What is the point of farming?

I am responding to a statement made by TaCktiX in another thread, “Yes, in the effort to keep the ingame economy stable against gold farmers, ArenaNet has successfully made the game near pointless.”

What exactly is the pointlessness? Why does someone want to farm? Do they want to farm out of a need to watch things fall down and give the death moan? If so, can farming designated areas with no drops be established where the common to rare is the fantastic animation of each and every death? (Certain bosses even having Unique deaths, .)

Is the only reason to farm for the masses of wealth you obtain in order to “git moh jit”? If that is the case, how does this not create an imbalance against those players who want to play for the rewards in a normal non-grindfest way? (The grind is for reproduction boys, not a substitute for it.) This is not even following the idea that “casual” players are immediately put into that extreme disadvantage. Can farming be made possible without economic incentive and still be fun?

ANet has reduced the rewards of economic farming, but replaced them with 33 character based titular reasons to grind. And as far as I am concerned All PvP is grind-slaughter for Balth, Fame, etc.

I have 10 characters to develop because I want to play all of the game. Development of character is somehow seen as something you should only accomplish when you are ready to retire the character and give up the ghost. Being able to have the appearance that entertains you must be “Grinded”/ground for or “Dude, you just don’t miss the entire point.” Really? Why is the point finishing the game in armor you don’t want, with weapon skins you don’t want, just to grind another 10 months for the hopes that you can either afford 100k plus 50 ectoes for an item (or it will finally drop since most of what I want isn't something someone would bother to sell) to enrich a persona/character that has no story left to do?

I detest farming, even tho I do it occasionally. And it would be different if playing the game didn't require farming for Millions of gold to get skills, titles, armors, weapons, etc. This is the primary reason I am opposed to farming nerfs. All they do is increase the incentive for players to purchase gold from websites in order to finally get things done. (Why I have always proposed that farming nerfs make economic sense and increase supply to lower demand.) I'm both too stuborn and too cheap to buy the gold, as it is against my principle. But the rewards for play do not meet the needs of character aspirations/goals across so wide a field of play. Hence, it seems to me the only benefit or joy from farming is in being able to get everything (or close as possible). Why should one not be able to do this as a part of normal play?

So, my questions are:

1. If one wants to farm for the slaughter why does it have to have other rewards?
2. If one wants to farm for rewards, why does it have to be for monetary rewards instead of for the titles?
3. If one must farm for monetary rewards, why must it be allowed to injure the economy of the broader base of play?

Farming used to be a fun occasional pastime but now it is, indeed, pointless.

Whether you fit into this or not, MOST people feel something is 'worth more' to THEM when it is hard to get. This means it is either a very rare drop, and won't be seen by many people, and/or it is expensive.

If you want a Crystaline Sword with req 7, 15^50 20/20 and +30, its going to cost you a large sum of money, or take MONTHS, maybe YEARS to find/buy.

The reason is because people want what is valuable. They may want it because it allows them to show off their e-peen. They may want it because it is what fits their character. They may want it because other people want it.

It doesn't matter WHY someone wants things. But making ANYTHING accessible by ANYONE will ruin the economy. Next step is to make anything free, accessible by lvl 1 starters, and allowed in all games, regardless which ones you own.

If that happened, people would stop playing. Not everyone, but a LARGE amount of the players would stop.

I know you are not saying make anything available to anyone. But I see your logic leading in that direction. You want things simply because they fit the persona of your characters. I applaud that, and share that view. However, allowing you to gain weapons/armor with little to no work would throw the in game economy out the window. Doing that would make people quit, and the game would fail.

If you want items that are common and easy to get, be happy.
If you want items that are rare and hard to get, suck it up, and work for them.

OT but is there actually crystalines like that? I cant imagine how much that would be worth.

personally I farm so I can make money to buy things I want that I can't farm, whether that's a different drop, or prestige armor

or I directly farm something that I want, such as an r9 Col Scim

I don't farm any more to make straight plats, because I'm always within 10k of being capped at 2000k, in fact I wind up buying a lot of ectos because I'm making straight plats just with quest rewards and normal merching junk doing them

Farming in GW was a unique challenge. In a game where everything was balanced for teamplay, going and clearing an area or part of it truly solo was somewhat rewarding.

