Talking about ABs here. I report leechers all the time, but since it requires 5 others to actually get them, it's virtually impossible to actually get anyone declared a leech.
I play about 15 ABs per day and have seen ZERO times when we got six to actually declare. The most I've ever seen is three.
When I try to rally the team to declare someone a leech, everyone says:
"huh, what's a leech?"
"huh, what's a report?"
Or most popularly, "...."
So Anet, please realize that AB leeching hasn't stopped and that your system isn't working. You didn't do nearly enough to get the word out about what /report does. Only like 5% of the community actually reads forums like this, so how are they to know what to do?
Note that I'm otherwise a big fan of /report and anti-leeching measures. In things like RA it seems to work much better.
It's almost impossible to successfully /report
cebalrai
Antheus
Quote:
| Talking about ABs here. I report leechers all the time, but since it requires 5 others to actually get them, it's virtually impossible to actually get anyone declared a leech. |
iridescentfyre
If you give a player the right to report someone by themselves, you can bet your ass everyone will read THOSE update notes...because they'll be reporting anything that moves. Requiring a general consensus of your team is the trade-off we have to deal with in exchange for not getting reported by 13 year old retards who revel in the misery of others.
If no one reads the update notes, no one reads the most popular fansite forums, no one reads Wiki, and no one reads the freaking message next to your login window (I think it was there for a little while), what else really can be done? If nearly their entire customer base chooses blissful ignorance, Anet's options are limited. At least they listened enough to implement the system in the first place.
If no one reads the update notes, no one reads the most popular fansite forums, no one reads Wiki, and no one reads the freaking message next to your login window (I think it was there for a little while), what else really can be done? If nearly their entire customer base chooses blissful ignorance, Anet's options are limited. At least they listened enough to implement the system in the first place.
cebalrai
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Originally Posted by Antheus
Shouldn't it be 2 members for AB, where group size is 4?
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cebalrai
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Originally Posted by iridescentfyre
If you give a player the right to report someone by themselves, you can bet your ass everyone will read THOSE update notes...because they'll be reporting anything that moves. Requiring a general consensus of your team is the trade-off we have to deal with in exchange for not getting reported by 13 year old retards who revel in the misery of others.
If no one reads the update notes, no one reads the most popular fansite forums, no one reads Wiki, and no one reads the freaking message next to your login window (I think it was there for a little while), what else really can be done? If nearly their entire customer base chooses blissful ignorance, Anet's options are limited. At least they listened enough to implement the system in the first place. |
I'm not suggesting in any way that 1 person should be able to /report alone. But it HAS to be fewer than 6. You can barely the 3 other people in your team of 4 to do something in AB, let alone 6 people. Also, perhaps Anet could go as far as to create a button to bring up the leeching panel.
I do suggest that Anet advertise their anti-leeching measures much better than they do now. The fact that I've done several dozen ABs and have never seen the team be able to get 6/12 means that there's a problem somewhere.
Anet needs to know that leechers are currently around in full force because they know Anet has created a system unusable in the AB environment.
iridescentfyre
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Originally Posted by cebalrai
I do suggest that Anet advertise their anti-leeching measures much better than they do now.
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cebalrai
Instead of typing /report on the command line, how about a button that opens up the leeching panel. And within the panel a 1-2 line description of what a leech is. That should go a long way.
JeniM
Or billboards with news and update notes in Capitals?
I think they would be cool, an ingame way to find out what this "new build" is without starting IE
I think they would be cool, an ingame way to find out what this "new build" is without starting IE
cebalrai
Also, I think there should be a limit on how many times the leech can get declared a leecher by his team. If it X amount of times in a week, that account should get a of PvP ban for a while.
Without the threat of something like this happening, leechers are just fine with the 1 in 50 chance that they actually get fully declared a leecher. That doesn't slow them down at all. They know it's going to be another 50 games before they get pegged again, so why not leech?
Without the threat of something like this happening, leechers are just fine with the 1 in 50 chance that they actually get fully declared a leecher. That doesn't slow them down at all. They know it's going to be another 50 games before they get pegged again, so why not leech?
