Beastmaster.. what is it good for?

Demi

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

FL

none

W/Mo

what exactly is a beast ranger good for? I'm somewhat new to GW and I just wanted a little clarification. thanks.

-d

Floski

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

Rank Three Plus Pug [deer]

W/

Absolutely nothing.

wilebill

wilebill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mt Vernon, Ohio

Band of the Hawk

W/Mo

Just PvE only comments here. Watch some PvP or play some to see what pets can do in that arena!

1. Beastmaster is good to level up with, first of all. Makes life much easier.

2. Go to a site like guild wiki (I can't give the actual link here) and look over the skills under Ranger, Beastmaster. A pet can hit a fierce lick with pet skills greatly increasing your DPS. Plus, there are spirits and other enhancements that are very useful.

3. With a longbow and a pet, you usually take less of the direct enemy fire. You only need to keep the pet alive. Let the pet go in and get beat up! Better him than you!

4. Pets can be useful to any class, though some use them very rarely. I have a build for my hammer warrior hero that includes a pet. Excellent damage dealer.

5. Rangers run without a pet mostly when they want to configure as a ranged interrupter, or when mob levels are level 28 and full of degen and conditions. Or, when you want to be a splinter barrager with interrupts, or have some other secondary that needs the points and skill slots you would ordinarily use for your pet.

My Ranger dates back to the original release date of Prophecies. I still have my old Melandru's Stalker that I got in pre-searing.

majikmajikmajik

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

SATown~Tx

Guild Hopper!

R/

beastmaster is one of my top 3 fav. builds, you let the pet agro and take all the damage while you sit back and spam enraged lunge to do 100+ damage every 5 secs (just from that skill alone). i find it very fun to use in ab as well, murks necros, eles, mes, and monks with the quickness ^^

Dark Paladin X

Dark Paladin X

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

A/

Beastmaster can be seen:

PvE: Barrage/Pet combo, you might see this in Urgoz Warden a lot.
PvP: Bunny Thumper (or other variations with the use of daggers or scythe).

jimmyboveto

jimmyboveto

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

US

Legion of Avalon

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by majikmajikmajik
beastmaster is one of my top 3 fav. builds, you let the pet agro and take all the damage while you sit back and spam enraged lunge to do 100+ damage every 5 secs (just from that skill alone). i find it very fun to use in ab as well, murks necros, eles, mes, and monks with the quickness ^^ 100 damage every 5 seconds is pretty horrible. That's 20 dps, which is far less that that which a ranger could do without a pet.

Sir Pandra Pierva

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilebill
My Ranger dates back to the original release date of Prophecies. I still have my old Melandru's Stalker that I got in pre-searing. Damn nice I just got rid of mine in favor of a dire blackwidow.

wilebill

wilebill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mt Vernon, Ohio

Band of the Hawk

W/Mo

Well, for a dire blackwidow, yes, I would think so!

FalconDance

FalconDance

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

...deep within the sylvan splendor...

Order of the Migrating Coconuts [ALBA]

I've used a modified Bunny Thumper build in the Jade Sea quite successfully (with only henches as back-up). It was great fun .

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

I absolutely love beastmasters. That said, they aren't terribly useful.

Barrage/pet builds use a pet, and they're popular for certain areas, but they aren't really beastmasters - just barragers with charm and comfort.

Beastmasters can do a HUGE amount of armor-ignoring damage to a single target. Far, far more than a bow ranger. Enraged lunge is good for +80 every 5sec. Brutal strike is another +72 every 5sec. Feral aggression is another +10 on every attack, plus an speed buff. And all of that ignores armor. Toss on Otyugh's Cry (no longer the worst skill in the game) and it ignores blocking too. And you can afford to keep on doing it pretty much indefinitely without energy problems.
Unfortunately for the beastmaster, AoE damage is king in PvE. No amount of awesome single-target damage is going to compare with the overall DPS of splinter-barrage or conjure-barrage.

