When are dual attunements OK in PvE?

[skill]mind blast[/skill] sucks ... at 16 fire u only get 5 net energy gain
please learn to play
that quote makes me sad.

crucifix

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ohio

R/Mo

01 Nov 2007 at 14:16 - 43

even if the math is off, 5 energy every 3 sec
(assuming no HCT/ HSR mods, which every ele uses with MB builds anyway) is better than no ene every 3 sec. btw its about 1.666666 ene per second (1 and 2/3rds). but back to the original question: dual attunes are useful when you are
a) in a linear state of mind and cant be creative enough to use a different elite
b) too lazy to spam an extra skills
c) suck at using mindblast

Lourens

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

01 Nov 2007 at 15:45 - 44

it seems that everyone is blaming me like im a total noob *sigh*

i never played with mind blast , only got to sunspear sanctuary with my canthan ele >.> i dont got experience with mind blast doesnt mean i cant play ele

, ok ive said that

back to the topic we arent talking about mind blast but if it is ok to run dual attunement

jaeharys targaryen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

USA

Picnic Pioneers[asian characters]

E/Mo

01 Nov 2007 at 15:55 - 45

, ok ive said that

back to the topic we arent talking about mind blast but if it is ok to run dual attunement

your attempt to exit gracefully is made even more pathetic by the fact that you yourself introduced mind blast into the conversation

and if you never played it, why are you saying its bad? its one thing if you say somethign is good that you;ve neevr played, but to say its bad?

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

01 Nov 2007 at 16:01 - 46

your attempt to exit gracefully is made even more pathetic by the fact that you yourself introduced mind blast into the conversation Can we, y'know, NOT try to provoke arguments?

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

01 Nov 2007 at 16:07 - 47

Dual attunements is a weaker tactic now since enchantment removal is so much more prevelant now than ever before. There's so much spammable enchantment-hate these days and I'm surprised ANet didn't just make Enchantments a violation of the EULA by now. They hate them.

Back on topic, I used Dual Attunements for killing the Great Destroyer as opposed to my mindless button-mashing Searing Flames build. (Destroyers have innate resistance to Fire and Earth damage for those who didn't know.)

[skill]Lightning Orb[/skill][skill]Enervating Charge[/skill][Shell Shock][skill]Lightning Hammer[/skill][skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill][skill]Elemental Attunement[/skill][skill]Air Attunement[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

12[+1+3] Air,
8 Earth Prayers
10[+1] Energy Storage

moko

??uo??o??

Join Date: May 2006

01 Nov 2007 at 16:11 - 48

, ok ive said that

back to the topic we arent talking about mind blast but if it is ok to run dual attunement

so why comment on something you aren't even sure about?

it's like me trying to tell someone that a certain word means <x> in russian without knowing the language?

(Destroyers have innate resistance to Fire and Earth damage for those who didn't know.) just fire i thought, or earth too?

and uh, i guess dual attunes are useful if you don't have blinding surge capped..lol.

crucifix

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ohio

R/Mo

01 Nov 2007 at 16:24 - 49

Originally Posted by Mokone

so why comment on something you aren't even sure about?

it's like me trying to tell someone that a certain word means <x> in russian without knowing the language?

just fire i thought, or earth too?

and uh, i guess dual attunes are useful if you don't have blinding surge capped..lol. next time you meet a cute german broad, look her straight in the face and say "schoene augen". either you will be very happy with me or the side of your face is going to hurt quite a bit about 3 seconds after saying that.

dual attunes are great when you have no other elite. Its also a good option on hero eles that are setup for spamming high energy, low recharge skills. Aside from that, yeah better choices are most definitely available.

Lourens

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

01 Nov 2007 at 16:44 - 50

your attempt to exit gracefully is made even more pathetic by the fact that you yourself introduced mind blast into the conversation

i didnt intoduced it into the topic , and you are pathetic

and if you never played it, why are you saying its bad? its one thing if you say somethign is good that you;ve neevr played, but to say its bad?

let that be my opinion

moko

??uo??o??

Join Date: May 2006

01 Nov 2007 at 16:48 - 51

Originally Posted by crucifix

next time you meet a cute german broad, look her straight in the face and say "schoene augen". either you will be very happy with me or the side of your face is going to hurt quite a bit about 3 seconds after saying that. as long as you look them in the FACE you won't get smacked.

(<-- is german btw, too bad i got it :P)

edit: whops offtopic, lucky it's just campfire. :>

also Lourens, stop posting crap.

Lourens

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

01 Nov 2007 at 16:57 - 52

, im just defending myself back to the topic

i had an idea :

[skill]elemental attunement[/skill] + [skill]Arcane Mimicry[/skill] (ally has [skill]signet of illusions[/skill] )

and you run 16 (me/e) or 12 (e/me) Illusion Magic and 16 fast cast energy storage (signet of illusions > Ele att so being primary ele isnt needed)
= spam any high energy cost ele spell u like

jaeharys targaryen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

USA

Picnic Pioneers[asian characters]

E/Mo

01 Nov 2007 at 17:03 - 53

for 1/3 of the time
arcane mimicry is sux

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

01 Nov 2007 at 17:39 - 54

[skill]elemental attunement[/skill] best used with [skill]rodgort's invocation[/skill]
and [skill]fire attunement[/skill]

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:E/...cation_Spammer

@ Snow Bunny please shut up ill pwn ya You just used PvX as your justification.

