Look At My Mm Build :)
Full Metal X
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Lavans, you may be in for a treat if you keep this up.
Stormlord is at the ready.
lol
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Stormlord is at the ready.
lol123456789
Lavans
wow...i simply ask people to bite their tongue unless they have something useful to say and i get jumped...>.>
whatever
Quote:
Originally Posted by furanshisuko
whatever
Quote:
lol this is not a battlefield ,the bottom line is that your build aint that good and there are in fact some other builds which might work better .so you dont need to take this as an offence to you ,you do have to consider that you are not going to be killing lots of foes in a mission or quest that will give you energy some missions wont have many corpses also
using lots of energy in any build aint good
signet of sorrow ftw
Thank you for atleast giving some constructive criticism
using lots of energy in any build aint good
signet of sorrow ftw
Thank you for atleast giving some constructive criticism
Blackhawk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavans
wow...i simply ask people to bite their tongue unless they have something useful to say and i get jumped...>.>
whatever Well what did you REALLY expect after posting that build and getting all wound up when people dissed it, even though they're actually trying to help you out here.
Unless you're running solely with Vamp Horrors or Shamblings, Arcane echo really has no place in a MM build, as to Echo a spell thats not even an elite, not to mention has got a piddly 3 sec recharge is now lets face it, is just a bit on the silly side and a waste of a skill slot.
If you're going to run as a N/Me MM, you should look at spells that will give you either hp or energy back rather than wasting skill slots on skills which dont do a great deal to enhance the build.
whatever Well what did you REALLY expect after posting that build and getting all wound up when people dissed it, even though they're actually trying to help you out here.
Unless you're running solely with Vamp Horrors or Shamblings, Arcane echo really has no place in a MM build, as to Echo a spell thats not even an elite, not to mention has got a piddly 3 sec recharge is now lets face it, is just a bit on the silly side and a waste of a skill slot.
If you're going to run as a N/Me MM, you should look at spells that will give you either hp or energy back rather than wasting skill slots on skills which dont do a great deal to enhance the build.
I Phoenix I
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavans
[skill]Deathly Swarm[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Flesh Golem[/skill][skill]Rising Bile[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Taste of Death[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
Works quite well...you have the option to either dish out damage relatively quick or summon bone fiends relatively quick...it makes it very easy to hit the 10 minion cap real quick.
Let's see...average Necro has about 45 energy? Ah, what the heck, lets say 50.
Arcane Echo = 15 E
Animate bone Fiend = 25 E
50-15-25 = 10 E...
Regen of 20/3 energy during the 5 seconds of casting (lets go with 7 energy).
10+7 = 17 E...
So, what's the point of Echoing Animate Bone Fiend again? You're going to wait a good 6+ seconds before you can even cast Animate Bone Fiend again, so why not just scrap Arcane Echo and cast Animate Bone Fiend a second time right after it recharges?
Works quite well...you have the option to either dish out damage relatively quick or summon bone fiends relatively quick...it makes it very easy to hit the 10 minion cap real quick.
Let's see...average Necro has about 45 energy? Ah, what the heck, lets say 50.Arcane Echo = 15 E
Animate bone Fiend = 25 E
50-15-25 = 10 E...
Regen of 20/3 energy during the 5 seconds of casting (lets go with 7 energy).
10+7 = 17 E...
So, what's the point of Echoing Animate Bone Fiend again? You're going to wait a good 6+ seconds before you can even cast Animate Bone Fiend again, so why not just scrap Arcane Echo and cast Animate Bone Fiend a second time right after it recharges?
Lavans
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Phoenix I
Let's see...average Necro has about 45 energy? Ah, what the heck, lets say 50.
Arcane Echo = 15 E
Animate bone Fiend = 25 E
50-15-25 = 10 E...
Regen of 20/3 energy during the 5 seconds of casting (lets go with 7 energy).
10+7 = 17 E...
So, what's the point of Echoing Animate Bone Fiend again? You're going to wait a good 6+ seconds before you can even cast Animate Bone Fiend again, so why not just scrap Arcane Echo and cast Animate Bone Fiend a second time right after it recharges? The [skill]Arcane Echo[/skill] was put in there with the intention of busting out minions or casting [skill]Deathly Swarm[/skill] as quick as possible. Energy really isn't a problem with Soul Reaping at 15 when you and your minions are doing enough damage to kill mobs at a decent enough rate that the high energy cost of [skill]Arcane Echo[/skill] really doesn't matter.
