Look At My Mm Build :)

furanshisuko

furanshisuko

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

R/

n/mo
death magic: max +3+1
soul reaping:max +1
rest protecion prayers

full radiant armour
ghial staff/woe spreader (or your choice of death weapon)

bitter chill
signet of sorrow
animate bone minions
animate flesh golem (elite)
animate shambling horror
blood of the master
taste of death
rebirth


ok i made this build my self :P
start whith golem always
i got bone minions to get a big army fast once u got the army i start getting horrors and signet of sorrow works great cuz u can hit it like crazy if there's a dead corpse next to your target

Ares Ainia

Ares Ainia

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

Edinbugger, Scotland

New Order Of Blackhearts [NooB]

Rt/Me

yeh, mate, um....

its not exactly new/ yours, its been around since the dawn of time.

Still works though..

furanshisuko

furanshisuko

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

R/

i dont remeber saying new build

milkflopance

milkflopance

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

England

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

If it's damage you're after, swap animate flesh golem for something useful, like [skill]order of undeath[/skill]

Turbobusa

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

By the Luxon Scavenger

The Mentalists [THPK]

N/

anything but flesh golem really.
I'd swap out bitter chill for deathly chill also.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Your build is, frankly, bad. Let's see what we can do to fix it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furanshisuko
n/mo
death magic: max +3+1
soul reaping:max +1
rest protecion prayers
You're going to need a self-heal with all that life sacrificing. Look here for choices. In any event, you're going to need to drop SR to 10+X to get 8 into another attribute to support a self-heal.

Quote: full radiant armour
ghial staff/woe spreader (or your choice of death weapon) woe spreader = cool skin, terrible mods. In general, you do NOT want +60hp on a MM. It usually ends up increasing your sac costs needlessly.
FYI: You're going to want to do the following with your max life:
(1) Get it low enough that your self heal can support your sac costs if you have to engage solo mode b/c your monk died, ragequit, went AFK, burned through their energy on the warrior, or whatever. See the above link for self-healing options for a list of how much max health various self-heals can support.
(2) Move it up or down so that 25% max life divides evenly into your self-heal, or reasonably close to it. (For example, if your self-heal heals you for 100, then you'd want to be as close as possible to 400, 200, or 134 max life.) This prevents overhealing or underhealing. (You don't need to do this if you use a regen-based self-heal, since that healing is smooth and continuous.)
(3) Generally lower your max life as far as you are comfortable doing. This lowers your sacrifice costs, thus lowering the energy cost of healing back your sacrifices.


Quote: bitter chill Terrible skill. 63 armor-sensitive cold damage for 5e is junk. Pretty much all the cold damage skills in the death line stink, and this one is no exception. If you want direct damage from the death line, try rotting flesh and/or well of suffering; that's where you get your bang for the buck. If you really want to pick on a single target, necrosis is going to give you more, armor-ignoring damage than any of the cold damage skills in the death line. And you should always consider the possibility of bringing utility skills instead of direct damage...

Quote: signet of sorrow Decent armor-ignoring direct damage. OK.

Quote: animate bone minions
animate shambling horror Agggg!!! No. Just... no. Look, your army is limited to 10 spaces. Add up the DPS on minions #1 through #10 and that (plus a tiny bit of direct damage from yourself) is your total offense. Put a weak minion in any one of those spaces and the missing DPS is going to come off your bottom line. Often I find myself yelling at inexperienced minion "masters" for wasting 3 or 4 slots with weak minions; you're wasting 9 slots.

Quick rundown on minion DPS for you:
Fleshy: ~26
Fiend: ~14
Bone/Vampiric/Shambling Horror: ~8
Jagged Horror: ~6*
Bone Minions: ~4
(*Jagged Horrors also cause bleeding, which would be great, except the minion AI often clusters up on the same target, so you have one jagged horror that's doing 6 DPS + 6 DPS from bleeding and all the rest are only doing 6 DPS because their target is already bleeding. Usually the bleeding effect is not enough to make up for the lower base DPS. (And then there's the lower HP and lower armor too...))

