We should be able to use henches in Fow/UW now

I've got reasons to say that the possibility for all hero/hench for areas like Domain of Anguish, UW, FoW, The Deep and Urgoz's Warren should be avoided, but posting them led to the closure of the "Petition: 7 heroes" thread (well, I won't be so arrogant as to take full credit, let's say the flame wars it initiated eventually killed it). One of the reasons is, in short, that it's an online game and if you can do everything solo there's just no bloody reason for that anymore, they might as well close the servers. (see http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...90#post3180190)

On a different note, shouldn't this be in the suggestions forum (aka Sardelac)?

Nah it's fine here for the minute. If people start doing this "/signed" then yea it's going to the loony bin..sorry sardelac

Wow. So if we allow people to solo all areas, it's your belief no one will play in groups any more? If everyone so completely prefers solo play to multiplay, I wonder why multiplayer games exist at all?

Your argument is ridiculous, of course. Allowing solo play in all areas of the game will not significantly impact group play in those areas, it will simply allow those of us that enjoy playing solo (or whose time constraints only realistically allow solo play the bulk of the time) to access regions of the game that are functionally closed to us.

It's the same old "you have to play my way or not play at all" argument one always gets out of the PUG crowd, disguised as something new. I have no desire to eliminate group play from sections of the game, why are you so desperate to deny soloers the ability to play through all areas of the game? I guess we're just not equal members of the player base in your eyes. It's not an exclusively multiplayer game for the umpteenth time, read your original game box.

I totally agree. This was one the biggest draws for me to this game was being able to play solo. You already can "solo" (with a hero) most of UW and FOW anyway so why not let henchies in. You won't get any better drops because of it. I have tried pugs before and it left a very bad impression. It takes 3 times as long to do anything and there's always an argument or quitting.

I think it would be a big mistake for Anet to push group only play in GW2. I think they would lose alot of their player base.

Oh I dunno, because some people do like to play multiplayer games and buy them for that reason? Honestly, why, just somebody tell me once, WHY would you buy an ONLINE game if you want to play solo anyway? Play Zelda or whatever... Jezus, I can't beleive I actually have to resort to this kind of tripe rhetoric but:
Wars.
ZOMG solo lololololololol

I don't give two hoots about whether or not it "affects group play". I'll put it bluntly: no, I do not want you, who "enjoys playing solo" to get the full benefits of the game. Yes, I want the game to be elitist. Or at least, in that respect that, BEING AN ONLINE (!!!) GAME CALLED GUILD (!!!) WARS you should not be able to solo everything. If you feel you can't enjoy the game because there are a total of 5 (UW/FoW/DoA/Urgoz/Warren) areas you CAN'T solo, go cry in a corner. You can even, unlike in a lot of MMOs (oh wait this isn't an MMO, it's a CORP - /care), get max damage weapons and perfect armor playing solo. You can get all skills. You can play all missions. You can, in fact, do everything the game offers.

Now, apparently, what you have to start whining about is that there are one or two things that require you to team up, play strategically and cooperate to defeat some more challlenging goals. Yes, I beleive playing as a team should be rewarded - with a couple of nice LOOKING (not even BETTER) weapons, a nice set of armor and a title or two in Hall of Monuments. Technically, it's not even elitism, it's rewarding teamplay.

Fundamentally, there is no TERRIBLE DISCRIMINATION of solo play going on, which is how you seem to want to portray it. Yes, there's a reward for playing in a team. Yes, it should stay there.


HA is "functionally closed" to you.
GvG is "functionally closed" to you.
TA is "functionally closed" to you.
RA should be functionally closed to you because you're a "solo player" who doesn't bring res sig, you didn't ask for a team after all. And hey, Tahlkora wouldn't have died on you, so why res this noob?

Next you're going to start a thread asking for Team PvP to be soloable. I mean, so what if it's TEAM PvP, it was GUILD wars after all and I'm an antisocial emo.