Edit: Think about it, 3 creature deaths will get you the energy to double cast [skill]animate bone fiend[/skill], which if your a MM, those 3 deaths will come quite easily. Also, it's not a MM's concern to deal damage, because they have the minions to do that. The only thing that you need to worry about as a MM is keeping your minions alive and your group's numbers up. Once you get enough minions and run into a large group of enemies, you can literally summon more minions quicker than yours will die. If your attacking a small group, then there's no real need for [skill]arcane echo[/skill] unless you want to spam [skill]deathly swarm[/skill]
That's just my play preference though. I'm sure there's better ways out there, but this build has worked well enough for me that I really don't have the desire to think up or look up a new build.
Arcane Echo = 15 E
Animate bone Fiend = 25 E
50-15-25 = 10 E...
Regen of 20/3 energy during the 5 seconds of casting (lets go with 7 energy).
10+7 = 17 E...
So, what's the point of Echoing Animate Bone Fiend again? You're going to wait a good 6+ seconds before you can even cast Animate Bone Fiend again, so why not just scrap Arcane Echo and cast Animate Bone Fiend a second time right after it recharges? The [skill]Arcane Echo[/skill] was put in there with the intention of busting out minions or casting [skill]Deathly Swarm[/skill] as quick as possible. Energy really isn't a problem with Soul Reaping at 15 when you and your minions are doing enough damage to kill mobs at a decent enough rate that the high energy cost of [skill]Arcane Echo[/skill] really doesn't matter.
Edit: Think about it, 3 creature deaths will get you the energy to double cast [skill]animate bone fiend[/skill], which if your a MM, those 3 deaths will come quite easily. Also, it's not a MM's concern to deal damage, because they have the minions to do that. The only thing that you need to worry about as a MM is keeping your minions alive and your group's numbers up. Once you get enough minions and run into a large group of enemies, you can literally summon more minions quicker than yours will die. If your attacking a small group, then there's no real need for [skill]arcane echo[/skill] unless you want to spam [skill]deathly swarm[/skill]
That's just my play preference though. I'm sure there's better ways out there, but this build has worked well enough for me that I really don't have the desire to think up or look up a new build.
tmakinen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavans
That's just my play preference though. I'm sure there's better ways out there, but this build has worked well enough for me that I really don't have the desire to think up or look up a new build.
And therein lies the rub
Have you ever heard of 'Sealed Deck Play'? FrogDevourer, one of the founders of our guild, created an utility that gives you a random selection of skills within given parameters (like, 20 skills for a R/Me, must include a Rez Sig), out of which you must then choose 8 as your build. The idea was to avoid cookie cutter builds and promote innovative new combinations, as well as make the game equally challenging for new and seasoned build makers alike.
From the optimal build point of view these kind of random builds are truly abysmal but (almost) miraculously, they work 'well enough' in PvE. Some of your skill choices don't make any more sense than a random number generator, and I gave specific points and constructive advice in my previous post and got a 'shrug' in response. If you are not, as you proclaim, interested in making your build better, then why did you publish it in the first place?
Have you ever heard of 'Sealed Deck Play'? FrogDevourer, one of the founders of our guild, created an utility that gives you a random selection of skills within given parameters (like, 20 skills for a R/Me, must include a Rez Sig), out of which you must then choose 8 as your build. The idea was to avoid cookie cutter builds and promote innovative new combinations, as well as make the game equally challenging for new and seasoned build makers alike.
From the optimal build point of view these kind of random builds are truly abysmal but (almost) miraculously, they work 'well enough' in PvE. Some of your skill choices don't make any more sense than a random number generator, and I gave specific points and constructive advice in my previous post and got a 'shrug' in response. If you are not, as you proclaim, interested in making your build better, then why did you publish it in the first place?
Lavans
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmakinen
If you are not, as you proclaim, interested in making your build better, then why did you publish it in the first place?
I never really said that I was interested in making it better, just that I was open to constructive criticism. I published the build here to simply share with the people of this forum how I MM in PvE, and that if there was anyone that wanted to give it a shot for kicks and giggles, they could.
Corpselooter
*looks*
*laughs*
*leaves*
*laughs*
*leaves*
AuraofMana
Here's a thought:
1. Arcane echo on MM = LOLOL no.
2. When you are playing with a party, you don't even need a damage skill.
3. If you are running minions as tanks, your role isn't damage dealing. Take AOTL, BotM, and Mystic Regen (and bring another enchant like Dark Bond, Infuse Condition, or Masochism).
