Anyone who hasn't done this quest, be warned. The bear cheats. I am all for challenges, and difficulties, but this bear for the quest plain cheats. If I am wrong in any of what I am about to say, please correct me. However, this is what I have observed on 4 characters doing this quest.
Rabid Bear is a W/R level 24.
It uses a decent build:
[skill]Defy Pain[/skill][skill]Dolyak Signet[/skill][skill]Leviathan's Sweep[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill]
The Rabid bear has boss stats (1/2 duration of hexes/conditions, 1/2 activation time on skills, extra health, etc.)
Now, I can handle the Rabid Bear being treated as a boss, and giving it the activation bonus, etc. But it also has half recharge, and can attack while using Troll Unguent. I used "You Move Like a Dwarf!" to knock down the Rabid Bear while it was using Troll Unguent, and it was interrupted. (didn't have Dolyak up) Since the Norn shout has a 10 second recharge, and Troll has a 3 (1.5 for the bear) activation, I thought I'd be able to use it again for the next Troll. However, I saw the Bear use Troll Unguent when my shout was only 1/2 recharged.
Now, to make things worse, WHILE USING TROLL UNGUENT, the Bear hit me for damage. The first time it happened, I though maybe I lagged or something. But it happened multiple times. Luckily, the Bear doesn't do large damage.
Now, the Hammer you get doesn't need to be used for anything but the killing blow, so you can weapon switch. But if you do use the club, it does no damage. It is listed as a 15-15 damage, no attribute hammer. However, I manage to do 2-5 damage with it. And that is before it gets armor boosts from Dolyak or Defy.
Either this quest is bugged, or Anet allows this NPC to cheat.
/rant
Bear Club for Men/Women
MagmaRed
Kha
ANet put in a monster that cheats. Shocking.
ensoriki
ummm >.>
.......Distracting shot?
.......Distracting shot?
Zeek Aran
GB Riposte build?
Crom The Pale
There are tonnes of easy builds to kill the bear, trap him, set up spirits, ect..
The bear cheats, but so do most bosses in GW.
The bear cheats, but so do most bosses in GW.
Faer
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Originally Posted by ensoriki
.......Distracting shot?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zeek Aran
GB Riposte build?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
trap him, set up spirits, ect..
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Zeek Aran
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Originally Posted by Faer
URSAN BLESSING?
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Holy RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing shit, how did you beat Alemoot? The quest is so RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing glitchy. Yes, the swearing is required.
EDIT: Uh... beat it. >>;
Zeek Aran
Killed with my axe build. Not gimmicky.
...Defy Pain didn't allow a switch to the club. >>
Beat him again, used the club about half the time because I couldn't get the timing right. Bring two interrupts, or two KDs, or any combo like that and you're fine.
...Defy Pain didn't allow a switch to the club. >>
Beat him again, used the club about half the time because I couldn't get the timing right. Bring two interrupts, or two KDs, or any combo like that and you're fine.
MagmaRed
I wasn't saying I can't beat this quest. I have done so. I am saying the difficulty is beyond normal. And some classes have little to no option. Monk? How does a Monk interrupt 2 times, quickly? Paragon? How does a Paragon interrupt 2 times quickly? Dervish? How does a Dervish interrupt 2 times quickly? In fact, how do they do it once without a secondary (with ease at least).
The Norn Tourney doesn't cheat, so the difficulties in that can be planned for. How do you plan on cheating?
Not all players have options for changing secondary to get skills needed. Not all players have skills available. This quest cheats, and is unfair. I can and have beat this quest. That is not my issue.
The Norn Tourney doesn't cheat, so the difficulties in that can be planned for. How do you plan on cheating?
Not all players have options for changing secondary to get skills needed. Not all players have skills available. This quest cheats, and is unfair. I can and have beat this quest. That is not my issue.
Faer
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
How do you plan on cheating?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Faer
URSAN BLESSING?
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I really don't see what the problem is.
MisterB
It's a boss. It has bonuses that make it stronger than average, yes. So what? I just don't see the hard part of defeating that skill bar. Troll? Really? The boss has half skill recharge, too. That's why Trolls recharged in half the time.
Avarre
Why do people say monsters cheat? In what game ever are monsters tied to the same rules as the players? In what part of Guild Wars did anyone say that the same rules apply to monsters as players? The monsters are how they are, they function fully withing their own design parameters. Nobody ever called out Rakanishu for 'cheating' because he had lightning enchant aura.
I don't get it.
I don't get it.
Yichi
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Originally Posted by Avarre
I don't get it.
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fenix
Quote:
| Nobody ever called out Rakanishu for 'cheating' because he had lightning enchant aura. |
This thread is funny. The bear (although I lost to it, as I didn't know I had to use the club...yeah... I don't read quests) isn't hard to beat. Just bring any weapon, get it down to a tiny amount of health with a normal weapon, then bash it with the Club. Instawin.
holababe
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
I wasn't saying I can't beat this quest. I have done so. I am saying the difficulty is beyond normal. And some classes have little to no option. Monk? How does a Monk interrupt 2 times, quickly? Paragon? How does a Paragon interrupt 2 times quickly? Dervish? How does a Dervish interrupt 2 times quickly? In fact, how do they do it once without a secondary (with ease at least).
