A complaint to GW development team

Mushin

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

This is a letter addressed to the GW development team, all player are welcome to comment, thx. Mushin


Dear Guild Wars development Team

I am writing on behalf of my guild, questioning the recent update, in which the skill for profession "Ranger" has been modified, or more specificly, weakend.

The skill I am refering to is "Energized Wind" under Beast Mastery. My friends and I are loyal fan of GW and we play a lot with the ranger character, especially we are enlighted by the trapping skill of ranger and it's strategic application. Energized Wind is a key skill for a ranger specialized in trapping and enables him to survive under extreme dangerous enviroment. Previously, with lvl 6 in Beast Mastery a Ranger can create a spirit for 52 seconds. We are under shock to find out that after the recent update, it has been reduced to 9 seconds for lvl 6 beast mastery. I am sure GW team has a reason to update it that way. But i had a long discussion with my guild member and here are the reasons why we consider this update as inappropriate.

1. In my opinion, compared with its application in PvP, the real distinguishing strength of a Ranger lies in its strong PvE usage. By weakening some skill such as "energized wind", it penalized dedicated ranger player, who invested a lot of time and effort to acquire skill and study skill combination.

2. When a game developer starts to mess around with the preset skill, it creates uncertainty and confusion when we choose character. Even worse, my guild member start to question the reputation of ArenaNet as it almost seems like selling a product to a customer with promised quality but then changed it at discretion.

3. We suspect that the reason for the update is to add the difficulty for some ranger player to solo/duo trap in area such as underworld in order to raise quick cash. But here are my questions:
a) It seems you have already made the game harder or the reward less attractive for player that don’t take quests in underworld. But why penalize all ranger player for what some of us have done?
b) By doing the modification, you effectively reduced the degree of freedom in the game for player, as some of us sometimes want to play solo. Now we cannot … which is a disappointment. As being able to playing in team and solo are both important aspect of a game.
c) Can you blame player for trying to getting gold? Since the elite armour are so unbelievably expensive. I don’t like to farm but sometimes we just feel financially squeezed … I have seen player begging for gold in towns, is that a nice gaming enviroment?

With all those said, I am an absolute GW fan. But we are very disappointed with the recent skill update - as dedicated ranger player. Please take a second thought about those updates. Thank you for your effort in advance.


Best regards

Yours sincerely

Mushin Oni

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushin
1. Ranger is relatively weak in PvP Everyone can stop reading here.

Full Metal X

Full Metal X

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

Zomg Lasers Pew

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Everyone can stop reading here. Funny because thats exactly what I did.

iridescentfyre

iridescentfyre

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushin
1. I don't know how to play an effective Ranger in PvP so I assume it sucks. Fixed for accuracy.

RPGmaniac

RPGmaniac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushin
1. Ranger is relatively weak in PvP Wha? I didn't get that memo. They can do all sorts of things. They got damage (BA), condition spamming (Apply+Screaming shot+epidemic), interrupts/daze (BHA, concussion shot), great defensive stances,a reliable cripple, and a wonderful primary attribute allowing them to run interesting build combinations.

The people who beg in towns are lazy scammers looking to make a quick buck without trying at all to earn it. Also, there are other professions you can solo with

It seems like (though I'm not 100% sure since I don't HA much) it was nerfed because a lot of teams were taking advantage of it in HA.

mrmango

mrmango

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Southern California

Charter Vanguard [CV]

Me/Rt

In before close.
No.

lennymon

lennymon

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seattle

Odin's Hammer [OH] - Servant's of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

*grabs a torch*

Joker

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

ESS

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushin
1. Ranger is relatively weak in PvP....... Cripshot + Apply. Enough said......

Kale Ironfist

Kale Ironfist

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

Australia

Venatio Illuminata [VEIL]

W/

1. What iridescentfyre said
2. ArenaNet does the stuff, not PlayNC, so I don't know why you're bringing them up. PlayNC is just the distributor IIRC.
3. You suspect wrong.

horseradish

horseradish

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

In a donut hole

Rt/A

Rangers weak in PvP?

what?

I killed an Ele today by interrupts and poison alone!

Weak.my.ass.