So what does that leave a beastmaster good for? IMO, 3 things:

1. Fun. So what if it's not as good as splinter-barrage? You can still have a good time tearing monsters limb from limb with enraged lunge. And your pet is still a better damage dealer and tank (Call of Protection + Otyugh's Cry = nigh indestructible) than your average hammer warrior.

2. Skill Capping. I'm working on legendary skill hunter right now. Having a decent pure ranger build so that I can change secondaries at will has proved invaluable. (And huge amounts of armor-ignoring damage for the bosses helps too.)

3. Random Arenas. Show up decked out in your PvE armor with your PvE bow skin (stormbow FTW) and your PvE pet and I guarantee you that the opposing team will think you're some noob who brought a barrage-pet build into PvP. So, at first, you'll be lowest on their target list (mid armor and believed to be low damage) and they won't even think of blinding or cursing, or even kiting, the pet. With your huge armor-ignoring, block-ignoring damage, and your opponents foolishly ignoring your pet, you can kill anyone who's not covered with prot spirit or spirit bond in a matter of seconds. Now, here's the really fun part: This is random arenas, so your opponents aren't on vent (unless they're synch joining cheaters), don't know each other (ditto), and are probably far too ashamed to admit to total strangers that their uber-leetness-sauce assn build just got insta-pwned by an iguana -- so you can just move on to the next victim (and the next and the next) without the survivors ever finding out that it's the pet that they need to blind/curse/kite/prot against until it's too late. Now, of course, once rezzed, people you've already killed once will make a beeline for you (especially assassins), but you can usually just kill them again before the do much damage to you, especially since they've got DP.

s s

s s

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2007

Rt/

Personally i dont use a pet, i generally just put down pain to help me do a bit of extra damage. But thats just my opinion, i can see how a pet can be useful.
A R/RT is pretty good.

Guana

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

LyC

Mo/

This is a quick build i did.

With a better selection of skills, weapons and runes reaching 60-70dps with a beastmaster build is easy.



And if you dont care about dps, you can create builds based in inflicting conditions, interrupting, etc...

Demi

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

FL

none

W/Mo

wow thanks guys, this looks like a lot of fun, i was looking at either rng, mes, or necro as my first character and i think rng wins lol. i'll test out a bit too but thanks for all the advise!

Coloneh

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floski
Absolutely nothing. I was going to say that. you stole my line

bungusmaximus

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

Meh pets are awesome tanks, my heroes always have pets to take the brunt of the enemy damage, works pretty OK. Especially in GW:EN, which can be very melee-unfriendly at times.

Shuuda

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
I was going to say that. you stole my line And just like him, I'm sure you would have made no attempt to back up your view.

Anyway, for a ranger/pet combo build, a Rampage as one or Never Rampage alone melee build, there is an R/W axe build on the wiki build section which works nicely. And Hammers and Spears are popular as well.

iridescentfyre

iridescentfyre

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/

In my experience, dedicated Beast Master builds are truly for people who really, really like pets. I've always been able to achieve better results with a bow build and a balanced group.

Estic

Estic

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mongoose United

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuuda
And just like him, I'm sure you would have made no attempt to back up your view.

Anyway, for a ranger/pet combo build, a Rampage as one or Never Rampage alone melee build, there is an R/W axe build on the wiki build section which works nicely. And Hammers and Spears are popular as well. WAR! What is it good for! (Absolutely nothing)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_%28Edwin_Starr_song%29

Aldric

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

[IG]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyboveto
100 damage every 5 seconds is pretty horrible. That's 20 dps, which is far less that that which a ranger could do without a pet. Well it would be 20DPS if he used that skill then sat around for the rest of the time but that was the damage from a single skill.

