Feedback Desired: The Report System

Welcome to 1984
Next command - /reportthoughtcrime

EDIT Bah didn't see second page, thought i was first to mention 1984 owell

They do the rules right

Let me tell you a tale. The tale of slashdot.org, one of the biggest (if not the biggest) site of technological news on the net. Years and years ago, slashdot (who was a very friendly website full of latest news on all things technological, some said a "geek's den"; each piece of news was commented) got invaded by kids and opinionated people. A lot of discussions quickly ended up in flame wars, pointless debate that were repeated over and over again (Free vs. Commercial, Windows vs. Unix, Microsoft vs. anti-Microsoft, etc.). After a few months of deep thinking, the slashdot admins introduced a new system of "self-moderation" quite elaborate (see details here: http://slashdot.org/moderation.shtml). A LOT of people were afraid of how their contributions would be removed and factions would take control.

None of this happened. The moderation system was a great success, notably thanks to a very smart and "intuitive" system which was used "correctly" by the slashdot community, and enabled slashdot to grow to a very unexpected size (see the Slashdot Effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashdot_effect), after a few tweakings of course (such a fundamental system could not work from scratch, furtheremore they were among the first to introduce such a system).

End of story. (one can continue with countless similar features, such as ebay's feedback system, please read this: http://jcmc.indiana.edu/vol7/issue3/boyd.html)

In conclusion: fear of the unknown usually make people say things that are not "rational", even more when they only look at their own situation "out of context" (see the messages "it's not a problem because it's not a problem for me"). Stop speculating on what will happen, no one knows for sure, not even Anet. As I said before, this is a test for the GW community: if it succeeds or fails, it will be also because the community hasn't been able to realise the potential of this feature. If Anet has to remove it at one point, I will see this as a very sad news, possibly the proof that this community is immature, and/or selfish, and/or undisciplined. On the contrary, if it improves the situation, it will be the proof that a majority of people are reasonable.

I haven't really gotten the gist of the feature fully yet, but if it's double-sided it would work. Dishonor those who do abuse it by checking their reports to see if they're frequently reporting fraudulent claims or pointlessly abusing it.

WOOHOO!! FLAMEWARS ARE OF THE PAST! REPORTWARS IS NOW HERE...Report Wars: Pvp Edition? Perhaps this IS the expansion after gwen!!

its a little off topic, but is anyone else having problems using it?

i had a guy in AB who stood in the same spot half the match before i figured he was leeching for sure, tried the report thing and nothing happened.
typed /report [name] and nout happened, no appearing box or anything.

odds are its me being retarded but was wondering.

i can see the huge chance for abuse of this, but the little kids that're going to abuse it are unlikely to be able to back up their reports. so long as the scanning system is thorough enough, which as someone said before i sure hope it is.

well,
/thread

Yes can anyone comfirm the report system is actually working? i know the dishonor system is in place (after seeing a leecher rage quit GW over "Anet screwing them over" ) but i am seeing loads of people saying the report system has not been activated yet.


Wow....i really hope to see the thread you make about your necro being forced to get a name change. You came up with a name that you knew would offend people and now your crying about the report system possibly taking the name away?........go go report system.

You might want to whisper your teammates to make sure they report as well. Remember that 1/3 of the team has to report, otherwise you end up with the dishonor.

You might want to whisper your teammates to make sure they report as well. Remember that 1/3 of the team has to report, otherwise you end up with the dishonor.

haha, good going anet,
glad I uninstalled this game

I will start by saying I like the feature. But has anyone thought that there are probably many people who will have no clue as to the fact that the /report even exists. Forum posters know because they keep up with what happens in the game, but more people just play and never check the forums and even the GW site. I think you will be hearing all sorts of confused conversations going on when the /report threat is used.

If the team is made up of 4 people of which one is a leecher or leaver, that leaves 3 people actually playing, which makes me 1/3 of the team. So if that is the case I can report without a problem, I would like to know if this is the case.

In support of SotiCoto (and anyone else with a name that might make you raise an eyebrow):

Maybe the name is supposed to send a message, or give some kind of insight. Maybe it's supposed to say something about the player himself, or maybe it's meant to be a little offensive in addition to any of the things above. But whether or not any offense was intended doesn't matter. The name is ambiguous. It COULD be offensive to SOME, but they'll be in a small minority. Maybe you just happened to lose a baby to crib death. Well, my heart goes out to you, but SotiCoto doesn't know that. You don't like the name? You want to make an impact? Then whisper your heartfelt plea, don't immediately threaten to run to the name police no matter how angry you might be. All that does is make the person you're threatening indignant and spiteful (as well they should be - again, they don't know anything about you or your experiences).

