Fix'ing Assassin Utility

glountz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/Mo

26 Nov 2007 at 12:53 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

So you're in support of a skill that says "Press 1234567 on your keyboard. Targeted foe has a 50% chance of dying. That chance is increased by 45% if they are suffering from Japanlag, not within range of monks, or if opponent monks have less than 5 energy." Oh ok.

Pretty sure they're still imbal. Press b and watch some matches. Coz of course, when you play monk and that you have 5 energy, or suffering from ANetlag, and that a frenzied conjured warrior Cripslash-Gash-Sun&Mun-whatevernextattack or Evisc-Exec-Agon bash you you have more chances to survive, uh?
Ah yes, it takes more skill.
12345 (Frenzy-Crip-Gash-Sun-Rush) is better than 1234567. Forgot that.

In short, I don't think your argument stands.

The big argument against sins is shadow stepping that prevent good monks from seeing the melee train coming.

moriz

??ber t??k-n??sh'??n

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada

26 Nov 2007 at 13:06 - 42

if you think warriors play by mashing their keys in order, then you are dumb.

kindly stop talking about high level gvg if you've never played it.

glountz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/Mo

26 Nov 2007 at 14:44 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

if you think warriors play by mashing their keys in order, then you are dumb.

kindly stop talking about high level gvg if you've never played it. Because warriors spike can be Rush-Sun-Gash-Crip-Frenzy?
A warrior spike is as dumb as a sin spike. You have to press keys in a certain order. Most of your other skills on your skill bar as a warr are here to sustain this spike or your pressure most of the time.

Yes you have to be cautious about positionning and overextending and your frenzy, but sins can also be caught off guard.

As I am dumb, you'll have to explain the differences between a sin's spike and a warr spike, disregarding the fact sins are only good for spiking.

Sab

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

26 Nov 2007 at 15:46 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Because warriors spike can be Rush-Sun-Gash-Crip-Frenzy?
A warrior spike is as dumb as a sin spike. You have to press keys in a certain order. Most of your other skills on your skill bar as a warr are here to sustain this spike or your pressure most of the time.

Except most of these skills, like Frenzy, Bull's, D-Chop, Shock, Rend Touch, etc. are actually useful outside of a spike, and they require skill to use effectively. SP Assassins have Expose.

Quote: Originally Posted by glountz Yes you have to be cautious about positionning and overextending and your frenzy, but sins can also be caught off guard. Shadow Prison cuts out the positioning aspect of spiking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

As I am dumb, you'll have to explain the differences between a sin's spike and a warr spike, disregarding the fact sins are only good for spiking. You can mindlessly press 1234567 on an Assassin and score kills. Not so much on a Warrior.

Red_Dragon56

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

N/D

26 Nov 2007 at 16:11 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

.

[card]Sharpen Daggers[/card] While it applying bleed is good, why wouldn't you just put jagged strike in this slot? Letting Sharpen daggers be.
Many GW players suggest: Make it a skill
yum suggests: Make it inflict cripple whenever you attack a moving foe.
-Apply bleeding blah blah, if you critical strike you apply Deep wound for 10 seconds. I like it as an enchant though. Especially running a build that relies on having an enchant on you in order to do damage (such as unblockable, deep wound, etc.) It causes bleeding, it lasts for 30 seconds, and it's cheap making it extremely easy to set-up before you even have a foe in on your radar. It's a great enchantment if you are running an enchant spike of some type.

I just unlocked the factions upgrade kit though so I am a noob. I like using it as it is however.

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

26 Nov 2007 at 16:16 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

The Mod's should invent an auto-lock feature that locks a thread the instant "12345678" is posted.

Would save on breaking records. Why, because you cannot face the truth?

Also, I feel that all throwing dagger skill should be made attack skill, and therefore blockable, it's a logical fix, since your throwing a weapon at them.

Red_Dragon56

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

N/D

26 Nov 2007 at 16:28 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Why, because you cannot face the truth?

Also, I feel that all throwing dagger skill should be made attack skill, and therefore blockable, it's a logical fix, since your throwing a weapon at them. Well do that and they have to do Physical damage. No idea if these are supposed to be magic daggers or somthing considering they do earth damage.

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

26 Nov 2007 at 16:42 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Your track record says a lot about your knowledge of game balance.

why thank you, seeing all those quotes by me, i am quite impressed by my leetness Quote:

I could QED here. wat eez dis "QED" u speek of?
Quote: In any case, please explain how the Japanese guilds fail at running anything else other than sinsplit. they dont

Quote:

Also, irrelevant question...but do you simply like watching sinsplits simply due to them killing stuff faster? yeah, totally. balanced vs balanced = zzzz next... i usually watch if sins are involved or some sort of gimmick or spike.

