The use of superior runes and major runes is greatly limited.
It is a trade-off between higher attribute levels and the ability to spread them better to reach breakpoints, for some 35 to 75 health points.
Then we have specialized builds that use multiple superior runes, think of the many 55 HP monk variants. If these builds are exploitive, good or bad, is subject to debate.
My suggestion: Remove the HP penalty from superior and major runes, but limit their numbers
1 Superior Rune at maximum
or
2 Major Runes at maximum
If Vigor runes should be affected, too, could be debated.
* This would strengthen primary classes, as they have access to runes
* Bring back Sup/Major runes into PvP. So far, the HP loss is considered unfavorable and the rune type might as well not exist
* It would destroy low-hp farming builds like the 55 HP monk
For GW1, this idea is probably too late. But maybe it has some merit for GW2.
No more -X HP to Sup/Major runes, but limited numbers (more an idea for GW2)
Longasc
Antheus
I fail to understand why -HP is a problem.
Better yet - if you remove HP penalty, there's no need for 3 different runes anymore - just use superiors for everything. And after you do that, just grant +3 to all attributes. And once you do that, might as well remove the whole thing, and just rescale all skills to 0..12.
No, it's not.
Why destroy it? 55 is so 2 years ago.
Edit: nm, I noticed the character name.
Better yet - if you remove HP penalty, there's no need for 3 different runes anymore - just use superiors for everything. And after you do that, just grant +3 to all attributes. And once you do that, might as well remove the whole thing, and just rescale all skills to 0..12.
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| The use of superior runes and major runes is greatly limited. |
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| It would destroy low-hp farming builds like the 55 HP monk |
Edit: nm, I noticed the character name.
Longasc
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Antheus
I fail to understand why -HP is a problem.
Better yet - if you remove HP penalty, there's no need for 3 different runes anymore - just use superiors for everything. (...) Edit: nm, I noticed the character name. |
You just did not read the part where the number of superior runes was limited to ONE.
And sorry, what is wrong with my character name?
legion_rat
dont see the problem with runes. I think the -hp adds balance to the +1,2,3 to skills. All my heros have majors except olias who has sup death.
and let the mods catch it the name it will prob make them smile
~the rat~
and let the mods catch it the name it will prob make them smile
~the rat~
Cebe
Since this is "more of an idea for GW2" perhaps it should have been posted in the Guild Wars 2 Suggestion Thread.
It seems to me that basically all this will achieve is to kill off the 55HP monk?
It seems to me that basically all this will achieve is to kill off the 55HP monk?
EinherjarMx
/notsigned, if you want to do "more" damage there must be a trade off,
jrk247
This is a bad idea.
Do I even have to explain why?
Do I even have to explain why?
Longasc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jrk247
This is a bad idea.
Do I even have to explain why? |
Yes, you bothered to post, now you have to make a point.
arcanemacabre
I think the limit thing is a good idea - that alone would kill the 55. Still, there is a basic game balance in the health penalties that should remain in GW1. Now, GW2... well we don't even know if they're keeping the rune system. It may end up being an entirely different armor mod system, who knows?
pumpkin pie
nah, i like my 55 monk. i bought an extra account just to make one, when the options to purchase slots are not implemented.... and you want to kill him. my poor monk...
Alex Morningstar
-hp is only a problem if you don't know how to kite. +hp are for those that don't know how to kite.
Solution: If you have HP problems, fix your build/playstyle. You don't need 8 attacks on one bar.
Solution: If you have HP problems, fix your build/playstyle. You don't need 8 attacks on one bar.
glountz
Sup runes were less a problem when you could headpiece-swap in PvP and before Nightfall damage power creep (even in PVE).
Now they are just not worth it. Majors are still scarsely used when you need to reach some attributes breakpoints.
Solution: Do not remove HP penalty, but lower it to balance with post-Nightfall damage.
Sup: -50 HP; Maj: -25HP, Min:-5HP (never understood why minors didn't have a HP loss. That makes minors always beneficial than no runes).