Oh and then you'll start a thread saying it's unfair human teams win more halls matches than 7 heroes + 1 man teams. Teams have like a OMG unfair advantage.

a) Not one of the "PUG crowd", whatever in the hell that is anyway. I never PUG if I can avoid it.
b) Playing in a team gives you an advantage. This should remain more than the superficial one of "it going faster" with the team.
c) No, I'm not desperate. But yes, I will try to keep you out of some areas. And yes, I'm seriously considering it should be more than just "some areas", if you get my gist.
d) Yes, you are an equal member of the player base. Guess what's better than an equal member of the player base?
TWO EQUAL MEMBERS OF THE PLAYER BASE PLAYING TOGETHER.
OMG HACKS LOL
Want it in math?
For all x,y element of GW goes that: if x=1 and y=2, y>x and x<y.
Not that it mattters.
e) Hey, I read my original game box. Guess what? A game that allows both solo and team play. Does it allow solo play? Yes. Does it allow team play? Yes. Does it say you can play solo in every area? Woops, they ripped me off...
And btw, as of Nightfall, they actually have eliminated group play from sections of the game. Or at least added a section without team play. You know, I think I'm going to go cry about that for a while. Then I'm going to make a thread asking that you can form a player team for Hero Battles, because it's like, totally unfair I can't get commander title by playing with other players in a game that said you could play multiplayer.

There, my rant draws to a close. You're probably not going to read it. Or if you are, you're probably not going to understand how hard you whining just got stomped in the colon. If anyone else reads it, I hope it provides you with a grin, maybe even a chuckle or two.
Cheers

Because it's a good game, and it's never been stated that people *have* to play with other people.

In regards to your rhetoric: It never said that the guilds in the game couldn't be AI.

To be honest I would take heroes and henchmen almost anywhere to avoid a pug. I have been in a Pug 1 time in the last 8 monthish and guess where...fow..and guess what...our healer monk lost connection and dropped out. I would absolutely love to be able to take henches to these places (don't see them disconnecting)..FoW would be a breeze with a friend and 6 heroes...it's the PUG that makes it a challenge, and that is NOT how it should be.

I totally agree Lets open the FOW and underworld

1. I want a spider
2. Just because I am a loner does not mean I should be Non-Ecto worthy ( I have only seen one in two years of play)
3. The titles (Can’t get them by yourself and three heroes)
4. Would like to meet the Forge master some day.

I play alone like many others because my life is busy and always disrupted by real life things. Kids are always the best mesmers when it comes to disrupting my playing.

You know, I totally agree too.

Let's open the HA and GvG

1. I want a phoenix emote
2. Just because I'm a loner does not mean I should be Non-HoH drop worthy (I have only seen one crystalline in two years of play)
3. The titles (can't get them by myself and three heroes)
4. Would like to meet [PnH], the Guild Lord and the Ghostly Hero some day

I play alone like many others because my life is busy and always disrupted by real life things. Because I have a life, I should realise that I cannot expect to achieve every reward and complete every goal in the game. Domain of Anguish, UW and FoW were meant as challenging areas for players that have completed the regular game and want a little extra. To get this, they have to team up (which I still think is a brilliant idea - nothing stimulates sociability more than spending 2 hours with a 40-man group downing one boss for possible epic rewards). Should I be bothered there is one set of armor, one set of weapons, a few greens and two rare crafting materials I cannot myself (actually only the armor requires you to actually do one of those areas, you can buy everything else - you don't even have to find it yourself in this game) considering I can complete every mission, dungeon, explorable area and quest not related to the "elite" content, as well as get any armor set, any weapon, any amount of gold, every possible title (there's only Hall of Monument "achievements" to be gotten in the elite areas, no real titles).

I'm sorry to have used exactly your post for this, beleive me when I say it's nothing personal - I rather liked the "children=best mesmers" thing btw, but this attitude of self-pity is really, really, really annoying me. There is nothing wrong with one or two areas that require team play if you consider there are 136 explorable areas, some 70 missions (includes Eye Primary Quests), 19 dungeons and hundreds of quests that you can do solo.

Vinraith if anyone uses the same ole arguements everytime they post it's YOU. When are you going to realize everything in the game wasn't meant for SOLOers. huh? When? The elite areas are meant for GROUP play, they have the best gear and the most sought after items. These should NOT be soloable and should be made even harder if some soloers sneak in an are able to do it. Most though can only do specific areas, it's not like they can solo the entire zones or should be albe to.

There are NOT going to be henchies allowed in UW/FOW so you might as well get used to that. You can preach and preach and moan an groan all you want, but, these areas are made for groupings or at least two players now, perhaps later if they make them harder it will require 3 or 4 or more humans. I'm all for that.