Quote:

glountz: stuff dude has a point.

Quote:

The Mod's should invent an auto-lock feature that locks a thread the instant "12345678" is posted.

Would save on breaking records. that's brilliant! have a cookie

Kaida the Heartless

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

26 Nov 2007 at 16:54 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

[card]Deadly haste[/card]
Changed to Half-ranged and Touch Spells.
This would synergize with Shroud of Silence, and other touch skills which mean's the assassin needs to put less attribute points in Deadly arts for them to work.

Quote:

More options, the better, the whole point of fixing assassin utility was to increace viable option. Maybe I don't/can't use Ox for my knock down, or Temple for my daze, or BMT for cripple. In the same way that axe warriors can't use hammers for knock downs, so they use Bull strike and shock.

At any rate, I challenge you to come up with a better idea to fix shadow stepping/ replace with a more flexable option. Or are you one of them pathetic types that deny that they are an issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

[card]Shroud of silence[/card] Target foes spells are disabled for 6 seconds, all your spells are disabled for
10....4..3 seconds recharge 12 (inspired by someone whos name I forgot) You just made it so that a monk can be permashrouded.

You need to realize that skill balance is also about taking into consideration how well skills synergize with each other.

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

26 Nov 2007 at 20:23 - 50

I hereby resign to the idiocy of Cytherea and glountz. You can post whatever trash you want here, and I'm not going to bother responding, because it's not going to be worth my time to convince people who are mindlessly myopic and won't change their incorrect views.

With that said, sins are bad. And I'm done with arguing with idiots.

BTW, you guys are good at the game. You observe top level GvGs from top 50 teams. Grats.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure 2 months ago, I was running one of those "high level sins" that you were observing and admiring. So of anyone here, I'd say I have one of the best grasps of the brokenness of sinsplits (and that was before sineptitude came out).

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

26 Nov 2007 at 21:05 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

You just made it so that a monk can be permashrouded.

You need to realize that skill balance is also about taking into consideration how well skills synergize with each other. Nice catch kaida, and thus I will do another tweak!

Edit: changed Shroud.
Its recharge to 18. this still makes it a decent skill for shutting down a caster somewhat, and if you use Critical Strikes and Deadly arts, you can shutdown a monk for awhile (and adding with Deadly arts gives you tons of cover hexes =P)

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

27 Nov 2007 at 10:12 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

wat eez dis "QED" u speek of? Quad erat demonstrandum. Frequently used in mathematics, especially in proofs. Figuratively means "I rest my case".

In any case, you need to get your definition of game balance in your head.

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

27 Nov 2007 at 11:32 - 53

zomg, ominous latin phrases... astounding! O_o

in any case,

my fun >>>>> all of your perception of game balance

Quote:

I'm pretty sure 2 months ago, I was running one of those "high level sins" and now you're one of their detractors... didnt you have any fun? man, that's sad... you dont deserve to play the class, for you have not the heart of an assassin.

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

27 Nov 2007 at 11:55 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

zomg, ominous latin phrases... astounding! O_o

in any case,

my fun >>>>> all of your perception of game balance

and now you're one of their detractors... didnt you have any fun? man, that's sad... you dont deserve to play the class, for you have not the heart of an assassin. Shutup.
Playing the assassin is fun, but I don't like these new Nightfall builds.
They;re pissing me the crap off with Paradox and Tiger stance shit.
Before Nightfall I was having much more fun with my assassin.
You talk about heart of an assassin, you don't even act like a gamer, just a 6 year old who doesn't want daddy to take the pistol from him.

winterheart

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

A/

27 Nov 2007 at 12:23 - 55

i think beguiling gaze should be buffed, i run that in gvg and its great but bha, at the same energy is over double the daze time and rangers get expertise for e-management, so it sould either be less energy or longer daze imo

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

27 Nov 2007 at 12:28 - 56

Quote:
Originally Posted by X Cytherea X
they're over a year old. oh that's right you're slow
define "gamer". oh nevermind, it's you after all Nightfall is the newest campaign, Eotn is not a campaign.
Yes I say New Nightfall builds, if thats something for you to whine on,congrats.

Learn the word act, your acting like a kid who doesn't want his shotgun taken away, then someone who doesn't want children to play with shotguns.

