Good Deeds :D - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Coifmeister

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

Manchester

Artemis Faction

W/E

25 Nov 2007 at 14:29 - 1

I remember someone telling me about a film. Can't remember the name but the point was that everyone who had a good deed done to them did a good deed for 3 other people. Eventualy this culture of good deedness spread over the world and made it a better place.

I was thinking if this happened in guild wars we'd have a lot fewer threads on here ranting about scammers, leachers, dupers, griefers etc.

So here's the score. Do something nice for someone, then inform them that they have to do someting nice to 3 other ppl to save the world and to pass on the message.

Nice things like...

Giving a first timer 50g to set up their storage.

Answering a question on local chat.

Offering help with missions.

Staying on at a mission even though you only needed the bonus.

Just a few axamples. Let the good deeds commence.

Taurucis

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

The edge of reason

I don't play any more.

W/E

25 Nov 2007 at 14:35 - 2

Well, this sounds like an excellent idea... though there's a huge flaw.

You're always going to have the elitist who looks down on everyone believing himself to be too "leet" to help out. He's just going to keep flaming and strutting about on his high horse. And unfortunately, a good portion of Guild Wars is made up of these. And when people meet one of these jerks, they want to match or even exceed him, and who knows they might become elitist jerks too...

Solas

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ireland

Currently LF Active HA Guild, Glad 2, Comm.3, R2

E/

25 Nov 2007 at 14:37 - 3

nice idea but it won't really work imo.

as chances are the the person you helped would be less enthusiastic about helping 3 people, etc.

but i do help people in towns with question as much as i can.

as long as people don't randdomly whisp others with this turning into a chain mail kinda thinng i dont mind^^

Redfeather1975

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Apartment#306

Rhedd Asylum

Me/

25 Nov 2007 at 14:37 - 4

oh, oh
It was Pay it Forward.
I wondered if that would really work though.
I mean humans are asshats by nature.
/me flies back to mars

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

25 Nov 2007 at 14:42 - 5

ITT: This probably wont work

DO EET.

pamelf

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Australia

Lost Templars [LoTe]

Me/Mo

25 Nov 2007 at 14:42 - 6

Movie's called Pay it Forward. Which, btw was a TERRIBLE film. Great concept, awful film.

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

25 Nov 2007 at 14:44 - 7

I'm an idealist. I still help random people in game with various things as I have the time, as I have done since day one, but even I can see clearly that I'm more likely to be given a Panda than I am to start a wildfire epidemic of good will in game by doing what I sometimes do. Since I've played in PUGs from the start, and sometimes still do, I've seen the deterioration of good will in game too. Enough of it to allow me to set aside my idealism hat in game and put on my internet hat when among strangers these days. Thumbs up to the OP for even posting that though.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

25 Nov 2007 at 14:51 - 8

IT might work in prophecies days when you would give out 14^50 weapon to newbie and he would thank you while nowadays your be told to gfy.

Good times of taking troll tusks from troll farm to collector and then giving then to newbies in ascalon id 1 ( * WTS max bows for 1k, giving for free if you are L8 or less. ) would never repeat.

angmar_nite

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

[SNOW] of [YUM]

E/

25 Nov 2007 at 14:53 - 9

I helped people a few times... Then I realized how unappreciative people were.

Let's see... spend half an hour with a rude dipshit... OR make a few k in that same period of time.

Caoimhe

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

25 Nov 2007 at 15:58 - 10

I'd rather be known for being generous with what little I do have than stingy with it. It doesn't take much, just like the OP suggested, and I'll admit that it's a refreshing change from the endless channel blather about who's a better PvPer, or what weapon's noob, or any other of the mind-numbingly large number of asinine conversations.

Cobalt

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

25 Nov 2007 at 16:15 - 11

I think there is a saying that goes something like this "All good deeds don't go unpunished"

I guess it means for all the good deeds you do you are still going to get grifers, elitests and a like back in your face.

At least GW elitests are not as bad as some of WoW's prima donna's.

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

25 Nov 2007 at 16:18 - 12

Quote:

I helped people a few times... Then I realized how unappreciative people were.

Let's see... spend half an hour with a rude dipshit... OR make a few k in that same period of time.

Hence, we make a reality check on how the proposed scenarios would unfold in reality:

Quote:

Giving a first timer 50g to set up their storage.

can i hav 10k moar plz plz plz.

Quote:

Answering a question on local chat.