4. If you are running minions as damage output, you won't have time to use damage spells. Bring OoU (and Masochism so you only use 6e) and some sort of self-heal. Chances are, you won't be able to keep yourself heal, but that's okay since your minions are ripping the monsters a new one. Your monks can keep you alive, but you still should have some sort of self-heal. Mystic Regen can be used here since you are running Masochism anyway, but Heal Area/Karei's Healing Circle and others are okay as well. Consider bringing SoLS and Taste of Pain. Some people like using Vampiric Minions for a self-heal, but with GFTE and OOU (and maybe Ebon Battle Standard) each bone fiends can deal 100+ damage in HM, so I like running that.
5. If you are MBing, run Rt/N with Explosive Creation, Boon of Creation, Jagged, and Death Nova. Consider bringing Taste of Death to blow stuff up, and use Bone Minions to get 2 per summon. Putrid Explosion can be used, but disease is generally bad unless you are running Tainted. Nec primary can also run MB, but not as effective. However, you will have a lot of slots left to bring damaging spells, such as Putrid Bile and Rising Bile. Icy Veins can also be used, but then you have to give up Jagged.
6. Golem suck, don't use it.
7. Again, bring self-heal.
1. Arcane echo on MM = LOLOL no.
2. When you are playing with a party, you don't even need a damage skill.
3. If you are running minions as tanks, your role isn't damage dealing. Take AOTL, BotM, and Mystic Regen (and bring another enchant like Dark Bond, Infuse Condition, or Masochism).
4. If you are running minions as damage output, you won't have time to use damage spells. Bring OoU (and Masochism so you only use 6e) and some sort of self-heal. Chances are, you won't be able to keep yourself heal, but that's okay since your minions are ripping the monsters a new one. Your monks can keep you alive, but you still should have some sort of self-heal. Mystic Regen can be used here since you are running Masochism anyway, but Heal Area/Karei's Healing Circle and others are okay as well. Consider bringing SoLS and Taste of Pain. Some people like using Vampiric Minions for a self-heal, but with GFTE and OOU (and maybe Ebon Battle Standard) each bone fiends can deal 100+ damage in HM, so I like running that.
5. If you are MBing, run Rt/N with Explosive Creation, Boon of Creation, Jagged, and Death Nova. Consider bringing Taste of Death to blow stuff up, and use Bone Minions to get 2 per summon. Putrid Explosion can be used, but disease is generally bad unless you are running Tainted. Nec primary can also run MB, but not as effective. However, you will have a lot of slots left to bring damaging spells, such as Putrid Bile and Rising Bile. Icy Veins can also be used, but then you have to give up Jagged.
6. Golem suck, don't use it.
7. Again, bring self-heal.
super strokey
when i mm i love using Order of undeath with vamps and spamming blood of the master, its so crazy overpowered lol. That with a few fiends makes for a potent build that stays up for a long time.
Lavans
Every time I hear someone say Flesh Golem sucks doesn't back it up. Is there any valid logical reasoning behind their statement or is it just a mindless supposition?
tmakinen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavans
Every time I hear someone say Flesh Golem sucks doesn't back it up. Is there any valid logical reasoning behind their statement or is it just a mindless supposition?
Just look at it. One flesh golem is the functional equivalent of two fiends. So you're using up your elite slot to have 11 fiends instead of 10, or a 10% increase in damage output, which sucks for an elite when you have much better options around. But wait, you can recycle the golem and thus take it to places where corpses are scarce. Not good enough, take Jagged Bones and you can keep recycling your entire army indefinitely. FG used to be a hawt skill when you could have a full army of them but ANet closed the loopholes and it has been pretty meh ever since.
The only place where I might think of using Flesh Golem would be a solo MM farmer who uses FG to bootstrap the army raising process ... perhaps, haven't tried so far but assume that it could work in some cases.
The only place where I might think of using Flesh Golem would be a solo MM farmer who uses FG to bootstrap the army raising process ... perhaps, haven't tried so far but assume that it could work in some cases.
Mist Walker Skarloc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavans
wow...i simply ask people to bite their tongue unless they have something useful to say and i get jumped...>.>
My tongue's bleedin'.
Wait no, I do have something useful to say!
I'm not gonna start throwing 'ure bild iz teh suxx' at you, regardless of it being true. Instead, I'll give you this advice:
In my opinion at least, MMs don't just do damage with minions. They're meant to catch any stray aggro your frontliners didn't get. Hence, don't use Bone Fiends, use melee minions such as Shambling Horrors. I'm not a good Necromancer at all, but I know what I'd like my MM to be doing for the team.
Wait no, I do have something useful to say!