If you want to be the bigger person when you see a name you don't like, don't go tattling to an adult. Just tell the person what you think (protip: direct insults are an immediate fail). Personally, my measure of maturity is how little a person gets offended. Ignorant assholes are usually the type to run for the hills every time some little thing gets to them. Guess what? It's not personal. Shrug it off, let out an annoyed sigh, PM the person if you must, but only PM death threats if you want that person to immediately know exactly what kind of an ignorant asshole you are. There are exceptions of course. Nobody needs racism or sexism for example. Feel free to report those - you don't even need to tell the person you're doing it.

This is a game, people don't know who you are, nothing is personal. Be a big man - don't take it personally.

-Jessyi

Jessyi, I am sorry if you don't like my feelings on the matter, that does not change the fact they are what they are. If he has to whine on the forums about how he is such a social outcast and he has no manners nor respect for others around him, who am I to care if he gets his name banned? Why should we show him any respect or compassion for him, when he himself truly has no respect for others! A little bit of social decorum goes along way in this world.

Maybe he needs to learn what empathy, compassion and sympathy are, he sure doesn't have any!

The name itself it is not the problem,the fact that he is proud of it, knowing it is offensive which he admits is the sole reason he created it.Then proceeds to whine oh no I might lose my charactor because people find it offensive is just beyond description.

Btw, I would never waste my time whisping people like this, especially when it is quite evident they could really care less. Whisping them would only sink myself to their level of maturity. If something crosses my path I will take the appropriate action to deal with it, which is not whisping someone and tearing them apart, offensive behavior gets a report to Anet and I wash my hands of it, nothing more nothing less. Alas, I do not go looking for offensive behavior I would much rather enjoy my time playing the game.

Btw, I think my husband would take great offense if I was to be the man! :-P

Let's say you're right. I respect your opinions as valid as well. Maybe he is a whiner. Maybe he was intentionally offensive. Maybe he needs to learn empathy, compassion and sympathy.

Will banhammering his name make that happen? Even if he was being offensive just for the sake of being offensive I would have my doubts. I read the reason he gave for choosing the name, that the whole world doesn't stop for you during your time of tragedy. It doesn't matter whether or not I agree with the message, and it doesn't matter whether or not you agree with it. SotiCoto chose the name as a matter of principle - it's something he believes in whether you like it or not. Banning his name in a video game isn't going to change that. It won't make anything different in your life or his.

This isn't just about SotiCoto either. This is a question about slippery slopes and just what kind of philosophy ANet will have when it comes to picking and choosing who gets hit by this system. That is why people are uneasy right now, and that's what SotiCoto was trying to say. You might not like SotiCoto, but that doesn't change the content of his message which happens to have some merit.

-Jessyi

Yea, I think it's retarded. For example, I was running HoS yesterday and a ranger pinged his build... it was honestly the worst build I've ever seen. He was a R/P, with no elite, his healing skill was.... MENDING REFAIN. He had no shouts or chants to keep his +2 regen up anyway. It was an extremely crappy build so I said in chat "lol, kick the noob please." And he says "REPORTED!!!!!! /REPORT!!!! EVERYONE REPORT HIM!!!! HAHA LOSER YOUR GONNA BE BANNED!!!!"

ANet seems to be more on the side of banning for any remotely offensive name, I've seen a lot of people post names on here that got banned and were maybe minorly offensive at worst, and I've seen another one that was similarly offensive to Soti's name, it was along the lines of, not to name actual names, "Joe has Aids". Now, on one hand, for all anyone in-game knew, it was a guy named Joe, who happens to have Aids, and is big on Aids awareness and promoting social acceptance of people who have Aids. On the other hand, for all anyone in-game knew, Joe was making fun of people with Aids by naming his character "Joe has Aids". You would think that if this would get you banned, that the word "Aids" or "A I D S" would be in the no-no name list, but it wasn't, and Joe assumed his name was ok. The fact that some people could possibly be offended by his name caused ANet to decide that the person would have to rename his "Joe has Aids" character. ANet doesn't care if you don't or do realize your name offends others, or if you had any intention to offend, if anyone tells ANet they are offended by your name, you get a mini-ban and then have to rename your "offensive" character's name. Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if that poor person whose name is Raccoon has to change their name because some people are really easily offended and unable to see certain things in more than one context.

