I bought Guildwars Factions for a friend of mine. I showed him the basics, and gave him a little bit of gear. He made a warrior, as it is one of the easiest prof to start with.
I told him he should upgrade his Armor every chance he got, monestary, seitung harbor & finally in Kaneing Center.
He now has been playing for 40 hours, is lvl 20 and has almost done all the quests he can find before doing Vizunah Square. (Told him better to have max armor for that one).
And here's the problem, he still hasn't got the money to buy it. With max armor using 200 Iron & 32 Steel Ignots the price get's pretty steep. And he merchs all the stuff he can find, and uses expert salvage kit's on for materials also already.
Now I don't know if lootscaling has anything to do with it, as he travels with 8 all the time. But I know first hand that if you kill a lot of creatures in a near instant moment, the scaling bumps in and u get almost nothing.
Now take this example. I go farm 1/8 and kill 12 creatures in an instant. I usually get 0-3 drops. Now if i'm 8/8 I will get (0-3)/8 drops. (Better example kill tons of groups of margonites in HM with Battle of Turai's Procession, in a instant with during pre-nerf splinter weapon, netting also 0-3 items).
Yes you might tell me your calculations are wrong because of lootscaling you still get the 0-3 drops because lootscaling recognizes party size. But experiences differ.
So my question is do you Experience the same in the quantity of drops, or is this just a figment of my Imagination?
Ps keep it clean, refrain from ranting. And please don't steer the pvp vs pve thing.
Observation of a new guildwars player towards earning money
mr_groovy
zwei2stein
I finished prophecies first time with mix of armor from Ventari, Amnooon and Droks /droks gloves btw/ as i was too poor to afford better stuff.
Given that prophecies was much longer and thus should have given you more gold, so, yes, drops are about same, if not better.
Given that prophecies was much longer and thus should have given you more gold, so, yes, drops are about same, if not better.
Coridan
I don't do bad in groups of 8 personally, although money from selling to merchants only is a hard way to make a buck. But it should be possible to achieve max armor pretty quick the biggest expense is from the steel. just tell him to buy from others rather than from the merchant. Be sure to ID everything...and be frugal don't spend his money....or if he can't save up enough at one time without spending it on something...have him buy it one piece at a time. chest, arms, legs, head, feet etc.
Keithark
Drops stink there are ample threads about how people cannot afford to buy armor, skills, etc in this game anymore and A-Net will not listen......remember that when GW2 comes out before you buy
mr_groovy
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Originally Posted by Coridan
I don't do bad in groups of 8 personally, although money from selling to merchants only is a hard way to make a buck.
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Fril Estelin
I remember that I got richer when I started exploring a little bit more the maps, rather than simply going straight from "starting point of quest" to "end point of quest". More fights=more loot. And ALWAYS identify the whites you sell to merch, overall it's rentable. To perform better, check that your friend to use max weapons, such as those from collectors (check GWiki).
There may be a gap between "normal play" and the "high end" you see around, but it's not that difficult to get enough money. Takes a bit of time, which is ok when you're patient (40h do not seem to be a lot for an MMO).
There may be a gap between "normal play" and the "high end" you see around, but it's not that difficult to get enough money. Takes a bit of time, which is ok when you're patient (40h do not seem to be a lot for an MMO).
Severlator
What about the collecters armors?
mr_groovy
I gave him a collectors req 9 30Hp -5(20) shield, and a req 9 Max damage 14^Ornate scimitar. So kit wise he's ok. Only during my own play time I can't remember being it that hard ( or taking that long) to get max armor.
Update Finally he has it, Tyrian Male. It doesn't look half that bad
Update Finally he has it, Tyrian Male. It doesn't look half that bad
makosi
Anet have gone a bit too far with preventing cash injections in to the economy and with gold sinks to the point that it's very expensive to buy 1k armour. Loot scaling was a poor workaround for bots (which has been extremely unsuccessful) which has adversely affected the casual player most.
Some Kaineng armour sets require Damask, Steel, Monstrous Claws and other expensive materials which are out of reach to the average Joe unless he gets extremely lucky. It's poorly thought-out.
Some Kaineng armour sets require Damask, Steel, Monstrous Claws and other expensive materials which are out of reach to the average Joe unless he gets extremely lucky. It's poorly thought-out.