Winterheart noted.

fireflyry

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

New Zealand

A/D

27 Nov 2007 at 12:46 - 57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuuda
Why, because you cannot face the truth? Not at all, it's because it's an idiotic statement that gets consistently regurgitated here in place of constructive comment.

Truth or not "OMG lol Sins 12345678 who cares!!" accomplishes nothing, especially when posted in every second thread.

This needs lockage, it's just stupid now.

Jaigoda

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

IGN Eat Scythes

27 Nov 2007 at 15:51 - 58

Quote:
Originally Posted by winterheart
i think beguiling gaze should be buffed, i run that in gvg and its great but bha, at the same energy is over double the daze time and rangers get expertise for e-management, so it sould either be less energy or longer daze imo Does BHA let you teleport to your foe and do a 400+ spike in less than 5 seconds? Beguiling Haze isn't just for the dazed condition.

glountz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/Mo

27 Nov 2007 at 17:11 - 59

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaigoda
Does BHA let you teleport to your foe and do a 400+ spike in less than 5 seconds? Beguiling Haze isn't just for the dazed condition. I don't agree, coz:
- BHaze don't hex, and many chains require hex
- BH don't snare, so people have just to flee, or you have to bring a snare in an already crowded bar
- BH have an insane recharge of 20 secs
- BH have a ridiculous daze duration of 8 secs, whereas you can with BHA apply daze continuously.

I propose the following change:
Beguiling Haze:
15 1/4 20
Shadow step to target foe. If target foe is hexed, you inflict daze for 1...10 secs. If target foe was moving, you inflict cripple for 1...10 secs.

Thus if you're able to gather the required conditions, BH becomes a very good alternative for SP.

MercenaryK

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

What A Mess

W/N

27 Nov 2007 at 18:27 - 60

Quote:
Originally Posted by glountz
I don't agree, coz:
- BHaze don't hex, and many chains require hex
- BH don't snare, so people have just to flee, or you have to bring a snare in an already crowded bar
- BH have an insane recharge of 20 secs
- BH have a ridiculous daze duration of 8 secs, whereas you can with BHA apply daze continuously.

I propose the following change:
Beguiling Haze:
15 1/4 20
Shadow step to target foe. If target foe is hexed, you inflict daze for 1...10 secs. If target foe was moving, you inflict cripple for 1...10 secs.

Thus if you're able to gather the required conditions, BH becomes a very good alternative for SP. So you have a snare + daze + shadow step all in one? That's one Hell of an elite. Honestly BH is fine. You shadow step, interupt, AND apply daze. Not too shabby since your combo after BH will interupt any spells cast by your foe, thus your opponent, most likely a caster/monk, can't save their selves.

Sounds like a mighty fine elite to me. 15e is worth the cost. Need a snare? There's a lead that will cripple if you're worried about them moving, and then an off-hand to capitalize on that cripple condition. Sounds like this would lead to a L-O-D-O-D combo.

BH does great work without needing conditions, why give it conditions which may or may not always present themselves?

DDL

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2007

27 Nov 2007 at 19:54 - 61

"Counts as a lead attack" would be nice, given that you're giving up an elite slot for something that doesn't even technically do damage. Sure, it's a lot less dodgeable than BHA, but the daze duration isn't very long.

Mirt

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2007

27 Nov 2007 at 20:24 - 62

""Counts as a lead attack"

Did you consider:

BHaze -> Golden Fang Strike -> Horns of the Ox -> Falling Spider -> Blades of Steel.

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

27 Nov 2007 at 21:02 - 63

Beguiling Haze's energy cost is to high for that combo Mirt.
Unless your willing to sacrifice, Runes/Survivor insignia's which most people arent.

Anyways guys stay on topic, this topic is about assassin utility.
The idea is that, Moriz thread deals with things like daggers.
This deals with the utility =P.

So post your utility suggestions, things you'd like to see happen with utility on an assassin.
Please and thank you.

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

28 Nov 2007 at 15:33 - 64

Some more lame ideas here.

Return - All adjacent foe a crippled for x - xx seconds, and you move 33% faster for x- xx seconds.

Death's Charge - You move 33% faster for x - xx seconds, when this stance ends you gain xx - xxx health. Reduce recharge to 15 - 20

Beguiling Haze - you move 33% faster for x - xx seconds, the next foe you hit is dazed for x - xx seconds. Change cost to 5, or 10 if 5 is over powered.

Shadow Prison - you move 33% faster for x - xx seconds, the next foe you hit is crippled for x - xx seconds. Change cost to 5 and recharge to 15 - 20.