- When is the mad king coming
- in 1 hour
- When is the mad king coming
- When is the mad king coming
- When is the mad king coming
- When is the mad king coming
- In 1 hour
- When is the mad king coming
- When is the mad king coming
- When is the mad king coming

Quote:

Offering help with missions.

See the bad PUG build thread.

Quote:

Staying on at a mission even though you only needed the bonus.

Prophecies missions are really something that is done with H/H or even just /H.

Smile Like Umean It

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

E/Rt

25 Nov 2007 at 16:24 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coifmeister

Nice things like...

Giving a first timer 50g to set up their storage.

Answering a question on local chat.

Offering help with missions.

Staying on at a mission even though you only needed the bonus.

Just a few axamples. Let the good deeds commence.

I've already done all of that and more, numerous times. You'd be surprised how ungrateful people are or think that you should just help them with everything from then on.

Angelic Upstart

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

South Coast UK

[SBS] [RETIRED]

W/E

25 Nov 2007 at 16:43 - 14

What cracks me up is when you advertise for a sub level 9 Mesmer to trade with you to get a free green , the number of level 20 warriors etc that turn up and claim to have a level 5 mesmer

foo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Scars Meadows [SMS]

N/

25 Nov 2007 at 16:48 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

I mean humans are asshats by nature.

Hey!
I'm not an asshat by nature!

I've learned how to be one the hard way!

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

25 Nov 2007 at 21:13 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coifmeister

Giving a first timer 50g to set up their storage.

I don't do that since I can't tell if someone's new to the game or just begging. I'll help them earn it though.

Quote:

Answering a question on local chat.

I do that all the time anyway.

Quote:

Offering help with missions.

I do that sometimes anyway.

Quote:

Staying on at a mission even though you only needed the bonus.

I never bail on a party for such a selfish reason, anyway.

My point is, why bother puttting an obligation on someone else (I'll answer your question IF you...)? Just be decent to others merely for the sake of being a decent person yourself and don't worry about the other guy/gal.

Another way to be nice to others is to congratulate people when they achieve a top level title. I do that when I'm in town selling stuff/working on my drunkard title. The message I send is "Congradulashuns! I raise an ale in yer honor! *hic*" Only ONCE did I not get a "TY" or "LOL TY" type of response from someone who was showing as on-line, and that was an Incorrigable Ale Hound! (oh the irony!)

Crom The Pale

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

Ageis Ascending

W/

25 Nov 2007 at 21:22 - 17

No good deed goes unpunished!

Invite person to join guild.
Person asks for a run.
I run them.
Person leaves guild.

lucifer_uk

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

Nottingham, England

The Venerable Truth [TvT] The Venerable Alliance [TvH] [TvL]

R/

25 Nov 2007 at 22:33 - 18

I think there are a lot of helpful people in GW but also as many ungrateful and unhelpful players.

Its human nature you get the same irl, cue the movie plot.

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

25 Nov 2007 at 22:48 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Well, this sounds like an excellent idea... though there's a huge flaw.

Well, first reply and we already have the typical (no offence) answer. There are "always" flaws, ALWAYS. It reminds me of this discussion on the /thanks proposed feature in the Sanitarium. It's not about the theoretical balance between the good and bad aspects of an idea, but rather about creation of opportunities than match the capabilities of a sufficiently big part of the GW community. In other words, give it a chance

.

The OP's idea is admirable, it would immediately transformed GW by the simple effect of significantly improving the experience of "kind" and generous users. But this is not tied to the game, it's all about player's behaviors and this is not something than we can force into players. People all have different reasons to play the game, with different time requirements and there're lots of jerks ready to do what it takes to annoy/scam people (for example suggesting that the OP's idea wouldn't work or that Anet is colluding with gold-selling companies ...)

In the end, we can only attempt to make people realise that this behavior will bring a lot to them, directly but mostly indirectly. But that's another story.

Good luck with your idea! (I'll try to remember to implement it

)

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

25 Nov 2007 at 22:57 - 20

Quote:

The OP's idea is admirable, it would immediately transformed GW by the simple effect of significantly improving the experience of "kind" and generous users.

No, it wouldn't.

Kindness appears out of need, and fear of consequence. Human species is predatorial in nature, and will do anything to win - compensating for its numerous weaknesses. Unlike most animals, where strength determines the hierarchy.

Humans utilize mind. That involves exploitation of others, and complete lack of consideration.

People don't get kind to each other because they feel like it. Only when there is more profit to be had in kindness.