$neekie
My personal experience, is that solo just gives most drops.
If i do quests, wich i do with a group of 7or 8, drops just suck bigtime, in the old days it filled all my bags to the point i had to leave stuff, now im happy if i got my main bag filled(with crap). Do have to say that value of drops are better(less white merch crap,more rare materials,colored weapons ect)
PUG s is even weirder, although a lot of people probabely dont agree, as far as i can see it the ones doing the most damage get the best drops. If there are good wammo s in a pug, i (im ele fire/earth) wont get peanuts(whites ,blues), if im the one doing big damage i get good/alot drops(golds/purple). I pug a lot.........
I can imagen that new players get frustarted, as it is much harder make money now. Nooby suggestion for your friend, just let him farm the (nooby)island(dragon lily s,yeti s,ect),not very challenging but he can do it alone and fast, and the drops are far more(although less valueble,money drops are between20/50 wich he can keep for his own), with some merchs along the way to offload crap without having to go to town. I did this with begginer chars for cash...
Imo,lootscalling is very bad for the new and the casual players(me,i h8 to farm over and over, for basic stuff,dont have the time)
mzzls
If i do quests, wich i do with a group of 7or 8, drops just suck bigtime, in the old days it filled all my bags to the point i had to leave stuff, now im happy if i got my main bag filled(with crap). Do have to say that value of drops are better(less white merch crap,more rare materials,colored weapons ect)
PUG s is even weirder, although a lot of people probabely dont agree, as far as i can see it the ones doing the most damage get the best drops. If there are good wammo s in a pug, i (im ele fire/earth) wont get peanuts(whites ,blues), if im the one doing big damage i get good/alot drops(golds/purple). I pug a lot.........
I can imagen that new players get frustarted, as it is much harder make money now. Nooby suggestion for your friend, just let him farm the (nooby)island(dragon lily s,yeti s,ect),not very challenging but he can do it alone and fast, and the drops are far more(although less valueble,money drops are between20/50 wich he can keep for his own), with some merchs along the way to offload crap without having to go to town. I did this with begginer chars for cash...
Imo,lootscalling is very bad for the new and the casual players(me,i h8 to farm over and over, for basic stuff,dont have the time)
mzzls
Crom The Pale
40 hours isnt really that long in the overall aspect of this game. Chances are he has spent money on things he should not have. He didnt need to expert salvage for example, using regular salvage kits on Highly Salvagable items will result in a good supply of crafting items. This will also increase monetary amounts for the crafting items you sell vs the item you salvaged.
He can get away with less than a full set of max armor for the next couple of missions, Chest and Legs would be the best to buy, picking up a helm with a +1 attribute if he can afford it. He should also remenber to salvage any runes/insignias from his old armor rather than buying new.
As for his drop rate its the same for everyone. I would recomend he does some exploring with a full party, vanquishing a few maps should net him enough to buy max armor.
He can get away with less than a full set of max armor for the next couple of missions, Chest and Legs would be the best to buy, picking up a helm with a +1 attribute if he can afford it. He should also remenber to salvage any runes/insignias from his old armor rather than buying new.
As for his drop rate its the same for everyone. I would recomend he does some exploring with a full party, vanquishing a few maps should net him enough to buy max armor.
mr_groovy
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Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
40 hours isnt really that long in the overall aspect of this game.
As for his drop rate its the same for everyone. I would recommend he does some exploring with a full party, vanquishing a few maps should net him enough to buy max armor. |
Logic there is none. Yes I made him buy a couple of skills, but only the essential ones. (Buying a new skill for him is now @ 350G, proves he din't buy to many of those )
Alexandra-Sweet
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Originally Posted by mr_groovy
I told him he should upgrade his Armor every chance he got, monestary, seitung harbor & finally in Kaneing Center.
He now has been playing for 40 hours, is lvl 20 and has almost done all the quests he can find before doing Vizunah Square. (Told him better to have max armor for that one). |
Doing all quests on Shing Jea will get you about 3K/4K, doing all quests in Kaineng will get you 5K or so + a lot of Imperial Commendations that can be used to get Superior Salvage kits, which you can sell to people for 1,5K each. Thats how I always get max armor for my new Canthan Characters.
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Originally Posted by mr_groovy
So my question is do you Experience the same in the quantity of drops, or is this just a figment of my Imagination?