You lose.

Mind Blast will spank you 7 days of the week, and Rodgort's Invocation will spank you twice on saturday.

crucifix

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ohio

R/Mo

01 Nov 2007 at 17:54 - 55

Originally Posted by Mokone

as long as you look them in the FACE you won't get smacked.

(<-- is german btw, too bad i got it :P)

edit: whops offtopic, lucky it's just campfire. :>

also Lourens, stop posting crap. brownie points for getting a mod off topic? OH YES I DO THINK SO.

to keep this post on topic (barely) dual attunes.. booo.

math on the subject as to why!

2 attunes= 80% of ene cost back
16 spec MB= 10 ene, 5 gain (no attunes)

30% return from attune on MB= 2 energy

sooooo... 16 spec MB nets 7 energy gain.

7 ene gain every 3 sec = 2.33333 ene per sec.

dual attunes= you actually waste energy.

oh wait... MB does dmg! yay dont use dual attunes.

Lourens

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

01 Nov 2007 at 20:48 - 56

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

You just used PvX as your justification.

You lose.

Mind Blast will spank you 7 days of the week, and Rodgort's Invocation will spank you twice on saturday. Today, 07:46 AM thats more as 12 hours ago my dear

its pretty easy to come with those 3 skills if you are a bit smart

[skill]echo[/skill][skill]backfire[/skill][skill]disrupting chop[/skill][skill]distracting shot[/skill][skill]Diversion[/skill][skill]Disrupting Lunge[/skill] ... (no comment)

o and everyone stay on the topic from now on !

moko

??uo??o??

Join Date: May 2006

01 Nov 2007 at 22:11 - 57

want me to list every single enchantment removal in the game now...?

it IS on topic, cause mindblast > ele attune for most reasons. -_-

Marverick

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

02 Nov 2007 at 00:26 - 58

Originally Posted by makosi

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

02 Nov 2007 at 05:08 - 59

it's amazing how everyone single topic likes always degrades down to this. dual attune is good for water, or fire if you don't have mind blast

jaeharys targaryen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

USA

Picnic Pioneers[asian characters]

E/Mo

02 Nov 2007 at 13:23 - 60

Originally Posted by Marverick

Or you can take something more useful like [skill]Blinding Surge[/skill] and use [skill]Auspicious Incantation[/skill] for your energy management... of course it's not mindless button mashing so I guess that's not an option then. ooh, auspicious incantation with a 10e spell?
TEH HAX
and yeh, a dead enemy is better than a blind enemy
fire, plz

moko

??uo??o??

Join Date: May 2006

02 Nov 2007 at 13:40 - 61

ooh, auspicious incantation with a 10e spell?
TEH HAX
and yeh, a dead enemy is better than a blind enemy
fire, plz lighting hammer.....he didn't mean to uise it with bsurge. bit of logic.

also an enemy smashing you til you die > an enemy that can't smash you to death cause hes blind? i think not.

jaeharys targaryen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

USA

Picnic Pioneers[asian characters]

E/Mo

02 Nov 2007 at 13:47 - 62

Originally Posted by Mokone

lighting hammer.....he didn't mean to uise it with bsurge. bit of logic.

also an enemy smashing you til you die > an enemy that can't smash you to death cause hes blind? i think not. eh, i was hoping it would take himself replying to prove me wrong on auspicious. i was hoping he'd try to defend usign it with bsurge

and if your airspiking shouldnt the enemy being down faster than you?

aznhalf

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

02 Nov 2007 at 15:19 - 63

ooh, auspicious incantation with a 10e spell?
TEH HAX
and yeh, a dead enemy is better than a blind enemy
fire, plz Or you could just use it with Lightning Hammer if you're going by that bar. Fairly certain he didn't mean use AI with BS.

And if the enemy is blind then you're probably not dead. A dead you is generally a bad thing. Damage isn't everything.

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

02 Nov 2007 at 15:26 - 64

eh, i was hoping it would take himself replying to prove me wrong on auspicious. i was hoping he'd try to defend usign it with bsurge

and if your airspiking shouldnt the enemy being down faster than you? Real great Forum spirit you got there.

Air Magic for damage isn't that great. Air Magic's awesomeness lies in it's utility. Mass blinding with B-Surge or B-Flash + Epidemic has got me through nearly all the hard mode I've done so far.

I still find Dual Attunements fantastic for Air Magic. Other elements generally benefit from using an elite from their own line of magic.