TheRaven
plus you have the problem on maps like the luxon canyon where the teams are separated. There may be a leecher or 2 on Team 3, but I'm on Team 1 and I can't see those folks.
I may see the chat line "X Leet Command X" has been reported for leeching, but I doubt I'll report him as well unless I can verify with my own eyes that this is true. And when I'm in AB, I'm too busy running around capping and killing to stop and notice if another team's player is leeching.
Edit: Also, I currently have no way of knowing if "X Leet Command X" is on my team or the opposing team. If I haven't encountered him on the battlefield, which would be true if he really is a leech staying in the base, then I don't even know if I can report him. At least this was the way things were during the test weekend. I haven't played AB since then. It's possible that the chat message has changed.
I may see the chat line "X Leet Command X" has been reported for leeching, but I doubt I'll report him as well unless I can verify with my own eyes that this is true. And when I'm in AB, I'm too busy running around capping and killing to stop and notice if another team's player is leeching.
Edit: Also, I currently have no way of knowing if "X Leet Command X" is on my team or the opposing team. If I haven't encountered him on the battlefield, which would be true if he really is a leech staying in the base, then I don't even know if I can report him. At least this was the way things were during the test weekend. I haven't played AB since then. It's possible that the chat message has changed.
Rocky Raccoon
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Originally Posted by cebalrai
I do suggest that Anet advertise their anti-leeching measures much better than they do now.
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Kahlindra
A note on the login screen would help; the post they made saying that spamming in local was now illegal spread the word at least a little.
Otherwise I would suggest just persevering- if you stop playing or reporting because it's not working then that's one more person who knows about it but isn't actually using it. Wider spreading of the message + everyone who knows about it using it assiduously and it will get better. Only been up a couple of days .
Otherwise I would suggest just persevering- if you stop playing or reporting because it's not working then that's one more person who knows about it but isn't actually using it. Wider spreading of the message + everyone who knows about it using it assiduously and it will get better. Only been up a couple of days .
HawkofStorms
Well if when people ask you "what's a leecher?" and you tell them, then they will know. I figure it will just take a while for enough of the "masses" to learn about the new system and use it. If nothing else, the system is at least a good deterient to leechers (ie, its a big stick even if it has no enforcement).
cebalrai
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Well if when people ask you "what's a leecher?" and you tell them, then they will know. I figure it will just take a while for enough of the "masses" to learn about the new system and use it. If nothing else, the system is at least a good deterient to leechers (ie, its a big stick even if it has no enforcement).
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TheRaven's post is very good. Even if there are enough people willing/able to report a leech, there are other obstacles.
I love the idea of anti-leeching measures, but this is simply unworkable in the AB format.
korcan
doesnt the new /report feature just encourage entire teams of leechers? for ab that is. if the entire team is leeching, no one can be reported, right?
King Zeth
is a leech like a hacker or something? if they are how do you report them?
Zeek Aran
The other 8 in the team can report them, korcan.
Zeth, a leecher is someone who takes up space and does nothing to help your side win. They get points for standing there.
Zeth, a leecher is someone who takes up space and does nothing to help your side win. They get points for standing there.
PureEvilYak
This doesn't just apply to ABs. A guildy the other day was complaining about someone who scammed them out of a droknars run. They said "1k now, 3k at Camp Rankor". Then they took the money and fled. Because the scammer left the district, no-one could report him, meaning he got away with it. Its an awesome idea, but a vicious circle. I don't see how anet can fix it without brainwashing the GW community to not abuse things set in place to improve a game.
MMOs make me lose all faith in humanity.
MMOs make me lose all faith in humanity.
Gigashadow
It could work if the people who are reported, even if by only 1-2 people on their team, very quickly accumulate enough reports across various different game instances, from many different people who have grouped with them (instead of having to have 50% of a group all report them at the same time).
