A discussion on 4 heros - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

23 Oct 2007 at 14:18 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I actually probably wouldn't be suprised if they never noticed...

Honestly, it's kind of silly to say that most people wouldn't notice a feature of the game if they don't actively use it.

For example, I know that there is an option to watch GvG and tournaments, although I have never done it (nor would ever have the incentive to do so).

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

23 Oct 2007 at 14:36 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

As it is, heroes are vastly superior to henchmen. Players without heroes are already vastly handicapped. Heroes also make most of Prophesies such a joke. I believe Anet realised this disparity, and is probably wise not to widen it anymore.

You say that like a group of 8 players cant already do that. A group of players can already go in with a build and smash everything with ease, its not the heroes that make proph easy. Its the new skills. Because its not like people couldnt take 8 players when only proph was out right?

So if people who team can and always have been able to take a fully custom team build why shouldnt solo players be able to?

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

23 Oct 2007 at 14:54 - 43

Meh.

I want 7 Heroes.
Heck... I want 11 Heroes for the likes of The Deep too!

And I'm not going to justify it because it has all been said before and everyone is sick of it.... and plus it isn't going to happen.
But I still want it.

VanDamselx

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Buffalo, NY

[TTBH]

23 Oct 2007 at 15:05 - 44

3 heroes is more than sufficient. If I'm not playing with a friend of mine, I fill it up with henchmen. I have found that henchmen fill that void quite effectively, if I know what I'm doing.

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

23 Oct 2007 at 15:13 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by booooYA

3 heroes is more than sufficient. If I'm not playing with a friend of mine, I fill it up with henchmen. I have found that henchmen fill that void quite effectively, if I know what I'm doing.

However henchmen mean that a solo player is currently at a huge disadvantage.

Most dont even have 8 skills...
The builds are ok to godawful (Even when they are ok 1 set build for the whole game just doesnt work)

You are then forced into forming the rest of the team build into patching up what they fail to do. For example some of the monks dont have any condition removal. So even if I take hench monks I need to fit a condition removal elsewhere in my build. This really adds to the limitation.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

23 Oct 2007 at 15:14 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Honestly, it's kind of silly to say that most people wouldn't notice a feature of the game if they don't actively use it.

How many people knew about Party Search after it had been implemented?

But nonetheless, that's not my point. My point is that no one here has a real good argument or defense for/against more heroes, and we have no idea what the effects will be if more were implemented.

VanDamselx

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Buffalo, NY

[TTBH]

23 Oct 2007 at 15:18 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

However henchmen mean that a solo player is currently at a huge disadvantage.

Most dont even have 8 skills...
The builds are ok to godawful (Even when they are ok 1 set build for the whole game just doesnt work)

You are then forced into forming the rest of the team build into patching up what they fail to do. For example some of the monks dont have any condition removal. So even if I take hench monks I need to fit a condition removal elsewhere in my build. This really adds to the limitation.

Disadvantage? Hardly. I can finish some dungeons in the same time it takes 2 people with heroes or a good group of 8 people. I never find myself filling voids, I know which combinations work well to finish my task.

If anything 3 heroes makes the game more balanced. PvE is easy enough, 7 heroes might as well come with a skill that annihilates the entire explorable area you come into.

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

23 Oct 2007 at 15:24 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by booooYA

If anything 3 heroes makes the game more balanced. PvE is easy enough, 7 heroes might as well come with a skill that annihilates the entire explorable area you come into.

Admittedly.... given that you only have 2 or 3 hero representatives of any given class in the game, and sometimes you might want more, there is cause to bring Henchies instead.

I just wish GW:EN had at least one Paragon henchie.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

23 Oct 2007 at 15:25 - 49

My argument is pretty simple, more heroes equals more fun to me. I'm used to play with my gamebuddy and six heroes. Sometimes when he's at work, I just log on with his account on my spare computer and set up the team build and log his character off. I can experiment freely with teambuilds and that's awesome.