I don't really enjoy playing as BM but from the builds I've read they do have higher than normal DPS for a ranger - roughly 60-70 is easily very achievable

KazeMitsui

KazeMitsui

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

pretty sure its all up in yo face

[WHAT]

R/

beast master is lame imo cause pet = dumb even with controls

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldric
Well it would be 20DPS if he used that skill then sat around for the rest of the time but that was the damage from a single skill.

I don't really enjoy playing as BM but from the builds I've read they do have higher than normal DPS for a ranger - roughly 60-70 is easily very achievable Correct. Beastmastery is going to give you the best DPS against a single target among ranger builds. And quite possibly the best sustainable DPS against a single target in the game (though it might lose out to a conjure dragon slasher, idk).
Unfortunately, amazing DPS to a single target doesn't mean very much. PvE is all about using AoE damage that multiplies your DPS; and PvP is all about spiking -- more Damage In One Second (DIOS) than Damage Per Second (DPS).

(Which leads me to a stupid pun: "In PvP, DIOS is God." Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

Anyway, a beastmaster is still better than a hammer warrior at doing pretty much the same thing, so they aren't totally useless. (Devona gets into groups, doesn't she?) And they're a lot of fun. They just aren't in the same tier as splinter barrage (PvE) or ranger spike (PvP).

Shuuda

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by KazeMitsui
beast master is lame imo cause pet = dumb even with controls Well, that puts them above the level of the average PuG. Atleast ya can call a pet back too you.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

beast master builds are fun with rit weapon spells...*great dwarf weapon* hey look,kd ftw(also thumper is quite fun in pve lol)

Marverick

Marverick

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
Correct. Beastmastery is going to give you the best DPS against a single target among ranger builds. And quite possibly the best sustainable DPS against a single target in the game (though it might lose out to a conjure dragon slasher, idk).
Unfortunately, amazing DPS to a single target doesn't mean very much. PvE is all about using AoE damage that multiplies your DPS; and PvP is all about spiking -- more Damage In One Second (DIOS) than Damage Per Second (DPS).

(Which leads me to a stupid pun: "In PvP, DIOS is God." Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

Anyway, a beastmaster is still better than a hammer warrior at doing pretty much the same thing, so they aren't totally useless. (Devona gets into groups, doesn't she?) And they're a lot of fun. They just aren't in the same tier as splinter barrage (PvE) or ranger spike (PvP). I beg to differ.

[skill]Expert's Dexterity[/skill][skill]Golden Lotus Strike[/skill][skill]Fox Fangs[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Great Dwarf Armor[/skill]
And then if you have a high Delver rank, go with [skill]Lightning Reflexes[/skill][skill]Dwarven Stability[/skill]
Otherwise go with [skill]Drunken Master[/skill] you don't need to be drunk for it, 15% ish IAS works fine.

That's ~70-85 DPS against the Master of Damage guy by spamming Golden Lotus > Fox Fangs > Death Blossom, NOT INCLUDING the AoE damage caused by Death Blossom. No Enraged Lunge build is going to do that, at least not until they fix that horrific bug with Great Dwarf Weapon, and even then you have no AoE damage.

The Shelf

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2007

R/Me

Marverick, I think we're talking about pure ranger builds, not r/whatever builds. I rarely use a secondary class with my ranger, and for pure single target damage, nothing can beat a beast master ranger if you're not using any secondary stuff.

Marverick

Marverick

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

R/

The game allows you to use secondary professions, and if you don't use your secondary then too bad for you I guess...
Unless you specifically need your secondary for something else, which I doubt you do since you "rarely use a secondary class", then there's no reason not to if doing so gives you better efficiency.

Taala

Taala

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

My favourite PvE build.

Pulling out damage from Enraged with a pet that can tank too. It's just fun to play.