There is the problem right there!

Anet need to come to grips with fact they can not, have not nor will ever force people to play the way they (Anet) think they should play, period!

It is time for them to give up that ghost and let all of us who paid $49.00 for their game and the expansions to play them any way they see fit with out any impedance i.e being forced to group with other humans to get in some areas of the game.

I'm saddened by the fact you insist on wanting to go in alone, with all hero/ henchies.
Surely you have ONE other 'human' friend/guildie/newb you would want to share the experience with?
Even Racthoh isn't THAT cold hearted.
(I don't think?.... )
I'm not knocking your preferences, just curious as to WHY you don't want to enjoy a MMPORG with other peoples.
_________________
PvE Helpful Hint #190: Dunkaroo eats runes for breakfast.

I am for allowing henchies in to FoW and UW only. But not for DoA / Urgoz / The Deep.

As someone said previously, if henchies are so stupid and uncontrollable, they shouldn't pose any threat or allow it to be any easier in actual gameplay. Not to mention, it will cost a full 1K for 1 person to enter instead of a split of the cost amongst the team. Soloer's would simply have to pay more to enjoy the privilage of solo play.

Secondly, FoW and UW are core areas. No matter what chapter you own, you have access. However "Elite" Areas are specific to their chapter. You cannot enter the Deep unless you Have factions, can't enter DoA unless you have Nightfall, can't enter Slaver's Exile without EotN (and it's elite status is sometimes in question by some, but that's another debate).

Therefore, being such a universally accessible area of play, why would FoW & UW deny solo players that whant a hero & hench party? Guess its not as universally accessible as one may have thought. (Apart from the favor aspect).

This whole debate that I see unfolding in this thread is reminding me of the hair stylist debate. Where people would want to deny the world the availability of such a thing simply because it doesnt fit with what they think the game should be. You can enjoy the hairstylist, but if you hate the concept of one, then dont use it...simple as that. So the same argument can be used here...and obviously the same opposition is being presented.

If you don't want to play solo, then don't. However, why move to deny others who desire to play that way? GW having the game world instanced except for towns doesn't lend itself to be a purely social game such as WoW or L2 or FFXI where you can actually meet people as you adventure through the lands. Every Person / Party gets their own instance of their areas.

The sarcastic PvP modes being soloable are simply ridiculous and were never in question by the original post. Thats what Hero Battles are for. Otherwise, PvP in nature = more than 1 human player.

The fact is, Anet employees such as Jeff strain have often spoke on the matter of NOT having to spend a lot of effort to find a group to ___ obscure quest or whatever. Which is the motivation behind having heroes to begin with. Granted, they often cited that 1 person with 3 heroes and another person with 3 heroes was the resolution. Thats how I managed to get Razah, couldnt adequately use just Hero & hench...bet I could now though...-_-

Anyway, I am Pro Henchies in FoW / UW and NOT for Henchies in the "Elite" areas.

Feel attacked by this 'political' stance all you like. Agree with me all you like. Flame me all you like. Regardless of how I feel or what I say or how anyone else feels or what they say, ANET has THE SAY.

I just put faith into them that IF the situation needs to be looked into, that they will take the appropriate action to balance it fairly. Perhaps a higher entry cost when you go solo? Not 'enjoyable' but its nice to have the option to do ...whatever. I enjoy a game that gives me multiple options and paths to complete a specific goal. I simply hope that they give some more options to enjoy the ONLY 2 PvE areas UNIVERSALLY accessible from every chapter. (That does not include Battle Isles area obviously)

Until then, just enjoy the game

In my experience, people who like to hero/hench stuff absolutely despise PvP, so that's pretty moot.

/signed for henches in FoW/UW, since it seems that 7 heroes is a lost cause.

Because other people don't listen, lose connection, think they are 'leet', swear, piss, moan, bicker, etc...

it's nice to have other 'peoples' to buy/sell/trade with, enjoy within the guild, chat with once in awhile, but it's so much nicer to walk into a city, HAND PICK your group without having to worry about waiting around for what can take 10, 20, 30 minutes, and go kill stuff. How does taking henches/heroes to any place (outside pvp) anger anyone...drops won't be any better for the solo person, and people who like to play with other people will continue to form groups.