I'm not gonna start throwing 'ure bild iz teh suxx' at you, regardless of it being true. Instead, I'll give you this advice:
In my opinion at least, MMs don't just do damage with minions. They're meant to catch any stray aggro your frontliners didn't get. Hence, don't use Bone Fiends, use melee minions such as Shambling Horrors. I'm not a good Necromancer at all, but I know what I'd like my MM to be doing for the team.
Moloch Vein
It's better to use a mixture of melee and ranged minions in my opinion.
Don't drink red wine, white wine, beer, vodka, whiskey and champagne in one night kids...
Don't drink red wine, white wine, beer, vodka, whiskey and champagne in one night kids...
Carinae
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmakinen
The only place where I might think of using Flesh Golem would be a solo MM farmer who uses FG to bootstrap the army raising process ... perhaps, haven't tried so far but assume that it could work in some cases.
We have a winner!
furanshisuko
omg lol
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Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmakinen
All in all, Fleshy is not a bad skill. It's just outshone by other options, like OoU.
Moloch Vein
The best defense of the Golem is as a self-protection device serving as an anchor for Dark Bond and Infuse Condition. If it is vitally important for your MM to control at least one minion and corpses are sparse, then a Golem might not be such a bad idea.
blue.rellik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
We have a winner!
A solo MM?
Carinae
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue.rellik
A solo MM?
Sure! I made a LOT of money solo MMing Ettins.
Sniper22
Ok first, I have a problem with people who call minion masters "MMs". Reminds me of the candy and it sounds stupid...
But anyway, there are a variety of minion master builds and you should pick one which fits your parties needs. With low corpses, I liked to go jagged bones with death nova. If some tanking is needed, I'll bring golem with horrors and fiends (golem isn't as bad as you all say it is). For damage, oou with vamp horrors and fiends works fine. For my own build, I like to bring mark of pain.
Skills:
Bone Fiend, Golem, botm, heal area, mark of pain, well of ruin, sig of lost souls, res
A well placed mark of pain can do tons of damage without spreading aggro too much. Well of ruin gives the mobs cracked armor for -20 armor (min 60 armor). I use golem for this build because oou requires more energy to keep spamming it and also more heals. I also like to have at least one minion up front. Dark bond isn't really needed and the same goes for other high defensive skills. If you really die as a minion master, then you are a noob, or your group completely sucks and they lost aggro.
This build is usually just for NM. For HM i just go with minion bombs because minions get owned much faster in HM.
But anyway, there are a variety of minion master builds and you should pick one which fits your parties needs. With low corpses, I liked to go jagged bones with death nova. If some tanking is needed, I'll bring golem with horrors and fiends (golem isn't as bad as you all say it is). For damage, oou with vamp horrors and fiends works fine. For my own build, I like to bring mark of pain.
Skills:
Bone Fiend, Golem, botm, heal area, mark of pain, well of ruin, sig of lost souls, res
A well placed mark of pain can do tons of damage without spreading aggro too much. Well of ruin gives the mobs cracked armor for -20 armor (min 60 armor). I use golem for this build because oou requires more energy to keep spamming it and also more heals. I also like to have at least one minion up front. Dark bond isn't really needed and the same goes for other high defensive skills. If you really die as a minion master, then you are a noob, or your group completely sucks and they lost aggro.
This build is usually just for NM. For HM i just go with minion bombs because minions get owned much faster in HM.
Full Metal X
I don't understand why people run Flesh Golem or heal area. Flesh Golem is used for a tank? If you need a tank you're doing it wrong. Also heal area fails, ever heard of a monk?
Holly Herro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Metal X
I don't understand why people run Flesh Golem or heal area. Flesh Golem is used for a tank? If you need a tank you're doing it wrong. Also heal area fails, ever heard of a monk?
Heal area is for healing them when you're not in a fight and you don't want to lose HP. That and you might need a self heal and the monk is on low HP
furanshisuko
i would say mms are good but i think heros work better on that
i was doing a quest yesterday as mm and omg i h8 healing minions i had mystic regen masochism death nova on me :P i think i just retired of this mm thing used to love mming but well there no good build for me i will start as ss now ;(
i was doing a quest yesterday as mm and omg i h8 healing minions i had mystic regen masochism death nova on me :P i think i just retired of this mm thing used to love mming but well there no good build for me i will start as ss now ;(
Sniper22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Metal X
I don't understand why people run Flesh Golem or heal area. Flesh Golem is used for a tank? If you need a tank you're doing it wrong. Also heal area fails, ever heard of a monk?