Atomos

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2007

D/

Awe whats with all the hate of beastmasters i love using beastmaster builds in AB. Best memory was i was fighting this assasin, he used flashing blades, to cover up his healing signet. THEN BOOM my pet hit him for 250 dmg, and he was screaming cheater!! cheating!! Also most people tend to ignore the pet, which means, bye bye enemies!
I use a variation of this build....often with Run as One instead of Call of Haste....less damage over time, but it gives me a full time sustainable running skill...great when running edges for cartography titles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
Unfortunately, amazing DPS to a single target doesn't mean very much. PvE is all about using AoE damage that multiplies your DPS; BTW....Beasties are usually "tank" builds....the purpose of any good tank is to draw enemy attention away from squishy targets so the AoE can take effect....suggesting that a Beastie build isn't effective because it only deals with one target at a time (not true with Melandru's Assault) is short sighted. The pet taking damage instead of squishies is VERY useful in PvE. Why do you think people bring tanks? A tank that can deal damage as well as take it....well....twice the butter on your toast...

RPGmaniac

RPGmaniac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

That assassin overlooked one crucial clause in Flashing Blades: "chance to block while attacking". Lol

I don't like builds that entirely rely on pets for damage. To me that takes away the whole point of being a ranger since most beastmaster builds just have you auto attacking (with the bow's somewhat low base DPS). Here's a build I've been using lately in PvE:

[wiki]Sloth Hunter's Shot[/wiki][skill]Ferocious Strike[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][wiki]Never Rampage Alone[/wiki][skill]Run As One[/skill][skill]Comfort Animal[/skill][skill]Charm Animal[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Attributes:
Beast Mastery: 12+1
Expertise: 9+1
Marksmanship: 8+1+1
Wilderness Survival: 8+1

Basically you're splitting your offense between your pet and yourself, which I feel is a crucial part to a beast master: you AND your pet fighting as one. Ferocious strike provides unlimited energy while you slam the target with Sloth Hunter's Shot (~+50 damage if they aren't using a skill, which is pretty often). This also provides a nice spike if you time it right, easily hitting over 100 at times (this is me using an Elder Stalker, so imagine what the number could be with a Dire pet). I use Zelnehlun's Longbow because of it's sundering (though I would use a 15^50 bow if I had one). Never Rampage Alone provides constant IAS for you and your pet, further enhancing your DPS (the health regen is secondary, but still can't hurt, right?). Run as One is optional, I only use it to get around. You could put in other skills like Call of Protection or another attack or even an interrupt. I'm not saying Ferocious Strike is better than Enraged Lunge, but it performs well.

Atomos

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2007

D/

And its all thanks to this lovely skill [wiki]Otyugh's Cry[/wiki] well it is that skill, but i dont know why it doesnt show the updated version :/

Rathcail

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

M. Bison goes down too.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marverick
I beg to differ. <posts assassin build>
That's an assassin build that happens to be on a ranger. Not a ranger build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinRaven
BTW....Beasties are usually "tank" builds....the purpose of any good tank is to draw enemy attention away from squishy targets so the AoE can take effect....suggesting that a Beastie build isn't effective because it only deals with one target at a time (not true with Melandru's Assault) is short sighted. The pet taking damage instead of squishies is VERY useful in PvE. Why do you think people bring tanks? A tank that can deal damage as well as take it....well....twice the butter on your toast... Pets tank well. 105 AL plus 21 damage reduction can suck up a lot of damage. But they're not as smart as a human-controlled warrior for advanced aggro control tactics like corner blocking. (Well, they're probably smarter than some warriors....) And minions serve the "mindless meatshield" role with more coverage and more damage too. In tanking, like in damage dealing, a beastmaster is very fun, is usually good enough, but is not "the best."

dont feel no pain

dont feel no pain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Uk,Wales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floski
Absolutely nothing. lol you beat me to it... well i wanted to say that XD

Omniclasm

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guild Hall

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marverick
I beg to differ.