There was a very great appeal of finding newer and tougher zones to farm. Ractoh's legendary spider farm generated an epic thread, so did many others.

The drive behind finding farming spots was simply doing the impossible.

Ultimately, farming was a simple equation of maximizing profits over time.

Farming was/is for most part also very accessible. Need some cash, farm for an hour, get 10-20k.

Overall, it was emergent gameplay, a game within a game for some, money making method for others, something different.

When talking about rewards, solo farming did just that. It offered 8 times the reward of going in with a group. With loot scaling, this went away, and made solo farming somewhat pointless.

The point of farming it to get that item that you want and/or money. If you don't farm for that item you have to buy it from someone else who has it, which means you need money.

1) What's the point of killing something if there is no reward?
2) Titles can't buy you new armor, weapons, other items. Titles are only a way to get players playing the game and to keep their interest. Also, why would Bill Gates make an insane amount of money? I mean he has the title of "American entrepreneur, philanthropist and chairman of Microsoft" why have all that money? Shit.. he has 3 titles...
3) Any structured online rpg has to have a monetary structure of sorts of the game will fail. Hense why amet has reset the game economy at least once. (I remember ecto being 13K each)

I'm going to have to disagree with this. I believe loot scaling only scales junk whites and blues. I don't believe loot scaling effects golds, uniques, rare crafting mats (ectos, etc) and collector items, keys, dyes.

I'm happy with the current economy system I think. Everyone complains but I think this is the most fair it has ever been.

Magma Red, I hear what you are saying, but I doubt I will ever understand them. It is like the New York Times survey about 20 years ago when 80% of women surveyed said the first thing they consider before dating a man is his income. Which to me means 80% of relationships are prostitution.

You are right. I have two goals in game, being able to help friends, guildies, and stuck players through areas and being able to express my avatars persona. You are also right that I am not saying one shouldn't have to get to certain places in the game before one can do that. But I do not see why one should be months or years through with all other aspects of the game before one can do that (the current condition).

And why should people want things to be rare and valuable unless their intent is to impose power/leverage over and against other players for selfish benefit? And is it for this reason that things are done in a completely illogical way - Luxon and Kirsick weapon makers who do not make Jade and Amber weapons - but everything else in their life is made of Jade and Amber. (And no, I don't want those weapons. I find the implementation illogical and contraposited against the cultural description.)

What is amuzing is, wanting items that are common does not mean you can get them. I would like a certain shield, req 0, AL8 in Istan - no one is going to sell it, and it is not going to drop for me. But it is a common item. However, I can outfit ALL of Elona's, Cantha's, and Tyria's hammer warriors and mesmers with new equipment weekly (ok, I exagerated by 10%, ).

But what I get from you is that the only reason people farm is for economic power, and not because they want to farm. Farming for titles, for slaughter, etc. is not acceptable. Only the gold matters.

Jecht Scye, I agree that currently the economy is the most limiting it has ever been, and hence all new players and casual players from as far back as start are relatively equal. The claim that anyone can just grap 15k in an hour does not meet with my experience. If that were true, then I would have 10 maxed characters, all maxed heroes, a full guild hall, and still have maxed storage.

Farming used to be pointless in a non-item-intensive game like GW. Since GWEN, however, it is worthwhile to farm for gold, mats and skill points for consumables, particularly Celerities and Powerstones.

All games have some sort of grind and farming is used for many to obtain the gold, items, or titles they want. What exactly did you think you were going to get for answers ?

Killing Charr has its own special reward. No money needed.

I personally don't feel he needs all that money. It is in his case, just another title, and a way to buy the titles you mention. Money is too often equated to being a successful human being. Money has nothing to do with being successful as a human being, and titles like philanthropist can be achieved by any rich jerk that wants to buy it, just as well as by the rich and honestly compassionate. Since such titles increase your ability to make deals for more money, get government benefits, etc. having them may only be another aspect of doing more business.