Can you see why any MM worth their salt will tell you to use as many fiends as possible, supported by as few Bone/Vampiric Horrors as needed to tank for them? (Usually that ends up as 5-7 fiends + 3-5 melee.)

I might also add that the recharge on Shambling Horror is so bad it isn't even funny.

Quote:
animate flesh golem (elite) Fleshy is a good skill. The damage and tanking ability are respectable. It's just that other elites outshine it in most situations. Order of Undeath provides a lot more DPS. AotL allows you to spam BotM to prop up regular horrors for better unfocused damage soak. Fleshy's probably the best for focused damage soak, though. But it's rare for your team to need focused damage soak and not bring a tank for that purpose. (Hard Mode Tombs is about the only example I can think of.)

Quote:
blood of the master Good.

Quote:
taste of death Good as an emergency self-heal. Just please tell me that you aren't using this to pay for your sac costs?...

Quote:
rebirth You might want to rethink rebirth on an MM. In general, it's a great rez because of the teleport. But, the energy drain is something you are particularly unsuited to handle. Unless you get a lucky shot or two of SR, sending yourself to 0e is likely to cause your army to collapse. That means rezzing in battle is pretty much a non-option and rezzing between battles is going to mean going into the next battle with little to no army left. Plus, the whole "sneak up and teleport your dead teammates out from underneath aggro" thing is a whole bunch harder to do with minions following you.

I tend to use rez chant if I'm going Mo secondary. Mo has a whole bunch of other good rezzes too.

Btw: Very good for you for bringing a rez in the first place!!!


One final suggestion: Try masochism.

furanshisuko

furanshisuko

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

R/

thanks for the update then

what would you consider a great mm build then?


edit.-so low health and might need some energy runes instead of hp i just want this build to finish gwen :P not for farming sofar its gr8 but any upgrades are welcome

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

Flesh Golem is bad, Minions are bad, Bitter Chill is bad.
(... well, Minions are *good*, but not for this kinda build... needs more Death Nova for minions)

... Dark Bond, however, is very much sweet. Use it.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by furanshisuko
thanks for the update then

what would you consider a great mm build then?
Very Generic MM Template:
Death = 12 + 1 + 3
SR = 10 + 1 or 2 (or maybe 3)
Self-Heal's Attribute = 8

1. Rez
2. BotM
3. Bone Fiend
4. Melee Minion: Vamp Horror or Bone Horror
5. Self-Heal: Heal Area or Mystic Regen (maybe others)
6. E-Management: Masochism or Signet of Lost Souls
7. Free space
8. Elite: Order of Undeath/Aura of the Lich/(maybe) Flesh Golem

Notes:If you use OoU, then use vamp horrors. If you use mystic regen, use masochism and put another enchant in the free space. (Probably dark bond or infuse condition.) If you use AtoL, you don't need another self-heal (so you could use the self-heal space as a free space), but you might bring another self heal that's "spiky" in case you need to recover from a spike. If you use Heal Area, you will need some secondary healing for during battle. (Vamp horrors are a very good option.) Good options for the free space include: Rotting Flesh, Well of Suffering, Necrosis, Signet of Sorrow, Taste of Death, various PvE-only skills, Etc... Bad options for the free space include anything in the death line that does cold damage. It might be possible to replace the rez with rez scrolls. I really haven't tried them out enough to decide if they're good enough (and cheap enough) to really replace a rez on the bar.

furanshisuko

furanshisuko

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

R/

wow,ty :P so that means i had a nooby build since factions came out XD

blue.rellik

blue.rellik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Melbourne, Australia

None

W/

Don't worry it's a good start and can become a great build, however you'll need to make some changes.

R E Z E R

R E Z E R

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2007

Grenths Executioners [Reap]

N/

The vast majority of MM builds on the whole are very similar... I mean the idea of MMing is to make as many minions as possible. Making a meat-shield. I suggest not using Taste of Death.. Kinda owns your minions, and with dark bond its not tottaly necesary. When going from one area to another Karei's Healing Circle works like a charm. But on the whole... MM builds are extremly similar, not much deviation if your an MM.