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Nian
I haven't made new characters in a while but the last time I did I made a paragon. I was surprised to find how expensive just the 1k sets were to buy because of the materials costing more. It was close to the GW:EN release date so people probably stocked up mats. Anyway I also thought it was a helluva lot more expensive than it was ever before.
Imho just playing the game and doing quests and missions should earn you a decent amount of gold. When I made my first character I got them the collector's max armor rather than buying one so I wouldn't waste money. I also never buy armor from ShingJea unless going for a survivor. I usually just buy 1 set of armor midway(Seitung) and after that max armor and I do the same in all the campaigns, just one set in the middle before getting max. I also agree that you don't need expensive salvage kits at the start to identify crappy blues. Regulars should do just find in order to get mats.
Imho just playing the game and doing quests and missions should earn you a decent amount of gold. When I made my first character I got them the collector's max armor rather than buying one so I wouldn't waste money. I also never buy armor from ShingJea unless going for a survivor. I usually just buy 1 set of armor midway(Seitung) and after that max armor and I do the same in all the campaigns, just one set in the middle before getting max. I also agree that you don't need expensive salvage kits at the start to identify crappy blues. Regulars should do just find in order to get mats.
Mordakai
Factions is one of the easiest campaigns to get armor in.
I only bought armor at Seitung Harbor (and you can get collectors too, if you wish).
You don't need to spend any money on ID kits or salvage kits. You should have 5k before you leave the starter island.
Even if you don't, once you get to Kenieng City, you can use the collectors there to get Max armor until you save enough cash to get the armor and runes/incriptions you want. Yes, you will die alot (especially as a warrior) with crap armor, but considering you get gold for quests, it should not take you too long to get the 5k + materials for whatever armor you wish.
I only bought armor at Seitung Harbor (and you can get collectors too, if you wish).
You don't need to spend any money on ID kits or salvage kits. You should have 5k before you leave the starter island.
Even if you don't, once you get to Kenieng City, you can use the collectors there to get Max armor until you save enough cash to get the armor and runes/incriptions you want. Yes, you will die alot (especially as a warrior) with crap armor, but considering you get gold for quests, it should not take you too long to get the 5k + materials for whatever armor you wish.
creelie
Metal (iron and steel) armor is definitely the most expensive. Like Crom said, your friend should build up his armor piece by piece. A good order would be: chest, legs, head, hands, and finally feet.
mr_groovy
Just to point out the costs of the Monestary armor: 5*20=100gld + 8 cloth
Seitung Harbor: 5*200=1000gld + 48 cloth.
Those aren't that expensive. Though 5*1K, 200 Iron + 32 Steel will cost any newcomer dearly.
Seitung Harbor: 5*200=1000gld + 48 cloth.
Those aren't that expensive. Though 5*1K, 200 Iron + 32 Steel will cost any newcomer dearly.
Dev121
He shouldnt of upgraded armor on noob islands, waste of time to be honest. I totally see your point and this is why so many people farm and other ebay gold, the rewards for just playing the game the way you want arent great but its something youll have to live with. Tell him to suck it up and struggle for a few weeks and save then he should get on his feet with a few K behind him.
Savio
Shing Jea-style armor is cheaper since it only requires cloth and a handful of damask. You can also get cloth easily enough from Jade Brotherhood and Am Fah mobs.
Rathcail
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Originally Posted by Alexandra-Sweet
a lot of Imperial Commendations that can be used to get Superior Salvage kits, which you can sell to people for 1,5K each.
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VinnyRidira
Good grief, 40 hours to get to level 20 in factions. It is so easy to do in 8 hours with all the Kaineng quests also gathering enough money to get 80 armour for a warrior.
yakuza
its possible that his heroes get all the drops?
i've gone through complete areas without a drop
PS:Guild: Retired from Guild Wars
it should be "Guild: CoTR"
hehehe
i've gone through complete areas without a drop
PS:Guild: Retired from Guild Wars
it should be "Guild: CoTR"
hehehe
Cebe
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Originally Posted by Alexandra-Sweet
You don't have to buy armor inbetween the start in Shing Jea till you reach Kaineng, you can easily do Shing Jea with starters armor.