I speak for myself only but playing with h/h doesn't satisfy me as much as playing with 6 heroes, point. And the reason to play this wonderful game is to have fun.

So 4 heroes or 7, I welcome them all.

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

23 Oct 2007 at 15:30 - 50

I really must disagree with you booooYA, there is no way the AI hench or hero can compare to a decent player.

Heroes stand in AoE
Heroes dont kite
Heroes waste interrupts on skills like flare then let MS cast
Heroes will waste skills like MS when there is only 1 thing left alive
Heroes cant combo skills
Heroes cant automatically maintain enchantments
Heroes cant use some skills properly (Skills with conditions such as ZB, WoH, SoS etc)
Heroes cant use pve skills
Heroes dont remove the more powerful hexes and conditions first, they will happily remove bleeding from a backline while a frontline is blind.

Now im not saying you cant complete the game with h/h, I have completed all 3 campaigns and GW:EN with h/h. That doesnt change the fact that there is still a disadvantage.

However when you enter HM you start to see it. That charge warrior really starts to become a huge disadvantage. Having to take an extra monk just because you want some condition removal. Taking an SS warder even though you really want a BS. Having monks blow their energy in seconds because they dont know how to use ZB and then having no form of energy management at all.

The list of reasons goes on.

VanDamselx

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Buffalo, NY

[TTBH]

23 Oct 2007 at 15:40 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

I really must disagree with you booooYA, there is no way the AI hench or hero can compare to a decent player.

Heroes stand in AoE
Heroes dont kite
Heroes waste interrupts on skills like flare then let MS cast
Heroes will waste skills like MS when there is only 1 thing left alive
Heroes cant combo skills
Heroes cant automatically maintain enchantments
Heroes cant use some skills properly (Skills with conditions such as ZB, WoH, SoS etc)
Heroes cant use pve skills
Heroes dont remove the more powerful hexes and conditions first, they will happily remove bleeding from a backline while a frontline is blind.

Now im not saying you cant complete the game with h/h, I have completed all 3 campaigns and GW:EN with h/h. That doesnt change the fact that there is still a disadvantage.

However when you enter HM you start to see it. That charge warrior really starts to become a huge disadvantage. Having to take an extra monk just because you want some condition removal. Taking an SS warder even though you really want a BS. Having monks blow their energy in seconds because they dont know how to use ZB and then having no form of energy management at all.

The list of reasons goes on.

Now im not saying you cant complete the game with h/h, I have completed all 3 campaigns and GW:EN with h/h. That doesnt change the fact that there is still a disadvantage.

However when you enter HM you start to see it. That charge warrior really starts to become a huge disadvantage. Having to take an extra monk just because you want some condition removal. Taking an SS warder even though you really want a BS. Having monks blow their energy in seconds because they dont know how to use ZB and then having no form of energy management at all.

The list of reasons goes on.[/QUOTE]

Obviously that's your opinion. I roll as a monk so the monking issue doesn't bother me at all.

I'm certainly not comparing the AI with real players. Heroes and henchmen were meant to be a substitute for real people and that's exactly what they are. I'm not by any means saying they're equivalent, but if you can't find a monk and you just want to get rolling, you add a hero. Any competent player should not have a problem rolling with henchmen/heroes.

You may see a disadvantage, I do not. As I said previously, 7 heroes would make PvE even easier than it already is. You're arguing why there should be 7 heroes but then you're saying why they suck. Obviously the reason you stated above is why you have to micromanage some heroes, it would be hell to micromanage 7 of them and worry about your own bar at the same time.

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

23 Oct 2007 at 15:48 - 52

So your saying if you dont want to pug, you make do with something that you agree is weaker?

7 heroes would make pve easier than 3 heroes and 4 henchmen deffinately. Wouldnt make it easier than 7 other players however.

And going beyond that it limits the builds a solo player can use.
What if I want 8 specific builds? What about any full custom team build?

I cant.

Now with a team of players you can do that, so why cant the solo player?