Vex

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

Oregon

I used a General minion build.
N/Mo
Death Magic: 11 + 1 + 3
Soul Reaping: 8 + 1
Healing Prayers: 11
Protection Prayers: 3

Went with: Ghial's Staff

My Skill Layout is: Flesh Golem, Bone Minions, Putrid Flesh, Death Nova, Infuse Conditions, Draw Conditions, Dwayna's Sorrow, and Rebirth.

The object of this build is to amass as many minions as possible, I then cast Death Nova on my minions and Dwayna's Sorrow so when I use putrid flesh to blow them all up Anyone in their area in my party gets healed, while they deal disease damage on all the baddies around, as they die I pick up the minions and go on doing the same as needed.

This build is not mine I got this build from a friend and he got it off of wiki so all props go to the original mind behind the build.

random.name

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

South Africa

N/

I run a weird MM build... I basically have the standard MM build, but for my elite I use SS.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vex
I used a General minion build.
N/Mo
Death Magic: 11 + 1 + 3
Soul Reaping: 8 + 1
Healing Prayers: 11
Protection Prayers: 3

Went with: Ghial's Staff

My Skill Layout is: Flesh Golem, Bone Minions, Putrid Flesh, Death Nova, Infuse Conditions, Draw Conditions, Dwayna's Sorrow, and Rebirth.

The object of this build is to amass as many minions as possible, I then cast Death Nova on my minions and Dwayna's Sorrow so when I use putrid flesh to blow them all up Anyone in their area in my party gets healed, while they deal disease damage on all the baddies around, as they die I pick up the minions and go on doing the same as needed.

This build is not mine I got this build from a friend and he got it off of wiki so all props go to the original mind behind the build.
1. This is NOT a minion master build. This is a minion bomber build. They both use minions, but they are very different in just about every other important respect.
2. Just about every post-Nightfall MB build uses JB for the elite for very good reasons. It gives you new minions for 5e -- cheaper even than bone minions or shambling horrors. And it allows you to create minions from minions in addition to minions from bodies on a greater scale than Fleshy does. And since that ability was the main draw of Fleshy for MB builds, there's not a lot to recommend the big guy for MB builds anymore. (In short: You should switch to JB.)
3. Thank you for reminding me of the infuse conditions/draw conditions gimmick. I think I know someone who might be interested in that...

Batou of Nine

Batou of Nine

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

California, USA

Angel Sharks [AS] (RiP [KaiZ] T__T")

Mo/E

Here is what i do...

i usually leave the MMing to a hero and give him:
[skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Horror[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Verata's Sacrifice[/skill][skill]Dark Bond[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

If in an all human team, then i go with:
[skill]Order of Undeath[/skill][skill]Animate Vampiric Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Horror[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Dark Bond[/skill][skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]


Thats just some variations of what i use, although i have about 12 MM builds saved, i'm just too lazy to list em all. lol.

cheers.

ValaOfTheFens

ValaOfTheFens

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Warrior Nation[WN]

I use the wiki build for myself(I could use something else but since I rarely MM there's really no reason) but for MoW or Olias I use:

[skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Horror[/skill][skill]Blood of The Master[/skill][skill]Dark Bond[/skill][skill]Well of Blood[/skill][skill]Heal Area[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

I added in Well of Blood recently after dying to Afflicted in Cantha occasionally and found there was no reason to take it out.

majiger

majiger

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

W/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon

Quick rundown on minion DPS for you:
Fleshy: ~26
Fiend: ~14
Bone/Vampiric/Shambling Horror: ~8
Jagged Horror: ~6*
Bone Minions: ~4
(*Jagged Horrors also cause bleeding, which would be great, except the minion AI often clusters up on the same target, so you have one jagged horror that's doing 6 DPS + 6 DPS from bleeding and all the rest are only doing 6 DPS because their target is already bleeding. Usually the bleeding effect is not enough to make up for the lower base DPS. (And then there's the lower HP and lower armor too...))

Can you see why any MM worth their salt will tell you to use as many fiends as possible, supported by as few Bone/Vampiric Horrors as needed to tank for them? (Usually that ends up as 5-7 fiends + 3-5 melee.)