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Monks have [skill]Signet of Judgement[/skill] and [skill]Bane Signet[/skill]
I don't have a dervish.
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
....
Rabid Bear is a W/R level 24. It uses a decent build: .... |
/R
Bow.
Dshot
Apply Poison.
Cripling Shot (optional)
when hes about to die just swap to club.
Oblivious Moose
it shouldnt matter what prof you use.. even the secondary doesnt matter..
you can easily kill the bear w/o getting scratched.. only need 2 skills..
ursan blessing (ya... its imba) and ebon vanguard escape...
use the vanguard skill on one of the npc's outside of the ring your in, stay on the outside.. use UB.. and kill the bear, sure it will take time, but you wont ever have to worry about it killing you.
2 skills = insta win, no contsest, even if the bear cheats..
you can easily kill the bear w/o getting scratched.. only need 2 skills..
ursan blessing (ya... its imba) and ebon vanguard escape...
use the vanguard skill on one of the npc's outside of the ring your in, stay on the outside.. use UB.. and kill the bear, sure it will take time, but you wont ever have to worry about it killing you.
2 skills = insta win, no contsest, even if the bear cheats..
Sirius-NZ
GuildWiki had an awesome suggestion for dealing with this quest. It's completely cheese, but so is the quest.
Ebon Escape. Use it on one of the Norn outside the ring. The bear will not be able to get to you and so, provided you have enough DPS to drop it eventually, you can't really lose it anymore. Ursan Blessing works fine for that - just keep spamming the primary attack.
Ebon Escape. Use it on one of the Norn outside the ring. The bear will not be able to get to you and so, provided you have enough DPS to drop it eventually, you can't really lose it anymore. Ursan Blessing works fine for that - just keep spamming the primary attack.
gremlin
Hmm if only there was a character class that was great at interupting.
With skills that cast very quickly and maybe steal skills from opponents, while damaging and draining energy.
Nope cannot think of one atm, pity anet didnt give us one.
With skills that cast very quickly and maybe steal skills from opponents, while damaging and draining energy.
Nope cannot think of one atm, pity anet didnt give us one.
Mr. G
Rangers.......?
EPO Bot
Phaern Majes
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Originally Posted by Mr. G
Rangers.......?
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zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by Phaern Majes
I think you missed the sarcasm. And I'm pretty sure he was referring to Mesmers. Though rangers have some nice interrupts.
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btw: rangers don't just have nice interrupts, they have THE best interrupts. nothing beats well used D-shot.
MagmaRed
/sigh
Can nobody read? I beat the quest. I am not complaining it is too hard. I am complaining that it is unfair. Hard but fair is good, I enjoy a challenge. Easy but unfair is bad, I don't enjoy cheats.
Worst thing I saw, nobody has commented on.
I WAS ATTACKED WHILE THE BEAR WAS USING TROLL UNGUENT. This happened more than once, so it was not an issue of lag or me not paying attention. But when I take damage from the bear, and see it moving, while Troll Unguent is less than half completed, it is unfair.
The whole thing annoyed me immensely. Yes, I failed it a few times, because I was not willing to change secondary, and did not have Ursan yet. I beat it without using Ursan, as I don't like the skill anyway.
I want my Ranger to be able to attack during the 3 seconds it takes to activate Troll Unguent.
Can nobody read? I beat the quest. I am not complaining it is too hard. I am complaining that it is unfair. Hard but fair is good, I enjoy a challenge. Easy but unfair is bad, I don't enjoy cheats.
Worst thing I saw, nobody has commented on.
I WAS ATTACKED WHILE THE BEAR WAS USING TROLL UNGUENT. This happened more than once, so it was not an issue of lag or me not paying attention. But when I take damage from the bear, and see it moving, while Troll Unguent is less than half completed, it is unfair.
The whole thing annoyed me immensely. Yes, I failed it a few times, because I was not willing to change secondary, and did not have Ursan yet. I beat it without using Ursan, as I don't like the skill anyway.
I want my Ranger to be able to attack during the 3 seconds it takes to activate Troll Unguent.
Ctb
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| I don't enjoy cheats |
I mean, yea, it's crappy, but it's also typical. The AI for everything in GW is pretty stupid, and GW is a heavily tactical game. You're kind of out of luck because the only way to make the monster "hard" is to give them annoying properties that amount to little more than company-sponsored hacks. The entire set of bonuses bosses receive is the same thing, the whole "attacking while using TU" just takes it a little further.
Mr. G
Quote:
| I think you missed the sarcasm |
Alexandra-Sweet
Uhmm don't all games use cheating AI to make it a bit of a challenge?