Kahlindra
In the case of the drok's run you can still screen-shot the conversation and use the report ticket just like before. Sure, takes longer, but it's what you'd have had to do last week anyway. Don't let em think they can get away with it.
Zeek Aran
Kahlindra, you can't be banned for scamming for a run. It's come up often in the past, even to me. It's why so many people have done it. No consequence.
william1975
seems a bit odd to need 6 peopel to report a leecher, what happens if there are 7 then?
2 woudl be more sensible
2 woudl be more sensible
Kahlindra
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Originally Posted by Zeek Aran
Kahlindra, you can't be banned for scamming for a run. It's come up often in the past, even to me. It's why so many people have done it. No consequence.
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Zeek Aran
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Originally Posted by Kahlindra
Then not being able to /report the guy won't make a difference, surely? Unless scamming rules are changed with the report system. Are they? Not being combative, just curious. Would hope this system would be helpful.
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... =O ? ... Hm, guess not.
EDIT: Gaile summoning powers successful. Seras Aran Victoria gains a skill point.
Gaile Gray
Hi,
There are things we can address and things that we cannot. We can address an exploiter, or a bad name, or a person who engages in harassment. Use /report for those.
Just as a FYI, we cannot get in the middle of in-game arrangements that may result in "scamming," such as running arrangements. The reason is that it would take a lot of time and trouble to find out who promised what to whom and to prove that whatever was promised wasn't delivered. I have seen the Support Team calls these sorts of arrangements "Gentlemen's Agreements." That terms means that two players come to agreement about what is offered and the cost of that offering.
Example: Player Bob will run Player Grace to Drok's for 1K. However, along the way, Bob gets a phone call and goes afk, Grace gets killed, and afterwards Bob says he made a best effort, that Grace aggro'd a mob and died due to her own lack of wisdom, and he demands that Grace pay him 1/2 for the "service," anyway. Who wants to get in the middle of that mess!?
How could we establish the right and wrong of it, and mete out justice?
We have a game to develop and other projects to work on. We offer all types of game support, but we don't offer personal problem resolution. Make your arrangements with people you trust, make smart arrangements, (don't pay up front), treat others fairly (don't overcharge, don't refuse to pay those you owe), and I believe you'll find that almost all players are more than willing to meet you halfway and conduct a transaction that is good for all involved.
As far as the Report System, we do not have a /report for scammers. You can report them via the Support system, but /report does not have that category. As far as /report for leechers, I will make a suggestion that we add in-game messaging about this; I agree it would be helpful.
There are things we can address and things that we cannot. We can address an exploiter, or a bad name, or a person who engages in harassment. Use /report for those.
Just as a FYI, we cannot get in the middle of in-game arrangements that may result in "scamming," such as running arrangements. The reason is that it would take a lot of time and trouble to find out who promised what to whom and to prove that whatever was promised wasn't delivered. I have seen the Support Team calls these sorts of arrangements "Gentlemen's Agreements." That terms means that two players come to agreement about what is offered and the cost of that offering.
Example: Player Bob will run Player Grace to Drok's for 1K. However, along the way, Bob gets a phone call and goes afk, Grace gets killed, and afterwards Bob says he made a best effort, that Grace aggro'd a mob and died due to her own lack of wisdom, and he demands that Grace pay him 1/2 for the "service," anyway. Who wants to get in the middle of that mess!?
How could we establish the right and wrong of it, and mete out justice?We have a game to develop and other projects to work on. We offer all types of game support, but we don't offer personal problem resolution. Make your arrangements with people you trust, make smart arrangements, (don't pay up front), treat others fairly (don't overcharge, don't refuse to pay those you owe), and I believe you'll find that almost all players are more than willing to meet you halfway and conduct a transaction that is good for all involved.
As far as the Report System, we do not have a /report for scammers. You can report them via the Support system, but /report does not have that category. As far as /report for leechers, I will make a suggestion that we add in-game messaging about this; I agree it would be helpful.
Swift Thief
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Originally Posted by william1975
seems a bit odd to need 6 peopel to report a leecher, what happens if there are 7 then?