I remember Sup of Absorb being 100k. I still don't know why as I do not see it as very useful in comparison to other runes. I have seen economic changes in GW. And I agree it is currently more limited than it has ever been. However, those who purchase gold and those who area grandfathered in (had maxed their accounts before exploits were taken away) are still part of an extreme elite who get anything they want at any time, while using that leverage to prevent new and casual players from having equitable access to the limited supply of goods. Because the ebayer's for gold exist all persons with money/maxed accounts are subject to suspicion as ebayers and the achievements of the honest overshadowed with doubt.

Guild Wars is not All games. It is Guild Wars, the better, the invisioned, the next generation, the superior, the "All Games wish they could be GW."

I understand farming for title rank, which IMO is excessive in point requirement. I understand having to look around for a little while to get something that you want or interests you - not months or years, or being so far out that there is no point in bothering. I looked at what Obsidian costs in time and resources 2 years ago, watched parties TPK on landing in UW and decided never to bother for any of them. Once they became a status symbol of the elite perfection of superior souls intended to rule the lives of all other GW players I ceased to have anything but contempt for them.

back when sup abs were 60-100k, they also affected elemental damage. Some time later, the drop rate of sup abs increased dramatically (this was confirmed in an update note), and they were nerfed so that they only reduced phys dam.

we are all searching for the holy grail, but it always changes...which refreshes the point.

There are lots of goals I have set for myself as well with my chars. but I have cut down on farming.Why because I am just waiting it out when there will be less players on the server and if I still don't get what want by the time GW 2 comes out I won't be buying it.I will continue to work on the what I want in GW1 and I expect changes when that does happen as GW1 will be practically dry.

I am just waiting for the day if Anet decides to lift the nerfs on farming and running and possibly make the game fun agian.I won't be buying GW2 untill I have fineshed all that I want to do in GW1 and might take break after that.I am not farming as much or running.

I found my holy grail in my fiery dragon sword. Now I just farm for the monies to add sets to my armor collection.

1) Who farms just to kill the same monsters over and over again? The only way anyone grinds is if grind has associated rewards.

2) Farming for monetary rewards has a drastically different scoring system. If I generate money faster than you, I can be just as rich as you or richer with considerably less time investment. If I want to have oodles of titles, the investment of massive quantities of time is a necessary condition. No matter how good/clever you are, you can't make Vanquishing or mission completion go THAT much faster...

Also note that farming is a short-run activity for most of us. It's something you do for an hour or two when you feel like it, and then you move on. If you tried to get 30 titles by investing an hour here and two hours there...it'll take you a while. I prefer my goals in smaller, more manageable chunks.

Figure it this way - when I want money, I farm; when I want other stuff, I do other stuff. I prefer to make money as efficiently as possible so as to have more time to spend achieving my other goals.

3) Good question. Honest answer: because ANet in the design phase adapted the same economic system used by previous MMORPGs that has failed so many times in the past. If ANet ties item possession to title grind in GW2, you'll get what you want here (no economy and no bots).

Some other notes:

I hate playing through the main campaigns. Hate it, hate it, hate it. If I could go anywhere I wanted and do anything I wished without having to be forced to do certain quests...I'd be a much happier PvE-er. I don't mind there being quests with desirable rewards...just let me choose when and where to do them! Clearly, you and I prefer different things.

The secondary market for items fails in many respects; it has to do with the transaction costs associated with reselling items, and the fact that ANet made a large category of items too common in Nightfall/GW:EN.

People want things to be rare and valuable because it connotes VALUE to have those items. I have a pair of Miniature Greased Lightnings. I'm not aware of anyone else with more than one, which makes me unique among GW players. I have a guildie that has a unique item (req 7 15% unconditional Long Sword - item is BLUE btw); same thing there.

People don't just farm for economic value alone; sometimes people set up a farm run as a challenge or thought experiment. (I wonder how much I can make doing...)

You CAN make 15k an hour playing GW these days. You'd better have:
a) finished all campaigns
b) be very good at the game
c) have friends who are very good at the game

for that to be the case. Knowing how/where to make money these days is a major competitive advantage, and it's gotten to the point where people keep such things quiet as a rule.

Sup Absorb used to ROCK. It reduced damage by 3 *globally* (not just when you got hit on that body part) and in addition it reduced all *types* of damage (not just physical).