Smile Like Umean It

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

E/Rt

25 Nov 2007 at 23:39 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Well, first reply and we already have the typical (no offence) answer. There are "always" flaws, ALWAYS. It reminds me of this discussion on the /thanks proposed feature in the Sanitarium. It's not about the theoretical balance between the good and bad aspects of an idea, but rather about creation of opportunities than match the capabilities of a sufficiently big part of the GW community. In other words, give it a chance

.

So, just because something is flawed by nature, we shouldn't point it out? Well, that's just stupid. How exactly do you think anything will be improved?

freaky naughty

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

Mo/N

26 Nov 2007 at 00:00 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

No, it wouldn't.

Kindness appears out of need, and fear of consequence. Human species is predatorial in nature, and will do anything to win - compensating for its numerous weaknesses. Unlike most animals, where strength determines the hierarchy.

Humans utilize mind. That involves exploitation of others, and complete lack of consideration.

People don't get kind to each other because they feel like it. Only when there is more profit to be had in kindness.

I hate it when people try to explain kindness, emotion, and society with their goddamn evolution theories. Who cares if the human species is predatory in nature? I haven't hunted for my food in quite awhile, and I never lash out at anyone for no reason. You don't need to study psychology to be nice to someone.

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

26 Nov 2007 at 00:21 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Kindness appears out of need, and fear of consequence. Human species is predatorial in nature, and will do anything to win - compensating for its numerous weaknesses. Unlike most animals, where strength determines the hierarchy.

Humans utilize mind. That involves exploitation of others, and complete lack of consideration.

People don't get kind to each other because they feel like it. Only when there is more profit to be had in kindness.

6 billions+ people on earth atm. Tens of thounsands of years of history. All summed up in this ridiculous message? Yeah sure, force is still a mean to arrive at one's aims, but the human mind (and not only brain) is capable of much greater things (I can already see people trying to prove that there's nothing "great" here). There is a side to this world that was, is and always will be independent from "gains" or "profits" (in the financial/numerical sense of course).

But if your theory is really right, the OP's idea is doomed and thus should have insignificant effects. Which is a test I'm sure it'll pass, should it be tested. Unless things that are not supposed to work in theory actually work in practice (Yhprum's law, the converse of Murphy's law).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smile Like Umean It

So, just because something is flawed by nature, we shouldn't point it out? Well, that's just stupid. How exactly do you think anything will be improved?

Things aren't improved solely by "pointing out", you have to try to make more constructive criticisms. A lot of good ideas end up in the bin because of people thinking "it won't work". And very often (you can see that obviously on GWG) arguments are "local" ones, it's like that because I see it like that and don't try to make me think otherwise (ideas are free, they're never really imposed, in a non-coercive environment ... though one could ask whether we are in one given the level of addition of certain people).

(honestly one cannot be totaly surprised by the reaction to the OP's message, we live in a world that tend to emphasize the "dark side", so to speak, and make us believe that the laws of nature are the only ones that make logical sense, see post quoted above; I guess that when people'll stop answering "positively" to posts in this thread it'll be seen as a sign that this is a bad idea, while it should only be seen as a good idea that never came to life)

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

26 Nov 2007 at 00:24 - 24

Quote:

There is a side to this world that was, is and always will be independent from "gains" or "profits" (in the financial/numerical sense of course).

Yes, they are maximization of profit. Either company, food on table, feeling warm, .... Human existence really isn't as complex as it seems. It's a very basic maximization of profit

Kindness exists if there's a benefit to be had from it. Nothing more.

In GW, there is absolutely no benefit to be gained from it.

freaky naughty

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

Mo/N

26 Nov 2007 at 00:52 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Yes, they are maximization of profit. Either company, food on table, feeling warm, .... Human existence really isn't as complex as it seems. It's a very basic maximization of profit

Kindness exists if there's a benefit to be had from it. Nothing more.

In GW, there is absolutely no benefit to be gained from it.

Well what about that warm fuzzy feeling inside when you make someone's day? I'm completely serious it feels pretty good you should try it.

Clarissa F

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

Fighters of the Shiverpeaks

Me/Mo

26 Nov 2007 at 00:56 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Things aren't improved solely by "pointing out", you have to try to make more constructive criticisms. A lot of good ideas end up in the bin because of people thinking "it won't work". And very often (you can see that obviously on GWG) arguments are "local" ones, it's like that because I see it like that and don't try to make me think otherwise (ideas are free, they're never really imposed, in a non-coercive environment ... though one could ask whether we are in one given the level of addition of certain people).