2 woudl be more sensible |
HawkofStorms
Umm, if 7 people out of a 12 man AB team are leechers, it would be just as fast to have your group of 4-5 active people quit the match. Sure you get dishonor, but the 7 leachers will just sit there and get zero faction if you don't fight for them (which is what happens when you report anyway). And it isn't likely to happen several matches in a row so you should be able to work the dishonor off.
Orinn
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
Hi,
Example: Player Bob will run Player Grace to Drok's for 1K. However, along the way, Bob gets a phone call and goes afk, Grace gets killed, and afterwards Bob says he made a best effort, that Grace aggro'd a mob and died due to her own lack of wisdom, and he demands that Grace pay him 1/2 for the "service," anyway. Who wants to get in the middle of that mess!? How could we establish the right and wrong of it, and mete out justice? |
"While playing Guild Wars, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. You will not report players maliciously, or cause them to be investigated without reason." -Rule 1, Rules of Conduct. I see specifically "you may not defraud..." so isn't that a breach of the rules of conduct?
I realize that if I get scammed in-game, then ANet won't refund me, but the official position seems to be that scammers are free to do as they please, because scamming someone isn't breaking the rules of conduct. I never did get a satisfactory answer when I emailed support a few weeks ago, can you tell us if it against the Rules of Conduct to cheat someone, and can you be banned for it?
=HT=Ingram
I think the point is it has to be OBVIOUS to everyone before a report goes through... Not the typical rage report that tend to happen just cause someone does not like what a person is doing.
The report function IS working. all of PvP is better then it was several weeks ago. NO ONE can deny that... If anything more people are playing PvP again which is what that part of the game needed. More blood.
The people that are being effected are the ones that were consistantly doing it and causing the problem... Some of my guildies included it turns out... To which I say, dude, if you have to leave , do so, but don't be playing PvP if you do not plan to have time to play. I don't think thats unreasonable... If you want to waste some time do it with heroes and henchies and that way its just you. Then your not screwing over others in the process.
Of course they always bitch a little over it. but even if they get the dishonor hex for a short time, well hell your leaving anyway right? let it run out and play normally later...
The report function IS working. all of PvP is better then it was several weeks ago. NO ONE can deny that... If anything more people are playing PvP again which is what that part of the game needed. More blood.
The people that are being effected are the ones that were consistantly doing it and causing the problem... Some of my guildies included it turns out... To which I say, dude, if you have to leave , do so, but don't be playing PvP if you do not plan to have time to play. I don't think thats unreasonable... If you want to waste some time do it with heroes and henchies and that way its just you. Then your not screwing over others in the process.
Of course they always bitch a little over it. but even if they get the dishonor hex for a short time, well hell your leaving anyway right? let it run out and play normally later...
Snow Bunny
I've encountered I suppose what is the opposite experience. If I AB, and someone gets reported, it's like a chain reaction, and often 3-10 people will follow suit in reporting, judging by team chat.
It's a weird *mob justice* mentality.
I got reported for calling someone a moron. Lol.
It's a weird *mob justice* mentality.
I got reported for calling someone a moron. Lol.
Gaile Gray
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Originally Posted by Orinn
I realize that if I get scammed in-game, then ANet won't refund me, but the official position seems to be that scammers are free to do as they please, because scamming someone isn't breaking the rules of conduct. I never did get a satisfactory answer when I emailed support a few weeks ago, can you tell us if it against the Rules of Conduct to cheat someone, and can you be banned for it?
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Now, you're right we will not refund lost items. Why? Because to do so is to start a flood of claims of "rollbacks" and "cheats" and "hacked accounts" and more. Only to find that the rollbacks didn't happen, the cheat was a private matter, and the hacked account was a shared account between two friends who had a disagreement about who owned what. (That happens a ton, which really surprised me.)
