Feedback Desired: The Report System

You are aware of the rampent childish and immature behaviour in GWs? What if someone is standing in LA and spouting racist and abusive terms. Should you not have the right to easily report them?

Its better then having to just stand there and ignore it. You shouldnt have to be subjected to anything like that ingame if you choose not to. But its not just a case of "turn off local chat and ignore it".

You shouldnt have to.

I have the right, privelage and ability to completely ignore them because frankly I don't give a toss what they want to do with their life. I can even turn the Local chat channel off or move to another district. It doesn't bother me in the slightest..... and I have rather less tolerance for people who ARE bothered by it, ironically enough. Getting upset about a few words thrown about here and there by the ignorant is something only children can get away with, IMHO.

And they shouldn't have to be banned from playing the game just because a random passer by happens not to like their language. Scale it up already: a ban from the game... versus a few unpleasant words.
If you can't make the punishment fit the crime then it isn't just. Simple as.
When you interact in ANY community with other people, one needs to be prepared for a great many differences of opinion.... and most important of all, the only person's will / opinion you can be totally sure of or have any control over is your own. If you know others well enough to be aware of what will or won't upset them, then trying to avoid that can help avoid negativity drawn back at you.... but ultimately, you have far more control over the influence of others on you than your own influence on them.
Sometimes it takes a lifetime of being condemned for really stupid things to teach you this (and as a 2nd-generation Aspergian, I've had a lot of crap over the years about things I could never understand). If I decided that I had a right to do something about it every time someone annoyed me, I'd be in jail by now several times over. Thankfully I've been taught that the only life I really need take responsibility for is my own, which means steeling myself against feelings of offense and abuse and becoming a stronger person by not letting it bother me (being a Londoner also helped, as ignoring people is standard fare here).
NOBODY can offend you without your permission. Remember that.


Besides.... they're just attention-grabbers. If you ignore abuse-hurlers long enough then they typically decide it isn't worth their while to continue anyway.

You assume that they are actually reviewing everything before a ban is done. Just a week ago, someone was permanently banned for botting and then yesterday he was unbanned again. The massbanned people afk farming for the lucky title.


/report can be answered by a script, in fact the ban can be done by a script! They did the same thing with their antiboting script, right? And people still get banned innocently. Most support queries will be answered first by a script, you have to go through a lot of trouble, to actually get a person to look at your problem.

I once reported something, and they told me the designers are working on it, it is now 7 months later, and they are still not finished! :grin: Don´t expect the support to tell you the truth either.

BTW Gaile said, that the first level of review is done by a script and the second by humans. Gaile said that the informations in the inquirer article were not completly true. I don´t believe Gaile.

No company in the world will tell you, that a script is taking away your account, that a script is taking away your money; they will always say, a human looked at the log files. I am pretty sure, you could sue them, if they ever did.

So basically, if I understand your arguement:
They've said some stuff, you don't believe them, anything they've said or will say you wont believe. There's /report and a script, and other scripts in the past have been used to ban.. so /report is in imminent danger of banning you?..

...even though no innocents were banned the whole test weekend of people /reporting everyone that even slightly annoyed them..... where's the angry threads of 'i was banned by /report?!!?!?'.

Again I challenge you.. the system is working, the doomsday predictions have not come true. true or false?

I spoke at length with Support about the system just today. I can tell you this:

• The only automatic action taken by the /report system is the starting of a "timer" for those accused, by a majority, of leaching.

• There is no other automatic action, of any kind.

Reports of other kinds of misbehavior are reviewed by human beings, assessed, verified through data pulls (such as chat records), and then action is taken, if justified.

It is wrong for anyone to insist that he understands how the system works, when he does not. It is wrong to accuse the company, or the company's representative, of lying about the system. Those posting with exaggerated, paranoid theories about unjust blocks or unfair bans need to stop, for they are basing their entire drama on non-facts and untrue accusations.

Those posting about an actual erroneous block should refer the person involved to Support, to whom he or she can detail the situation. Nearly always, when I follow up on these cases, it is clear that the block was justified and the "innocent party" was guilty of breaking the User Agreement or Rules of Conduct. However, I will be the first to tell you that of course there is the chance that an error was made in any individual case. That is why each and every contact about such things is dealt with respectfully and seriously, and those who were erroneously blocked are unblocked.

It's really this simple: The system is quite sound, and any of the miniscule number of errors that are made will be resolved as quickly as possible. The overall benefit to the community of this system is exceedingly high; it is of great value to the players as a whole.