UnKn0wN415

UnKn0wN415

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2007

Bay Area

Looking 4 PvP Guild!

R/

Code:
1. Ranger is relatively weak in PvP
AB they are probably one of the only class that can survive without dying...

EW is now at 15 that means (if my math is correct with 16 expert) you now have to wait till your energy is at at 5 to cast it...

since they change EW I am still trapping in UW with no problem...

AuraofMana

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Georgia, US

Quote:
AB they are probably one of the only class that can survive without dying... Redundant much >_>?

I think Monk ranks one :/

KZaske

KZaske

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Boise Idaho

Druids Of Old (DOO)

R/Mo

*grabs some fire wood & some oil*

/not signed. But I do agree it was excessivly nerfed.

Washi

Washi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushin
1. Ranger is relatively weak in PvP Just die, you do not deserve to play ranger.

MisterB

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushin
1. Ranger is relatively weak in PvP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Everyone can stop reading here. That was exactly my response as well. Nothing to see here.

Rampager

Rampager

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Australia

Mo/

seems im not the only one that stopped there

UnKn0wN415

UnKn0wN415

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2007

Bay Area

Looking 4 PvP Guild!

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraofMana
Redundant much >_>?

I think Monk ranks one :/ let me rephrase what I said, since I wasnt thinking...

Both Monk and Ranger are #1 in staying alive in AB but players must know when to run when things get bad...

BTW close thread...

blue.rellik

blue.rellik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Melbourne, Australia

None

W/

rangers suk cos dey have sukey damage. my war wil alwaiz bet a ranga cos i hit harda den ne prece ranga

4 life bruda

Karia Mirniman

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Mushin.

/agree

Another skill damaged for no known reason.

This forum is being ruined by unpleasantness; So many important threads about PVE issues are being ruined by idiocy and a lack of moderation.

kosh

kosh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

hydrponic agriculture society [Herb]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue.rellik
rangers suk cos dey have sukey damage. my war wil alwaiz bet a ranga cos i hit harda den ne prece ranga

4 life bruda
if you dont have anything good to say. then shut it. also spelling ftw.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Karia Mirniman
Mushin.

/agree

Another skill damaged for no known reason.

This forum is being ruined by unpleasantness; So many important threads about PVE issues are being ruined by idiocy and a lack of moderation. im sorry that both of you feel this way. yes some nerf/buff to game affect the pve world and pvp.

ew was nerf becasue the the "overpower" spirit way that has been dominating pvp world for a while. so there is a reason behind this nerf. since gw came out it has always been an issue with nerf/buff with pve and pvp worlds. the problem is that this is this game was created, both worlds are affected by each other. did you know that favor (the thing that grant you entrance to uw/fow) used to be won in matches in hall of heroes? and that was was favor only the a specific area (I.E amrica, Europe etc) people have ask since the game came out, why does people that want to farm uw/fow are forced to wait and sit until their territory have favor...
it was an attempt by a.net to mix&match both worlds. it was a string that contacted both worlds to be more on the spot.
so yeah some changes will affect pve world more harshly , some the pvp world. there is no winning formula here in most cases.in pvp ew has caused many issues. basically to fuel rao you need ew.

again im sorry you feel this way and that nerf hurt you. but this the way this game works. there will always be updates. and there will always be some one less happy with these update. as for your comment about ranger not being strong in pvp. i think you got bashed enough they are one of the more powerful toons in pvp. dont just throw mindless comments like that. people will just ignore you after saying clueless things.

helios

Div

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

I was a bit nicer and read past the horribad first point until I got to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushin
3. We suspect that the reason for the update is to prevent some ranger player playing solo or getting easier cash by cheating in area such as underworld. Wow...just wow...

Bankai

Bankai

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Bubblegum Dragons

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue.rellik
rangers suk cos dey have sukey damage. my war wil alwaiz bet a ranga cos i hit harda den ne prece ranga

4 life bruda This made me laugh really hard.

In the case of the OP, it seems it's unfortunate for you. The skill suffered from a really bad case of awesome-ness, and it sucks to have normal pvers (read: pvers who don't start shouting and throwing around death threats and threatening to quit the game) be affected by such changes.