And as for arguing for them then stating why they suck. Yeah they do, but they are so much better than henchmen. Thats the key point.

VanDamselx

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Buffalo, NY

[TTBH]

23 Oct 2007 at 19:35 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

So your saying if you dont want to pug, you make do with something that you agree is weaker?

7 heroes would make pve easier than 3 heroes and 4 henchmen deffinately. Wouldnt make it easier than 7 other players however.

And going beyond that it limits the builds a solo player can use.
What if I want 8 specific builds? What about any full custom team build?

I cant.

Now with a team of players you can do that, so why cant the solo player?

And as for arguing for them then stating why they suck. Yeah they do, but they are so much better than henchmen. Thats the key point.

Yes, that's precisely what I'm saying. Henchmen and heroes were never intended to directly replace humans as they have, but rather be a last resort type of thing.

It certainly would make things easier than having 7 people because at least your heroes will abide to what builds you'd like it to use. When I roll with a friend and we use all our heroes, it is incredibly easy to vanquish even the toughest areas. When my friend isn't available, I make do with henchmen and there is no issue. Having anymore than 3 heroes would make PvE even a larger joke than it already is because people bitch about "too hard" it is (THK, anyone?).

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

23 Oct 2007 at 20:11 - 54

I've done just fine with 3 heroes and 4 henchies all throughout all the chapters. There is no NEED for 4 more heroes. Besides you want a reason why? Because dressing out heroes is EXPENSIVE and if you gave people more heroes then the next crowd to whine would be those that can't afford to dress the extra dolls to keep up with the jone's. So, therefore there is the reason there should be no more heroes, it's too expensive and casual players can't afford the extra cost to dress and outfit them. I rest my case your honor, what's that you say? We win? Case dismissed!! Great thank you your honor.

elektra_lucia

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2006

England

Leteci is [sexy]

Mo/

23 Oct 2007 at 20:38 - 55

Yes, I think you should be allowed 7 heroes but I think it's ABSOLUTELY annoying that for infusers who use number pad, hero doesn't count? So, if I press 1 to select self, 2 to select next player down (a hero) it actually goes to a person and not the hero? That annoys me... Perhaps they have changed it.

If anyone here agrees with that let me know, unless it's been changed of course. I just would like that fixed really badly, lol.

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

23 Oct 2007 at 21:06 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by booooYA

Yes, that's precisely what I'm saying. Henchmen and heroes were never intended to directly replace humans as they have, but rather be a last resort type of thing.

Actually yes they are. GW has always been advertised as a game you can play in a team or go with AI.

And while you currently can there is a huge disadvantage to playing solo. 7 heroes makes the game no easier than 8 players so I cant really see that as a valid reason against them.

As for the cost Red Sonya, considering they come with armour all you need to supply is runes and weapons. Well you have crafter and collector weapons so the cost there is minimal and runes are fairly cheap as well.

1 run through a campaign is more than enough to cover all the costs.

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

23 Oct 2007 at 21:26 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

How many people knew about Party Search after it had been implemented?

Within 1-2 days after it was implemented? Very few.

Within a couple of weeks after it was implemented? Almost everyone.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

23 Oct 2007 at 21:45 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Within 1-2 days after it was implemented? Very few.

Within a couple of weeks after it was implemented? Almost everyone.

Yeah after they had to pretty much enforce it ("wts xxx pm (Party Search)", "LFG for Mission (Party Search)")

See? Just like the heroes argument. Neither of us have evidence enough to support our claim. That, or we say we have evidence that contradicts one another. Going no where but downhill.

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

23 Oct 2007 at 21:55 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Neither of us have evidence enough to support our claim. That, or we say we have evidence that contradicts one another. Going no where but downhill.

Absolutely. IMO, it's always dangerous to make changes in a black box when you really don't know what the impact could be to the game, positive or negative.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

24 Oct 2007 at 00:19 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Absolutely. IMO, it's always dangerous to make changes in a black box when you really don't know what the impact could be to the game, positive or negative.