Thx for the input Gaile. I for one love this system.

Go Gaile. I'm impressed by how you remain so cordial and am always glad to see you post. Kudos on the great report system.

Gaile, Tell dev team to continue this way. Guru gets banged by angry leavers, but don't bother.

QFT.

Players do the report, Anet'll check if it's a bannable offence. If you play and act in normal civil way, what do you have to fear for? The bad apples in game on the other hand can do with a few days off, or permanently in some case.

QFE

Good job anet!

Face it, picking off noobs for your Glad title is over... QQ about it less lol.

Hehe soti is a bit like me, an anarchist with a thick skin :P
I don't like the report system either, but the quality of casual pvp arenas will improve greatly by it. So in the end I count my blessings. I would never-ever use it to report people using foul language and the like, I don't feel encouraged to play server police, but that's me.

Soticoto - you have great points on every angle for individual freedoms. Unfortunately, much of it does not apply to private property, in which the freedoms of the owners are respected. In this case, it all entirely depends on what Anet wants in their game, and everyone else has to respect it or get out.

I agree with you on individual rights, but I also agree with the rights of companies and organizations to serve those they want to serve. It's their investment, and they have every right to do with it what they wish.

I suppose I just need to deal with it like I deal with the real-life pigs: Mind my own damned business and stay well away from people to avoid accidentally breaking the law.


Touché....
You are right afterall....
It is theirs to prat around with as they please. I suppose the real question is why they even bother claiming that they're improving things, or trying to coddle anyone at all.
At one extreme you have the question of fairness and freedoms.... but that isn't valid since it is a private system as you say. But in that case.... they might as well just be saying: "We're making these changes and you can't do a damned thing about it" ... Why do they even bother trying to convince people to like what they're doing if we don't have a choice in the matter? Gaile could tell us to shut up or risk account ban, and we'd have to comply if we wish to keep playing.... honestly. So why does she even bother trying to coddle peoples' feelings? A-Net could limit the game to play by heterosexual caucasian males only in theory... but they prefer a different brand of selectivity.
It makes no sense.

How can you make these two statements consistent in your head? On the one hand you talk of having no right to impose your views, and on the other you talk of victory?

If you were consistent with the first point, you'll express your view (as you did) and then simply explain it if it was misunderstood. But you continually repeat your reasoning ad nauseam (yeah, who cares about emotions? ideas flying in the air have more weight than emotions sitting in the body of the one who feels them ...), pushing for your individual right to be predominant in most threads.

Have you considered the possibility that your views are a minority because they're not correct? I'm not talking of fault here (you mention this), but rather than asking people to understand you more, shouldn't you spend more time reading what people write rather than writing your wishese and whims?

Anet has taken a position on what is acceptable in their game and what is not. You agreed to it by accepting the user agreement, therefore you I don't see how you have too much of a case to complain. If you had that much of a problem with it, you wouldn't have agreed to play by their rules.

Regarding cultural acceptability, I personally have a problem with cultures that, say, think it's okay to beat women. We used to live next door to a family from Nigeria, where the husband beat his wife like twice a week. We called the police. Culture schmulture, that's bad stuff that I oppose based on my own set of principles.

Likewise, Anet has set forth standards based on their principles in this sandbox. Maybe they're arbitrary to you, or too narrow. If they are, you have the option of not accepting the user agreement and moving on to something else to occupy your time. Anet isn't saying that folks aren't free to go about their lives in a prejudicial manner. I'm sure they could care less. But you have to respect their decision (which is their right) to set up a few bouindaries in their game.

Well, the thing with "trust" is that its intrinsically subjective nature prevent it from starting from an objective place ("people who can be trusted"). It HAS to start at a point where this is "flat" and a point of reference for everyone. Because if not, you open yourself to usual attacks, where the bad guys use misinterpretation or out-of-context excuses to go back into the group.

The safest thing to do (I don't know if Anet did it knowingly) was to enable the feature to everyone, and from that first "round" determine 1) if it's viable; 2) the people that can be trusted (those giving useful reports and that are clearly not abusing the system).

Then, if they want, Anet can start a second "round" where the group of people who helped the community during the first round, can "weight" more heavily (but they can still be kicked on this grouped of "higher trust" people).

Kinda hopping in here.

I think the system is needed, but it's too easily abused. It was implimented poorly.

I remember we were in the middle of an AB and six people /reported this one ritualist for, they claimed, "leeching." He was on the other side but I defended him saying "He's moving right in front of me, I think I killed him a couple times..." So, the abuse was blatant and common.