I don't think ANet sees it as a slippery slope, since as far as I know their policy is to enforce a name change for any name reported as offensive, if the name can be interpereted as being the slightest bit offensive or inappropriate. While I do not think it's the best use of their support staff's time, giving out mini-bans and forcing renames for the slightest naming snafu, that's what they have decided to make sure none of their customers feels unnecessarily subjected to offensive material. Blame lawyers, they make overbearing stuff like this so commonplace.

EDIT:
Sadly, if that dude was offended by you referring to him as a noob, and says he was offended, and other people report being offended by you saying he was a noob, you just might get a ban. Hopefully not, but corporations seem to bow to the slightest sensitivities when policing behavior reported as offensive.

Seriously, I've gotten lectured at work for politely telling people, in a whispered tone, only audible to the intended recipient, "Hey, you can't do that on your computer, if someone else ever sees that you'll get in big trouble, watch out, ok?" because the person I told that to reported feeling "offended" by my warning. You'd think they would have gotten in trouble for what they were doing to break the computer use regulations when I tried to be nice and let them know they could get in trouble, but instead the HR people hear "offended by worker's comments" and get all huffy about that instead. This is the way corporations work, instead of worrying about making things work and being productive and having good service or good products, they focus on not getting sued, and "offended" "harassed" and "hostility" are words that get the overreaction lawsuit-protection train running at full speed! Expect to be banned anytime someone uses any of those 3 words when reporting you.

We are trying the /report system out for the weekend event. If we find problems, we will fix them. Please try the system out before you jump to conclusions.

Thanks Andrew, I think a lot of people would feel less worried to hear something like "Don't worry, this isn't fourth grade, people will get banned for offenses that are blatant rule-breaking or obviously offensive behavior" if you are able to offer any more reassurances

I can see 1 fatal flaw with this system


Me: Wts Miniature Gwen 100k and xxe(dont know price but needed highend example)

Douche Bag #1: (public chat) ZOMFG IL TRADENS YOU A REK 11 ICY SWORD FO$ DATS!!!!!

Me: nty plz use wisper next time

Douche Bag #1 : WTF YOU NOOB MIN E WRTH MOR NOOBET

i deside to ingore him

5 seconds later

Douche Bag #2: (wisper) dude leave my friend alone his dad works at anet

Me: i wasn't doing anything he was being very rude

Douche Bag#2: YOU NoobS Rewin the gamz ****** *** ***** *** **** **** ** ** sourcroute ***** /report

later the Douche Bags(guild name DBaG(joke name btw) all decide to all report me at the same time

Here ya go.

From the rules of conduct: http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...sofconduct.php

Falsely accusing someone is a serious matter that we will deal with. Much like when the police receive a false report for a crime, it wastes our time, impacts the person you are falsely accusing, and all around isn't a good idea. We will deal with individuals that attempt to use the /report function maliciously, and as I said, we will continue to monitor the system to find any issues.

Andrew is the bestest

Andrew when will dishonor become a title track we can grind on!

I'm kidding - I for one thing it's a good system.
I just hope it's used appropriately.

Kudos to the team for coming up with it - I hope the test proves successful.

I've had all sorts of members of my family die... including kin.
Frankly I couldn't care less. Death happens to everyone. I just get bugged when certain people just can't get over it and get on with their lives. If they're going to cry about it continually then the least they could do is keep it private.... and THAT is what it is all about.

If you're offended by it then that is YOUR doing... not mine. I cannot forcibly offend you by any means, but you can... of your own volition, choose to be offended by anything you so wish. As such... if you're offended by it, that is your weakness and honestly I should not have to compensate for it when it isn't under my control.
Honestly... if I genuinely wanted to rub someone up the wrong way, I could do far worse. I do not on principle. Please consider things in context.

I don't play Guild Wars for the social interaction... but because I just like the game for its own sake... and I'd much rather other people didn't interfere in that where possible.

Some small relief.... but given that the name has become traditional for me now (I've had it many years), I'd rather it didn't come to that.


What?
You're on their side?
Go figure.
I'm not "crying" about it. "Crying" is precisely what I'm trying to stop WITH it... and right now I'm merely being wary.


I know what it is. I even know what it looks like. I've seen it.
Generally it falls between the categories of "sh!t happens" and "bad parenting".... and in either case, while I can understand that there might be a period of initial shock and some time for adjustment.... I've had people making a genuine nuisance of themselves because they couldn't get over it.
And I made the name in the first place as an attempt at desensitising them to it by overexposure until it didn't mean anything to them any more. It worked reasonably well, even if it was a bit harsh... and that is how it came to be.