I know that Support saying "We cannot help you with this issue" is difficult to accept. But in order to mediate the matter, we could very easily spend $100, $200, and more for a single 1,000 gold-piece transaction. Even monthly fee games don't provide such a level of service, and we're not able to do so, either. It is like the police department won't pursue the guy who borrowed your lawn clippers and failed to return them. We will get involved in larger issues or in cases where a player is reported several times. But as you know we cannot reveal the outcomes of that investigation to others. (I wish that we could; it would establish how much is actually getting done, rather than leaving that to speculation.)
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
I got reported for calling someone a moron. Lol.
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=HT=Ingram
Personally I think if you can not make your payment within the limits of the trade button function, then possibily there is a problem with your price and what your trying to buy or sell. there just is no reason to be over the trade limits of 100K for any item. And if you can not use something like lockpicks or ecto or gems to make up the difference, then I absolutely know the price is too high...
Anet has made significant changes to the trade function to prevent scams. IE quick bait and switches for fake ecto and such... And other things such as runs and other services. well. Sorry I just can't justify that as something they would care much about. Were talking about paying for a way to cheat after all. If you can not get a friend to do it with you from just playing, then maybe you should not be doing it until you join a group of people that will help you, instead of exploit you.
Anet has made significant changes to the trade function to prevent scams. IE quick bait and switches for fake ecto and such... And other things such as runs and other services. well. Sorry I just can't justify that as something they would care much about. Were talking about paying for a way to cheat after all. If you can not get a friend to do it with you from just playing, then maybe you should not be doing it until you join a group of people that will help you, instead of exploit you.
Gigashadow
One problem is that some of the scripts people use to leech are good enough to fool people.
For example, there is a well known female elementalist bot who leeches Fort Aspenwood Kurzick side all day long. She is a script that runs around casting Flame Djin's Haste, Glyph of Lesser Energy, and a couple of other self targeted skills. The guy who wrote that bot recorded about 30 seconds worth of mouse movements and keyboard clicks, that get replayed over and over again. Eventually the bot fumbles its way out of the spawn area, where people get fooled into thinking it is actually a player.
While in the outpost awaiting the next match, it continues to run around in its prerecorded and sporadic movement pattern.
For example, there is a well known female elementalist bot who leeches Fort Aspenwood Kurzick side all day long. She is a script that runs around casting Flame Djin's Haste, Glyph of Lesser Energy, and a couple of other self targeted skills. The guy who wrote that bot recorded about 30 seconds worth of mouse movements and keyboard clicks, that get replayed over and over again. Eventually the bot fumbles its way out of the spawn area, where people get fooled into thinking it is actually a player.
While in the outpost awaiting the next match, it continues to run around in its prerecorded and sporadic movement pattern.
cebalrai
Yeah there might be a couple bots in AB-type games, but 99% of the problem is simply low-tech leechers.
DreamRunner
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
Example: Player Bob will run Player Grace to Drok's for 1K. However, along the way, Bob gets a phone call and goes afk, Grace gets killed, and afterwards Bob says he made a best effort, that Grace aggro'd a mob and died due to her own lack of wisdom, and he demands that Grace pay him 1/2 for the "service," anyway. Who wants to get in the middle of that mess!?
How could we establish the right and wrong of it, and mete out justice? |
I hate the word justice, its a bad word and although people use a lot, people also find it hard to explain what justice is. Its like trying to explain what art is. Of course people know what justice and art is, but explaining it to a person by definition what each term is. Well thats something people have had trouble doing for a long time.
De Wilde
I've been trying to help people with the /report thing. NOT telling them how to report, and not reporting them but by doing something that seems that has caused me to get a little bit of grief.
I was rambling around Kamadan and Kaineng City late last night, and saw a few people who were trading in the local, which can be a report offense from what I've seen.
I say to move it over to the trade channel, not being rude about it, and the people do it, not realizing perhaps that that is where it's meant to go.
However, while I was in KC last night, I notice a guy who's wanting to buy something in the local channel, I'm like "take it over to the trade channel" and he pretty much tells me to bugger off, and then as someone was like "That's uncalled for" (talking about the guy I was trying to help) he said he was going to ignore him.