Just gonna quote you and agree some more.

That's really the only logical point why ANet won't do this, and it's taken a while for me to notice. Sure, it'd be real fun to have 7 heroes, but I don't know how bad/good the repercussions/benefits will be.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

24 Oct 2007 at 00:46 - 61

no one gives a boo hoo about having to equip and rune heroes. I have nifty and expensive greens on all my NF heros and the bonus weps on my gwen ones untill i get green drops for them. bonus weapons are great for equipping heroes untill you get green ones. most of my heroes have major vigors equipped and I just salvage and reuse them as needed. And people constantly saying henchmen are fine turn on hard mode. If you still enjoy playing the game get some help.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

24 Oct 2007 at 00:55 - 62

Also, I would personaly like to challenge myself by making a full group of heroes using campain only skills. Would be cool going through NF with just proph skills for the fun of it to see if I can succeed or not.

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

24 Oct 2007 at 00:57 - 63

They'll probably do it in the year long interim before GW2...just to keep things interesting/let people actually complete some of the monuments with fewer and fewer groups around.

VanDamselx

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Buffalo, NY

[TTBH]

24 Oct 2007 at 03:38 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Actually yes they are. GW has always been advertised as a game you can play in a team or go with AI.

And while you currently can there is a huge disadvantage to playing solo. 7 heroes makes the game no easier than 8 players so I cant really see that as a valid reason against them.

As for the cost Red Sonya, considering they come with armour all you need to supply is runes and weapons. Well you have crafter and collector weapons so the cost there is minimal and runes are fairly cheap as well.

1 run through a campaign is more than enough to cover all the costs.

I don't get this disadvantage, honestly there isn't one. As I told you, I can do areas in hard mode and in normal mode with ease using h/h. I would consider it a disadvantage if it was impossible or put you at bad odds to complete it, but it's neither at all.

As I said, IMO, I think it would be easier to run 7 heroes than have a team full of 8 people. While hero AI may be sub-par to some people in this game, it is certainly more superior than some of the people I have PuG-ed with in the past which is why I would think it would be sort of imbalanced.

Sparks Dawnbringer

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Los Angeles

none

E/Mo

24 Oct 2007 at 10:24 - 65

Does it really matter? Does it really change the world how many heros I use. Do you really want me so badly on your pug. For crying out loud it's a big game let us play the way we want. Let us use heros, henchies, people, whatever we are comfortable with it's just a game.

doinchi

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Singapore

Sheperd of Souls

W/Mo

24 Oct 2007 at 11:20 - 66

I think they only allowed us to use 3 heros at one time because they did not want players to be able to, without too much difficulty, finish the game without any other human players. With 3 heros each, at least 2 players are needed to fill a 8 person party.

However, when GW2 comes out, I think it would be a good idea to allo 7 heros then, since most players would have moved on to GW2.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

24 Oct 2007 at 13:24 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

My Ranger has completed every campaign, and EotN, and doesn't have a single maxed title (although it's 1 off protector of elona). That is a very stupid assumption to make.

I only just read this response.

So why exactly would you want to chase Guardian and Vanquisher titles before you have finished protector and another few easy ones?

I still think +1 hero in PVE per Koabd title rank would be sweet. It gives you something to work for as well rather then making it easilly accessible to people that dont actually require them (For HM).

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

24 Oct 2007 at 19:29 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by booooYA

I don't get this disadvantage, honestly there isn't one. As I told you, I can do areas in hard mode and in normal mode with ease using h/h. I would consider it a disadvantage if it was impossible or put you at bad odds to complete it, but it's neither at all.

Its a disadvantage compared to a team of 8 decent players. Is it possible to do it with h/h? Yes of course it is. But that doesnt change the fact the disadvantage is there.