You see?
It isn't that I'm just trying to p!ss people off; I saw a problem and I decided to fix it my way. The name is a legacy of that. There are some things in life that you won't like, that you might truly hate... but they're just part of life, and getting them removed for you only makes you weaker.


Wouldn't you if certain individuals happened to find one of your names offensive? I'm sure there is someone out there in the world who has a morbid fear of Ravens... and would find the very mention of your name striking fear into their heart.
Do you honestly think you are doing any good by hiding that from them?
I don't.

Some things offend more people than others.
Irrespective though, it is their choice to be offended... and it won't influence everyone the same way. The blame doesn't fall on the namer... unless under the highly unusual circumstances that it was designed soley as a personal attack against another. Even then, the "other" needn't be offended at all if they apply a little will and effort... and then what power does the attacker have? None at all.

*Sighs*

I really do have a tendency to turn threads against me.... don't I?
Even when I'm not actually insulting anyone.... v_v;

The main issue here is that /report is wildly subjective. If anyone finds something you said offensive, you are risking action from Anet. Basically, this has the potential to sterilize in-game conversation - the crude joke you just made could have gotten some people's panties in a bunch. Or, the arguments you make could be unpopular (e.g., PvPers pwnz0rz PvEers). Maybe I find blatant stupidity offensive, and decide to report that. Maybe I find people playing cute offensive. On what grounds do you decide whether something is actually offensive or not?

Also, you'll note from bhavv's thread about random arena reporting that there is a fundamental flaw in the system - it doesn't allow you to play builds you want to play. There's no requirement that you play to win, right? Playing for fun is just as good, even if that means it costs your team the victory.

I frankly think Anet needs to stop trying to police conduct (even the US government is fairly hands-off about that) and stick to dealing with serious offenses - exploits, botters, etc.

My Opinion.. if you leave it in the hands of people who dont think your good bad thing will happen.. you might want to fix the connection errors and people reporting you for leeching but your actually losing connection.

/report < /cry

Poor taste ... horrible judgement ... violation of Eula? Most likely. There isn't any way to defend the creation of that name. You created it to offend no more no less.

If you note some of my char names on left .. Eula Approved Name ... was the name created after being banned for the name Yuk Foo. Yuk Foo was deemed offensive and resulted in a 24 hour ban and forced name change .. what exactly do you think your name is. Speaking as a person that was banned for a name .. YES you deserve what you get. Anyone defending you is either hiding a name they are worried about or likes to debate.

People play this game to get away from problems not have them thrust in their face by ill mannered children.

I'm fairly sure this is going to draw flames, but I'm going to stick my neck out because I honestly can't stand it anymore:

Don't you guys ever get tired of being PC?

I get the feeling that some of you people who post on this forum are so deathly afraid that someone, somewhere, is having their feelings hurt, that you have to censor every damn thing that even has a chance of being offensive. "Yuk Foo" forced a name change? Do you honestly consider that to be reasonable?

Hurt feelings is something little kids worry about. If adults can't shrug it off, or else gird their loins and take it, I'm honestly not sure what to think. It's bad enough that you can barely even fart loudly on TV without drawing government fines.

Good point in general, I think that's why people get extra-mad when someone griefs them or scams them or says/does offensive things in the game, they're playing GW to have fun and get away from all that crap that they could easily find offline if they enjoyed putting up with it. They came to play a game and have fun and get away from things that suck for a little while.

EDIT:
There is a big difference between being PC and being a jerk. Jerks can fall into a black hole for all I care, they're intentionally doing stuff to make other people have less fun in this game. Being PC is the ridiculous thing, getting rid of everything that offends everyone in the slightest. Yes, people should learn to deal with certain things and only complain about stuff that goes against basic standards of decency. Unless Yuk Foo is swearing or offensive in another language, I don't see the problem. Raccoon, it's an animal first and foremost, or a really pathetic slang insult used by some people, Raccoon by itself is no problem. Ghost of Cot Death, I didn't know what a Cot Death is, I did know what SIDS is, but say your name is "Dead Baby" or "Dead Kid" or "Dead Dog" seriously do those deserve bans? People may be offended by any of those, but that's stuff an adult (or 14-year-old) should be able to deal with and not cry to the game police over. As far as I'm concerned, if you can say it on a TV show with a TV-14 rating it should be fine in the game, since the game is rated 14+. See anything violating that TV-14 standard of public decency, yeah, report it, they deserve it.

A report is just a report...much like reporting someone for a crime to the police. It will be investigated and confirmed before action is taken. If someone maliciously reports someone, they will be the one being punished. If someone is being overly zealous with their reporting, support can decide when something isn't really bad enough to warrant a mark. All a report does is say "hey, look at what this guy was doing!" Unless they were actually doing something wrong, they have nothing to worry about.