I then state "Hey man, I'm just trying to make sure you don't get reported" (or something to that effect) and then continued on with "If you don't want to that's fine, ignore me - GG"
I know some people get a little report happy, have seen it myself.
However... Because I've been attempting to give a li'l advice... I started getting pm's... Apparently either this guy or the guy's friend or something told people in Kamadan that I was giving away free ecto's. Thankfully I got a nice person who told me what was going on, as I was curious as to the pm's I was getting, and they told others that I wasn't.
So... It can also be just as rough as to try and help someone out from getting reported for lack of insight or foresight, as it can be to report someone for the same things.
I think I'll just stay in my little hole from now on.
And on the aside of AB Leeching reporting?
Sometimes it's difficult to tell if someone is a leecher or not, or more to the point, knowing if someone is lagging or not. There was an occurance where one person was going report happy on two people. One was a leecher, the other one was having severely bad lag and was able to type but couldn't move, and he got reported too.
It'll take some time to get the kinks worked out.
I was rambling around Kamadan and Kaineng City late last night, and saw a few people who were trading in the local, which can be a report offense from what I've seen.
I say to move it over to the trade channel, not being rude about it, and the people do it, not realizing perhaps that that is where it's meant to go.
However, while I was in KC last night, I notice a guy who's wanting to buy something in the local channel, I'm like "take it over to the trade channel" and he pretty much tells me to bugger off, and then as someone was like "That's uncalled for" (talking about the guy I was trying to help) he said he was going to ignore him.
I then state "Hey man, I'm just trying to make sure you don't get reported" (or something to that effect) and then continued on with "If you don't want to that's fine, ignore me - GG"
I know some people get a little report happy, have seen it myself.
However... Because I've been attempting to give a li'l advice... I started getting pm's... Apparently either this guy or the guy's friend or something told people in Kamadan that I was giving away free ecto's. Thankfully I got a nice person who told me what was going on, as I was curious as to the pm's I was getting, and they told others that I wasn't.
So... It can also be just as rough as to try and help someone out from getting reported for lack of insight or foresight, as it can be to report someone for the same things.
I think I'll just stay in my little hole from now on.
And on the aside of AB Leeching reporting?
Sometimes it's difficult to tell if someone is a leecher or not, or more to the point, knowing if someone is lagging or not. There was an occurance where one person was going report happy on two people. One was a leecher, the other one was having severely bad lag and was able to type but couldn't move, and he got reported too.
It'll take some time to get the kinks worked out.
Daakkon
can you please make it so we don't have to target someone to /report them?
like put a little box so we can type ones name into
like put a little box so we can type ones name into
Red Sonya
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Originally Posted by Kahlindra
In the case of the drok's run you can still screen-shot the conversation and use the report ticket just like before. Sure, takes longer, but it's what you'd have had to do last week anyway. Don't let em think they can get away with it.
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The best thing EVERYONE should do is when you goto that Support Ask a Question page for the first time you should put it in your FAVORITES place in your address bar and then when someone needs to be reported you can go directly to that Ask a Question page and report them an it doesn't take near as long to do the report. Then hopefully they will get at least a 72 hour ban. Though I think Anet is too easy on some of these people because I put them in my friends list and after 3 days they will be right back at that same place where I reported them before doing it again. We need some serious longgggg bans like a week or a month, then that might teach them a lesson they won't forget.
luin_gunners
Actually got enough dishonor points myself cause not enough people on my team report the leecher(s). Almost as if taking out the leechers kamikazi style. There is already a notice everytime you join a match but people still don't report.
Also with 7/12 leechers...just quit and join another game.
Also with 7/12 leechers...just quit and join another game.
Ulterion
Quit & rejoin = DH. /report by urself = DH. Someone hates ur guts & reports u and convinces everyone else to do likewise = DH. Emo /reports u for willingly killing urself in RA or standing idle because u know the battle's lost = DH.
Y- you just... never win. NEVER. GG Anet.
Y- you just... never win. NEVER. GG Anet.