Going beyond that as well it isnt just about the level of skill required to complete an area. Its things like being able to create your own team build as well. I would love to try out all sorts of builds that I cant because im unable to change hench bars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by booooYA

As I said, IMO, I think it would be easier to run 7 heroes than have a team full of 8 people. While hero AI may be sub-par to some people in this game, it is certainly more superior than some of the people I have PuG-ed with in the past which is why I would think it would be sort of imbalanced.

Oh I dont disagree it will be more powerful than some new or less skilled player. Because lets face it a monk with all warrior skills doesnt take much beating now does it?

However when you compare it to a decent pug or a guild team you can see where that huge disadvantage comes in. You cant really compare balance when you only compare something to the lowest skilled players in the game.

Heroes sit nicely in the middle, they are better than your average PuG player but worse than a decent player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bahvv

I still think +1 hero in PVE per Koabd title rank would be sweet. It gives you something to work for as well rather then making it easilly accessible to people that dont actually require them (For HM).

I dont think having it on a title like that (especially one that takes so long to get) would really work.

A lot of people who use heroes are casual players, they jump on for an hour or so and dont want to waste time forming a team of players. They just want to jump in and have fun. Now most casual players will not have many if any max titles. The few skill based ones perhaps but the grind titles will for the most part be ignored.

Now obviousely not everyone who uses heroes fall into that category but to allow 1 group to have extra heroes but not another seems rather silly.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

24 Oct 2007 at 20:49 - 69

Yes but NM is easy enough with 3 heroes and henchmen. Its a walk in the park. I dont think casual players will be playing HM anyway so really wouldnt have much need for extra heroes. Extra heroes are really only required when Vanquishing and doing Guardian, which I'm sure most players would be doing after Protector and skill hunter. Its is exceptionally easy to obtain PKM prior to actually embarking on HM for the reason of obtaining titles, and if you actually dont already have PKM before starting the HM titles, theres much easier and faster things you can be doing first.

While I would love 7 heroes, I would also love it to be a prestige for those that want/need it to work for it, only to remove the use of them in NM.

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

24 Oct 2007 at 20:59 - 70

I agree NM is very easy. Im a casual players and I would love to do HM.

But when im forced into taking chars without 8 skills and useless bars it really causes problems.

What you need to remember is a casual player doesnt mean a bad player. They just dont have the same time to dedicate (Or just dont want to) as a hardcore player.

Also I dont want to do HM for titles. I dont care about titles. I want to have fun playing the game. I find NM to easy to be really fun (although I often do missions with 6/8 to try and make it a bit more of a challenge), HM requiring a solid team just doesnt go well because no matter which 3 positions in the team you choose to use heroes for, the henchies cant cut the rest. That means you have to work your team around the henchies weaknesses rather than actually taking a build you would like to use.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

24 Oct 2007 at 21:27 - 71

Yea the henchie skill bars are a pain. Scrap the Koabd title Idea, I just like it since im already on 17 maxed XD.

We should just be allowed to use all heroes instead of hench, or even just to customise the henchmen we use but with their attributes remaining unchangeable. Gehraz and Odura in NF dont even have an elite.

Really, the following skillbar is just pitiful.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Odurra

Just adding in Energy burn and Energy surge would make her 100x more useful (Not that I would use those skills, but they would be great on a henchmen for use in all areas for the damage)

Crom The Pale

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

Ageis Ascending

W/

25 Oct 2007 at 00:58 - 72

It's not completely about what can and can not be done with hench or in a pug.

A fair bit of this is about how much fun it would be.

Maybe for some of us using a full team of Hero, that we can equip to run the exact builds we wish right down to thier runes and weapons, would be a tremendous amount of fun.

Those in large active guilds can have little idea of what its like to wish to put together a party comprised of 8 players all using complimenting builds but be denied the chance of this ever happening because we are forced to use hench or beg other people in a pug to use the builds we want them to.

How many times have you joined a pug and said, so tell me exactly what skills to bring, how to set my attributes and where and when you want me to use them????

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

25 Oct 2007 at 03:19 - 73

Allow 7 heroes, we need to be an even more antisocial online gaming community. I feel this will benefit new players by making them feel alienated and alone when they start playing. It does wonders for learning to play.

