A discussion on 7 heroes

A-ha! There's the incentive for ANet to restrict the # of Heroes! It forces people to buy a second account to get around the 3-hero limit!!

Hench don't use the ideal builds...i assume this is obvious
So, if you replace a hench with a hero with the appropriate build (just copy paste from wiki^^) for the situation you need him for, then you have a more effective team and you definitely win faster and easier...that's why it's obvious...and this doesn't mean that you have to micro manage all of them...the only way to make it harder is...to copy paste wrong build

Regarding the second part of your post, if the day that you cannot find noone to play with arrives...it should be better to turn off servers even faster^^

Pff... ofcoz NO

That would definately kill the MMORPG idea. Only reason why you would ever need internet connection is to sell stuff in Kamadan
I would rather go and play BG/ID/NwN with far better storyline

Lets look at this logically...

This is a game, what is the point of a game? To have fun! To a huge number of us PUgging is simply not fun.

Nightfall added heroes, there is absolutely nothing that can be done about that.

GWEN added more heroes; again, nothing can be done about that.

The community is split 50-50 with people who enjoy pugging, and people who choose to solo everything they can in the game.

The outposts are already almost deserted these days.

People who PUG will not be convinced that H/H is a good option and therefore will not choose it.

People who H/H will never be convinced the PUGging is a good option and therefore will not choose it.

Therefore we can conclude, that through the advent of 7 heroes should Anet ever choose to implement it we would see little demonstrable difference in the way the game is currently set up. Puggers will continue to PUG and H/Hers will continue to H/H.

Simple as that guys.

Those of us that like to H/H would like 7 heroes to tweak builds, test teams, and generally manage our own gameplay instead of having it managed for us.

Those of you who like to Pug will always do so for whatever reasons you have.

Adding 7 heroes will make a great difference to half of us, and make absolutely no difference to the others. Therefore the odds are very much leaning toward the positive side of adding the option to have a 7 hero party.

Was that easy to follow? Besides, all you naysayers (I'm looking at you JDRyder) have yet to come up with a demonstrable argument as to why this is a bad idea. You've all stated you don't want it, but the arguments you engage simply don't stand up to scrutiny.

i think people would still group together even if they allowed for 7 heroes, despite having to deal with the occasional incompetent team. But the game is an MMO, and the devs would be abandoning this concept if they allowed such a thing.

plus, like Nereida said (and many others, i'm sure), you'd never need an internet connection.

Let's run a physical heavy team without heroes - shall we?
I'll be able to run ... what .. 4 man parties in 8-man missions? Or I need to take hench with me that don't fit the team build in any way?
Because a random party selection is a TRUE sign of doing things well in this game! Ohh and Charge! is the OMGWTFPWN!11 choice of elite for physicals!

The more heroes you add to your party the less paying party members you can add.
Ohh and loot scaling. If you run more then 2-man parties - you might as well use a full party.

Besides - how does adding more heroes add grind for you?
Personally it doesn't add grind in the slightest because well, ... I kinda won't farm.

Dude, like totally!
It's totally my fault that h/h are pretty much unable to play melee or that they do not understand some of the complex mesmer skills or the fact that they don't know how to protect or the fact that they can't even spam some of the skills that were made to be spammed ...
You are right - it's my decision to limit myself to the best possible option.

Ahh so you feel people shouldn't be rewarded for coming up with a build that works better then what the hench are using?
That's the reason why so many people do not PuG. And that's the reason why we'd love all-hero parties.
We KNOW we can do better.

The game doesn't get easier as a result - the players get better!
And because of that - the experience SHOULD be easier. I mean, if you get better at something - it's kinda expected that it's easier to do it because of it.

The argument has been (so far): "7 heroes = bad for PUGs." And: "What's bad for PUGs is bad for the game." (That's where the logic fails, from what I can see.)

For those of us who don't PUG, its a non-issue.

For those of you who do PUG, it seems to be the fear that it will be even harder to get groups together, and that seems to be the major issue you have with it. Is that correct?

And if the game "was so much better before heroes were introduced", then why is it that the number of people who want 7 heroes outnumber those who don't by nearly 5:1 at this point?

cause it will kill pugging even more, at least you still have pugs in places like ToA and EoTN, if you were able to have 7heros they would die out in no time. This game has become to solo already theres no need for make it more solo

cause it guru, if the poll was "Who wants to add in a skill called Hand of God that kills all NPCs on the map" and 5:1 people voted yes, does this mean its good for the game?

82.82% actually want to kill PUGGING. If you don't/can't understand that, try a pug for yourself. Its s u c k s horse.

The only thing I can agree is that the people who did not not PUG will not PUG after introduction of 7 heroes. All the rest are just your guesses.

First you and more people posting before "tend" to forget that there is also another group: people who are forced to PUG for whatever reasons. With 7 heroes this group will reduced in my opinion seriously reduced. Of course some of those will be happy as hell not to PUG anymore but... There is always a but. Those who were forced to PUG and do not have to PUG anymore will not do it and thus reduce the pugging possibility for others. Those who love to Pug were making team with the ones who liked it and the ones who need to. After that only the ones who really like to do it will be left together with those to whom even 7 heroes did not help and who are usually a nightmare for all pugging activity. You can H/H now and others can PUG now. With that update you still be able to H/H but others might not have the chance to PUG so easily anymore.
You can play this game solo (solo with H/H) and you can play it with others. With this update the second option is reduced not for you but for some other ones.

i pug when ever i cant get a guild group for something, not all of them suck

and why is killing pugs good for the game?

PUGing is what makes PvE enjoyable.

Let's stay with the issue here, dude. Ursan was the Hand of God skill, and it was overwhelmingly called to nerf it. (Well okay - Ursan wasn't as ridiculously uber as your example - but it proves my point. The guru community will call for skills to be nerfed because they are OP.)