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Warriors get up close and personal with their foes, so when you get to Zen Daijun as a Starter who has never done it before, you'd probably find yourself dying quite a lot. At least someone who's played through a couple of times knows what to expect, and could probably get away with starter armor, but I'd still reckon a Warrior should upgrade at Seitung, same for Assassins, as they are frontline professions. Unless, of course, you're being taken through Jaya Bluffs, Haiju Lagoon and Zen Daijun by a crack team of lvl 20s.
There is, of course, collector's armor. I decided to use collector's armor on my Warrior so that I could save up and buy the armor I actually wanted from House Zu Heltzer. So I get to the Canthan Mainland and find out exactly what I need for the collectors armor. Wow. No less than TEN Venerable Mantid Pincers. They took quite some finding...mainly farming them on another character to get enough. When I got it though, the max level collector's armor was fine for me until I got to HzH. I think the items for some of the collectors armor should have been thought out a little more carefully.
Keithark
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Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
40 hours isnt really that long in the overall aspect of this game. Chances are he has spent money on things he should not have. He didnt need to expert salvage for example, using regular salvage kits on Highly Salvagable items will result in a good supply of crafting items. This will also increase monetary amounts for the crafting items you sell vs the item you salvaged.
He can get away with less than a full set of max armor for the next couple of missions, Chest and Legs would be the best to buy, picking up a helm with a +1 attribute if he can afford it. He should also remenber to salvage any runes/insignias from his old armor rather than buying new. As for his drop rate its the same for everyone. I would recomend he does some exploring with a full party, vanquishing a few maps should net him enough to buy max armor. |
I did 8 areas in elonia this weekend and pu everything that dropped, 1/2 was done with h/h the other with 1 person and their hero's I made 22k....pitiful, that is like 3.7k/hr or something
ale_jrb
Just because you don't get the title doesn't mean you can't do it - just kill everything. Sure, you're not properly vanquishing, but you'll make the money .
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Schroedinger
...having gotten GW only a few days ago. I've run two characters through to "Retaking the Wall", a R/w (Ohmigods what a terrible idea -Warrior offers that character -nothing-) and a N/Me (Much better). I have gone through virtually the entire game in a 2 person group with an E/Mo (Amusing. Emo. Also, the slash makes it "elmo".)
I have all kinds of cash. I upgraded my armor (so did my ally) at burned Ascalon City, and added a better scar pattern and a Superior Blood rune. And I have a plat and zillions of building materials in (our shared) storage. Heck, we even got a black dye drop, which is money we don't need at present.
I wouldn't want to be in a group of more than two though, it would make things easier but splits up the XP/gold rewards too many ways. I don't understand loot scaling, but I've gotten more stuff in the few things I've done alone than in the 2-person (majority) sections. Of course, going through (e.g.) "Across the Wall" alone would have been painful.
I have all kinds of cash. I upgraded my armor (so did my ally) at burned Ascalon City, and added a better scar pattern and a Superior Blood rune. And I have a plat and zillions of building materials in (our shared) storage. Heck, we even got a black dye drop, which is money we don't need at present.
I wouldn't want to be in a group of more than two though, it would make things easier but splits up the XP/gold rewards too many ways. I don't understand loot scaling, but I've gotten more stuff in the few things I've done alone than in the 2-person (majority) sections. Of course, going through (e.g.) "Across the Wall" alone would have been painful.
Sha Noran
It was probably a mistake to have him buy every set of armor that he found, since the returns are minuscule and the absolute best possible armor is right around the corner.
korcan
there are 35 monastery credits worth of quests available on shing jea. that equals out to 3.5k. im sure its not too difficult to come up with the remaining cash for max kc armor.
ValaOfTheFens
He needs collector armor. In Factions getting max collector armor is somewhat bothersome because you will inevitably need Venerable Mantid Pincers and the Mantids in question are only in 3-4 mobs outside Nahpui Quarter. I couldn't find a way to farming it(I was only setup for 55 farming at the time and some have Gaze of Contempt) solo so I did it with just 3 heroes(henchs would have been fine). This only yielded 1-2 Venerable Mantid Pincers per run but it was cheaper than buying them(I once saw someone selling them for 500g each). As a Warrior your friend should have minimal trouble soloing the Mantids and getting alot more Pincers than I did. 
