Want to know a little more about the aborted GW: Utopia? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

TremorCrst

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2007

24 Oct 2007 at 08:31 - 1

At the conceptart.org forums it was recently opened a thread regarding GW:EN art (it's somewhat usual, and follows the ones, from previous years, dedicated to GW:Factions and Nightfall - more on that in the Nolani Arts section): http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=108591

What's more interesting in this one is that one of the Anet artists posted this (page 5):
"I just found these extras and wanted to make sure it was okay to post. These are from Utopia, the game that never was. ;} Oh, and below you might recognize the origins of the Mesmer Norn armor designs..."

I found it interesting that, infering from the concept arts, Utopia was after all an expansion for regular GW (at least it's what I think, given that they were developing more armors for existing classes/characters) AND that the setting was pre-columbian mesoamerican (mayan, aztec...).

So many of the rumors we heard months and months ago were indeed right, and the fact that Anet specified that Utopia "was used as a project name for an unannounced project, but we do not intend to use it for a product name" (http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_bl...stnews;title;4) didn't mean they had a "special" project... it meant that they just decided that Chapter 4 was to be canned xD

Don't know if you find it interesting, I did and wanted to share

Sleeper Service

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

CULT

24 Oct 2007 at 08:50 - 2

what i find disgraceful is that when chapter 1 came out we were told that there would be 2 new chapters per year at about what ...45 euros? per pop.
This would have resulted in the player (if they bought all the chapters) spending about as much as they would have for a "regular" MMO but in a different way.

Then we were told that this model was working well, ie: they were making a profit. So we were happy because we could expect more of the same for years to come.

WTH happened? now all we get is the standard "maybe in GW2" response or "our whole art team has moved to GW2 (so don't expect anything new)" etc.

Bale_Shadowscar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Manchester, England

New Dragons [NDR]

24 Oct 2007 at 09:04 - 3

Very cool thread. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Looks like at least some of utopia would have been set in a civilized, high class area (Like Vabbi), based on the Mesmer's dress.

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

24 Oct 2007 at 09:09 - 4

Sounds like all that got squished into the Asura section of GW:EN.

Komes I

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

Somewhere over the rainbow... what the hell?!

[DLOT]

R/

24 Oct 2007 at 09:47 - 5

Wow... I really like the way those guys make evrything in their art so... epic! I really can hear music and can picture a whole scene of what is happening in those pictures.

And I hope some stuff that haven't been put in the game already will be in GW2. Oh man, ANet has best concept artist ever!

Symeon

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

24 Oct 2007 at 10:12 - 6

Seems they were working on a sort of 'New World' chapter. There are pictures of Meso-American cities, temples, totem poles, and an arena with spectators.

Judging by the last five pictures in this post, they may have had a buccaneer/swashbuckler class planned... and possibly some sort of Aztec shaman?

Surena

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

N/Me

24 Oct 2007 at 10:20 - 7

Do you notice how cartoonish (appealing to younger players) GW looks compared to the artwork? Man, I'd pay the double price for a "mature" look (for GW2 now) which probably won't happen.

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

24 Oct 2007 at 11:51 - 8

Wow. Their concept art is always so amazing... but it nevers gets put into the game as amazing. I bought the CE NF for example and like... thoughtgasmed in the car on the way home. I installed it, beat it in a week or so, and was not really impressed at all.

Bankai

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Bubblegum Dragons

Mo/E

24 Oct 2007 at 12:01 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

what i find disgraceful is that when chapter 1 came out we were told that there would be 2 new chapters per year at about what ...45 euros? per pop.
This would have resulted in the player (if they bought all the chapters) spending about as much as they would have for a "regular" MMO but in a different way.

Then we were told that this model was working well, ie: they were making a profit. So we were happy because we could expect more of the same for years to come.

WTH happened? now all we get is the standard "maybe in GW2" response or "our whole art team has moved to GW2 (so don't expect anything new)" etc.

While they were making profit, the quality of the game was going downhill. People were being spread over a huge areas, making it a neccessity to use heroes and henchies or guilds, PvP got gimped every chapter, etc. If they had continued the chapter plan, in 2 years we would have 14 classes, everyone who even thought of doing something high-end had to have all chapters, there would be a max of 100 people in hubs like LA and Kamadan, and PvP would be severely imbalanced.