/signed for heroes/henches

I personally am not angered...just disheartened to the facts being stated here..(yes, facts)
1.) The original spirit of GUILD Wars was for people to gather, and go thru the game as a team. (friends, compadres, ect. NO PUGS..unless you feel up to a challenge.)
2.) The sinking feeling of greed and the connection to 'lewt scaling.'
3.) meh...I give up on so and so...I don't want to be near these n00bs anymore.
It is your game, you paid for it.
I hope playing alone is what you truly wish.

Can someone with the rights to do a poll run one on this debate? I truly would like to see the numbers.

As a preferred soloer I will speak for myself on this;

I do not like being in guilds as my play time is limited, this may even sound selfish, but I usually always end up spending most of my time helping out guildes rather than playing the game myself. When you are in a guild you are virtually obligated too and when you don't you hurt others feelings or make them dislike you.

I do not like PUGs for various reasons like waiting a hour or more to get in a group, being invited only to be kicked for someone else, the pressure of not accidentally screwing up and getting blamed/kicked, having half the team leave before we have completed the mission, whining, greed, rageing etc..

To me the game is so much more fun not having to put up with that nonsense and heroes and henches do none of the above. So why should I be stopped from having fun and playing through a game I paid for because of hench prohibitions or the disallowance of 4 more Heroes? Why should anyone?


Answer is we should not and Anet is neck deep in a big vat of wrong with no excuse for even being in it by making us..

Yeah of course its fun to play with friends, blah blah blah, but you know how many of my friends play this game? 2. 2 friends, who aren't on at the same time as I am...so why should that be my problem...i can't force people to buy the game so that i dont have to deal with a flaw in it. There are a few guildies that i like to play with as well, but seriously....not everyone is as 'popular' as you are in guild wars. See the other side of the fence....

if some of you havent noticed all mmo's promote solo play and guild wars 2 is still going to be that way only without having a full party, you can finally go completely solo in areas. to those of you who say that its an mmo you have to group with others, that is half true and its an option. for an mmo it also means having multiple players in the same server simultaneously and even when all of those players are soloing doing there own thing. you dont have to necessarily group with others to play to call it a multiplayer game. my main reason for playing mmo's is to play its entire content, even though i do group with others its never my reason to play mmo's. i think everyone should be able to play the entire content no matter what their preferred playstyle

what i mentioned there is for pve, for pvp you do have to group with others because its player vs player. except for 1vs1 including hero vs hero

This is why ToA should be considered an Ascention area only just like the other 2 in Factions and NF.You would need to be level 20 before you hit LA and then from there take the boat and get ascended.It never use to be as you never use to be ascended to go down there and it feels awkward to a low level around a bunch of 20s looking to go down.

To be honest i never understood why H/H parties can not enter FoW/UW or any other PvE parts of the game.

I do understand any MMO should promote teamplay based options but that is different from restraining users to access certain areas (i'm talking about PvE) anyway they like, even if this, most probably, mean that they'll fail.

Saying that FoW/UW is meant to be played by teams is not true. It would be if it prevents me to enter there all alone. And it doesn't.

I do think that the best of GW is achieved by playing in human based teams and love to play with some regular friends but, do recognise that most PUGs sucks (the reasons are already pointed).
I would understood that title for completing quests/missions/etc with human based teams could be created. I would understand that owning towns/outpost could be extended to other parts of the game beside Factions. This, and probably much more ideas could be pointed (those were just two quick ideas that came into my mind...), would promote and reward human team based gameplay and competition between guilds.
Restraining access to players and imposing then the way to play i never thought it as good idea.

Also, it's possible for me to enter these areas with heros so the main questions is why can't players from Factions and Prophecies use henchman?
Ascencion? Do you really believe this?
Being those core areas isn't there some discrimination between players? wouldn't it be much correct then to establish a limit to the number of NPC that can be used in these areas?

So even i doubt it will do any good, i'll have to signe the original thread idea.

Yes please. Getting Eternal Conqueror of FoW would be cake, if not for the whole grouping thing. UW would still be very difficult though.

Sorry, I'm way too old for this. I don't see why I should ever ever ever be forced to play with people I don't like. I'm grown-up now. That kind of regulation is for little kids who can't fight back.

I agree that all areas should be accessible to players with heroes/henchies. If players want to spend a plat tackling an area on their own, that's entirely their own business. Though I guess we would then get the unending puerile threads about how cool they were to do so...