BTW, 9 seconds at 6 beast mastery really made me laugh.

Elrien Silentfoot

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

Maybe they should just bump it onto wilderness survival or something.

But yeah, I do think it was excessively nerfed and it does make life a pain for trapper teams. (Most trappers can't afford to take many points in BM, incase anyone wasn't previously aware of the fact.)

Kaida the Heartless

Kaida the Heartless

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

N/

Wait, one ranger in the team can't switch up thier build to help everyone else?

Serious question, btw. I don't do trapper teams so I can't input a valid opinion.

Earth

Earth

Always Outnumbered

Join Date: Jul 2006

Hello hello creativity?

Mushin

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

Dear player,

Thanks for your responses.
First of all, I want to apologize for those ranger player who felt offended by my mindless wording in the original posting. In my opinion, every profession is unique and has its own strength and weakness. From my experience (which is perhaps much less than those who cared to make a comment on the posting), ranger has a stronger emphasis in its PvE application comparing to its PvP usage, which is by no means a discredit to ranger as a profession in PvP, since I agree that it’s the player that determines the outcome of a PvP battle, rather than the profession chosen. But I do feel that the ranger has a particularly unique PvE strength, that’s all I want to emphasis as a supporting argument to my complaint to the game developer.

With that said, the discussion I posted is not about the strength or weakness of a ranger, but about the validity of the recent update, which most of the player commented on my posting seems to have ignored. Especially I was shocked by the diverse levels of wording and the personality reflected by their commentator in such a well-known forum.

I want to thank those who had the patience to read the whole posting and replied with thoughtful argument – either in agreement or disagreement - for their contribution to my posting.

Have a nice weekend to all!

Mushin

Washi

Washi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

They nerfed EW cause it was overpowered in pvp. Get over it, there are hundreds other skills and builds to come up with. You say like this was the only good ranger skill and without it R is worthless. Just adapt to the new situation. You either evolve or you die, simple really.

Elrien Silentfoot

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless
Wait, one ranger in the team can't switch up thier build to help everyone else?

Serious question, btw. I don't do trapper teams so I can't input a valid opinion.
No. The point of energising winds was that it allowed 1 or 2 rangers to spam enough traps to be effective at trapping high level areas. With a trapping build you're now forced to take additional trappers with you wherever you're going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Washi
They nerfed EW cause it was overpowered in pvp. Get over it, there are hundreds other skills and builds to come up with. You say like this was the only good ranger skill and without it R is worthless. Just adapt to the new situation. You either evolve or you die, simple really. It did more or less wreck being able to trap effectively in small groups. There's no other ranger build which can reliably spike high level mobs to death with only 1 or 2 rangers.

TEB Elite

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2007

California, USA

Mo/

I agree, I have had to start doing trios to get the same amount of time for a run in.

Washi

Washi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

What if you take Necro hero with you with Blood is Power and Blood Ritual? Still not enough energy? I'm sure there are other skills that help with energy managment, I'm not gonna search for you. Just send the hero away after you're done putting traps.

I don't believe there is no way to get around the nerf.

It became harder, not impossible. And if you complain that farming is hard... lol you don't have to do it.

yum

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushin
With that said, the discussion I posted is not about the strength or weakness of a ranger, but about the validity of the recent update, which most of the player commented on my posting seems to have ignored. Especially I was shocked by the diverse levels of wording and the personality reflected by their commentator in such a well-known forum.
You should know that this 4rum is very unfriendly to noobs (not newbs though). That's why people reacted the way they did when you made absurd statements such as "Ranger is relatively weak in PvP" and "We suspect that the reason for the update is to prevent some ranger player playing solo or getting easier cash by cheating in area such as underworld."

Joker

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

ESS

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Washi
What if you take Necro hero with you with Blood is Power and Blood Ritual? Still not enough energy?
Then you are still taking along an extra person, which, in no way, solves the problem of not being able to effectively trap in smaller groups.

Quote: Originally Posted by Washi I'm sure there are other skills that help with energy managment, I'm not gonna search for you. Just send the hero away after you're done putting traps. Have you EVER done a trapping run before? I'm guessing not because if you had, you would know that traps do not last long enough to set, pull a hero far enough away as to not effect drops, and then pull a mob into them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Washi
I don't believe there is no way to get around the nerf.