=HT=Ingram

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Anchorage Alaska

Haz Team [HT]

R/W

24 Oct 2007 at 12:54 - 10

yea I for one was really really sad to see utopia canceled, I just thought the concept and designs they had in store for it was going to be amazing... A lot of it came into GWEN expansion. But others of it just didn't make it... With GW2 now coming we can expect a significant engine change from the ground up... so that's good. And the story with the rising of Orr and the Dragons awakening... that's going to be HUGE. But ultimately I think that eventually GW1 will just be left in the dust, and eventually be taken offline in favor of GW2 expansions...

The Ideal would be to use GW1 to build lore, for expansion in GW2.. The Biannual approach. GW1 expansion (to build lore for GW2) ; GW2 live, GW1 expansion (to build lore for GW2 EXP), GW2 Expansion, and so forth... But this model does not seem like it will be very popular with Anet for some reason... Not sure why...

I really hope we get the opportunity some day to see the new world concept that utopia was going to bring to it... The Aztecs are a really cool basis for development. it would be nice to see a few expansions down the line in GW2.

thezed

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

Iowa, USA

HoTR

24 Oct 2007 at 13:28 - 11

I to was very disapointed to see the 2 chapter/year model go away. To me, that model felt like I was playing a really good series of fantasy novels, with my character as the lead. And with the revelation the Nightfall would tie up a triliogy it felt even better.

But I fully understand why they ended that model. Both for the balance issues mentioned by previous posts and for technical reasons. The game industry has been moving by HUGE leaps, and the current GW1 engine just cant handle what Anet wants to do anymore.

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

24 Oct 2007 at 13:33 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

what i find disgraceful is that when chapter 1 came out we were told that there would be 2 new chapters per year at about what ...45 euros? per pop.

They said no such thing.

The Shelf

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2007

R/Me

24 Oct 2007 at 13:38 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

They said no such thing.

Not sure about the price, but they did say there would be a new chapter once every six months.

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

24 Oct 2007 at 13:42 - 14

Uhh, I want this monk armor...like bad.... for my male monk Sojar... omg.... /drool

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

24 Oct 2007 at 13:50 - 15

You can find some of these illustrations in the (US) PC Gamer. I remember in particular two that looked very much like Inca/South America (one is at the end of post #26 in the conceptart thread). And in one you'd see a guy on top of a high tower apparently moving with his hands a huge metalic round piece above him (as if the thing was floating), I think the text mentioned it was used as a light foci between the different towers.

Amazing art, for an amazing game! This artistic dimension to the game was one of the reason that brought me into it. You wish there would be more of it (but there's so much that graphic designers and implementers can do!). Thanks for sharing TremorCrst!

Sleeper Service

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

CULT

24 Oct 2007 at 14:42 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

While they were making profit, the quality of the game was going downhill. People were being spread over a huge areas, making it a neccessity to use heroes and henchies or guilds, PvP got gimped every chapter, etc. If they had continued the chapter plan, in 2 years we would have 14 classes, everyone who even thought of doing something high-end had to have all chapters, there would be a max of 100 people in hubs like LA and Kamadan, and PvP would be severely imbalanced.

yes we can see that, but if ONLY Anet had looked a little closer at games that have managed to keep on rolling decades after their release they could have seen how to manage avoiding that.

Anyways, too late for that now. Im guessing that a lot of the "failed" concepts will come out in the form of Mission Packs between now and GW2.

It could have been truly awesome, it came out ok.

WinterSnowblind

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

24 Oct 2007 at 15:03 - 17

Wow. Now this is what the Warrior Monument armour should have looked like.

yazhgar

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2007

Finland

R/

24 Oct 2007 at 15:18 - 18

To me snakes wouldnt be fitting for monuement armor, maybe for a naga armor.

also from my perspective theres no need for update gfx engine: 3.0shaders, dx10 and stuff... It looks good enough without those, just give me a offline store around here where I live which sells factions. (4shops= every other chapter [including Proph+EoTN pack] but no factions)

Neriandal Freit

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Spiral of The Red Rose, Kryta (Columbus, IN)

Heros of Titans Realm [HotR]

E/

24 Oct 2007 at 15:29 - 19

I really think a lot of this should be implemented for us in around one years of time.