Dark Prison - You move 15% faster for x - xx seconds, if you hit a moving foe, they are crippled for x - x seconds. Reduce cost to 5 and recharge to 20

Death's retreat - You move 40% faster for x - x seconds, when this stance ends you gain xx - xx health and an extra xx - xx health for every ally in the area (maxium of xx) ( or replace the extra health gain with a condition for every ally in area max of 1 - 3)

Scorpion Wire - You move 10% faster for x - x seconds, if the next foe you hit is moving, they are knocked down. (50% chance to fail if 4 or less in deadly arts) reduce recharge to 15 - 20.

Shadow Meld - While you maintain this enchantment you move 0 - 33% faster, but you will be unable to use stances. When this enchament ends, you lose all enchaments and 1 condition for each lost. Move to Shadow arts or critical strikes.

Aura of Displacement - While you maintain this enchantment you move 0 - 33% faster, but you are unable to use stances. If you are targeting an ally when this ends, you shadow step to his position and lose all enchantments and stance (range of half radar) reduce cost to 5. Move to Shadow or Critical.
(Rusbish I know, but I'm stumpped on how to change that)

Shadow Fang - for x - x seconds you move 25% faster, the next foe to hit will suffer deep wound for x - xx seconds if you critical them. reduce recharge to 15.

Shadow Walk - For x - xx seconds you move 40% faster, but you cannot use or be the target of allied spells or enchantments. Move to shadow arts. reduce recharge to 25.

Spirit Walk - For x - xx seconds you move 33% fasters and gain x - xx health for each second moving if there are allied spirits in the area.

Vipers Defence - All adjacent Foes are poisoned for x - xx seconds, and you move 33% faster for x - xx seconds.

Swap - If target Foe is moving faster than normal, they lose xx - xx health and you move 25% faster for x - xx seconds. Move to deadly arts. Increase recharge to 15.

Recall - If you are targeting an ally you move 40 - 50% faster, if target ally has less health than you when this stance ends, you lose 20 - 10 energy and skill are disabled for 10 - 7 seconds. Move to critical or shadow.

Note that all stance that have an effect upon hitting a foe will end when you hit them.

Yay for my crappy idea. Atleast it will remove broken stepping from the game, for the most part. >_>

Jaigoda

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

IGN Eat Scythes

28 Nov 2007 at 16:02 - 65

Shadow stepping is what give us our surprise. Remove that, and we're a paper-thin-armored warrior with lotsa speed buffs.

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

28 Nov 2007 at 16:06 - 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaigoda
Shadow stepping is what give us our surprise. Remove that, and we're a paper-thin-armored warrior with lotsa speed buffs. I don't want to explain why Shadow stepping is bad for the game. By changing it all to run stances, assassins can have great mobility, with some nice effects added on the end, and positioning can still be a good, important part of PvP as was before shadow stepping. You can't suprise any half decent players anymore because they will expect you to shadow step the second they see you and prepare for it, it's how pre protting works.

I know my idea needs loads of work, but overpowered running is closer to balance that overpowered shadow stepping at the least.

Jaigoda

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

IGN Eat Scythes

28 Nov 2007 at 16:14 - 67

If I really want a speed buff, I'll take Dash. Theres no point bringing another crappy speed buff for a tine effect. Want cripple? Grab BMT. Want Dazed? Grab Temple Strike. Want a KD? grab HotO. There's no point in these crap substitutes for shadow steps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuuda
Some more lame ideas here. QFT

MercenaryK

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

What A Mess

W/N

28 Nov 2007 at 16:22 - 68

The shadow step changes to IMS would give more open time to throw up prots and ease up the tension of suspecting an assassin's attack. While you'd now have to run to your opponent, yes even at 33% or 40%, it's a lot more noticeable. The target would literally need to be oblivious to your presence.

Current shadow stepping is nice enough as is. If you still desire changes, re-work spirit walk as that enforces an allied spirit; doesn't it normally require any spirit? Try not to make the skills have requirements an A/--- can't fulfill itself.

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

28 Nov 2007 at 16:22 - 69

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaigoda
If I really want a speed buff, I'll take Dash. Theres no point bringing another crappy speed buff for a tine effect. Want cripple? Grab BMT. Want Dazed? Grab Temple Strike. Want a KD? grab HotO. There's no point in these crap substitutes for shadow steps.

QFT

Nope, a half decent monk in RA could handle DD spamm. it's the rest of the combo that gives so much harm. No monk in your team, your gonna lose anyway.