It became harder, not impossible. And if you complain that farming is hard... lol you don't have to do it. Yes it became harder, the problem is it already to a good amount of skill to do properly in the first place. It went from difficult to really hard, and thats just on normal mode. I don't even want to think about what its going to be like doing it in hard mode.

MisterB

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker
Then you are still taking along an extra person, which, in no way, solves the problem of not being able to effectively trap in smaller groups.
What is the problem with taking heroes if they are out of drop range? There's very little room in UW when you start, but that is only about half the Chamber. After you kill the first few mobs, you'll have enough space to flag heroes out of range.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker Have you EVER done a trapping run before? I'm guessing not because if you had, you would know that traps do not last long enough to set, pull a hero far enough away as to not effect drops, and then pull a mob into them. Wrong. Be creative, and/or practice. I've taken up to 2 heroes to "solo" Stygian Veil trap, and I suck at microing heroes. The heroes never took any drops. It just takes correct timing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker
Yes it became harder, the problem is it already to a good amount of skill to do properly in the first place. It went from difficult to really hard, and thats just on normal mode. I don't even want to think about what its going to be like doing it in hard mode. OK, it's harder. But that is to be expected that solo-farming builds must be adapted or changed with a major update. To expect or demand otherwise is unreasonable.

My first response to this change was to simply change my build. I haven't worked it out completely, but Washi has already posted the premise of my idea. If my idea works, it's more than enough killing power to make stupid damage numbers asplode all over the screen again.

Redvex

Redvex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

R/

Anet always consider PVP>PVE then they don't take care about farming that they don't approve.
I'm a ranger fun and i like it, but they nerfed splinter barrage.....but now also trapping I've enough of that.

~ Dan ~

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Everyone can stop reading here. I actually stopped when he referred to Energizing Wind, knowing it would be a complaint based on farming.

Washi

Washi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redvex
Anet always consider PVP>PVE then they don't take care about farming that they don't approve. And thats what they should do. GJ for them.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker
Yes it became harder, the problem is it already to a good amount of skill to do properly in the first place. It went from difficult to really hard, and thats just on normal mode. I don't even want to think about what its going to be like doing it in hard mode. hows spamming traps then pulling something to it hard?
hard mode,theyre aggro is alot more...."sticky",so it should be alot easier....
all farming - plain easy and only goes wrong on behalf of one or two things

So69be

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

IMO they should just remove EW since they nerfed it so badly that it has no real use, considering the energy spent to summon the spirit and the little bit of energy that it reduces from the one trap you can lay in the time the spirit is there, could just as well not take the spirit... i think they should make a PvE only skill that works the same as EW. since PvP is the reason it was nerfed

So69be

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

FYO Hard mode gives makes them scatter when hit by traps so you have to add a bit move strategy

Phaern Majes

Phaern Majes

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2005

Anywhere but up

The Panserbjorne [ROAR]

R/Mo

I personally dislike the nerf. The first nerf the one that was made on Nov. 8th was ok, maybe even not enough but look at what they did.

Thursday November 8th:

Ranger:

*Energizing Wind: increased Energy cost to 15; decreased duration to 30..90 seconds; decreased Spirit's level to 1..6.

Tuesday November 13th:

Ranger:

Energizing Winds: decreased duration to 1..31 seconds.

All they did was change the maximum to the old minimum, and set the new minimum to 1. I mean that seemed to be a drastic jump. "Oh 30-90 seems a bit high I know lets ignore the numbers 32-89 and drop it all the way to 1...31 seconds." I mean where is the logic? Hell you have to have Beast Mastery set at least to 10 before this skill is even remotely useful for anything. Not to mention they left the recharge at 60 seconds. Meh just very unhappy with the double nerf bat on that one. If they had settled at something like 20...45 or anything like that it would be reasonable, it would be acceptable. Or if they would change its attribute to expertise. Doing that would prevent the Rt/R's and any other X/R's from running the skill with any success while not totally blowing the effectiveness of the skill.