Now they are just not worth it. Majors are still scarsely used when you need to reach some attributes breakpoints.
Solution: Do not remove HP penalty, but lower it to balance with post-Nightfall damage.
Sup: -50 HP; Maj: -25HP, Min:-5HP (never understood why minors didn't have a HP loss. That makes minors always beneficial than no runes).
arcanemacabre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by glountz
(never understood why minors didn't have a HP loss. That makes minors always beneficial than no runes).
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I do think that maybe a lowered cost overall is a decent idea.... maybe.
BlueNovember
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alex Morningstar
-hp is only a problem if you don't know how to kite. +hp are for those that don't know how to kite.
Solution: If you have HP problems, fix your build/playstyle. You don't need 8 attacks on one bar. |
Yup, this is why all monks and casters in gvg run 480hp with radiant insignias.
Or not. :P
On topic:
Is your suggestion that one can have either 1 sup, 2 majors, or 3+ minors? That's interesting, certainly. Most of the cons have already been mentioned;
It would kill of the 55 build and thus alienate a _large_ amount of the community,
It favours classes that only generally only use one major attribute (Elementalists, Necros)
More people would run sup runes so balance would change as more break-points are reached on currently-used skills
Interesting, but /not-signed here, for reasons above.
MithranArkanere
Hehe... just make the HP downside wrk only in PvP and done, XD.
55HP killed, XD.
I assure you that superior runes are used in PvP.
55HP killed, XD.
I assure you that superior runes are used in PvP.
ValaOfTheFens
The -hp from Sup runes isn't a big deal as you should only be -150hp tops. More than 2 Sup runes equals no Rebirth at 60dp and is just plain overkill. That happened in a pug I was in in UW the other day. *lol* Alot of people underestimate the power of Major and Minor runes. Sometimes you only need 9-12 in a certain attribute for it to be good.
Div
What a horrible idea. If it's your attempt to kill 55 monks, you fail. The sup/major runes exist as tradeoffs that people can make to become stronger in battle. Under your system, there's little variety and everyone will be only able to run a certain amount of them.
natural sugar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens
The -hp from Sup runes isn't a big deal as you should only be -150hp tops. More than 2 Sup runes equals no Rebirth at 60dp and is just plain overkill. That happened in a pug I was in in UW the other day. *lol* Alot of people underestimate the power of Major and Minor runes. Sometimes you only need 9-12 in a certain attribute for it to be good.
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As for the suggestion, sorry but its a terrible idea. I can't see anything worthwhile coming out of this, /notsigned.
ValaOfTheFens
Quote:
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Originally Posted by natural sugar
-150 is a pretty high cap. I can't see any situation where more than 1 Superior (or any superior, for that matter) is necessary aside from specific builds like 55/330 HP.
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Arkantos
The -hp is there for balance and it should stay that way. Destroying farming builds is pretty lame too. It's not like people make alot of money farming these days anyways. Let them have their pocket gold. Sorry but I think this is a pretty bad idea.
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Longasc
It would destroy low-hp farming builds like the 55 HP monk
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placebo overdose
you cannot ask people to defend there opinions on this idea because it is utter crap and it goes with out saying this is a bad idea
end note dont fix that which is not boken
end note dont fix that which is not boken
Winterclaw
A better idea is to put a limit on the -HP instead. Say have no more than -15 health from all rune sources after the first one. Another thing to do would be to make -HP offhands non-stacking with the -hp from runes.
Arkantos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
A better idea is to put a limit on the -HP instead. Say have no more than -15 health from all rune sources after the first one. Another thing to do would be to make -HP offhands non-stacking with the -hp from runes.
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Onarik Amrak
I suppose it'd kill 55s. But won't it break game balance at the same time?
jrk247
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Originally Posted by Longasc
Yes, you bothered to post, now you have to make a point.
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Maybe discuss this in the GW2 suggestion thread where it obviously belongs.