(honestly one cannot be totaly surprised by the reaction to the OP's message, we live in a world that tend to emphasize the "dark side", so to speak, and make us believe that the laws of nature are the only ones that make logical sense, see post quoted above; I guess that when people'll stop answering "positively" to posts in this thread it'll be seen as a sign that this is a bad idea, while it should only be seen as a good idea that never came to life)

A great message, yet it is brought to GWguru, the land of more flames than Southern California a month ago; that and a$$hats who use a simple explanation for something which much better minds still don't know the answer.

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

26 Nov 2007 at 01:01 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by freaky naughty

Well what about that warm fuzzy feeling inside when you make someone's day? I'm completely serious it feels pretty good you should try it.

Isn't that profit as well?

Most people just prefer more tangible rewards, since it reflects the times we live in, with emphasis on material wealth.

freaky naughty

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

Mo/N

26 Nov 2007 at 01:08 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Isn't that profit as well?

Most people just prefer more tangible rewards, since it reflects the times we live in, with emphasis on material wealth.

Hmmm I never thought of that fuzzy feeling as profit. Besides you don't sound like the kind of person who "feels" if you know what I mean. When you help someone you don't get anything but it makes you feel good. Why not just jack-off ( I couldn't get any better examples) that makes you feel good for a few seconds too. But the thing with giving a hand is it makes both people feel well.

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

26 Nov 2007 at 01:12 - 29

Not completely relevant but...

When someone asks for 50g to open storage, it's rarely a new player. It's usually just a storage character or just made character of an experienced player or they wouldn't be going straight to storage before getting the 50g themselves.

freaky naughty

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

Mo/N

26 Nov 2007 at 01:40 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

Not completely relevant but...

When someone asks for 50g to open storage, it's rarely a new player. It's usually just a storage character or just made character of an experienced player or they wouldn't be going straight to storage before getting the 50g themselves.

Well that doesn't make giving them 50g less nice, just a little more pointless.

chowmein69

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

26 Nov 2007 at 02:16 - 31

i gave a person50g for storage and then evryday he starts asking me for money..

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

26 Nov 2007 at 02:44 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

People don't get kind to each other because they feel like it. Only when there is more profit to be had in kindness.

Despite there being absolutely no profit to be had and no gains to be made in being kind or helpful in GW, I still am when inspired to do so when I feel like it. I join PUGs to monk in missions I dont need, rarely get any thanks etc. Help on the odd occasional quest for some random person. Its actually quite fun from time to time and you're free from the routine and necessity of finishing this task fast and efficiently as per usual. Can just play and occasionally remember why you started in the first place.

Very generally, your theory has some broad strokes over why I think I'd agree we'll never live in an ideal world. It just fails to accommodate individual whim.

Cargan

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2007

Scotland

[ESP]

W/

26 Nov 2007 at 03:12 - 33

I wish more people would be nice in GW. ok, so most of the time I just do things with my partner and heroes, but when we get bored our first choice of things to do is go help pugs.

example: Done a HM dungeon and wanted to do something more fun. We went to THK and joined a pug party (and laughed in whispers and some of the pug skillbars). We breeze through the mission and they all say thanks and boost our ego's a bit. Helping them through the next quest I ask the elementalist pug to show me his staff (had seen his skill bar and didn't expect much from the weapon). It turned out to be some non-max purple fire staff. Upon reaching RoF I opened trade and gave him a free Magmus' Staff (which I had gotten in the dungeon just before going to help pugs).

What did I gain from this? a bigger ego (just what I need!), a hour or 2 of amusement doing missions with real people, the satisfaction of knowing that I've made someones gaming experience a better one. It also sets a good example for newer players to follow.

Maybe one day that pug will do the same for another new player. I like to hope so.

pamelf

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Australia

Lost Templars [LoTe]

Me/Mo

26 Nov 2007 at 03:18 - 34

Well I've had relatively good experiences in GW. I'll always help new people, and explain things they don't know. I'll stop scammers and lend people 50g for storage. It's only 50g. It's not like I have anything intense to spend that money on, or really pressing issues in game that stop me from helping someone out. I've just found that if you help people you'll notice other people helping in game and it makes the whole game experience a little less anti-social.

Besides, especially in guilds, if you help them out, they are far more likely to help you out in return.