Any monk that can't handle DD spam has improving to do.

The worst thing about the deadly haste change lies in Siphon Speed and Augury of Death.

Quote:

The shadow step changes to IMS would give more open time to throw up prots and ease up the tension of suspecting an assassin's attack. While you'd now have to run to your opponent, yes even at 33% or 40%, it's a lot more noticeable. The target would literally need to be oblivious to your presence. That's the plan, add positioning back into the game and make it take more skill and planning to get the kill. Warriors have to run up to foe, they do less damage in short times than sins do, they kill fine with skill.

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

28 Nov 2007 at 16:27 - 70

assault enchantments - add "target foe suffers 5...20 damage for each enchantment lost"

beguiling haze - 10e and increase daze duration to 3...15

deadly haste - add "and become full-ranged"

expunge enchantments - 5e 20r

lift enchantment - add 5...40 damage

mark of instability - 5e 15r

scorpion wire - hex spell. after 8...2 seconds, target foe is knocked down and you shadowstep to it. full range, 10e 1c 15r
make it useful ffs

shadow fang - reduce duration to 5 seconds. reduce recharge to 20.
this would be a pretty cool skill. reminiscent of anime where enemy dies after hero unleashes flurry of attacks and is already far away in a cool pose

shadow refuge - you gain health if you are NOT attacking
makes more sense

swap - can target foes and allies. increase recharge to 20 seconds.
i see awesome use for this. you and 2 warriors all stand together. you swap the enemy monk. warriors gank it.

unseen fury - stance. for 1...16 seconds, you are unblockable and attack 33% faster against blinded foes. 5e 20r
now that does the skill name more justice. blindbots would now blind non-melees just for this. team synergy ftw.

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

28 Nov 2007 at 16:56 - 71

I don't think it's reasonable for Swap to be able to target allies and enemies, it could be heavily abused.

Your buff to Unseen fury would create overpowered EDA assassins.

You idea for Shadow fang is pretty big nerf in my opinion, since it gives you less time to perform actions.

You buff to scorpion wire is more elite skill material. Altough I like it since I have a soft spot for that skill.

Deadly Haste, looks interesting.

Jaigoda

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

IGN Eat Scythes

28 Nov 2007 at 17:15 - 72

Seriously, Echo+DD+DH would be unstoppable. Full-ranged, 100 damage every 1.25 seconds on a squishy, repeatable 'till energy runs out. Team up with another one and you could easily spike down a monk in 3.75 seconds (each do DD 3 times for 600 damage). You people already hate DA 'sins, and yet you're supporting a huge buff to them?

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

28 Nov 2007 at 17:19 - 73

Dancing daggers is in the end, a weak skill.

- Diversion > Spamming
- High armor (shields with 10AL vs earth) > Dancing daggers
- Shielding hands/ SoA > Dancing daggers.

Deadly Art spikers are overpowered because of the two ranged and unconditional knock downs. Going A/Me would reduce you to one, Much weaker than A/Mo.

Jaigoda

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

IGN Eat Scythes

28 Nov 2007 at 17:30 - 74

Might be weak in high-end PvP, but it'd raise hell in the arenas. Yeah, it can be shut down, but so can every other build known right now. Diversion, armor, and SH/SoA will hurt every pressure (and spike to an extent) build, Though it's rare to see any of those in RA/TA.

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

28 Nov 2007 at 17:34 - 75

Quote:

You idea for Shadow fang is pretty big nerf in my opinion, since it gives you less time to perform actions. 5 secs is enough for a combo and you get the DW sooner.

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

28 Nov 2007 at 17:40 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

5 secs is enough for a combo and you get the DW sooner. And if they are no finished, you'll waste time walking up to them again. Shadow Fang just isn't good in it's current style.

Jaigoda

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

IGN Eat Scythes

28 Nov 2007 at 18:09 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

assault enchantments - add "target foe suffers 5...20 damage for each enchantment lost"

EA is fine as is. The only thing I might like is to make it cost only 5 energy. Could be overpowered, though.

Quote: Originally Posted by X Cytherea X beguiling haze - 10e and increase daze duration to 3...15

Again, this is fine as is. It's a skill for getting to a caster, shutting em down, and spiking them, it's not for perma-Daze. 10e would be nice, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X deadly haste - add "and become full-ranged"

See my above comments. Fine as is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X expunge enchantments - 5e 20r I'd say this could be a good buff, as I don't see how it could be abused.

Quote: Originally Posted by X Cytherea X lift enchantment - add 5...40 damage Nice idea, though might be abused by a horns-lock.

