Looks like another skills balance (Nerfs) coming, more hits on the Rits

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...iah_Cartwright

Killing PVE skills for the sake of PVP is getting out of hand if you ask me. If they really have such a problem with this they need to put GW2 on hold and design PVP only skills for GW and leave the PVE skills the hell alone.

You cant be serious.

He is, sadly. I've yet to actually see an update that screws PvE (apart from farming builds which don't count), if these balances make PvE harder, isn't that a good thing considering how easy it is 90% of the time.

I agree with Cobalt. I don't give a rat's ass about pvp, and I'm seriously tired of skills nerfed that I used in normal manner just because some flavor of the week spike guild build is causing momentary grief.

I'm sick of rit/sin/para nerfs which render only Proph pve professions versatile and effective in HM situations with omgwtfbbq monster skills and area effects.

edit: Fitz (below) brings up a great point: If the only way Anet can manage the pvp meta is through across-the-board skill nerfs, that shows laziness and a lack of creativity

I fully and completely agree for 2 years!

The destruction of PvE for PvP has always taken priority at ANet. And what in the hell was the reason for nerfing the Monk SS skill? PvP was jealous because PvE players could enjoy a healing skill they couldn't. Its not like monks haven't been nerfed every other way, lets start getting rid of the healing skills too.

Maybe they are looking to obliterate the Magni Tourney build, after all - my god we can't possibly allow players to beat it or that damned griffon. No, I am not in favor of more PvE destruction because they cannot manage PvP right to begin with.

I fully agree with Vitis, and I don't agree that PvE is easy. Maybe if you are either still running on pre-pubescent reaction speed or drug pumped to the point of not being able to observe anything besides the game screen while your hands twitch in autonomic responses to stimulus, then it may be 90% easy. They should quit RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing up the god damned game because of HA whiners - and they damn sure had no reason to RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up our Title Skills that PvP has nothing to do with!

Rit/sin/para are still usable, if anything they are overpowered in both PvE and PvP. If anything PvE has taken priority, such as GWEN, and nightfall.

Well guess what, I'm sick of the PvP destruction because of all the power creeps caused by campains that only really added things for PvE. (Nightfall) (HB can barely count as PvP)

Better find yourself a new game then. This one won't change no matter how many threads are written about this subject.

In PVE you have been given some of the most imbalanced skills possible, consumables, and a bad AI.

If PVP skill balances affect how you play, you have problems

I'm more concerned that Izzy is implying that he plays TF2 more than the game he gets paid to maintain.

Weren't the PvE-Only skills made to justify PvE skill nerfs for PvP? That didn't work out well.

In before lock...

Most PvE players should realize how much skill PvP takes compared to PvE. Once that happens they should realize how broken and how upsetting some of these skills can be with players who know how to use them. Don't cry because your farming build was nerfed because of PvP, cry because ANet doesn't understand their own game.

Good post here. Anet have gone out there way to make PvE easier. HM? while parts of it are hard, most of it isn't that much different from NM.

Instant 10% morale boost etc easy days...if a few skills get nerfed and you can't adept, time to find a new game.

Hellgate London is good

I really can't understand people who can complain about skills being nerfed for pvp, if it affects there pve.

Pve is ridiculously easy in all honesty, with the pve skills, consumables which give you huge advantages and the knowledge of exactly what you're going to face before you go in, I can't see how changes can matter.

On the other hand, at higher ends of the pvp, the slightest difference can be the difference between winning and losing. At the end of the day, whichever anet wishes to focus on overall, for balance pvp has to take precedence because it is so much more finely balanced

the staff play other games addictevly, how do they know what is going on in this game then?

i dont mind changes and balances i tend to find some othr method if it interfears too much with a build,

In defense of Izzy, TF2 is frigging fun.

Also, why aren't Anet employees allowed to play other games?

Who made the rule?

QFT, if anything, things added for PvE have damaged PvP more than the other way around, like heroes.

Apparently no, they must devote all their lives to guild wars, not even able to play other games, let alone give time to their families/pets/stamp collections.

It's irresponsible. You have maybe 50k PvPers (a very broad number) waiting on a skill balance, and then you say "Oh, I play Guild Wars occasionally?" Even moreso when Izzy is the only person who is incharge of skill balancing.

Izzy didn't say "Oh, I play TF2 a little bit, I like it " He said:

"horribly addicted?"

I really wonder what his monatery salary is.

I hope in GW2 they separate PvE and PvP skills... same functionality, but different values in PvE and PvP... that would sort things out (almost) once and for all. Who knows? It might actually happen.