The upshot was that it was a lot harder to kill a Warrior (especially in PvP) than it is now; between that and the -2 from a shield (usually from an "in Stance") mod, a Warrior on, say, a Drok's run didn't take much damage from any individual attack.

sup abs is still global........unless I missed something

i would farm to make a slightly better chance of getting gold, either money or items,

I farmed decayed or emblems for the haloween event got a lot of bits n bobs but way more golds than usual, so farming can still be productive but depends on how productive you want it to be

Indeed, Sup abs is global, knight's is not, but used to be.

Without farming, I woul'nt play this game. I have no primary hope in farming, it's not an item that I seek, but it is the fun. You don't make large amount of money by farming, you know? I got rich by buying stuffs at low price and sell them at higher price (buy at Kamandan and sell at Kaineng)

Therefore the reason that I farm is to maintain reasonable amount of cash in my bank to avoid bankruptcy.

there is no "HOLY GRAIL" in GW. no amount of money, weapon, armor, etc. will effect your gameplay more than skill and gameplay. This cannot be bought or found in-game, but must be learned from the player themselves. so sadly, a great majority of people will always be searching...

Farming has no real point. I will likely do a bit when I'm nearing the gold amount from normal play (which can be surprisingly high) for FoW armor, to make the hit on my stash a little less, and to leave me with something to spare. And I've famine farmed a lot for my Tormented Shortbow. But without economic advantage, farming sucks. The only reason I can enjoy farming is the pleasure of the grail drop.... be it ecto, shards, an anguish gemstone or golds. And the only reason I like that is because of the anticipation of using it to get what I have been saving up for, such as FoW armor or the Tormented weapons.
I believe that there would be NO problem to farming if it wasn't for gold sellers, who abuse the system.

money is the point of farming

Don't forget the title of richest man in the world.

Farming is a way for people to make themselves feel superior, even though they still suck at the game.

Farming is something you do in PvE after finishing the storyline.

Farming is just as pointless as playing any other part of the game.

The idea of you, a moderator, moderating or commenting in a forum on a game you think of as "pointless" is humorous. Why bother?

Something can be enjoyable and pointless you know. To me gaming is pretty pointless, as it serves no real purpose beyond some light entertainment.

You might live to play games, and therefore have an different opinion, thats fine.

I pretty much play this game to farm and I farm so I can get a lot of money. I don't need all the money I made, but the fact that I have a lot of money makes me happy. And since video games are to provide entertainment, and happiness entertains me a lot, farming in this game serves its point.
Obviously, farming is not the only source of entertainment in this game to me, but it is about the MOST entertaining.
I enjoy having expensive things drop. Some other people will ONLY get happiness from farming what they want. For example, if that person wants a Voltaic Spear, he/she will farm until one drops for him/her to be happy. Obviously it'll take forever, but to them, it's worth it.
It was the part of the same logic that drove Diablo 2 into fame and why it still has a lot of people still playing it after all these years (even though Hellgate London is practically D2 on crack + guns).

I love farming. I have beaten just about everything else, solo farming is the only challenge left. But you know what? I just about bankrupted myself buying some Norn armor for my ranger. I want to buy another set of 15k for my warrior, but that is going to take ages. It took me about a month for my first set of 15k, way back when. I estimate that it will take me 3 months (at the rate I'm going) to make enough this time around.

ANet could always get into the gold selling business; that would solve all their problems. Under-cut the illegal gold sellers to drive them out of business, and make money while developing GW2! If ANet did this and removed the farming nerfs the economy would right itself out in a short time.

I like farming, gives me a goal to see a few k's stockpile in my storage. I like being able to afford for what I want. But most importantly, I like working for what I want - and this is why I would never eBay my cash. Would make things too easily and I'd get bored of this game.

I farm because I like the satisfaction of knowing that everything I kill drops items for ME instead of the gold and items being artificially divided up between myself, heroes and hench.

I farm because I wanted absinthes to get RIGHT WASTED ON from halloween, because it happens to be my drink of choice. (Irl and in Guild Wars.)

I farm because you can only make so much gold playing through the game normally and very rarely will anyone buy anything from you trade wise that is anything SHORT of perfect.

I farm because I get bored and it's a productive way of killing time alone when I'm tired of quests//missions.