Except in PvP, right? Where reporting has instant effect via the dishonor system?

I just don't see the point. You're basically mashing everyone's subjectivity together and then using a staff member to arbitrarily choose between them. Maybe half the people in town thought a joke was funny, and the other half ragequit the game in protest. How is Anet staff going to decide? If you err on the side of caution, the /report system has no teeth and might as well not be implemented. If you err in favor of PC, you sterilize in-game conversation. Sure, there's a sliding scale, but if you just go with individual subjective judgment you're just going to end up with inconsistencies and unpredictable results based on the moral sensibilities of whoever is dealing with the particular case. In that instance, people get paranoid and clam up, because who knows what Anet will do?

So, argumentum ad hominem or arguing for the sake of arguing? I'm going to assume you were aware of the third option and just didn't mention it: maybe someone agrees with him.

If I do something I think is benign and you get offended, then I am even more offended by you getting offended. That may well be the only thing I actually take offense to. I wouldn't have made the name SotiCoto did (largely because I prefer names that are actually names, except in the case of pvp chars) but I defend his right to use it on principle.

-Jessyi

As I said people looking for a debate. Your debating this is rather pointless ... he knew it was not benign and even states that fact in a post. So feel free to debate this with someone else. If you agree his right to offend outweighs anothers right to not be offended not much I can say other than feel free to read the Eula.

He blatantly states "I know what it is. I even know what it looks like. I've seen it. Generally it falls between the categories of "sh!t happens" and "bad parenting".... and in either case, while I can understand that there might be a period of initial shock and some time for adjustment.... I've had people making a genuine nuisance of themselves because they couldn't get over it.
And I made the name in the first place as an attempt at desensitising them to it by overexposure until it didn't mean anything to them any more. It worked reasonably well, even if it was a bit harsh... and that is how it came to be."

I came from real pvp leagues CAL CPL etc. This was a non issue because common sense was not only expected but enforced. Tards that went out of their way to be offensive would .. get banned from the league. You could debate it all you wanted and enjoy your hardware ban at the same time .. it wouldn't change the outcome.

The problem is that whether you're a jerk or not is - you guessed it - totally subjective. People rage at stand-up comics all the time. People rage at others that state ugly truths. Depending on your interpretation (and how far up your ass you have that stick jammed), something may or may not be offensive, and someone may or may not be a jerk. If I make a joke about someone else's misfortune, am I being a jerk, or just trying to be funny? Everyone is going to see it differently, no doubt about it.

Why is swearing inappropriate? Especially when there's a built-in censor? I don't find it inappropriate, and generally no amount of swearing will offend me. I might think a sentence full of swear words is stupid and hard to read, but certainly not offensive. But surely, other people disagree.

I'm just outlining a fundamental problem with trying to police decency - and why I think Anet should just forget about it and stick to real offenses like botting. At least in games you can block people or turn off chat channels - if someone gets in your face in real life, you don't have that many easy options (granted, beating the snot of someone is probably more satisfying than putting them on your ignore list, but fighting has its own ramifications :P).

I think the report function is a great step forwards for improving the quality of RA. I and a friend have been sync joining and reporting anyone who runs builds that suck. So far RA has been temporarily releived of over twenty E/D tanks that suck. I only hope that others follow this example in cleaning up RA. Edit: Just killed some symbolic strike tards.

If you continue your point with your own message, total subjectivity then dictates that botting is not an offense to botters. It boils down to the EULA and Anet can state whatever it wants in the EULA, including a certain moral code.

Trying to educate people via a name such as "cots death" is uterly ridiculous and absolutely disrespectful. And to quote the guy:

Yep, respecting people is also part of life.

People will report you if they dont like you, dont like your skill bar, or think your a noob and playing badly.

They will report all these under 'Leeching'.

They will continue to report everyone they dont like in this way and then get themselves banned for misusing the system.

Isnt that a good thing? I really want to see some serious bannage going out for misusing the report for leeching.

Aren't you the guy from another thread that kept getting reported because you were taking builds into RA that you KNEW would fail? Just to spoil other peoples fun. Your mentality is why this report feature even came about. Never have and never will understand people that enjoy trying to screw things up for others.

Dude, mending wammo fails, Geo tank fails, normal 55hp monk fails.

Lots of people play these builds on purpose ok? Excuse us for having fun.

People screwing up RA is WHY we should be allowed to rage quit. Get it? Obviously not.

Is playing my gimmick builds doing anything wrong?