Did you see that happening often? Like 50% of your AB matches? And is it the case for 50% of the people you talked to?

I'm pointing here at the fact that the system cannot be, in any way, perfect. People can always fake, people reading the reports can always misinterpret, both make the problem unsolvable. It's a good system if overall it improves the situation, not if it is perfect. "Overall" is important here, it cannot be "me and my friends" or "these so-called important guys in the GW world", it has to be a large number of people (and forums are probably not the place to judge that since anyone can create multiple identities to push the "vote" one way or another ...)

I'll be honest, that was my only eyewitness. But guildies and people on the AB were telling their "lol" stories too. You say they could be faking, which can be easily debated with, "They might not have."

Yes yes, bad example I know
I knew someone would say "just overtake"...we're assuming you can't overtake, mmmkay? Shhh... no. It's my example. Leave it be.

Censorship has always been way over the top, like anything, a small minority often spoil it for everyone else. While I am in favour of most swearing being "report material" there are some things that make you think "come off it? wtf?"...words like "Beaver"..and I think "Jewel" isn't allowed either is it? There clearly is a completely undefined line between what is and isn't suitable for a game such as this in my opinion, given I saw people with names I couldn't repeat on this forum getting through the filter in-game.

There is a show, that clearly demonstrates what "others are telling it" means. The show is called MythBusters.

There has been overwhelmingly positive response to the new system. Compare it to other changes to the game, where positive feedback has been next to non-existent.

I'm one of those, I think it's definately needed. I'm just saying what I saw myself. Abuse has, does, and will happen and you CANNOT deny that.

I actually liked that post Freeked, heh.

In regards to leeching - even though this is a little buried - the gaming experience greatly varies. While it's cool that you're lenient toward leechers, most people are not. Their game experience was being ruined by the leechers and AFKers. The actually playing people were interested in a fair fight, and this would greatly hinder the balance of it.

Not to mention people were just annoyed that AFKers were to get the same reward as the active players when they weren't doing anything. ANet has shown to be greatly against situations like this.

Personally I'd prefer aweful builds to AFKers, good meat shields. They slam the newb while I pick them off. Works out better than having -1 player on the field.

Not to mention that *anyone* can run amber or go bring the respawned turtles back.

I predict many a people are typing many a long response.

Not really. How come so many people hate to PUG? When you listen to their complaints, it's not "because people are noobs", it's usually a multitude of things: Cursing out, drawing inappropriate sketches on the compass, Afking the whole mission, being a general griefer. Not to mention the multitude of problems with casual PvP.

Now, it's just easier to report people. I used to have to go through a little lengthy process to report someone. Now there's just a shortcut, and more people are alerted towards it. Thumbs up says I.

Restrict it to the low tier PvP zones. There is no leecher/leaver problem in Tombs/GvG.

Make the punishment harsher. Make /reports accountable. There should be reviews of every single one. People should have to be able to prove there was actual leeching/leaving with a screenshot. If they can prove it, make the person unable to enter those zones for a day or more.

Make it so if someone leaves before you in RA, you can leave. Make it so if the match has been going on for 1:30 you can leave. Try to make it so you don't get 3 monk teams in RA. For RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO's sake, part of the reason you had so many leavers is because you had such a shitty randomizing system. Make it so you can leave if 2 of your team is dead.

Harsher punishment/more exact targeting of the problem is how to fix this. Not a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing blanket solution with a 10 minute "deterrent".

But if you ignore said person, they don't learn that what they did was inappropriate according to the rules of conduct(ie, the EULA, and you can skip the bullshit about freedom of speech, doesn't apply here). If the person is reprimanded for their actions, then they learn they cannot get away with it. It is no different then disciplining a child. Would you find it offensive if someone let their kid kick you in the shin repeatedly or scream at you without being disciplined? Sure, you may never see the kid again, but you would most likely be offended and expect action at that time.

Stop taking cheap shots at each other and stick to the topic please.

Questions ----> My pm box. Posting anything not on topic here will get your post deleted.

http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/private.php

The topics asks for feedback so heres my summary

It works, people that are offencive/annoying/leeching/leaving are getting punished
I have done non of the above and have never been reported, nor have any guildmates
Report is a success, well done Anet

Hehe, thanks Lasareth. I was just about to report him myself when his post became an "invalid link."

But seriously, this topic is just begging for greif. Of course some people are going to hate it, those people who it was designed to target (the griefers and the immature). Ignore the whining a.net. Its a great update.
Just because immature behavior becomes the norm on the internet doesn't make it socially acceptable.