In general, I advise your friend to just play the game. I used to think that loot scaling was a joke but I have to say that I was completely wrong. The only thing I get less of is crafting materials.
Schroedinger: When you get to Diessa Lowlands you'll want a full group. Trust me on that one. PM me in-game if you need any help!!
In general, I advise your friend to just play the game. I used to think that loot scaling was a joke but I have to say that I was completely wrong. The only thing I get less of is crafting materials.
Schroedinger: When you get to Diessa Lowlands you'll want a full group. Trust me on that one. PM me in-game if you need any help!!
Tachyon
The simple solution would be for ANet to abolish the "Your group shares 103 gold" when you're playing on your own with heroes and henchies. That way all the actual gold dropped goes into your own coffers and doesn't just disappear from the game into some imaginary purse of said heroes or henchies.
Keithark
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Originally Posted by Azagoth
The simple solution would be for ANet to abolish the "Your group shares 103 gold" when you're playing on your own with heroes and henchies. That way all the actual gold dropped goes into your own coffers and doesn't just disappear from the game into some imaginary purse of said heroes or henchies.
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MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by mr_groovy
Now I don't know if lootscaling has anything to do with it, as he travels with 8 all the time. But I know first hand that if you kill a lot of creatures in a near instant moment, the scaling bumps in and u get almost nothing.
Now take this example. I go farm 1/8 and kill 12 creatures in an instant. I usually get 0-3 drops. Now if i'm 8/8 I will get (0-3)/8 drops. (Better example kill tons of groups of margonites in HM with Battle of Turai's Procession, in a instant with during pre-nerf splinter weapon, netting also 0-3 items). Yes you might tell me your calculations are wrong because of lootscaling you still get the 0-3 drops because lootscaling recognizes party size. But experiences differ. |
I see about 10-15 monsters drop NOTHING on an entire run, which for me consists of all undead in both The Cursed Lands and Nebo Terrace. Granted, this is Hard Mode, but when I get white weapons and armor drops, that is not something HM increases. In fact, HM won't even add blue or purple, just gold items.
I really wish the people who state "killing things fast reduces drops" would provide evidence to support that claim.
pumpkin pie
In my experience there are ups and downs. but over all it has been down with ups and downs... a bit confusing there... but thats how it is now a days. some day you go out, BOOM 6 gold drops, another BLEH things that you don't even want to pick up cos its too far away. 
speaking about sharing gold, I just notice today, while picking up 90 gold in a group of 8 with heros/hench, I have 210 gold in my stash, and after I pick up the 90 gold I get another 10, and the stash becomes 220g, so I want to know where the extra 10 gold pieces gone? if this has been going on ever since the beginning, then I must have like 100k lost out there somewhere... maybe more.
*looks @ koss*
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Originally Posted by Azagoth
The simple solution would be for ANet to abolish the "Your group shares 103 gold" when you're playing on your own with heroes and henchies. That way all the actual gold dropped goes into your own coffers and doesn't just disappear from the game into some imaginary purse of said heroes or henchies.
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*looks @ koss*
Red_Dragon56
I beat Proph with Ascalon Armor on my Necromancer. Cause I never had the cash to buy anything better.
Bwah?!
Bwah?!
ValaOfTheFens
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Originally Posted by Red_Dragon56
I beat Proph with Ascalon Armor on my Necromancer. Cause I never had the cash to buy anything better.
Bwah?! |
arcady
All of my max stat armor and gear on all of my toons but one was bought -after- loot scaling. On that one I had only chest and waist at max stat beforehand.
I came back to this game about one and a half months ago. I have 13 characters. All of them have maxed out gear for themselves -and- their heroes. All of them have heroes.
I don't see a problem.
Getting gear on the first ever character is the hardest. Once you do it once you can do it again and again with ease.
I would have told the new player to not buy any armor upgrades until they got to the last upgrade before max stat - the one in Seitung Harbor. Only buy that one if they lack the funds to get the better gear in Kaineng. That's what I did with my Wa/R - my first armor upgrade was in Seitung Harbor. My next upgrade was in Droks.
The runner that took me to droks kept dying, and so on less than max-stat armor and no elites I did half of the run for us.
That saves a little money. Not too much, but a little. On later toons, I buy them max stat armor as soon as I can run them to it, then take them back and play through.
But that's only because it is so easy to make money in this game now.