No heal area of self heal = fail. Monks shouldn't heal up minion masters after they sac. It's just a waste of energy for them. Honestly, as a monk I never heal minion masters up and thats how it should be. It also can heal other party members too along with minions. Golems can also help keep the aggro more up front with the tank.
I don't really use mystic regen only because I like to have a hard res and I don't need to heal minions up that much :/.
I don't really use mystic regen only because I like to have a hard res and I don't need to heal minions up that much :/.
Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper22
Bottom line:
MMs, hope for a monk that covers your sac costs for you, but plan for one that doesn't.
Monks, aspire to heal your MM's sac costs, but make it one of the first places you cut your energy expenditures when resources get tight.
=DNC=Trucker
Its extremely annoying (whether more efficient or not) to heal an MM who didn't bring a self heal - also, healing after a sac often leads to an MM who says 'hey free heals for me', then goes nuts with BOTM, making it even more annoying for the monk.
When I MM, I go fiends and a few melee all the way. Have you ever watched how long it takes for melee minions to move around and pick a damn target? They spend half their potential DPS running around aimlessly thinking about who to bunch up on.
When I MM, I go fiends and a few melee all the way. Have you ever watched how long it takes for melee minions to move around and pick a damn target? They spend half their potential DPS running around aimlessly thinking about who to bunch up on.
AuraofMana
I go all fiends for damage when running OOU >_<
tmakinen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
Monks, aspire to heal your MM's sac costs, but make it one of the first places you cut your energy expenditures when resources get tight.
That is a good principle, at least in principle. In reality, there isn't a single other build capable of causing as much harm to your own party as a MM who gets herself killed in the middle of a fight. Suddenly, in addition to the monsters that were draining your monks dry in the first place, your party sits in the middle of an angry horde of Death Novaed horrors just waiting to go pop and take you with them.
Yes, when I'm monking and running low on energy, a MM is the first one to miss the love, and will also be made aware of the fact. However, if things get badly pear-shaped, I will switch priorities and do whatever I can to keep at least the MM alive so that the minions can cover the strategic retreat (and once we sneak back, the MM can recruit a new army with the help of those team members who were too unfortunate to make it in time).
Yes, when I'm monking and running low on energy, a MM is the first one to miss the love, and will also be made aware of the fact. However, if things get badly pear-shaped, I will switch priorities and do whatever I can to keep at least the MM alive so that the minions can cover the strategic retreat (and once we sneak back, the MM can recruit a new army with the help of those team members who were too unfortunate to make it in time).
John Panda
My Hero Uses this much different from everyone elses builds [;
[skill]Animate Flesh Golem[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Horror[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill][skill]rotting flesh[/skill][skill]suffering[/skill][skill]power drain[/skill][skill]leech signet[/skill]
it is very effective adds degen with massive damage its helped me get through the game no problem. good for hm to.
[skill]Animate Flesh Golem[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Horror[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill][skill]rotting flesh[/skill][skill]suffering[/skill][skill]power drain[/skill][skill]leech signet[/skill]
it is very effective adds degen with massive damage its helped me get through the game no problem. good for hm to.
dicecube
Quote:
Originally Posted by furanshisuko
i would say mms are good but i think heros work better on that
i was doing a quest yesterday as mm and omg i h8 healing minions i had mystic regen masochism death nova on me :P i think i just retired of this mm thing used to love mming but well there no good build for me i will start as ss now ;( yes finally! more corpses for me
i was doing a quest yesterday as mm and omg i h8 healing minions i had mystic regen masochism death nova on me :P i think i just retired of this mm thing used to love mming but well there no good build for me i will start as ss now ;( yes finally! more corpses for me
Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmakinen
Yes, when I'm monking and running low on energy, a MM is the first one to miss the love, and will also be made aware of the fact. However, if things get badly pear-shaped, I will switch priorities and do whatever I can to keep at least the MM alive so that the minions can cover the strategic retreat (and once we sneak back, the MM can recruit a new army with the help of those team members who were too unfortunate to make it in time).
I suppose if you find yourself in a party with a MM with no self-heal and the stupidity to sac themselves to death, then you'd best try keep them alive anyway -- then get a new MM as soon as you hit town!
navymrgoodbar
Change out your Flesh Golem For [skill]Jagged Bones[/skill] & make another necro (yourself or Hero) w/ [skill]Order of the Vampire[/skill] & [skill]Mark of Pain[/skill]. Then bring a warrior in w/ [skill]splinter weapon[/skill]. Synergy to the max. - GG.