I don't say that sort of thing very often, knowing fair well how many ANet folk are working on Gw2 at this time, but honestly this (for example) armor concept is gorgeous.

I mean, I would honestly settle to pay for this through the online store again. I'd be content in a year to pay 30.00+ (no more than 45.00) for a small expansion once more.

gene terrodon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Maryland/DC Area

Farmers Unite [FU]

W/

24 Oct 2007 at 15:38 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

what i find disgraceful is that when chapter 1 came out we were told that there would be 2 new chapters per year at about what ...45 euros? per pop.
This would have resulted in the player (if they bought all the chapters) spending about as much as they would have for a "regular" MMO but in a different way.

Then we were told that this model was working well, ie: they were making a profit. So we were happy because we could expect more of the same for years to come.

WTH happened? now all we get is the standard "maybe in GW2" response or "our whole art team has moved to GW2 (so don't expect anything new)" etc.

The change wasn't due to a failed business model, but, in Anet's words, a desire to make changes that the community requested that the original engine could not produce.

In short, to put all of the things we asked in an expansion would have caused them to have to radically change the existing game.
Therefore, instead of changing an existing model, they decided to start from scratch.

Two April Mornings

No Luck No Time No Money

Join Date: Nov 2005

Amherst College, MA

Scars Meadows [SMS]

Me/

24 Oct 2007 at 16:27 - 21

I love how 90% of that concept art is mesoamerican themed.

Sleeper Service

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

CULT

24 Oct 2007 at 16:50 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by gene terrodon

The change wasn't due to a failed business model, but, in Anet's words, a desire to make changes that the community requested that the original engine could not produce.

In short, to put all of the things we asked in an expansion would have caused them to have to radically change the existing game.
Therefore, instead of changing an existing model, they decided to start from scratch.

that is indeed what they said...but it translates (or i perceive it) as:

"more people are playing WoW, we need a WoWKiller"

"can't make WoW with GW engine"

"lets make GW2 then"

I dont want to play WoW, i want GW.
The main thing thats Anet is going to carry over is the GW1 business/update model, and thats great but...it could have worked with GW1.

Don't want get into an argument here. In fact i'm way off topic anyways.

yeah WinterSnowblind i thought the same regarding the armour...

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

24 Oct 2007 at 17:02 - 23

Meh.

I'm not too interested in a mesoamerican theme so Utopia getting cancelled doesn't mean that much to me.

Trub

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Sitting in the guildhall, watching the wallows frolic.

Trinity of the ascended [SMS]+[Koss]+[TAM]=[ToA]

24 Oct 2007 at 17:08 - 24

It's beautiful!
*Crosses fingers*
Maybe they will carry some of this over into GW2...
Or even better...surprise us all with just 1 more true expansion before the end of GW1 as we know it?
_______________
PvE Helpul Hint #1298: Vekk just isn't right in the head. Trust me on this one.

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

24 Oct 2007 at 17:11 - 25

Amazing art, once again the gw graphics team sucks compared to the concept artists. From what I see, Utopia was going to be meseoamerican with a viking influence (norns) perhaps as invaders to recreate something like "The Pathfinder" anyone see that or read it? Amazing golems. http://dougbot.com/forum/GWXPostUno018.jpg

What assassin armor should've been

Achilles Antony

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

Hangar 18

24 Oct 2007 at 17:43 - 26

Yep, I'd definitely get something like that ^ for my assassin... and the pirate armor for my ranger, for sure. He's always looked like a pirate to me, only problem is his armor was never piratey enough. Too bad we'll never see those armors... in GW1 anyway.

Mr. G

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

S. Wales

Mo/Me

24 Oct 2007 at 18:37 - 27

well the silver eagle armor makes MUCH more sense now

Onarik Amrak

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2007

Astral Revenants

P/W

24 Oct 2007 at 19:09 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Amazing art, once again the gw graphics team sucks compared to the concept artists. From what I see, Utopia was going to be meseoamerican with a viking influence (norns) perhaps as invaders to recreate something like "The Pathfinder" anyone see that or read it? Amazing golems. http://dougbot.com/forum/GWXPostUno018.jpg

What assassin armor should've been

I think they're supposed to be the Undead Corsairs.