Quote: Originally Posted by X Cytherea X mark of instability - 5e 15r This needs to stay as-is. KD's are too strong to get a buff like that.

Quote: Originally Posted by X Cytherea X scorpion wire - spell. target foe is knocked down and you shadowstep to it. full range, 10e 1c 15r make it useful ffs
Again, you underestimate the power of KD's. And I agree with Shuuda, this is better than all other elite shadow-steps. maybe change the recharge to 30-45, and make it a hex with "after 5 seconds, you shadow-step to target foe, and target foe is knocked down. If this hex ends prematurely (hex removal), Scorpion Wire does nothing." Possible to shut the whole thing down, and if not, you know what's coming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

shadow fang - reduce duration to 5 seconds. reduce recharge to 20.
this would be a pretty cool skill. reminiscent of anime where enemy dies after hero unleashes flurry of attacks and is already far away in a cool pose Stupid Naruto... WAY overpowered skill, most spikes get off in ~4 seconds, you switch to wand, whack em once and they die. This one's hard to work with, as it's easy to make it extremely imba. It obviously has to have Deep Wound, since it's got the 'Fang' suffix (Golden Fang Strike, Twisting Fangs), but DW's too strong a condition to be easily handed out from a shadow-step. I might try to think of a solution, but I right now I'm outta ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

shadow refuge - you gain health if you are NOT attacking
makes more sense

Make more sense, yes, but it makes it an overpowered Restful Breeze (you can use skills).

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

swap - can target foes and allies. increase recharge to 20 seconds. 5e 20r
i see awesome use for this. you and 2 warriors all stand together. you swap the enemy monk. warriors gank it.

Again, way overpowered. look at your own description and see why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

unseen fury - stance. for 1...16 seconds, you are unblockable and attack 33% faster against blinded foes.
now that does the skill name more justice. blindbots would now blind non-melees just for this. team synergy ftw.

Overpowered to teh max. There's a reason 'Sins don't have PvP IAS's. Combine this with a blindbot, and you'd be unstoppable. Really, think about the effects it would have first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

wastrel's collapse - elite hex spell. for 5 seconds, it does nothing. when it ends, target foe is knocked down. this ends prematurely if target foe uses a skill. (kd after 5 seconds, or if removed, or if uses skill) 5e 1c 12r
change the worst elite in the game to a decent one. Balthazar's Pendulum's worse. But again, just too overpowered. An unconditional KD, with no downsides besides the elite status. Plus, it provides a hex for our Black skills, as well as a KD for our Falling offhands. Just sound a bit too imba to me.

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

28 Nov 2007 at 18:30 - 78

your version of scorpion wire seems decent.

oh snap, forgot unseen fury's recharge

edited post.

Jaigoda

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

IGN Eat Scythes

28 Nov 2007 at 21:19 - 79

Edited mine as well.

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

28 Nov 2007 at 21:56 - 80

Some of these ideas are silly.
The unseen fury one >.>....im sorry what!?
"I would just run
Signet of midnight, Signet of Malice unseen fury....SPIKE.

No offense to your scorpion wire, but having it 200m with a 3 second knockdown is better than turning it to a speed buff

Why? This skill actually makes shadow steps requiring positioning. Scorpion wire is fine, it can easily screw up your timing if the monk kites, because it requires you to move away in the time your dashing away the monk can remove it,
Scorpion wire...Is...fine as a shadow step....1 of the nicer ones.

Turning Shadow Meld into a Speed buff would make me cry....I'd cry alot....I like this skill...find it a bit underused =P

Dancing daggers can go to 3/4 or 1/4 cast time once Deadly Paradox dies...that would make it fine.

Lift enchantment dealing damage (or removing more enchantments in my idea) is not Imba with horns lock. look at the skill [card]Lift Enchantment[/card]

With Horns of the ox current damage, nerf this would be the way to balance it out.
However Lift enchantment still has a recharge >.> and you can only use Lift enchant or....Falling spider not both in the same knockdown.

Thing is...wtf is an unlinked skill doing in Deadly arts?

Echo DD+ DH...lolzors.

We can already do Echo DD with Deadly paradox >.>
And we can do that Echo DD thing even now.
Not worth it compare to SoJ.

And DD isn't the main damage hurt of the build.

Its entangling asp causing a knock down with poison, then SOJ knocking them down again WITH damage.
Then eating Signet of toxic shock....getting augury to trigger (causing DW)

DD is just a starter and finisher >.>. Not an inbetween,