I might also add that the recharge on Shambling Horror is so bad it isn't even funny.


Ok, I have been playing as a MM since day 1 of guild wars and seen all the crap that was going on, BONE MINIONS ARE NOT WORTHLESS!!

For anyone who decides to take Fleshy AND minions, DO NOT TAKE ANY OTHER SUMMONING SKILL!!

Here is why: Your fleshy runs around and smacks things for like 20 something dmg usually. Then you have your 9 or so minions.

All you use them for is death nova cannon fodder.(don't start flaming that it's crap I get my team out of shit in no time with this in HA(old HA where people were good and not taking builds from wiki and running that over and over, dont flame me bout this as well))

and if your taking fiend ALWAYS combo with Bone.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by majiger
Ok, I have been playing as a MM since day 1 of guild wars and seen all the crap that was going on, BONE MINIONS ARE NOT WORTHLESS!!

For anyone who decides to take Fleshy AND minions, DO NOT TAKE ANY OTHER SUMMONING SKILL!!

Here is why: Your fleshy runs around and smacks things for like 20 something dmg usually. Then you have your 9 or so minions.

All you use them for is death nova cannon fodder.(don't start flaming that it's crap I get my team out of shit in no time with this in HA(old HA where people were good and not taking builds from wiki and running that over and over, dont flame me bout this as well))

and if your taking fiend ALWAYS combo with Bone.
For a minion master bone minions are worthless. End of story.

What you're describing sounds like a bad minion bomber build. To design either well, you need to comprehend the difference. To make a decent MB build, you need to go cap Jagged Bones. To be taken seriously, you need to quit insisting that playing a minion bomber in "old HA" "since day 1 of guild wars" somehow makes your opinions any less ridiculous than if you had posted them without your autobiography attached.

Sir Pandra Pierva

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

E/

MBing is fun, I used to do it all the time in RA and PVE before jagged bones nerf.

Lavans

Lavans

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

Texas

[skill]Deathly Swarm[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Flesh Golem[/skill][skill]Rising Bile[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Taste of Death[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Works quite well...you have the option to either dish out damage relatively quick or summon bone fiends relatively quick...it makes it very easy to hit the 10 minion cap real quick.

tmakinen

tmakinen

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

www.mybearfriend.net

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

E/

Lavans, that build looks really ... random. What are you going to Arcane Echo, Rising Bile? It doesn't really make sense since you're paying 15 energy to get one extra use of a not-so-stellar skill. Talking about energy, this build uses some expensive skills but doesn't have any kind of energy management, the nerfed soul reaping doesn't provide infinite energy any more. Also, it's quite expensive to heal yourself through Taste of Death if you're feasting on fiends. Horrors would be another issue, you'd get the energy back through SR but it just won't cut with fiends so you'll be better off with Dark Bond instead of ToD. If you replace Arcane Echo with Signet of Lost Souls you get something like health and energy management. If you want to deal some additional damage, why not drop some points in curses and take MoP or Barbs which sync very well with fiends? And let's not even start about the golem ...

Lavans

Lavans

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

Texas

*Shrug* Works good enough for me. There might be some high energy cost skills, but this build is intended for solo MMing large groups of enemies, hence [skill]arcane echo[/skill], which gives you the opportunity to either pop out twice as many [skill]animate bone fiend[/skill] or twice as many [skill]deathly swarm[/skill]. Also, [skill]animate flesh golem[/skill] is very good for keeping melee characters off at bay and is even better for using taste of death as you can easily draw 500+ hp from one lv 24 [skill]animate flesh golem[/skill]. As for the [skill]blood of the master[/skill] and the [skill]rising bile[/skill], that's intended for healing your minions quick and for damaging large groups of enemies that may be surrounded by a boss mob.

Once you test out the build with max Death Magic and Soul Reaping, the skill choices makes sense...especially when you're up against a group of 8 mobs or more.

Moloch Vein

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

You're going to arcane echo a three seconds recharge 25e cost spell?