I came back to this game about one and a half months ago. I have 13 characters. All of them have maxed out gear for themselves -and- their heroes. All of them have heroes.
I don't see a problem.
Getting gear on the first ever character is the hardest. Once you do it once you can do it again and again with ease.
I would have told the new player to not buy any armor upgrades until they got to the last upgrade before max stat - the one in Seitung Harbor. Only buy that one if they lack the funds to get the better gear in Kaineng. That's what I did with my Wa/R - my first armor upgrade was in Seitung Harbor. My next upgrade was in Droks.
The runner that took me to droks kept dying, and so on less than max-stat armor and no elites I did half of the run for us.That saves a little money. Not too much, but a little. On later toons, I buy them max stat armor as soon as I can run them to it, then take them back and play through.
But that's only because it is so easy to make money in this game now.
pkodyssey
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Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
speaking about sharing gold, I just notice today, while picking up 90 gold in a group of 8 with heros/hench, I have 210 gold in my stash, and after I pick up the 90 gold I get another 10, and the stash becomes 220g, so I want to know where the extra 10 gold pieces gone? if this has been going on ever since the beginning, then I must have like 100k lost out there somewhere... maybe more.
*looks @ koss* |
I have noticed that as well, other times I noticed that the gold rounded up in my favor. I think it evens out over time.
Ctb
First of all, you misrepresented the loot system. A party of 8 will net you the same drops for white, blue, purple, and collectible/salvage items as a party of 1. The loot scales UP as the party size increases. The only thing you have a reduced chance of picking up versus solo is rare items (gold, green, lockpicks, tomes, etc.), and those items have NEVER been a primary source of cash from farming (and, of course, you split the gold).
Second of all, taking forty hours, merching everything off, salvaging, and earning quest/mission rewards hasn't made enough yet for max armor? I call shenanigans. While it is certainly harder on a first character, if you don't have the money to buy all the materials at that point, you're doing it wrong.
Yes, earning money in Guild Wars is hard if you play the game as it was intended (versus what most people here do: shut off your brain and farm for hours on end in lieu of interacting with humanity). However, money in Guild Wars is also not worth much. The only things that are hard to get most of the time - especially once you have one well-established character - are things you don't need: grindtitle armor, rare weapon skins, all black armor, etc.
Although, I'll give this to you: that first superior vigor rune is a serious pain...
Sorry, but if it really is that much of a problem, something's being done wrong. I generally leave noob island with 3-4k on my Factions characters. After that, it's just a matter of running a few more quests and getting some kills in the meantime to get the mats and last bit of money.
Second of all, taking forty hours, merching everything off, salvaging, and earning quest/mission rewards hasn't made enough yet for max armor? I call shenanigans. While it is certainly harder on a first character, if you don't have the money to buy all the materials at that point, you're doing it wrong.
Yes, earning money in Guild Wars is hard if you play the game as it was intended (versus what most people here do: shut off your brain and farm for hours on end in lieu of interacting with humanity). However, money in Guild Wars is also not worth much. The only things that are hard to get most of the time - especially once you have one well-established character - are things you don't need: grindtitle armor, rare weapon skins, all black armor, etc.
Although, I'll give this to you: that first superior vigor rune is a serious pain...
Sorry, but if it really is that much of a problem, something's being done wrong. I generally leave noob island with 3-4k on my Factions characters. After that, it's just a matter of running a few more quests and getting some kills in the meantime to get the mats and last bit of money.
Quaker
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Originally Posted by mr_groovy
He now has been playing for 40 hours, is lvl 20 and has almost done all the quests he can find before doing Vizunah Square. [/I]
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mr_groovy
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Originally Posted by VinnyRidira
Good grief, 40 hours to get to level 20 in factions. It is so easy to do in 8 hours with all the Kaineng quests also gathering enough money to get 80 armour for a warrior.
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And yes I know u can be lvl 20 @ 8 hours or less. All my canthan chars left the island @ lvl 18+. And he has been questing all the time, and still din't have the money till the 42 hours mark or so.
@Quaker 40 Hours is pretty ok to be honest. It took me a month or more to get my tyrian char to droks / desert.
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Originally Posted by magmared
I really wish the people who state "killing things fast reduces drops" would provide evidence to support that claim.
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@yakuza
for shame