suggestion that guildwars is a MMO, because in my mind human teams will truely become a thing of the past

Sword Hammer Axe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

Look up.

Kurzick Conflagration Unit [KCU].

W/

12 Jul 2009 at 16:35 - 2277

Quote:

Originally Posted by volsung

i have just one request/suggestion IF anet do make it possible to use 7heros, then please remove any suggestion that guildwars is a MMO, because in my mind human teams will truely become a thing of the past

I will join just as much up with human teams as I would with the 3-man hero thing. Hell even as much as before heroes were introduced XD

Dawgboy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Ohio

Antisocial Misfit

12 Jul 2009 at 16:52 - 2278

Quote:

Originally Posted by volsung

i have just one request/suggestion IF anet do make it possible to use 7heros, then please remove any suggestion that guildwars is a MMO, because in my mind human teams will truely become a thing of the past

In my mind human teams became a thing of the past about 3 years ago.
Even 7 crappy henchmen can outperform the average pug, so don't go blaming heroes if you can't find a party.

Trub

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Sitting in the guildhall, watching the wallows frolic.

Trinity of the ascended [SMS]+[Koss]+[TAM]=[ToA]

12 Jul 2009 at 17:29 - 2279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgboy

In my mind human teams became a thing of the past about 3 years ago.
Even 7 crappy henchmen can outperform the average pug, so don't go blaming heroes if you can't find a party.

^ Took the words right out of my mouth.
The real question should be....
What has happened to the players?
It is sad when someone can place a skill template on a hero, and by golly..that hero can run that bar better than a human (PUG) player???
Abbasi the hench in NF can solo 2 mandrigors, before the 'tank' that joined your group can get a hit in??
*sigh*
I'm going back to my guild hall.
gg

Sword Hammer Axe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

Look up.

Kurzick Conflagration Unit [KCU].

W/

12 Jul 2009 at 18:14 - 2280

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

I guess those that prefer to play alone are very uninteresting, so why would it be more fun to play with someone like that in the first place?

And here you need to define what makes people interessting. I'm curious of nature, and I actually find the people that it's seemingly hard to communicate with more interessting than the people who aren't, solely because they are tougher to interact with :P The more secretive a person is, the more secrets that person ought to have >

4thVariety

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

European Union

ADL

E/

12 Jul 2009 at 18:36 - 2281

It's never too late to ask someone from your alliance to fill up your group with three of his heroes and just leave at the start of your endeavor. 1+6 Heroes is stronger than 1 + 3 Heroes + 4 Hench, so shrug off Arenanet ignoring customer wishes and go for it.

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

12 Jul 2009 at 21:40 - 2282

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Because when you play with other people you don't see other stuff blowing even faster?

Last time I checked you had to move for heroes move - so you can as well pretend to be playing in a party of 8 people.

Again, when you are with heroes/henchies, you play your build and when you are with other people you play the other people build as well?

When I play earh shaker warrior with H/H, I go in micro PS on myself, call targets and press my skills to kill mobs.

When I play earh shaker warrior with 7 other people, I go, ask for PS on me if monk is slow, call targets and press my skills to kill mobs.

You do it differently?

Wow I have to MOVE to get the heroes to move! Its too hard, help me! [/sarcasm] I know! I can move in aggro range of monsters, then turn around to watch TV for half a minute and turn back to see all the monsters dead. Actually I could just flag the H/H forward a bit and then I don't even have to get in range!

Having to micro a PS once in a while doesn't mean that you are doing much more than soloing, the AI still does 99% of 7 people's work all by themselves.

But that wasn't what my last post was about, in fact I don't really care if ANet implement 7 heroes or not, because I could clearly see that there's not enough people for a lot of areas.

The thing that irks me are people whining about PvE skills and SF making the game too easy, while complaining about not having 7 heroes. Going out with perma and PvE skills with 7 players still takes more work/time/coordination than slapping on 7 heroes X-way and having them do all the work. So if they are going to implement 7 heroes those skills better be left alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

Damn straight. I still wouldn't mind 7 heroes. Wouldn't make much difference really. Besides if people think it's too easy they can always just take henchies. No one's forcing you to make it easier on yourself. Hell I even went out in a party of 6 instead of 8 while vq'ing that grawl area to the east of Droknar's Forge because it's too easy a place with 8-man team to me ^^

I hope you are not one of those people complaining about SF everyday, because the whole "don't like it, don't use it" argument is used in exactly the same way.

But as expected no one flamed you for using that argument here while if you do the same thing in the SF threads you will be called out instantly.

Sword Hammer Axe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

Look up.

Kurzick Conflagration Unit [KCU].

W/

12 Jul 2009 at 23:20 - 2283

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

I hope you are not one of those people complaining about SF everyday, because the whole "don't like it, don't use it" argument is used in exactly the same way.

But as expected no one flamed you for using that argument here while if you do the same thing in the SF threads you will be called out instantly.

I actually think my point spoke FOR SF didn't it? Or were you being sarcastic?

Well anyways I don't complain about SF. I rarely play my sin though but sometimes I do enjoy going Perma SF on it just for gags XD People can flame me as much as they want really. I stand by my beliefs until someone actually CONVINCES me that I'm wrong XD

Robbeh The Mad

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2009

AFK somewhere in Kryta

Raven Alliance

W/

12 Jul 2009 at 23:33 - 2284

I dont understand their reasoning for not allowing 7 hero teams as being over powered
If that's true they shouldnt allow 2 players + 6 heros teams to party together it's the same effect never mind that a halfway decent human player would be far superior to any hero