Why spend years developing a challengable AI when you can have them cheat?
Why spend years developing a challengable AI when you can have them cheat?
Ctb
Quote:
| Why spend years developing a challengable AI when you can have them cheat? |
I mean, when you face a boss, you usually don't really need to use different tactics compared to the non-boss enemies of the same profession and race. You just have to make sure you keep repeating the old tactic with the understanding that there's no room for mistake. In other words, it's not HARDER, it's just LONGER which makes it all the more irritating when you lose because you hit "3" instead of "2" on the ninth iteration of the same stupid combo.
I wish that game companies could make better AI, but I fear that it's still a long way off, especially for online games.
A11Eur0
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Originally Posted by Faer
All players who are playing Eye of the North have the option to change their secondary and obtain whatever skills they need to complete the quest with ease, cheating bear or no cheating bear.
I really don't see what the problem is. |
Longasc
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Originally Posted by A11Eur0
Not all level 20's are ascended level 20's. I played a quest in GWEN with someone who hadn't gotten past Lion's Arch yet....still had LA-level armor on and was dying every 30 seconds.
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But does not change the fact that a normal person without sub par armor could do it.
Rathcail
Ahh the Bear Club quest, good times. I misunderstood the killing blow part and used the club for the whole fight. Didn't matter much of course, since I'm a beastmaster.
Miss Puddles
i hardly remember doing this quest it was so easy. did they change it??
BlueSS
I did this quest about an hour ago with my warrior. It was quite easy, the bear never had a chance to do anything.
W/Rt
Pain
Bloodsong
Vampirism
Wanderlust
Anguish
Painful Bond
Empty Slot
Empty Slot
W/Rt
Pain
Bloodsong
Vampirism
Wanderlust
Anguish
Painful Bond
Empty Slot
Empty Slot
Faer
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Originally Posted by A11Eur0
Not all level 20's are ascended level 20's
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
I was not willing to change secondary
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Kale Ironfist
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Originally Posted by Miss Puddles
i hardly remember doing this quest it was so easy. did they change it??
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Preview event was Level 20 with no boss buff IIRC.
A11Eur0
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Originally Posted by Faer
So what? Are you saying they don't have the option to ascend? Last I checked, everyone playing the game with a PvE character had that option. If somebody chooses not to take advantage of it, well, that's too bad. It's still there though.I think that unwillingness to use all tools at your disposal is probably worse than a bear who "cheats".
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That level 20 who didn't get past LA would need to go all the way to the Desert to ascend, assuming he didn't have factions or NF...not all people have factions or NF thus not everyone has access to the super-cheap spirit build, not everyone has the out-of-the-way towns in proph that offer some of the more useful skills thus would have to be run or get themselves there, then pay even more to obtain these skills. Sure they can PvP and unlock, then tome, these skills but that's more time spent NOT doing what they want to do...which is eotn.
Just because the option is there, doesn't mean it's a viable or attractive option. Some people don't read wiki or guru and don't know these options are out there YET. That may seem strange to you who should know every last detail of this game..but it's true.
This quest and various others are designed for the hardcore players who use every possible resource they can to play their game...they use cookie-cutter builds that have little to no room for error. Forcing a character class to use a weapon that's not made for their profession to complete a quest, and at the same time make the enemy of focus in that quest cheat to no end...that's just stupid.
You see my point right? GWEN is tailored to the elite players but advertised to all. It's a poor design and poorly implemented.
Kale Ironfist
Quote:
| You see my point right? GWEN is tailored to the elite players but advertised to all. It's a poor design and poorly implemented. |
Then again, these quests are optional, and don't have to be completed to continue the game.
Rathcail
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Originally Posted by A11Eur0
That level 20 who didn't get past LA would need to go all the way to the Desert to ascend, assuming he didn't have factions or NF
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MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by Faer
I think that unwillingness to use all tools at your disposal is probably worse than a bear who "cheats".
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Consider a Monk. The only way a Monk can interrupt the bear is with knockdowns. There are only a few skills to do this, and they all have long recharges. Dolyak Signet makes it worthless to use knockdowns anyway. Now, consider common secondaries seen on Monks, usually for farming. Mo/D has no extra interrupts, so what do they use? Mo/P has 1 potential interrupt, only if using a spear, and conditional. Mo/A has 2 interrupts, but 1 requires daggers, and neither recharge as fast as the Bears Troll.
I have no problems buying skills, as I have enough money to do so. There are quite a few people who do not have money to spend on skills to allow them to complete a quest. Many of those people also do not have secondaries to change to for more options, and may not even have the games (Factions or Nightfall) to offer the classes they may want to use.
I would like to see these quests possible to complete by ALL classes with no use of a secondary. That still leaves some people out, as it may be virtually impossible without owning all the games for skill options. But when you have no team to work with, you are required to do everything by yourself. Some classes do not offer skills to do some of what is needed.
Yes, this is a gripe. The quest is unfair in my opinion, and made worse by the fact that the Bear cheats.