Add the gold to their online store like the character slots?
*scratches chin.* I like the way you think, but I can also see ways this would ruin things;

For starters the elitits would get grumpy because anyone with a credit card can become just as 1337 as they are, LITERALLY buying the game, all the gold they could get their hands on, the pvp expansion packs and then saying 'okay, Guild Wars, here I am, rock you like a hurricane!'

Secondly, they'd actually be promoting more reward for LESS time spent on their game. Even if the money went to a good cause LIKE Guild wars too and server maintenance.

Thirdly, there is no real price they could charge for ingame gold that they or anyone buying it, would think reasonable. It's either be too high, and INCREASE the number o fplayers illegally buying gold, or too low, and making the veterans even MORE angry, because not only can any idiot with a Credit card get as much gold as they can, but, they can do so for possibly even an hour or two's work at minimum wage.

I personally hate farming as its very boring and tedious, however there are many people that do enjoy it and I do not begrudge them that.

However there is a difference in a player that farms for hours and hours and makes a good amount of money and one that farms for 10min and makes 100K.


People want more faster with less effort and that is just wrong for many reasons. We have lost the drive or desire to work for our rewards and that is a reflextion on the world outside of this game in general.

I farmed STACKS of Absinthe during this passed halloween event so I could work towards my drunkard title with my drink of choice.

It took DAYS and I intend to drink them all for my minutes legit without zoning. More fun. Not very many people like taking the longer route. =\

But selling the whites and blues to the merchant is how we made our money before...now we have to try to sell stuff to other people and since nobody has money that takes forever. I will not sell to others unless it is something with a standard price like tomes or picks or something like that otherwise I merch everything because selling is anti-fun to me. Before if I wanted 15k I go farm trolls, mino's, etc pu everything they drop and merch it then do over and make 20k/hr so 4 hrs later i got the money for 15k armor and all i have to do is farm materials or mor money to buy the materials and then go get the armor I want. Now I make 2k/hr so have to farm for 40 hours to do same thing and IT SUX!!!! so yes loot scaling is the root of all evil.

Magnus, the problem with ANet selling gold is a very simple one - it completely violates the concept of an inexpensive game with no additional costs which people can freely play. If they were to start selling gold, then the kids whose families will not buy it will become part of an extreme Have-Nots class while others will have everything. Lets say they sold 100k for $25.00. That is 2.5% of my monthly income and 40% of my monthly grocery budget. I realize I am one example from the lower end, however, where I live I am considered to be well off because I afford extravagant things like GW, a computer, and internet. Most families here cannot even afford a computer, and our school has only recently got on-line through a grant program. One of the appeals of GW is that it is not a game you have to spend loads of money to be a part of or play with others.

Well, they can say what they want to. They told us forEver that there was no anti-farming code. That we were all imagining things, but too many people kept records and showed there was. I don't believe them on any of this because they already have a history of lying to us about it.

In general the economy is the most suppressed it has ever been. I fully agree that loot scaling sucks. The way to discourage botters/ebay sellers is and always has been eliminating the need for them. That means absolutely open drops. Increase in the rate at which rare skins, golds, purples, etc. drop. Increase the amount of gold that drops. If players are able to readily keep their bank accounts half full with reasonable effort they will not be interested in ebaying for gold, etc.

Personally I hate farming. I detest spending hour after hour after hour after hour trying to get another 1000 LB points, another 10,000 faction, another 1,000 gold for the next skill, another 200,000+ for armor, insignia, runes and materials. And I still have about 260,000 to get for my guild hall. Do I think those things should be free? No. But all the economic suppression has been to pressure bots and ebayers out, when in fact it only increases the prices they can charge and their incentive to do it. But this is another issue.

Where I started was, why farm? A few people have said it was for the extra challenge of beating monster groups designed for 8 when you are solo. A lot do it for the drops and don't see a point to it beyond the drops/cash incentive - which means they are not farming because they like farming. I cannot be conditioned into believing grind for grinds sake is supposed to be entertaining. GW has become a game centered almost entirely on grind for the sake of grind. Grind for this title. Grind for that title. Grind for your armor. Grind for your weapons. Grind for your skills.

If someone is trying to see just how much mobbing they can take before they get gokked, that is fine - I grok that. But if they are farming for the cash, that is labor/grind without entertainment value. I don't grok that.