EXACTLY
The kind of people this affects are the kind that will troll a thread, i do think the thread was started as a convesation but it did turn into a pitched battle
Anet have struck a victory over the people that play purely to ruin others enjoyment of the game and i for one think more should be done not taking this out but perfecting it
There will always be error and Anet will always have logs anyone that is inocent will have it fixed but so far all i've seen it punish are the idiots that annoy people and leeches

I was in AB today and noticed another rash of deserters, afk'ers, corpse /dancers, verbally abusive players, etc... All happily out in force now that /report is offline.

As flawed as /report was in its present state, it was still nice while it lasted...

I'm sure that that the people who used the /report to intimidate other players miss it as well.

I played the whole weekend without running into any of these folks. Either I was extremely lucky, or these guys are not as rampant as some posters claim.

/Report is easy to abuse in its present state because it is not intelligently coded. Some suggestions:

-An AFKer/Leecher should only be reportable if idle for more than x-seconds.
-The /report command should limited to 1 use per 10-15 minutes to prevent /report spamming.
-Those found blatantly abusing /report should be temp-banned rather than just being dishonored-pointed, or perma-banned if a repeat-offender.

I'm guessing /report takes some kind of log snap-shot of the offending and reporting player, so report abuse-detection isn't impossible, but it will be a tech-support-related operation.

Now that the Report System has been re-enabled in the game, is there any new feedback that you would like to share with the dev team?

Please post here with you comments, basing them on the "V2.0" that was released last week.

Thanks again for your input.

gaile can you please tell the team to put a box in the report window so we can type the persons name that we're reporting
I think it's stupid how we have to have them targetted

That some of us seem to be conveniently invisible here?

And we would like as close as you can get to a guarantee that the Report feature will not be used for evil extensively and into the forseeable future?

My friend got banned for three days for having a bad name. Three days seems too long to me. I've also heard of people getting banned for ever?

I think that it's unfair because on the box there is not enough warning about getting account banned...

when you buy a house, a car, sign up to a job, something - there will be a form you fill in, a contract. I don't think it's fair that the contract in guild wars (EULA) is such that you pay your £30 for the game and then you HAVE to agree.

If you don't agree, you can't play. So you buy the game not knowing you may get banned from it, and then you later discover you have to go by the rules or you get banned.

There is also warnings in other games like 'warning, experience online may change'.

Children can go up the mall and hear lots of swearing, so swearing shouldn't be a bannable offence. Not even extreme swearing.

Here in England, racism itself isn't a crime, insighting racial hatred is. I know that games have to account for other countries, but I don't think that saying the N word warrants being banned UNLESS the person saying it, gets multiple people to join in on the abuse; therefore, forming a miniture gang.

The problem with leavers is usually because they wish to sync up with friends. This is easily solved, just don't allow them to exit the game. Make them wait their time...

At the end of the round allow them to leave if they wish.

I am not sure about an AFK report what if someone has to get up and go because something happened in real life? Instead of having a report function for that, make it such that if they do not move for X amount of seconds, disallow them from receiving the benefits.

That way they'd have no motive to ruin the game.

Of course, you could maybe make an exception and ban them for an hour or something.

Now for harassment, it's highly annoying when I receive abuse from an RA player who is usually 90% of the time wrong, but not only that, he has me on ignore.

Rather than ban him for this, you should disallow being able to message someone while you are under off-line mode, Do Not Disturb mode OR you have them on your ignore list. If they are to get a friend to harass then yes perhaps ban them for a day.

I got spammed by 30 people once because of a guy so I was glad I had the guy banned. It was not something I could avoid...

Racism is, I can use chat filter.
Swear words are.

Another thing if you are going to ban tell the person before hand perhaps? Even if you set aside a maximum of two minutes for debate. My friend would of quickly changed her character name if she had of known she'd be banned. The name wasn't even offensive, it ad boobs in it with three o's or something like that.

Maybe if you could control your urge to troll you'd see that people are actually having a discussion rather than a flame war. Take your cute Star Wars picture and hang it on your wall.

Anyway, a quick bit of insight on what I've seen with the report system...I've ABed a lot in the past couple of weeks and constantly see someone reported as a leecher but then see that person out fighting a battle or capturing a flag. This is probably because people are too quick to report another player even if the player just had to step out for a few seconds. I know that's annoying, but no one deserves to be reported just for that.

Would being declared a leecher just for being AFK a minute or two create a problem?