And while the vast majority of nerfs make no difference to PvE, certain classes are getting less and less useful in PvE... a few select nerfs to skills abused in PvP could strike a massive blow to Rits, Paragons and Sins. And certain classes (I give the example of eles and the recent SF buff) are just getting better and better in PvE. (Here I talk about HM. I fail to see how any class will ever find the vast majority of NM PvE hard)
And I wont deny that PvE nerfs/buffs/additions haven't hurt PvP. Its a two way thing. But that just furthers my point that they should be separated.
Oh, and to those who say, "just use consumables", not all of the player-base can afford a powerstone + consumables for every area. And those of us that can... well, PvE is always about bettering your character. For example, most of my money goes towards armor sets, minis and (destroyer) weapons atm. And most of that money is from vanquishing. And if that money is spent on powerstones, I have nothing. I may as well say, "PvP is easy because you can get all the skills quickly, and make armor sets at the click of a button". I don't play PvP at all (except the occasional RA of AB), so I don't claim to know much of how PvE effects PvP, or the intricacies. I wont lecture you on something I know very little about. But I ask you to give me the same privilege.

And reading more of the posts, I feel it is necessary to fortify my rit/sin/para position. Paragons... well, yeah. You can contruct a very good support build with them. But PvE players often like a variation in builds. I will generally have my own made up "flavor of the month" build on my ranger. At the moment its a glass arrows hybrid. I've gotten bored with it at the moment, so I'm experimenting with thumping builds, to see if I can find a workable one for PvE. But I would get incredibly bored if I could only be support, as the paragon is rapidly becoming. Yeah, I'd enjoy it for a month or two. But it would get dull.
Rits, yeah, they have still got a fair bit of firepower. But spirits aren't nearly as versatile as they used to be. Well, I tell a lie. In certain areas they aren't as versatile. And as Anet has announced a plan to nerf it further.... well, I dread the consequences. The damaging skills, still good. But if they have a few nerfs on a few skills, they could destroy that method. And restoration will likely always be good in PvE. But I refer you to my paragon point. Rits aren't nerfed into the ground YET, but they are teetering on the edge.
Sins... well, sins in PvE are VERY hard to play at the moment. The sin in PvP was build around jumping in, dealing quick damage, then jumping out. This does NOT work in PvE, where constant pressure is needed. And in HM, the low armor of the sin does not make them good for staying in Melee. Infinite shadow form worked for a time, but then that was nerfed. So assassins, while good damage dealers, need the monks focus, something not given out easily in HMPvE, to succeed.

Finally, if he nerfs splinter, he will be nerfing the one of the few reamining ranger "AoE" pressure builds for PvE, and likely ranger involvement in elite missions. Again. Please do not do this.

learn to beat heroes

TBH I'd more concerned if Izzy played WoW or RS..

Separate PvE and PvP skills is the only viable option, but will they take it?

Yes because 3 monk backlines at vod, dual clumsiness mesmers, splinter weapon at vod, ancestors rage being an instagib on dp'd characters at vod, bloodspike are all commonly run builds in pve for elite and HM missions....

please think before you post...

what usuran blessing not easy enough for the PvE crowd?

People who work in the games industry are supposed to be playing games. It lets you see where the competition lies, and what new innovations are going through.

In fact, your chances of getting hired into a game company are very slim if you answer "no" to being asked if you actually play and enjoy video games on your own alot. ( of course, you also need to have some kind of worthy skill like 3DS max, Maya, C++/visual studio ect. )

Skills which some of you (including you)still seem to be calling out for nerfs.

Yes, sometimes I do not agree with how these "balances" affect PvE, but I do understand it. It's the area of the game where balance is most needed. But it strikes me funny that you would come here and say don't worry about pvp skill balances, you still got your PvE only skills, then in another thread you're asking Anet to nerf the pve-only skills too.

It's Ursan.

What's this PvE skills make PvE easy crap. THEY ALL SUCK. I still have to micromanage in HM and that makes it even more suck. When I can just kill things easily without challenge, then PvE will be easy. Keyword being I.

True, I do. But only certain ones.

Skills like Great Dwarf Weapon, Pain Inverter... they would be super overpowered in PVP, but I don't call for nerfs on them... I just think a couple are over the top... We'll see what anet do anyway, if they nerf TNTF and Seed of Life I should imagine they won't be hesitent with a few others

i doubt he gets paid for 24 hours in a day.
so why are you here again? don't you have something you need to devote your life to? no time for enjoyment, its not allowed.

''Wait for Guild Wars 2'' We're going to hear that a lot from now on.

If you read the part before the piece the OP quoted, he was talking about not feeling like updating the Wiki, not playing TF2 too much to care about GW. Gaile said in a chat yesterday a skill balance is coming up and I was and still am pretty excited about after reading that post.

I've never had a skill balance affect my PvE builds/experience so much that I would blast A-Net for it. I guess I've never complained about one affecting PvP either. I like the change I guess.