Shiishii Momo

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

I need a guild, R5 KOBD

N/

24 Oct 2007 at 19:25 - 29

Don't know if anyone else caught this, but while hovering my mouse over the picture below, the file name popped up for it, it is titled waterdragon. Possible that it's the water dragon that drags Orr up from the deep? The pic is from Jaime Jones, btw.

billypowergamer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

24 Oct 2007 at 19:31 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiishii Momo

Don't know if anyone else caught this, but while hovering my mouse over the picture below, the file name popped up for it, it is titled waterdragon. Possible that it's the water dragon that drags Orr up from the deep? The pic is from Jaime Jones, btw.

I noticed that too, one other thing I noticed is that it looks similar to a mountain located between Grothmar Wardowns and Dalada Uplands in EotN Link

Or I'm just imagining things

Mr. G

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

S. Wales

Mo/Me

24 Oct 2007 at 19:32 - 31

what id do for that char heh....

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

24 Oct 2007 at 19:38 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

insert awesome assa armor

Yep, that's how A's armor should look, not spikey crap like Ancient

Shiishii Momo

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

I need a guild, R5 KOBD

N/

24 Oct 2007 at 19:45 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by billypowergamer

I noticed that too, one other thing I noticed is that it looks similar to a mountain located between Grothmar Wardowns and Dalada Uplands in EotN Link

Or I'm just imagining things

Very similar indeed, but in terms of scale, look at how miniature the sailing ships seem to appear in relation to this thing.

aaje vhanli

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

24 Oct 2007 at 19:56 - 34

Everything I see in the concept art for "Utopia" is far greater than anything I've seen in GW:EN -- which is slightly disappointing. Love the Meso-American theme so I would have really liked to see them finish this campaign before changing to GW:EN and GW2.

Of course, now we can only hope to experience these things in a GW2 expansion or something sometime much farther down the road.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

24 Oct 2007 at 20:04 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by TremorCrst

I found it interesting that, infering from the concept arts, Utopia was after all an expansion for regular GW (at least it's what I think, given that they were developing more armors for existing classes/characters) AND that the setting was pre-columbian mesoamerican (mayan, aztec...).

We've known it was cancelled since it was in the GW:EN Player Guide. Not only do they show shots of Utopia and say "this was going to be in Utopia", they state that they cancelled it.

So it's been known for a while, yeah. But the art sure is cool.

dargon

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2005

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

R/

24 Oct 2007 at 20:15 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiishii Momo

Don't know if anyone else caught this, but while hovering my mouse over the picture below, the file name popped up for it, it is titled waterdragon. Possible that it's the water dragon that drags Orr up from the deep? The pic is from Jaime Jones, btw.

It is the island in Grothmar, check the concept art for the great wall, it's much larger than it actually appears in game, same for the dragon.

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

24 Oct 2007 at 20:55 - 37

so it seems they listen to their concept artists about as much as they listen to us......some of those shots and armor are beautiful! And just what did we get??? rehashed stuff....they could have finished more of that stuff off for the gw1 send off I think.

Buttermilk

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

Zealots of Shiverpeak [ZoS]

Mo/

24 Oct 2007 at 21:12 - 38

Uh, I SO want that Monk armour with the crystals on it.

Just replace the monument monk armour, I could have reskinned Judge's in TexMod anyway.

arcady

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

San Francisco native

Mo/P

24 Oct 2007 at 22:36 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bale_Shadowscar

Looks like at least some of utopia would have been set in a civilized, high class area (Like Vabbi), based on the Mesmer's dress.

That's an odd statement. Keep in mind that Tenochtitlan, founded in 1325, now known as Mexico City, was once one of the largest cities in the world, and is the city that first created the idea of a sewer system.

Also note that the Maya had more advanced Astronomy than we do today, and had the largest libraries or writings in the world before the Spanish destroyed them.

And that's just touching on two Meseoamerican civilizations. Popular thinking places the Inca alongside them. While technology wise that is correct, they were too far south to be Meseoamerican.

As a quarter Incan myself, this is the chapter I'm going to always wish GW had put out... The themes would have been really wonderful to explore.

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

24 Oct 2007 at 22:47 - 40

Lawl, they show the [SPOILER!!!]

Actual Great Destroyer, along with the one we get to pummel.