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

02 Nov 2007 at 15:30 - 65

I likes RInvocation and Light magic + dual attunement
I also likes mudkipz

smrandom

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2007

Kings Beyond The Wall [KING]

02 Nov 2007 at 16:17 - 66

IMO, elite energy management is never worth the slot, even if you don't have Nightfall and its bevy of awesome elites. Dual Attunement builds are a house of cards: if they go down, so does your build. Because the concept behind a Dual Attunement build is the ability to spam high cost skills, it necessarily means that the build is only viable when the attunements are up. The attunements are easily stripped or interrupted. If you die and are resurrected, they are also gone and you must wait not only for the attunements to recharge, but for your energy to recharge enough to cast both attunements and the high cost energy spell (I acknowledge that a simple solution to this is to not die, but that's not always preventable). The cast times are also problematic. At 2 second cast, putting up both attunements simultaneously requires you to stop doing anything useful for at least 4 seconds. That's 4 seconds of not doing damage or preventing yourself from taking damage. Hopefully, everything is dead everytime you need to recast, but I wouldn't bet on that being the case every time.

Elementalists have much better non-elite energy management options, such as the aforementioned GoLE and Auspicious Incantation. Single attunements are nice. Mind Blast is awesome.

BTW, if you're running an Air Spike in PvE and not using Mindbender, you're missing out. Invoke and LHammer on one sec cast and Chain Lightning at 1.5 sec (assuming you don't get a fast casting bonus from your weapon/focus). Yeah, Chain Lightning. At 3 sec cast, it's trash. At 1.5 sec cast, it's ridiculous.

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

02 Nov 2007 at 19:22 - 67

its as a said earlier if you don't have Nightfall then dual attune is good.

smrandom

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2007

Kings Beyond The Wall [KING]

02 Nov 2007 at 22:33 - 68

No, it's not. If you don't own NF or GW:EN (FYI, you can cap Invoke, SF, MB and SH in GW:EN), then I still wouldn't recommend Dual Attunements. I'd sooner run an Elite from another class than I would run elite energy management. And I don't mean Echo.

Tamuril elansar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

02 Nov 2007 at 22:46 - 69

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

02 Nov 2007 at 22:54 - 70

Originally Posted by smrandom

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

03 Nov 2007 at 00:09 - 71

Originally Posted by Tamuril elansar

auspicious -> elemental atunement, elemental attunement cost is just to big, to big change either of you're attunes get shattered or interupted. Elite E-mana never worth it, the non elite energy management nowadays is just more practical. I don't like to micro a nuker hero, and seeing as in prolonged HM fights (like...trying to kill 2 Dolyak monks with a Dolyak monk boss right next to them) the heroes don't manage the Mindblast/Rodgort's Invoc particularly well (at least for me) I've found that dual attunes basically gives you the energy cost back. It works fantastically...ridiculous damage and burning every 5 seconds for free?

Marverick

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

03 Nov 2007 at 00:11 - 72

ooh, auspicious incantation with a 10e spell?
TEH HAX
and yeh, a dead enemy is better than a blind enemy
fire, plz Ehm, [skill]Lightning Hammer[/skill]??

I believe you had that on your bar...

You can blind something in 3/4 of a second. If you can kill something in 3/4 of a second with your fire crap then sure, go ahead.

Lourens

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

03 Nov 2007 at 10:59 - 73

[skill]elemental attunement[/skill] is only good with skills that have a short recharge imo

Zokocow

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2007

E/Me

11 Nov 2007 at 23:49 - 74

Personally I've been running a nuker build with dual Fire Attunement and Elemental Attunement. I regen all of my energy with each cast and coupled with arcane echo in my bar can constantly spam something like rodgorts. I love it!

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

13 Nov 2007 at 04:33 - 75

That works wonders until you get mindblast now its my new fav ele elite

smrandom

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2007

Kings Beyond The Wall [KING]

13 Nov 2007 at 19:20 - 76

Correction: it works wonders until your attunements get interrupted/stripped/shattered, etc. Then you're just the guy wanding for the next few minutes while people in your team actually kill stuff.

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

13 Nov 2007 at 19:39 - 77

Not really, the only dual attune I run every now and then is rodgorts spam.

With glowing gaze I gain enough energy to off set one of the attunes going down. Both going down is rare even in PvP.

smrandom

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2007

Kings Beyond The Wall [KING]

13 Nov 2007 at 23:10 - 78

With glowing gaze I gain enough energy to off set one of the attunes going down.

At 16 Fire Magic, the net gain from Glowing Gaze is 5 energy every 8 seconds (assuming no fast recharge). If you're spamming Rodgort's every 5 seconds (or worse, every 2 if you've echoed it), you'll run yourself dry pretty quick, even with one attunement up. Then you're the guy who makes everyone wait until his energy is back up.

Both going down is rare even in PvP. Both going up in PvP is even more rare.

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

14 Nov 2007 at 01:48 - 79

Originally Posted by smrandom

Both going up in PvP is even more rare. Where do you PvP

Even in HA I have run dual attune a lot and never had problems at all

smrandom

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2007

Kings Beyond The Wall [KING]

14 Nov 2007 at 21:59 - 80