Edit: Hi, Andrew! I see you

All I can say at this point is I'm glad we got Yichi posting again

Actually playing this game be it PVE or PVP takes no skill it basically comes down to who spams what fastest wins always has been.

The real skill in this game is setting up skill set that gives you the best advantage possible and every single nerf just dumbs down the game as each one curtails your skill choices.

At the rate they are dumbing down this game via nerf after nerft, if it were to go on another 4-5 years most every player in every class would have the same skill bar sets because they would be the only good ones left to choose from.

They could then have a whole new slogan " Thanks to Issy GW is so easy even a caveman could play it".

lol^^

pve is alot easier if you can play just like pvp is easier if you can play.
same thing would be like using comsumables all the tme or using wiki-builded teams
They effect each other, if one skill is way imba in one they will nerf it somtime at the expense of the other.

ye can't really blame izzy can ye?
its one man (as i heard, i don't pvp,so it could be a team under his word) that makes all the calls for skill changes,so effectivly the game in his hands. no matter how good his intentions are he can't test out all the pssible buidls witha new update.
Where theres a will theres a way, Some people love to exploit a stituation, be it the duping, the factions preview event with those unlimited spirits, or finding a glich with a skill and exploiting it in pvp.

so what if he plays TF2,100% in his spare time i assume,gw is his job. if youy work at a tayto factory does that mean your limited to that crisp?

No it didnt because they are nerfing the PvE skills so that line of rhetoric can only have been a lie.

food poisoning and new job = lack of forum trolling

PvE has been given imbalanced skills to do the following:

1. Add grind and reward in the form of power.

2. Ease the gameplay (for HM mainly)

3. Counteract PvP nerfs and their overall effect on PvE.

4. Attempt a kind of separation between PvP and PvE.

there are a couple of other reasons but they are non relevant to this discussion.

Points 2. 3. and 4. are directly linked, in fact you could say its the same issue really.

The issue is that with every PvP aimed rebalancing it HURTS the PvE players because although that skill or mechanism has decreased in raw power, the level of the mobs has not

This pushes people to use more and more PvE only skills and to seek to max them out (soley for power)
The problem is; PvE players do not want to play "Bear" or "Assuran". they want to play their class

I ask this:
Why does this not happen in similar games like MTG?

Why not simply LET the meta stabilize and let PLAYERS look for their own counters?

If the meta dies well is it not their own damm fault? (originally bad design/skill balance granted)

how long can Anet keep on doing this?

I wouldnt mind the nerfs half so much if they'd just take a little time to buff some of the awful skills that never see the light of day. Especially for the non-core classes, the existence of alot of dead skills rather limits your options.

Just look at the amount of skills considered LAME on Wiki, it's been like that for years and Arena Net is either not aware of it or can't be bothered.

I would not mind skill balance if we were allowed to have 7 heros, a skill bar that we can fill with all PvE only skills.

Skill balance is what destroyed this game, who cares about FOM builds, give us back the original game I paid for Andrew, with out me and many like me, you would be out of a job.

Frankly, if this is how GW2 is going to be, I predict a dim future for the game, it may do well at first, but I see a lot of players waiting a couple month before buying the game, if they buy it at all. I know I am going to wait.

You want to win me back, give the PvE community either something that will justify skill balance, or make PvP only skills and return all the other nerfed skills back to normal.

My logic for this is not to make PvE easy, or because I want to be lazy, some skills I enjoyed using, it made certain situations fun and enjoyable, given that PvE have many different enviorments and situations means that every place requires a different build. While PvP is the same everywhere, all you have to do is kill other players as fast as you can. The only skill you need is to come up with a better killing build, but envirorment compensation does not exist, well try killing each other while the AI tries to kill you at the same time, that would be good PvP, also with -3 health degen and knockdown every 30 seconds.

Yeah. I wholeheartedly agree. Personally, I'd like to see buffs on a few wilderness survival skills. There are a lot of potentially good skills in there. However, as generally, you have to tie skills in, and you need a lot of marks to do decent damage, you just don't have the stats to use them. I may be utterly wrong, of course. Then again, its not my job.

Threads like this make me wish we had an ignore facility in the forum.

Are you joking? Can we say consumables? That makes PvE even more a joke than what it was when you could control 30 minions. Okay, maybe not that simple but no skill has been nerfed so bad that it makes PvE suck. I mean seriously, don't exaggerate.

hmm way just nerf the rit skills, maybe they should revert all skills back to their original state. Prophecies skills were balanced before factions skills came out and faction skills nerfed before Nightfall came out, and so on if they really want to do a nerf to fix the skills, the best answer is to just rebalance all skills back to the original state, and then do a nerf to fix the skills and do nerfs from there otherwise we are in an endless conflict with the meta game and skill nerfs evey other month it is becoming redundent. This is to be valid point, and to be taken serious.