Your argument has been that heroes that heroes aren't good for the game. Why? Because it hurts PUGging. Because "it makes the game too solo." And because it makes the game "too easy."

I disagree because: I don't PUG. (My few experiences with it were horrible.) I prefer to H&H because my schedule makes it easier to log in and out that way. As for "too easy", hell - you'd need to completely revamp PvE to address that issue!

Bottom line: people enjoy using Heroes. People have fun H&Hing. And people overwhelmingly want to use 7 heroes.

I dare all teh puggers to go pug in Snake's dance, Lornar's pass, Twin serpent lakes, tangle roots, the falls, vulture's drift, maishang hills, sunqua vale, raisu palace, drazach thicket, ferndal, issnur isles, derajin estate, the mirror of lyssa, domain of fear, sacnoth valley, varajar fells, arbor bay, ETC......

Can I have FUN with these AREA with a team of 2 mesmer, 3 monk, 2 dervish and me as mesmer ????

Does playing these AREA with AIDAN, CYNN, PikACHU, and the other STUPID (empathy) HEnch make the game fun ?????


Plz you ppl that like to pug, plz !!! is the game fun ????

Wow, looking at this thread it's just seems like it's PUGs vs. Heros. I guess I'll stick my opinion in here as well.

I would like 7 heros. Why? Because I like logging on and doing whatever I want to do, however I want to do it without anyone else telling me what to do. I'm not anti-social or don't like the morons in pugs, I just like controlling my own situation. I would still pugs some missions if I felt like it or someone needed some help. There will still be areas that can't be done with 7 heros or H/H.
What's the difference between H/H & 7 heros? Yes you can change 7 hero build BUT the AI is still retarded and will stand in the searing heat -.-. Heros still don't know how to Archance Echo + SS or manage energy properly. 8 people will always own 1 player + 7 heros. At least 8 people know when it scatter from the aoe and can use builds the way the should be used.

So...7 heros may be overpowered, but 8 people > a player and 7 heros. Besides, even if you remove heros, people will still use henchmen and get things done, I know I did. Pugging is fun and all, but the ratio of morons to smart people is...big.
Also adding 7 heros would get lots of people playing again, maybe not together, but playing at least.

Dammit I keep adding on to my post, but anyway...PvE is already easy as cake, whats the big deal if it gets easier? Gogogo 4 sf nukers + 3 sabway heros <<...>>

this helps my point imo, if you were to go up to any random person in guild wars and asked them if they wanted to nerf it im sure most people would have said no, does mean it didnt need the nerf but i think you get my point. Just cause a lot of people on guru or even in the game want something does not mean its good for the game

how do you think adding 7heros will make the game less solo?

if you have only need in a few pugs how do you know they are all bad? I cant say a pug a lot but ive done it a lot more then u i bet.

you will still have henchmen.

adding 7heros is not helping things when it comes to how easy pve is.





on guru
people overwhelmingly liked ursan as well "maybe not on guru but in-game"

I could possibly see the point of your sentiment if you could explain to me how someone could possibly be forced to PUG. As I see it, the choice is simple. No one is forcing you to do either; it's a choice. What overwhelming issue could there be that would mean you can PUG and only PUG?

That not in context at all.

I'm a little confused as to what your trying to say here, it sounds like your saying people that didn't want to PuG that could not use hero's or henchmen are FORCED to take up a PuG.

1. People that H/H now will use the full hero party of 7 whom might I add must have at least NF to make this even a reality for the 2 monks.

2. People that are forced to PuG now (lord knows why) will suddenly sprout magical wings of wisdom and play like gods of the game with 7 hero's? it's purely speculative if they will or not.

I'd put forward that if they cannot handly H/H there not going to handle 7 hero's either, to add to that I highly doubt there any good at the game at all if they cannot handle H/H at least the basics should get you though, but then some people don't like paying attention to the full class rage of GW and only transfix them self in a narrow list of classes, because that might mean shock horror they might just have to learn how a mesmer works.

3. People that are happy to PuG now will be happy after the 7 hero update because nothing has changed for them, because like minded people who enjoy PuGs will be available.

It's all very easy to sit on your guild with mates and friends that you have some kind of sync with that play as much as you do, when you do, where you do, and are up to the same place you are, I can see how people would have rose tinted glasses that PuGs should be the end all of grouping.

I'm tempted to put out a 100k challenge, my only problem is enforcing the rules of the challenge; choose any chapter you like, any class you like as long as it has not vanquished any areas or done any missions in hard mode, you are not allowed to use any hero's or henchmen what so ever for any area of the chapter you choose, you are not allowed to use any guild members or friends or people you've met, every person must be added to the group from the area your in.

And lastly you've got a month to complete the entire chapter all missions, and vanquish all areas, as I said tempted because I cannot properly police it.

@ Pamelf By forced to PUG I meant those to whom PUG is the only option to finish given mission/area cause they are not able to do it with their guilds/heroes etc. Believe those people still exist. I think Gate of Madness is the place where is the biggest number of them. I will try to be more clear next time.
@Inner Salbat - 2. go through this thread and you will find more than 40 posts telling - "I want 7 heroes so I will not have to PUG with morons anymore"

3. It is not true because Pugging group will be reduced by those in the point 2 above. This is simple math.

You forgetting the most important group. Newbies. They are the ones who PUG mostly. Not the ones who have guilds since GW is on. Possible not managing to find group will just prove our point. Game is slowly getting dead and you want it to die faster.

no you just didnt get the point, just cause a lot of people say its good on guru does not mean its good

its not just that dont forget not every has heros cause they do not have NF or EoTN.