Snow Bunny
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Originally Posted by Longasc
Terribad suggestion regarding runes
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Longasc
Unban Soticoto. He does not deserve a permaban
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/notsigned
Winterclaw
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
Farming is pretty much dead. Having these 55 monks running around causes no harm. Whats the point of nerfing them?
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Kanyatta
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
I assure you that superior runes are used in PvP.
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Paraway (Sup spear)
BSpike (sup blood)
if they nerfed the 55 monk, they could remove loot scaling and such, and the price of ebay gold would go up, making it less desirable to the community, as long as it doesnt affect pvp, i'd /sign it, but if it did, i'd have to /notsign it
Arkantos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
Rebalancing PvE is like rebalacing PvP, it shakes things up.
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Faer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Longasc
* It would destroy low-hp farming builds like the 55 HP monk
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Anyway, I love this idea. I'm all for any change that would make pumping weapon mastery up to 16 (or a magic line to 16) without losing any of my amazing 650+ health so that gimmicky spikes are easier to pull off, because that's all the Guru mods know how to play (and all we ever do is PvP, naturally).
Winterclaw
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
What exactly is this going to "shake up" in PvE?
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Savio
I'm impressed. I thought Sardelac ideas couldn't get any worse.
Winterclaw
They can always get worse.
Jwh6913
if you REALLY wanted to nerf 55 monks, just take away the collector items with -50 health 
problem solved and no messing around with sup runes needed
problem solved and no messing around with sup runes needed
Arkantos
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
You never know unless anet tries it out for a week or two.
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Savio
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jwh6913
if you REALLY wanted to nerf 55 monks, just take away the collector items with -50 health
problem solved and no messing around with sup runes needed |
Winterclaw
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
But we do know. ANet does this, people will bitch and complain until it's changed back. That's a fact
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Red Sonya
I kinda agree with this idea. No more than 1 superior rune of profession (except for superior vigor) is a great idea and kill the 55 anything builds. I've always thought the 55 monk wasn't really an rpg type of character and more of a gamey build. It's one of those Flavor or the GW lifetime builds that just needs to be put to bed now and man would that kill all those monk bots we see in various places. I'd laugh.
Longasc
Right how, the difference between 14 and 16 in an attribute is considered "not worthwhile to sacrifice 75 HP for". The usual PvP experts here told me. Two superior runes makes one suspicious of suicidal tendencies. So much about variety. It sounds similar to the "variety" of inscriptions on weapons, where 15^50 or +5 energy are being used over the ton of others.
What balance would be destroyed if everyone would have ONE superior rune? PvP, PvE? It would add to the power creep, but that was it.
Including/excluding Superior Vigor would also make things quite different.
Critical hits would go up with higher weapon mastery, but healing would also improve and would allow a 15/11/11 attribute spread on monks.
That 55 HP farming would be gone would be a side effect. People could still use other farming builds, "600 HP" being the most obvious alternative. Or farming with another class.
Seems I have hit a nerve with this suggestion, people quitting because they can no longer 55 HP farm or the final nail to the coffin of GW PvP sounds quite dramatic. Of course there is no immediate need to change this now, hence the GW2 tag. It is just food for thought, not food for rants like that:
And this makes me a "goddamn carebear"? Especially as I suggested nerfing a certain "bear" in GW. Still do not get it that mods permit such rabid schoolyard rants.
What balance would be destroyed if everyone would have ONE superior rune? PvP, PvE? It would add to the power creep, but that was it.
Including/excluding Superior Vigor would also make things quite different.
Critical hits would go up with higher weapon mastery, but healing would also improve and would allow a 15/11/11 attribute spread on monks.
That 55 HP farming would be gone would be a side effect. People could still use other farming builds, "600 HP" being the most obvious alternative. Or farming with another class.
Seems I have hit a nerve with this suggestion, people quitting because they can no longer 55 HP farm or the final nail to the coffin of GW PvP sounds quite dramatic. Of course there is no immediate need to change this now, hence the GW2 tag. It is just food for thought, not food for rants like that:
Quote:
| Lol, wut? This suggestion is so bad. Lets make things easier, amirite?. Goddamn carebear |