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

25 Oct 2007 at 04:39 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Allow 7 heroes, we need to be an even more antisocial online gaming community. I feel this will benefit new players by making them feel alienated and alone when they start playing. It does wonders for learning to play.

People already use h/h. Its not like this will stop those who enjoy pugging teaming up with others who also enjoy pugging.

Besides, GW is advertised as a game you can play with AI. So a lot of these new players will have purchased it for that point, I know thats why I bought the game.

And again those new players who purchased it to play with others can still go ahead and do that.

If you removed h/h for example do you think you would get more people pugging? I highly doubt it, many players would simply quit. A lot of people cant or dont want to pug. At the end of the day nothing will change that.

TheLichMonky

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Does it matter?

Im to good for guilds

25 Oct 2007 at 06:33 - 75

Its really simple. Allow 7 heroes to be used, those who want them, use them. Those who dont keep spamming for a pug. When I play and dont want to pug, I grab 3 heroes and 4 henchies. GG

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

25 Oct 2007 at 07:36 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

People already use h/h. Its not like this will stop those who enjoy pugging teaming up with others who also enjoy pugging.

Besides, GW is advertised as a game you can play with AI. So a lot of these new players will have purchased it for that point, I know thats why I bought the game.

And again those new players who purchased it to play with others can still go ahead and do that.

If you removed h/h for example do you think you would get more people pugging? I highly doubt it, many players would simply quit. A lot of people cant or dont want to pug. At the end of the day nothing will change that.

There is AI in guild wars? Huh... I never noticed it before, I should really read the manual at some point.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

25 Oct 2007 at 09:03 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Allow 7 heroes, we need to be an even more antisocial online gaming community. I feel this will benefit new players by making them feel alienated and alone when they start playing. It does wonders for learning to play.

I donate money to Amnesty International.
That's my charity work of choice.

the_jos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Hard Mode Legion [HML]

N/

25 Oct 2007 at 09:22 - 78

Quote:

We should just be allowed to use all heroes instead of hench, or even just to customise the henchmen we use but with their attributes remaining unchangeable. Really, the following skillbar is just pitiful.

I agree that some Hard Mode hench have bad skillbars.
On Normal Mode, the skillbar does matter less, it has always been possible to do everything on NM with hench (and since NF heroes made life easier).

Now if the only problem why people want more heroes is the bad skillbars in Hard Mode, I think it would be good to determine what the bad bars are, why they are bad considering the available pool of hench and how they can be improved with core and campaign specific skills.

For example, the main problem on prophecies hench is the lack of defense.
The prot monk hench bar is expensive and lacks that one spammable, cheap spell (RoF) and at the same time there are no such things as wards, traps and shouts (watch yourself) on the hench.
Meaning you almost need a third monk or specialized defense setup on non-monk because the team does not have other means of defense.

Adding WY and RoF would make a huge difference without changing the game too much, I think.

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

25 Oct 2007 at 09:32 - 79

The problem with just changing the hench bars is they still remain fixed.

No matter if they are running a great build, thats all they will ever run. So again that forces you to work around them, as well as some builds just not working well in certain areas.

Unless they could be completely customized it wouldnt solve that problem. Adding that means you also need to be able to change weapons and attributes. And you just ended up with 4 more heroes

Also doesnt help with those that would love to create full team builds.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

25 Oct 2007 at 10:49 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

There is AI in guild wars? Huh... I never noticed it before, I should really read the manual at some point.

You don't need to read the manual, look around in towns and see a majority use h/h. People prefer playing with the AI, says enough about pugs. Furthermore, pugging has been dead for a long time now and has no real value anymore in the 4-7 heroes debate. It's about more fun now.

I made a suggestion Anet should host a pug server just like we have an international district. So people like you can socialise with like-minded people and find eachother easely. Think they didn't even consider it just because the majority doesn't pug anymore. But I would be for it even though I don't pug.