No further comments.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavans
[skill]Deathly Swarm[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Flesh Golem[/skill][skill]Rising Bile[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Taste of Death[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Works quite well... The difference between you and the OP is that the OP realized his build sucked and asked for help with it. I'm afraid your build sucks, perhaps worse than OP's did. If you'd like help improving it, just ask. That's what we're here for. You might start by reading post #9 in this thread. Parts of post #6 are background reading you clearly could use too. Or, if you'd like to go right on echoing a 25e, 3 recharge spell and believing that "it works quite well," go right ahead; that's your prerogative.

furanshisuko

furanshisuko

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

R/

lol i tried a few different builds now and minions die very fast but i dont
i got
rez
blood of the master
animate bone fiend
vampiric fiend
masochism
signet of sorrow
mystic regen
aura of the lich

i think heros work better :P

im thinking of making my mm in to a 55 ss instead

furanshisuko

furanshisuko

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

R/

this is what i started using instead of MMing my self
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10142972
works great

Full Metal X

Full Metal X

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

Zomg Lasers Pew

Or, Maybe instead of all the arguing about minion bombing vs minion master you can run both (ZOMG!).

I run 3 necros heroes 1 OoU Minion Master.
1 Jaged Bones Minion Bomber.
1 SS with Barbs/Mark of pain.

Basicly Minions do lots of damage because of OoU and barbs/mark of pain wtf pwnage and they go boom when they die (SYNERGY???? NO WAI!!!)

(To clarify the minion bomber blows up the MMs minions)

Lavans

Lavans

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
The difference between you and the OP is that the OP realized his build sucked and asked for help with it. I'm afraid your build sucks, perhaps worse than OP's did. If you'd like help improving it, just ask. That's what we're here for. You might start by reading post #9 in this thread. Parts of post #6 are background reading you clearly could use too. Or, if you'd like to go right on echoing a 25e, 3 recharge spell and believing that "it works quite well," go right ahead; that's your prerogative. If you haven't tried it, then there's not much you can say for it now is there?

Gigashadow

Gigashadow

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Bellevue, WA

W/

Flesh golem is baed.

Lavans

Lavans

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigashadow
Flesh golem is baed. As long as it keeps the mobs away from me, then it's doing its job pretty well.

furanshisuko

furanshisuko

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavans
If you haven't tried it, then there's not much you can say for it now is there?
yeah.. umm


e-management thats what we all can say about your build

Lavans

Lavans

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by furanshisuko
yeah.. umm


e-management thats what we all can say about your build thats why god invented soul reaping...u know...that thing...that gives energy...surely youve heard of it?

furanshisuko

furanshisuko

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

R/

ok let all your minions die you will get lots of energy

Moloch Vein

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavans
If you haven't tried it, then there's not much you can say for it now is there? I don't have to "try" to echo a 25e spell in order to raise a 10 minion army to know what the result will be.

Lavans

Lavans

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
I don't have to "try" to echo a 25e spell in order to raise a 10 minion army to know what the result will be. *shrug* if your going to say my MM build sucks based off your own bias, then don't bother posting why you "think" it sucks. You havent contributed any positive comments or suggestion, so do us all a favor and drop it unless you have something to actually contribute.

Full Metal X

Full Metal X

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

Zomg Lasers Pew

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavans
*shrug* if your going to say my MM build sucks based off your own bias, then don't bother posting why you "think" it sucks. You havent contributed any positive comments or suggestion, so do us all a favor and drop it unless you have something to actually contribute. There is no bias, your build just sucks.

Lavans

Lavans

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Metal X
There is no bias, your build just sucks. lol right, keep thinking that, champ

I said it once and I'll say it again...don't bother shooting off your mouth unless you have something useful to contribute

furanshisuko

furanshisuko

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

R/

lol this is not a battlefield ,the bottom line is that your build aint that good and there are in fact some other builds which might work better .so you dont need to take this as an offence to you ,you do have to consider that you are not going to be killing lots of foes in a mission or quest that will give you energy some missions wont have many corpses also

using lots of energy in any build aint good

signet of sorrow ftw

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E



Lavans, you may be in for a treat if you keep this up.
Stormlord is at the ready.