[skill]Expert's Dexterity[/skill][skill]Golden Lotus Strike[/skill][skill]Fox Fangs[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Great Dwarf Armor[/skill]
And then if you have a high Delver rank, go with [skill]Lightning Reflexes[/skill][skill]Dwarven Stability[/skill]
Otherwise go with [skill]Drunken Master[/skill] you don't need to be drunk for it, 15% ish IAS works fine.

That's ~70-85 DPS against the Master of Damage guy by spamming Golden Lotus > Fox Fangs > Death Blossom, NOT INCLUDING the AoE damage caused by Death Blossom. No Enraged Lunge build is going to do that, at least not until they fix that horrific bug with Great Dwarf Weapon, and even then you have no AoE damage. So we have proved the Assassins have better DPS than a beastmaster. yay?

Marverick

Marverick

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omniclasm
So we have proved the Assassins have better DPS than a beastmaster. yay? It's a R/A build, how is that Assassin? The build doesn't work on Assassins in case you haven't noticed....

MisterB

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marverick
It's a R/A build, how is that Assassin? The build doesn't work on Assassins in case you haven't noticed.... Yes, it does work on Assassins, with a different elite, obviously. Take your pick:[skill]Moebius Strike[/skill] or [skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill]. You posted an Expertise Assassin build.

The only thing I like about Beastmaster is the pet can't get DP in PvE. Still not enough use for me to take him. As Cthon pointed out, they deal great single target DPS, but I'll just log in to my warrior to do that.

Hermos

Hermos

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

Forever in Demand [FiD]

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by KazeMitsui
beast master is lame imo cause pet = dumb even with controls And therefore, by your brilliant theory, Minion Masters are lame because minions = stupid because you can only have a maximum of 10 at a time. Uhh... no.

Also, to the assassins, the 'sin can do the highest DPS in the game, and it's basically why it was made. Of course the BM can't surpass an assassin in terms of DPS to a single target (in fact, I don't think any build could). As Chthon said earlier - it's fun, and it's a break from being a traditional ranger. It's also fun to get a pet integrated into normal builds when you just want to casually play the game.

MagmaRed

MagmaRed

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2007

Our Crabs Know True [LOVE]

R/

A pet can do ANYTHING in the game that any class can do, except for AoE damage. Seriously, a pet is more flexible that any character can be.

Knockdowns?
[skill]Bestial Pounce[/skill][skill]Savage Pounce[/skill][skill]Pounce[/skill]

Conditions? How many? 4 easy to use ones.

Bleeding[skill]Feral Lunge[/skill]
Poison[skill]Poisonous Bite[/skill]
Cripple[skill]Maiming Strike[/skill]
Daze[skill]Bestial Mauling[/skill]

Tanking?

[skill]Call of Protection[/skill][skill]Otyugh's Cry[/skill][skill]Symbiotic Bond[/skill]

Healing? For the pet, and you both!

[skill]Comfort Animal[/skill][skill]Heal As One[/skill][skill]Predatory Bond[/skill][skill]Predator's Pounce[/skill][skill]Companionship[/skill]

Increased attack speed and/or damage boosts?

[skill]Feral Aggression[/skill][skill]Call of Haste[/skill][skill]Rampage As One[/skill][skill]Strike As One[/skill]

There are even 'utility' skills, which offer a variety of things used by many different classes. These are for dealing with counters, interrupts, etc.

[skill]Otyugh's Cry[/skill][skill]Disrupting Lunge[/skill][skill]Run As One[/skill]

And although I won't go so far as to say a Beast Master can compete with a Marksmanship Ranger, or other classes, they CAN do AoE, without a secondary skill.

[skill]Melandru's Assault[/skill]

Beast Master is quite fun to play, and quite effective if you know how to play it. The pet simply has more options than any other class.

Magnus_1

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mo/Me

Something to be mentioned - Splinter Barrage isn't so amazing unless there are loads of enemies who are clustering together. Enemies spread out? Too bad. Only a few enemies at a time? Wasted elite.

Barrage isn't the be-all end-all ranger skill by any means.