Hailey Anne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

A/E

26 Nov 2007 at 03:22 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coifmeister

Giving a first timer 50g to set up their storage.

I cant stand people who ask for money for storage.
In Proph you should have 50g before getting to post.
In Do the tutorial section and youll have 50g. Or do the first quest or 2.
In NF you should have atleast 100g before getting to storage.

So people who are asking for money for storage are either Lazy( which you shouldnt help them for being lazy)
Or just scamming free money(also dont need to help with this)

Sujoy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

In Livia's Cleavage (.)ME(.)

The Early Monk Heals The Worm [EMHW]

Mo/

26 Nov 2007 at 03:28 - 36

I loved the movie, though the guy dies in the end, so I won't give it a try

DreamRunner

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

W/

26 Nov 2007 at 03:56 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

No, it wouldn't.

Kindness appears out of need, and fear of consequence. Human species is predatorial in nature, and will do anything to win - compensating for its numerous weaknesses. Unlike most animals, where strength determines the hierarchy.

Humans utilize mind. That involves exploitation of others, and complete lack of consideration.

People don't get kind to each other because they feel like it. Only when there is more profit to be had in kindness.

No, people are kind to others because they want to feel good. However how is there any profit for loving your children? Simple there isn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freaky naughty

Hmmm I never thought of that fuzzy feeling as profit. Besides you don't sound like the kind of person who "feels" if you know what I mean. When you help someone you don't get anything but it makes you feel good.

You do kind things because you want something out of it. ie makes you feel good. That is what he is saying I think, although profit is a bad word to be used.

Does he sound aesthetic? I don't know and to judge that is a pretty long-shot not to mention it can insulting and rude.

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

26 Nov 2007 at 04:09 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

However how is there any profit for loving your children? Simple there isn't.

That's maternal/fraternal instinct, not kindness.

The profit lies in survival of the species. For humans, being good to children will produce strong offspring that can survive in the world. But humans are resilient, and can survive even without that (harsh reality).

For some animals, strongest child kills all of its siblings, since that means more food from parents. In that case, not being kind ensures highest survival chance. For yet others, strength lies in the masses. Turtles, for example. Hundreds per nest, one or two will survive. Parents aren't involved, it's luck of the draw.

In MMOs, things are really trivial. If you want kind community, make players strongly interdependent. GW sorely lacks any hint of that, and so the community has no need for kindness. Due to large community social spheres cannot form, since whomever you meet today, you'll almost certainly not meet again - even if you want to, the game will make it hard.

The reason most other games have shards limited to 2000-4000 concurrent players isn't solely technical. This size is ideal for forming social ties. Even if the world seems large, it's small enough to keep people together, since they'll invariable run into each other over and over. Something which doesn't happen in GW due to large number of alts and incredibly isolated world.

The only viable comparison is EvE, and there, corporations are everything. If you don't get involved in one, you stand no chance. And once you do join one, you'll be part of that social circle, and little more.

DreamRunner

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

W/

26 Nov 2007 at 04:24 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

That's maternal/fraternal instinct, not kindness.

The profit lies in survival of the species. For humans, being good to children will produce strong offspring that can survive in the world. But humans are resilient, and can survive even without that (harsh reality).

For some animals, strongest child kills all of its siblings, since that means more food from parents. In that case, not being kind ensures highest survival chance. For yet others, strength lies in the masses. Turtles, for example. Hundreds per nest, one or two will survive. Parents aren't involved, it's luck of the draw.

Instinct? Then how come a mother and a father who isn't the biological parent come into such closeness with children? A step-mum or dad can be a mother or father figure in a children's life.

But by can a father or mother figure hate their children? Yes but all types of kindness is done by instinct, right....

So if I am a parent to a child who is mentally retarded, then is the parent kind to the child because of strong offspring?

its quite clear that you have not dealt with children or parenting much at all. And I don't think many people like your pragmatic idealism.

Solveig Ikram

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

none

N/

26 Nov 2007 at 04:28 - 40

Regarding the OP: Great idea, but the random good deed should not be something trivial like 50g for storage, staying on in a mission, etc.

The things listed in the OP and then latched on by everyone here is trivial.
To really make an impression you have to make a life (read game) changing effort to help your fellow GW'ers.

Use your imagination and latch onto opportunities. There is lots of good to be done out there. Don't ask for a pat on the back when you've accomplished said deed but just walk away. If you helped 10 people in a meaningful way, and 1 of those people follows your example then you've already made a difference.