... and Domain of Anguish.

/signed.

With HM they prooved they could change henchies levels when zoning in certain conditions. It should not be impossible to take hench and make them level 20 HM hench after zoning into UW/FOW/DEEP/URGOZ/DOA.

I'd like this option myself.

I don't understand we cannot take H+H either.
One thing I know is that it's not about the drops/farming.
I used to occationally solofarm UW with my ele. It was fast and proffitable.
Taking H+H would be bad for income.

Definitely get with people who know what they're doing then. Ask around...find out who does what and how often. I was in the Deep for the first time the other day, as a spirit spammer. Hard mode. It started off bad because I didn't know where to go(room one...they're not fkn labeled and to me, 1-4 starts from left to right, not the other way around ffs) but once we got past the first rooms, we made it through without a hitch...as long as I was told what to do where and when.

Get a competent group. Make an EFFORT to get into a competent group. Those who are competent at it, put on the friend's list and call if you want to do it again. DarkGanni on here does the Deep, UW, FoW often (and I do as well, usually with him, aside from the deep) and has a whole network of friends to call on at any given time.

And how am i supposed to do this 'Hey Mr. W/A are you competent?' 'Hey Mo/ are you competent?' Is there a 'I'm a competent guild wars player' title??? NO there isn't, never will be, and can't be because a large percentage of people who play won't listen, have their own way, and have no intentions of ever being competent. On paper the group may look awesome when really 5/8 people have never been in the area/3 people have bad connection and will continually disconnect throughout game play, etc, etc....Heroes were invented to alleviate having to find a 'competent' group, plus who wants to wait around for 45 minutes before entering a zone only to find that the group they are in is a bunch of dicks who only wanted to open the first chest that spawned anyways...

2 people with 3 hero = win

Funny thing is how the people whining for H/H parties fit the exact profile of the PUGers they hate. Oh noes, people I play with want to play their builds and play their way!

What's it your doing, selflessly sacrificing your way of playing to make it easier for Dunkoro?


You want your money back because you can't play 3 areas that you probably didn't even know existed when the game was released? Pathetic. Just pathetic.

Another point allowing heroes in these areas that would be a positive affect is that say you have a group of 6 or 7 and have been waiting for that one nuker or bipper to show up, oh wow look at that sousuke and livia would love to come and we dont have to wait for 45 minutes to get someone, yessss.

How I currently play UW and Fow:

1) With a full team of guildies with a few heroes if we dont have enough players
2) Solo UW with my Elly
3) Duo FoW with my monk and tahlkora or a guildie.

Puggers fail. The reasons have been mentioned again and again. Its all well and great that two players and 6 heroes can complete Fow + UW (I have done fow at least with 2 ppl), but one person should be able to do it if they choose.

Anyway, forget asking to use henchmen, keep asking for 7 heroes instead. We will get them one day

UW with two-man six heroes works pretty well too - nearly finished it using a BP build myself, although I think some dryders killed a quest objective at the end.

Best option right now, short of actual guildies, is to find someone you can actually deal with in a group and each take three heroes. (I know, make friends, shock horror) One good player is easier to find than seven.

/signed

/agree pugs = failcake
/agree limitations on how I choose to play this game = reasons to not play this game

sorry to say it but heros are allowed into those areas

I'd bet players would be more open to the idea of pugs if competent players weren't some rare and unique snowflake. Even within guilds 98.96% of the people you'll find have no idea what the hell they're doing.

That is and always will be the downside of MMORPGs. Your enjoyment of group content only goes as far as the people you play with.

The joys of playing a free MMO.

Yes... well I'll let you draw your own conclusion from that.

Other than that, come on, there must be one person you like enough to spend the whole of THREE HOURS of your life with clearing UW for HoM thing? I mean, pugs suck, sure, but there's like this system called guilds, and this even cooler system called friends...

Also - not to put too fine a point on it seeing as I apparently "like to refer to *something*" while posting about Guild Wars - certain things in life are also better enjoyed with friends than alone.

Not necesarily. Pretty much every MMORPG, free or otherwise is plagued by a massive influx of player idiocy.

A-Net.... just give the henchies UW/FOW access already.... and get rid of the 1plat fee for entry...

-_-;

Not sure. I've ran into far more idiots/assholes in GW than any other game I've ever played.